Board of Education · Special Meeting · May 13, 2024

Roll call starting with chair Umstead good evening everyone this is Bettina Umstead I vote I miss that Miss caraon I M Rogers I fire hi and I vote I as well the agenda passes and now we will move to our superintendent search discussion and we have Monica Rosen online with us good evening Monica good evening thanks so much for your time today I will go ahead and share my screen if I'm able to looks like I need someone to oh okay just give me one.

Moment thank you I'm joined this evening by my colleague Naja Thompson who was with me on the site last week so he made chime in from time to time if if needed thank you NAA for being here so we have a few important things that we want to cover this evening we want to provide an update on the status of the search and the community engagement that has taken place so far where we are with recruitment for the role and then discuss the screening timeline and Key activities including engagement of that's engagement of incoming board members not internal candidates engagement of incoming board members the screening steps and the finalist stage sorry that's a typo on my part there we always want to start by coming together and reviewing our shared purpose and I was wondering if a board member in the room or if the board chair would be willing to read this for us.

I'll read it thank you our goal is to welcome recruit select Empower and support the next right fit superintendent of Durham Public Schools our purpose is to authentically engage and lead a search process that is transparent Guided by our community including those not typically present in the room designed to acknowledge and mitigate implicit bias is every step of the way and that ultimately yields a diverse candidate pool thank you for that so as we're discussing making decisions about the process we're always wanting to come back to our shared purpose it's the best way to guide our work we also try to stay grounded in the shared agreements that we've all discussed as a group this notion of staying engaged experiencing discomfort speaking your truth expecting and accepting non non-closure and alongside of that as a board you all have discussed keeping our students and Educators at the center of everything that we do approaching one another with curiosity seeking to understand where other people are coming from relaxing and being a Learner in this.

Process so want to lift that up for us as well so in terms of update on the status of the search there are a few things that we want to share we had our community engagement came to its peak last week we were on site for three full days we've carried out over the course of this process 43 meetings those include focus groups one-on ones and Community Gatherings met with 24 different Community organizations and really feel that we have heard significant and diverse perspectives we're not ready to share those points of view this evening our plan is to be able to share our full report at the March 28th meeting but we're so grateful for the time that people spent with us last week sharing their lived experiences sharing their perspectives on the future of the district at the same time Alma is carrying out its Recruitment and has begun first round interviews of of our candidates so I'll be sharing a little bit more of that our hope is that.

The board will be able to stay within its timeline of completing its decision by the end of June in order to do that we expect the board to begin interviewing it begin its own first round of interview of candidates hopefully by the week of May 20th the goal is to reach a finalist stage by the week of June 17th so that the board can make their final decision before the end of June we continue to put this July June July time frame here because this is a very tight this is a tight time frame not meaning that it's rushed but it does mean that if the board has scheduling issues or has any sort of logistical challenge they may find themselves needing to push a week or two into the future so we had three primary activities for Community engagement we had three Community Gatherings last week and we also carried out our interviews and focus groups we also have a staff and student community service that were all that all went out.

Now the board did decide to extend the survey deadline through Wednesday of this week so we're very grateful for the communications Department in the district led by Sheena who is who have been working to let people know that deadline has been extended we are hoping for an increase in community parent caregiver participation over the next several days student engagement has been very strong at this point in time so we're really excited and pleased to see a very high participation rate on on behalf of the students in informing this work just as a reminder in our conversations last week we talked to candidate we talked to community community members about what they love most about their experience in Durham Public Schools the things that they want the superintendent to Champion and protect we also ask them what they want to be true about Durham Public Schools in the coming years we asked we asked groups to picture their ideal environment for their child and then we talked about the skills and experiences most important for their.

Superintendent to bring to the role we also asked groups for questions they would want asked to ask potential candidates and then we also asked if there was anything we hadn't discussed that was important for them to share with us and for us to know so we did want to share a number of community organizations who met with us happy to just take a minute and read these names for you book Harvest boys and girls club downtown Durham Durham advocates for exceptional children Durham Association of Educators Durham children's initiative Durham committee on the Affairs of black people Durham congregations in action Durham Council of ptas Durham partnership for children Durham Public Schools Foundation El Central isano Emily K Center friends of Durham Isla People's Alliance rainbow Collective for change sandoes student U we are West End Community Foundation and World relief Durham there were others who also though they didn't meet with us they did share information with their constituents to encourage people to come out to our meeting so we really.

Want to thank all of these organizations and others who have been interacting with us communicating with us over email along the way so this data here is sharing some of those numbers we carried out Outreach to 43 organizations 24 organizations did respond with interest to participate and or commit to share information with their networks and 22 scheduled and met with our team as of last week and just want to share if for if there are Community organizations out there whose names weren't read who are interested in participating we encourage you as as we have in the past to reach out to the Board of Education's email we will gladly take the opportunity our doors are still open we want to hear your perspectives so please reach out and the board will connect you with us so that we can arrange a time to meet most likely virtually I want to share a little bit about our recruitment status we have had a strong response so as of May 8th.

You have 73 applications in for this role of those 58% are identifying as male 42% are identifying as female those are those who participated in an optional EEOC survey 72% of our applicants are identifying as black 5% are identifying as laat 18% identifying as white and 2% are identifying as multi-racial we have 11 applicants that are either current or recent superintendents and at least 15 so far with school district experience in North Carolina to date Elma has invited 30 at least to first round interviews we've completed 19 We are continuing to do the work of discussing and screening candidates so our application window has not closed and we're we're continuing the work of talking to people who are considering applying and engaging them in that process if there're any any pro prospective candidates who have not applied yet listening this evening as we have shared in the application we encourage you to get your applications in sooner rather than later because the board is is moving forward and.

We would want in order to have full consideration of your application would really want to have your application into US within the next couple of days certainly by the end of this week would be our recommendation all right so would like to take a pause there before we talk about the screening timeline and would love to hear from you all any thoughts that you have both about Community engagement and our recruitment for the. Role Monica it's Nat just one point of clarification I think you've presented such such excellent data in a short amount of time I did hear you say March 28th or something for the time you would share the the community feedback and I think you meant the May 23rd meeting I just wanted to sorry sorry it's May it's May it's our it's not your May 23rd it's the next meeting that's scheduled with Alma okay the 20 then which is May 28th okay may not March but the I got that date wrong and you got the Okay cool so.

That that we'll look forward to that thank you just board members other comments or. Questions I did have one question Sher travos by Sher travos yes Monica thank you so much for this information it's exciting to see how much engagement has happened already as well as how many folks are interested in the role it's great I think it's great because Durham is a wonderful place to be I'm wondering and I don't know if you can shared this piece how many of the current or like were all the current or recent superintendant invited to participate in the first round of interviews I'm really looking for a robust experience level coming to those yeah so Alma's screening process is really looking for requisite experience so the vast majority of any of our sitting superintendant would have been invited to an inperson interview with us so I don't have all like the exact data but I know that yes I do believe most if not all of anyone who's had superintendent experience would have.

Been invited to a first round interview with Alma thank. You Miss Carda-Auten Aon thanks so much Monica this is exciting to see that we' have so much interest in this position and I'm thrilled to get the community engagement update soon I was wondering I saw that we decided to extend the survey and just curious to know what our response is I know we got an update some somewhat recently but if you have a informal current update on survey responses I do so first of all your students have participated extremely well we have 838 survey responses from your students to date so and with many of those coming in just in the last few days in total we have 1384 responses total that includes though your student numbers so we would like to see the numbers of the broader Community to go up in the coming days and that's why we decided to go ahead and extend the survey we have 548 survey responses to date from the broader Community which is a little.

Lower than we would like to see right thank you so much yeah M thank you Monica just follow up on Jessica's question and when it comes to staff there's there's a request that I got from staff if it could be sent out again in terms of Staff being able to give some feedback just wondering where we're at with the staff particularly teasing that out from Community feedback and seeing if we can give some time for staff to weigh in as well on the survey Alexandra or in on the survey yes sorry board member by is you're good thank you on the survey yes so the survey will be extended for everyone and we are hoping that staff Community caregivers will all participate and that's something that we are working with your Communications Department to be able to to get that word out I know that's something that they're planning to do as well wonderful thank you so much Monica thank you Monica I had one question about the demographic data which I'm always.

Interested in I was just wondering how if you knew roughly how many did disclose their gender and race or ethnicity or was it the mo was it most of them most of the applicants if you have an idea I don't I don't have the data on the I'm sorry are you asking on the applicants yeah or on the survey respondents applicants yes so on the applicants so we have 67 applicants who completed that survey and so the numbers that I have there represent those individuals at this time and so yeah that answers my question thank you okay thanks for all this data this is this is exciting and I'm happy to see the range of organizations that did participate in the conversations last week on that same data Monica I was a little I'm I'm glad we have strong diversity in that pool but I'm a little un underwhelmed with the 5% Latin a I don't know how that compares to other searches you've done and whether we can do additional Outreach in with.

Candidates in that yeah the alma team is continuing to recruit every step of the way so we're definitely keeping an eye out an eye on that and that's definitely something that we're paying attention to as well again these are the individuals who filled out that survey so it doesn't represent everybody and it's not necessarily representative of who ends up making it to the next stage either but it's definitely something we'll be looking at as we go through so I appreciate that call out all right board members any more comments questions all right Monica oh Monica were you no okay all right I pass it back to you then Monica for the next part thank you okay so there are a few things that we wanted to share this evening we're going to be discussing the screening timeline and Key activities the engagement of incoming board members screening steps and the finalist stage itself so first wanted to discuss engagement of incoming board members I've had the opportunity to speak with both of your incoming.

Board members who have expressed support for engaging in this process and seeking alignment there are several benefits of engaging incoming board members in the process the first is is really ensuring having the benefit of the insight and input from your incoming board members to understand where there's alignment in terms of the things that they're thinking about and prioritizing for the next superintendent and the things that the sitting board is has prioritized there engagement will also support a smooth transition if for any reason the search continues into the month of July and our goal as always is to ensure support for your final selection in an ideal world you would have both both the sitting board and incoming board members all in alignment behind your your selected superintendent our recommended approach is for Alma to meet one onone with each of those incoming board members to gather their perspectives we were actually able to do that in person when we were in Durham last week our recommendation is to invite the incoming board members to join.

Board to join the board for their interviews we believe there's a lot of support among board members to have them engage in your third and fourth round of your process which I'll be describing in just a moment and my understanding is that incoming board members are allowed to provide their perspective and feedback on candidates and so working with your Council to create the best method for incoming board members to provide their feedback on candidates that's something that seems to be desired by all sitting board members and incoming board members as well so I want to to pause there and have the board have the opportunity to discuss engagement of incoming board members see if there are any questions that you have about what that would look like and and then confirm you know our our steps moving forward in terms of engaging incoming board members.

Oh that's or chairm said if you have any thoughts okay Miss L we'll start with Miss Lewis hey Monica how are you good how are you Miss Le good I'm good in your recommendations I just want to make sure that we are clear and transparent with the public that they will also sign a confidentiality I know that we know this already after having gotten legal device but that they will sign a confidentiality to be able to attend those meetings yes U that would be our expectation for sure okay it just wasn't in the recommendation I we make sure it's on the record and then the other thing I remember the board attorney saying about their their ability to give perspective and feedback for candidates is threading treading a thin line U making sure they're not acting as a the role of a board member before they've been sworn in in but you had already said in your presentation just now that you have gotten feedback or you've already worked with our attorneys.

I just want to confirm that you worked with our attorneys and they have a way forward for that to happen well I think I saw Mr Malone here and I have been in some conversations but frankly not in all so I'm not sure what the latest guidance is my understanding was that incoming board members were able to provide feedback but we're not able to engage in discussion with the sitting board but Mr Malone you might be able to confirm that you're exactly right that is that's definitely the advice that we've given the board is that the incoming board members can obviously with the the signed confidentiality agreements but yes they can sit in on interviews and they can provide their insights into the various candidates interviewed with the board either through a written document or a presentation to the board in close session but you know they're not allowed to deliberate and participate in the board actual discussion over who they might hire because that would be.

U acting more as a board member and that they're not allowed to do until they're sworn in so that yeah but we think there's a a wide range of ways for them to participate and share their information with the board thank you for that that answers my questions I am happy to move forward thanks thank you Miss. Lewis chair Umstead any comments otherwise can continue okay great so just want to confirm we have consensus to move forward with this approach with incoming board members Vice chair yeah we will do a a little motion for consensus but I just want to check are we this is something we're not we're not voting on we're just doing kind of consensus and then moving forward our perspective is you don't need to vote on this item voting could be helpful if you just want to confirm where everybody stands on a particular issue we typically don't vote on this particular issue but it's up to you as a board Vice chair or I.

Don't know if Mr Malone would recommend that you do a vote just to confirm this decision so it's really up to you all okay thank you Miss Chavez can I ask who's taking responsibility for ensuring the confidentiality waivers are signed Agreements are signed is that something Alma's going to take care care of or is that something the attorneys are going to do on our behalf I can speak to a little bit of that if you want me to sure so we do recommend that the board vote to authoriz the incoming board members to participate in the process we have four Ed to the board samples of the documents that were used previously for the incoming board members to sign and we if the board votes in that manner we can certainly update those documents for use here and I think that the you know one document gets signed by the applicants which we would presume that Alma would take of getting those signed the ones to be signed by the incoming board.

Members you know we can obviously work with the board Clerk or or the board chair to get those signed by the incoming board members but Monica I'm assuming you would not have a problem if we got you documents having the applicants execute those I would need more information about what you're asking applicants to sign well I'll forward you the documents that were used previously after this meeting okay I I couldn't offer perspective on that I've never had candidates to sign I so I'm not sure what what it is you're asking them to sign so I would just need to know and then I can I can advise the board on what it might mean for their applicant pool if if we would anticipate any concern on the part of of candidates so I I would just need to see what exactly you have in mind there in terms of confidentiality of boards incoming board members that's something we're very used to Alma has provided that in the past I think it makes all the sense.

In the world that darington Smith would provide that facilitate that we would just need to make sure that it's done in in keeping with the board's timeline so that they can participate in Theo in the appropriate interviews yeah thank you so I offer a motion for darington Smith to execute confidentiality agreements with the incoming board members so that they may participate in our superintendent search process second the motion has been made by Miss Rogers and seconded by Miss Beyer is there any other.

Discussion all right we'll do a Voice vote chair Umstead this is batina Umstead I vote I miss vtis I miss CA aten i Lewis I M Rogers I miss berer I I it passes unanimously all okay Monica I pass it back to you for the next portion thank you so the next thing that we want to talk about is the screening steps and that will be followed by a discussion on the finalist stage and so what I wanted to share was the proposed stages of the screening process along Ong with the timelines that that we think will work with the board's desire to complete the search by the end of June Alma right now is in the midst of our resumé screening and virtual interviews as I mentioned earlier Alma continues recruiting and screening candidates throughout the entire search process so our application window stays open we will continue looking for strong applicants throughout the search however our Peak window for interviews began last week and will continue at least through May.

24th however we're also working very speedily to be able to present candidates to the board the week of May 20th we're proposing that you interview anywhere from nine I know the slide says 12 applicants I'm going to say it can be as many as 15 applicants this is a process that Alma has done many different times many different context in organizations and in every single one of our superintendent searches and the challenge is always time and it's it's enabling the full board to part participate and so our proposal is that the board should split into teams of two to three and each team would be able to complete three to four interviews those interviews would be identical meaning board members are posing the same questions and those interviews would be recorded for the board so that board members can review any interviews that they did not part participate in the board would have the opportunity to debrief and discuss and decide who would move forward to the third round.

The third round of the process is led by the board we would have all board members meet all candidates we would propose two different performance-based interviews one that is focusing in on two to three competencies and another one that's focusing in on a different two to three competencies it allows the board to go deeper dive into specific areas of the job profile so for example you might have one interview that's very deep on finance and operations and you might have another one that's very deep on instructional leadership student achievement and Community engagement Coalition building as an example so we would have the board meet with approximately five to seven applicants over the course of two half days and then and then from there the board would be able to determine its finalist we are assuming two to three applicants would make it to the finalist round we need to discuss what the finalist round looks like but I wanted to pause there first to see if there are any questions about this style of.

Process and about the four rounds that we are. Proposing board members Miss buyer Monica can you be explicit about which are virtual and which are inperson interviews just to for the public because I know we've talked about this in different conversations but I wanted to be clear and let me ask ask Miss Valladares are you asking which ones the in the candidates are virtual for or in person or both candidates and board members I guess candidates when yes is the is the finalist round the only one that is an in-person event and all others are virtual so that that's a clarifying question so our design is presuming that rounds one two and three are done virtually and that the finalist round we would recommend is done in person we have asked board members for their availability for virtual interviews so we have that availability so you know my most recent understanding when we moved forward with asking board members for their schedules was that round two at minimum could be be done virtually by.

The board both and all rounds 1 2 and three right now we presume are done virtually by the. Candidates for that I think we may need to just share updated information from Mr Malone about the the noticing of the second round interviews and the ability of the board to be virtual or not Mr Malone could you share the a legal perspective on the our participation in those interviews please so your policy so to the extent that the candidate is virtual but the board members are present in person at the central office or wherever you're going to meet you can you can conduct you can have the candidate participate virtually but the board according to its policy is unable to actually hold a purely virtual meeting so like this meeting you're in person but you've got members who are participating or or the chair for instance is participating virtually so you can you can have an in-person meeting in which you would go in close session and then the candidate can participate virtually but you're not.

Able to have a wholly virtual meeting in which the board members are not actually in the central office wherever you might be convening the meeting does that make sense thank you yes it does and given given that we right now well Monica Monica has our availability for virtual meetings and they by policy need to be done in person I I want to ask you about the the possibility of of voting the two-thirds of the board being able to vote on allowing for virtual meetings or virtual participation is that an option in this case or yes yes yes the board Can Vote the wave its policy in accordance with the the portion in your policy that allows you to wave your policy so you could vote to wave the virtual the restriction on a virtual meeting portion of the policy to cover interviews that may need to take place during the superintendent search you could do that okay thank you I wonder if we want to consider that.

And in that case then the we would be in Open Session briefly in order to go into closed but in a virtual setting entirely virtual setting is that correct Mr Malone yes if you were to wave the policy then like during Co you would be able to meet entirely virtually and then you would go into open and open session like this and then go into close session and just have board members and the applicant participate okay thank you Beyond this moment we may want to look at this policy and see if we want to update it but board members thoughts Miss berer well I was just wondering to to also clarify if Alma is going to be helping facilitate and set up these virtual meetings so that our staff is not involved and not aware of candidate names candidate information is that possible Monica that's already happening and has already been committed to so yes Alma is coordinating all of the planning of interviews for every stage of the process up until the finalist.

Stage and so Mr Malone there's no need to open any session of these in in Open Session and then close them I mean there's no re reason we need to stream the open portion yeah you would stream the Open Session portion of the meeting or have it available for people to log into and view the Open Session and then when you adjourn and close session yes but the Open Session would not include the candidate is that correct no it would not no it would just be a a simple.

Motion to go in the closed session for confidential Personnel matters you'd vote on that motion you go in the closed and then you would introduce the candidates or candidate it will require coordination between Our IT staff and Alma's folks to stream if we chose to stream because we don't have to stream he just told us we had well if it's if it's virtual only you do have to provide the public a way to view the Open Session portion of the meeting it's if you're meeting in person then streaming is optional because the public can show up at the central office and and view the meeting in person but if you're only virtual then you do have to provide the public a way to see the Open Session portions of the meeting right which leads me to my followup question which was if the board chose not to do it virtually only came and met in person then we wouldn't necessarily have to stream that we just have to have space to be.

In and then that is correct corre a candidate virtually that is correct and one of the other things that we'll have to work through if the board chooses this option is you know you're going to end up with less than a quorum in these smaller groups so we're to to make it a public meeting given that you will be doing the board's business in these small groups we're going to have to probably designate those groups as actually committees and notice those individual committee meetings kind of ad hoc Personnel interview committee committees a separate kind of M like three separate board meetings and we can we can coordinate that with Nicole and Monica once we figure out exactly what the plan is in the time but that's just something else to keep in mind I'm not making an opinion about what we should do one way or the other I'm just asking so that we have all the options because I don't have an opinion yet is leis.

All right I'm trying to keep up with the different rounds of interviews so the questions you were asking Emily have to do with round three when we're down to five or seven round two so round two is when we're in groups groups of two or three and Mr Malone is saying we'll publicly notice them is that the one he was talking about going in the open session then closed yes well all of your meetings will start in Open Session I mean you you don't have any meeting that doesn't start and end an open session so whatever round whenever you guys get together as a board you will open the meeting an open session be it virtual or in person and then you'll get a motion to go in the close session for confidential Personnel reasons and then you'll conduct the business of a superintendent search en Clos session at that point Mi Mr Malone can you please explain why these meetings are considered the board doing the board's business because the.

Board is not making any decisions in these interviews so can you just explain why they're considered meetings and why they're considered the board doing board business that's that's what the term I heard you use earlier the board will be interviewing candidat to fill its superintendency that is the work of the board of education but they're not making any decisions in those small groups so they're carrying out the interviews but they're not determining who moves forward in those small groups so I'm a little confused about why that would be considered a committee so those interviews are all recorded and the full board will meet and they're not going to make any decisions about any candidates until they meet as a full board so each of these smaller teams are not making any policy decisions or making any recommendations about candidates they're meeting as a full board and sharing your perspectives as a large group when when that is.

Scheduled Monica it's they're doing the business of the board when they are interviewing those candidates so I'm not really sure how else to explain it other than that is the business of the board when they're interviewing candidates to fill their superintendency Miss Carter auton has a question I was just wondering Mr Malone could you clarify the implications of these needing to be committees so I mean we maybe are getting so the the answer is you you can do this exactly like you want to do it you would have the small groups meet you would post those meetings you would convene in Open Session and then you would go into this the small groups within going to Clos session and you would interview confidentially in Clos session and then when you're done interviewing you would exit close session so I I don't see that this process prevents you from confidentially convening and interviewing these candidates you just need to host it like a a board meeting or committee meeting prior to doing.

That and if we didn't break it into small groups and need to have call them committees then we would still need to notice the meeting correct and we would still need to go into close session correct doesn't feel like there's much of a difference well right correct I mean it's you are you're meeting to do the business of the board and those meetings interviewing of candidates for the superintendency is certainly the business of the board and those are all interviewing candidates in the history of your work interviewing candidates for superintendent positions have always been noticed meetings that are closed and considered to be doing the business of the board so yes yes I mean the the board will some boards do not necessarily meet in the central office when they interview candidates they may interview cand in a in a hotel in a in within the county or in an adjacent County but they would you know convene the meeting get a motion to go into close session and then while in Clos session.

They confidentially interview the candidates during the day and then they adjourn the meeting at end at the end of the. Day okay any other. Questions just to clarify we just need to decide if we are wanting to do these virtually or in person is that the main yes wave the policy to do them virtually or just do them in person yes that is the primary decision Point here I think a further conversation and something that has been brought up here is what does it mean to be a committee and all of that so I think as an offshoot the board can discuss that more but that is the main question at this moment but I I mean I don't want so this I mean the chair has the ability to appoint committees so once you know when you're going to interview I mean I think that the process of the chair placing you in whichever committees you were planning to otherwise interview in those groups is a simple task you notice it.

Like you do your student appeal hearings and then you go in the Clos session and you know be virtual or in person and it's you know the the public is not able to know who you're interviewing or or you know any of that so it's it's the same basic process we're just complying with the open meetings law so miss miss sper asked a question earlier so Alma would not be able to handle live streaming and all of the technical aspects that the district normally manages around noticing a meeting opening the meeting live streaming the meeting T you know so I just want to make sure that that was clear miss sper that that's you know what I was responding to earlier was not that aspect of the meeting but rather all of the logistics in coordination of scheduling the interviews and arranging which candidates are being interviewed for during those windows and making sure they know where to go and where to be definitely Monica and I I saw that you've s started sending invitations.

I was just trying to note that we'll need to coordinate with our it folks to make sure that we stream the portion at the beginning and the end that we need to stream yeah thank you thank you okay Miss Rogers I appreciate this conversation and clarification I know that being a board member comes with us having to do lots of homework to prepare for what we're going to do and say and how we're going to act in this space and so I'd like to kind of put on record a frustration that we've known for quite some time that we wanted to do small group interviews that were recorded and are just now being presented with the fact that this is this would be a committee of the board and that we would have to go through these different processes to make that happen if I had to choose it all over again I probably would have taken a couple of days off and spent my days doing superintendent search as opposed to offering availability.

Scattered in the ways that we have and I think Alma could have tried to accommodate some of that request as well if they had known that we would have to notice it in this way and try to get a bunch of candidates back to back to back so that we wouldn't have to do this multiple times so I'm frustrated that we are not giving ourselves as individuals and not giving Alma the ability to make the best choices for us and putting people to extra work in order to get this process carried out yeah I I don't know if it it makes sense to be virtual because of the work that it's putting on DPS staff to do that to accommodate our schedules and I'm not I'm open to whatever the board wants to decide but I'm I'm just frustrated in this moment about why we're just now finding out that this is a.

Midi thank you for sharing those sentiments Miss. Lewis so you might I had clarifying questions about round one y'all are doing round two we're doing in small groups we talked about that two weeks ago when we met with Alma on small groups and the third round I just want to be clear that is with all of us with the 5 to7 in the third round is that accurate all board members okay so it's all board members participating but we would be recommending two different interview activities so you would be interviewing at the same time but you might be into two different interview teams at that time with each team going having a deep dive into specific areas of the competencies so you might have one team focused on finance and operations as an example and you might have another team focused on student achievement instruction Community engagement as an example and so then each of those teams would have a deep dive in those areas those interviews would also be.

Recorded So that one is then separated it's not all seven of us in round three it would take place at the same time most likely but you would be in two different teams at the same time okay and we're not considering doing those virtual are we ourselves are us seven we haven't discussed that well I assume we'd all be find a date together I the main was about round two being virtual okay yes that was my clarifying question and than thanks thanks.

Board members any other thoughts or a motion for the interviews way we can do them we can meet in person or we can propose a virtual option well I do think it's important to say that part of the reason for virtual is for saving money on travel expenses and saving and respect in the time of candidates as well that that use of technology I think is appropriate in a lot of situations it's not just for convenience do we need to wave policy today or is that something that we will consider we would I believe we would need to do it today because we do not have another board meeting before May 23rd have the right policy number pulled up so so we can can you point me to the policy on waving policy I believe I believe it's.

2450 also just to clarify we're just talking about round two and just whether we are virtual or not either way the candidate will be virtual the candidates will be virtual for round two and if we have 9 to 15 applicants or explain the small groups of two to three we're talking about three interviews or just to try to give us a sense for what how many we were thinking about doing either in person or.

Virtual motion. In what's the meeting policy number that we do need to wave because I think it would be good to wave it if needed policy 245 no that's the one about right 232 waving policy it's what. 2302 remote participation correct. It's 2320 there's a 2320 I believe that says that the board cannot have fully remote wholly remote meetings is 20 is it in two places it's in 232 it might be in two places okay so 2302 section B two says meetings not during during a declared emergency and it says the board will not hold a wholly remote meetings in the absence of a state or locally declared emergency so you need to wave that if it I did if it also appears in 2320 let me look at that.

One while you're doing that Mr Malone I just want to name that one concern I have with not doing these virtually is the we gave our availability for virtual meetings and I I don't know what it will look like if we have to be in person and what that will mean for the schedule of interviews and I don't want to see this this whole process pushed out so long and I'm not sure what the what we gain from from being in person where the candidate is not when the effect is then that we sort of delay the process and you know look at going into July I know that some of us will travel here and there in the next few weeks and so I do have a concern about about that well n none of this I mean so if you wave the policy then you can have the holy virtual meeting and and then it's just providing the notice so it's I mean again nothing prevents your schedule nothing prevents.

You from proceeding as you've been discussing you just will have to notice those meetings and we'll just have to figure out a way for the public to have access to the Open Session portion of the zoom or however these meetings are set up and I mean there there may be some easier ways to do that that we can think through thank you I I appreciate that and I also just want to know I know it is labor that our it Department wasn't necessarily planning on it it all these interviews I do believe are during workday hours is that true Monica I can check to see okay if that that's true I think some of those do go into the evening hours based on different board members availability so there were some board members that were available after 4M so we do have some interviews I'm fairly certain that are going to end up being in the 4: to 7 p.m. windows okay and 2: to 5:00 pm okay thank you so.

I would move that we wave policy 2302 remote participation in board meetings all sections that apply to wholly remote meeting in order to conduct interviews of superintendent candidates second it's been moved by Miss buer seconded by Miss Rogers is there any other. Discussion all right we'll do a Voice vote chair Umstead patina Umstead I vote i m v I vote I miss Cardon I miss Lewis I M Rogers I miss Byer I and I vote I it passes unanimously so we will hold our our the that motion was for interviews by the board and so that includes round two and I just want to clarify that could mean round three I think the motion was broad enough to cover any interviews during this this superintendent search okay all right thank you all thank you Monica and we'll pass it back to you thank you so the other thing that we wanted to confirm is that the board is good with the four rounds of screening process as we discussed as as I.

Presented so that's another decision point we wanted to confirm this evening right board conversation questions or a motion. Or a thumbs up I think the Miss Carda-Auten I the proposed stages of screening as outlined on slide 14 look good to me.

Thank you any other thoughts all right do we I don't know if we need to if we can just do thumbs up on on this one okay Miss Rogers you have a comment I'm seeing some thumbs. Up I'm comfortable with it okay great I is there a reason not to vote on it if we voted on I don't think there's a reason not to vote on it like to make a. Motion yes i' like to make a motion that we follow the proposed stages of screening the four rounds outlined in slide 14 or meeting packet this evening.

Second okay it's been moved by Miss Carter auton seconded by Miss Rogers any other discussion a point of clarification is does this include a vote on participation of community members Beyond board members no it does not that's our next conversation oh well might confirming so I was thinking that that that was bundled okay thank you we're confirming how many stages of screening first and then we need to discuss what the finalist round looks like as our last topic of the evening thank you so also my point of clarification we've already agreed that Mr Tab and Miss harell are coming in at which Round Here round three by the board June 3rd through 7th yes round three and the finalist round is what has been discussed at this point in time okay thank.

You all right if there is no other discussion then we'll do a Voice vote chair Umstead this is Bettina Umstead I vote I miss that is I miss caon I miss Lewis I M Rogers I miss berer I and I vote I it passes unanimously so we have our established our four stages of screening I'm sorry yeah of screening Monica I'll pass it back to you okay thank you everyone so the final decision before the board related to the process is around around Community engagement or not at the finalist stage so I just want to lay out for you the kind of two positions here and provide Alma's recommendation and then open it up to the board for group discussion so very it's very common around the country for boards to choose to have a screening process that is closed all the way through the selection of the final sole finalist so typically what that looks like is the board completes all their rounds of screening they come to the determination.

Of who their final selected superintendent will be and they announce that individual at the end of their process another path that many boards take is to announce their top two to three finalists and to offer some opportunity for the community to know who those candidates are now there are varing degrees I've been watching some of the recent searches going on around the country just recently saw a district in Florida that announced their semi-finalists and then announced their finalists but the community did not interview their candidates at any time we've also seen districts that will have Town forums where they introduce the finalists and have sort of an open kind of town hall Town Hall kind of a setting for community members to ask questions of the community so when boards are weighing the decision of whether to have a closed process versus an open finalist stage process a lot of times they're weighing the importance of confidentiality to your candidates you know the majority of your applicants are gainfully employed somewhere and.

Having their name announced as a finalist for a process brings with it potential political risk to them and so there are candidates out there that will say I really can't participate in a process if I'm one of two to three that's named I really can only participate if if we've got some Assurance of confidentiality all the way to the end and if if I'm selected and so there's there's often a position the board has to take as to how big of a risk it is to them to lose candidates at that because they they can't be one of two or three that are announced as a finalist now Alma is very experienced at leading processes that engage community at the finalist stage and so I want to talk a little bit about what our experience has been you know what we find is that communities really appreciate having the opportunity to meet your finalists what we find is that the vast majority of candidates are Will Follow the.

Board's desire and if the board wants to have a process where finalists are able to meet with with community members the majority of of our finalists and the majority of our candidates are willing to participate in a in a process like that so it's very common for an alma search but it's also very common around the country to have a process where your finalists are introduced and given the opportunity to interact with your community we have been asking our candidates in the first round of the process also those candidate also those individuals who are considering applying who have connected with all we've been engaging individuals interest on this the vast majority of your applicants have stated that they're okay with being announced as one of three finalists what I want to share is that it's really important to Alma to protect the confidentiality of your candidate all the way to that point and the reason is there are the you know when you're putting your name out there as one of three.

Candidates it's very different than when you're putting your then your name getting out there is one of 12 or 15 or more candidates now there's some states where you can't control that so we work with the candidates to understand that that's the case and work with them around around those decisions you know our point of view is that there's a lot of benefit to having Community engagement at the finalist stage you are able to see how your candidates interact with members of the community and you're able to get the insights and input from your community as to how they what they saw when they met with your finalist candidates it also really honors the commitment that the board has stated in terms of wanting to have a process that's Guided by the input of the community I think there's a way in which you do that when it's just the board making the dec decision so it doesn't mean that if you decide to keep this closed that that.

You're not guided in any way by the input of the community but there is less information that you have about your candidates when it's only the board interacting we have a process that's very well-managed where we enable members of the community to nominate themselves or others to participate on a panel we ensure that those panels well represent the student community and we meet with your panels twice we carry out antibi training We Carry Out facilitated work around choosing the questions to ensure that they align with your job profile and what the competencies required for the role and then those panels carry out their own interviews and they let you know what they thought so there's a fair amount of trust in the process that needs to occur but we have universally been well received by communities when we've carried out processes like this so we wanted to give you all the opportunity to discuss the pros and cons of each option we know there is a concern about candidates dropping out it's.

Not without Merit we've met with in the first 13 or 14 candidates we interviewed two of them did have concerns about a process where they might be named as one of two or three finalists but all other applicants have been comfortable with this approach at our stage in the process and based on what Alma's seeing in terms of the caliber of your applicant pool we do not think that if you have a process that engages community at the final stage we do not think you will end up without strong candidates and because I'm I'm sharing that a couple candidates have been uncomfortable I'm also sharing that a couple of candidates have said they would welcome that opportunity and would want to have that opportunity so you're really seeing both both sides and then you're seeing some applicants who say you know it's easier for me in my place of work if I'm not announced until I get the job but I understand this is kind of the way a lot of.

Superintendent searches go and so you know comfortable with moving forward with whatever Direction the board wants so wanted to lay that out as best as I could this evening for you Elma does have a point of view on this we do have a recommendation it is a trademark of an alma search it doesn't mean you have to follow this approach so obviously we honor and respect whatever decision the board makes but needed the board to come to a decision around this issue so I'm happy to answer any questions you have about this about how this works and then you know open it up to you all to be able to discuss what you would like to.

Do thank you Monica for that explanation of the process board members questions.

Comments okay I'll go Rogers it sounds like there no comments not many discussion not much discussion but we can have it after a motion I guess one of the reasons that I really liked Alma was the ability to have a finalist round that engages the community on some level so I'd like to see us move forward with that and trust that process so I offer a motion that the finalist round include Community engagement activities. With Alma handling that portion of that engagement. Process second moved by Miss Rogers seconded by myself miss travez any other discussion Monica can you take a minute to talk about the second option that you had that you described in some of our small groups that hasn't been brought into this space and into this discussion I would appreciate that which second option when we met in small groups there were three options on a slide one and and I think in conversations that some of us have had this has felt very polarizing to our board Bo.

And it that makes me sad because you everyone here has such sh strong shared values and so there was a a option that was in the middle that had us bring community members in similar to the way that we're bringing in our incoming board members had them sign confidentiality agreements and it was still able to preserve the confidentiality of every applicant and not risk losing any applicant over this process so can you walk us through that option because it wasn't described today sure so that option would be limited Community engagement and that's an option where we would establish a small group of community members who could participate I think the board would have to determine who would play that role in the process and I didn't present it this evening because in our discussions in small groups most people didn't think that was a viable option because it would be difficult to limit or try to determine who gets to be a part of that process but that is another option.

The way that it looks is that the board would come to some determination on on a limited group of individuals who could participate in an interview with candidates we've seen that happen in one or two small groups and we have in fact asked those individuals to sign confidentiality statements and meet with meet with candidates and offer their perspective to the board. And a follow up on that Monica with that process I what I've assumed I don't think I've directly asked this can students participate I would assume not because I I don't think we would ask students to sign that kind of confidential confidentiality agreement but I just want to clarify it's really up to the board and what's appropriate within the district around how you engage students in a process like this and and what that would look like okay thank.

You I. Have okay I have comments chair Umstead has some comments before we move on the motion so I just wanted to say until I met with with Alma about this I was I understood that a closed process would be the way to go to ensure that we didn't that we maintained confidentiality of who those candidates were all through the the entire process and I also had an initial concern about about Community divisiveness around candidates and I think that after hearing more about the process and how structured it is that is the well both processes option two that you just described but the one I'm most interested in the full open process I think that I think that that would be the way I'd like to see us go I think it's in line with our desire to be transparent and that's something that we have committed to as a board and a district particularly since since the salary crisis of the last few months and I I think that although I understand that.

There maybe a few candidates that we would that would not stay with through the end I am very encouraged that we have so many candidates and I do think what I just keep thinking is that the right candidate would really enjoy be energized by the process and I real I realize that it could be a sacrifice for them revealing their identity to the community at that stage I ideally I do think and I expect that we will have two extremely strong candidates or three at the finalist stage and that I expect that we will be choosing between very strong candidates and it may be a hard Choice and so I would expect that and and be optimistic that the those other candidates who we did not choose would still have a positive overall experience in that finalist stage and so those are some of the considerations I have I I really want to engage our community in new and different ways from now going forward I think that's really critical and.

Something that we've heard a lot I think that some of the ways that we have to engage with Community or hear from Community at this point in time aren't sufficient overall and so I see this as a way for us to to build more Community engagement overall as a board so I'm excited about the process I'm not sure which way our decision will go but I would look forward to to engaging with this chair.

Umstead yes hi everyone thank you Monica for this information about the process I had a couple of questions that would help me in my decision making I wanted to know how many we had 11 current or recent superintendent and let me phrase this before I jump into my questions I want us to have a really diverse pool of applicants so I'm looking to see current superintendant or recent superintendant I'm looking to see folks who maybe have not been in the superintendent role yet but might be at a chief or a a deputy superintendent level in larger districts I would like to see people that have North Carolina experience as well as from people all around the country like that diversity of experience and maybe even someone who isn't a traditional like principal the superintendent role I'm looking for that breath and I think my concern is that if we make a decision that might leave out even to applicants that we may not get the breath of of of the candidates and.

Applicants that we're looking for and that's just my question so I wanted to know you know out of the candidates that we have so far you said we have 11 who are sitting superintendents or current or recent 15 with experience in North Carolina are any of those people part of the folks who said they weren't feeling comfortable with the decision to be a potential open finalist search so we've had two individuals who expressed discomfort with that kind of a process both of them I believe are sitting superintendents we're halfway through our interviews so we don't have all of the data however you know what I've shared is that the majority of your applicants and throughout our process very consistently we've been looking for this because we understood that it was a concern of yours we have been asking all potential so this is people who haven't applied yet as well as people who have applied and up until now we do have three indiv uals who've expressed discomfort to.

Who have applied and one who has not yet applied at the end of the day it's our charge to bring you a strong applicant pool as you described and we're seeing a very strong applicant pool as you've described so I think it's you know it's it's up to you if you feel that losing those two wouldn't would be too big of a risk to to open up your process for Community input at the finalist stage but at this point in time you know our our engagement with the applicants has been very strong and that we have a very strong applicant pool overall in this process thank you that's really helpful for me I I think like this we we know this decision will impact our pool the question is you know how much of an impact are we okay with the impact knowing that there's a couple people who may not go forward with it and I I'm not I want I would like to have a little additional information before making the.

Decision I understand that is that can be complicated but I would just personally would be interested to hear from all of those applicants to know you know with this decision who are we also saying no to I think the context of public education is really tricky and it can has become more challenging and so I want to I understand the concerns that some applicants may have around having their name be the finalist also hear the faith that my colleagues have in the process and the desire that the right candidate will be in the right in the finalist position so I hold those tensions together I think I'm just Desiring a little more information as I'm making that decision because I'm really am thinking how do I have as many as possible so we'll want a little additional information and also just know a little bit about the profile of the folks who may say no so that's just where I'm personally at yeah so so the only real question.

Is the comfort with moving the process to into July by our timing if you want Community to engage in a process that's called culminating mid June you really have to let them know this week and that's kind of the the time pressure that you're up against so that people can fully participate in that process and that's that's if you're going with the broader Community engagement approach that that the motion is on the floor for so that's that's really the key point of tension there if you want to more time to make the decision you would just need to extend the timeline for when your finalist interviews would take place so that you can have whatever feels like the most comprehensive information before you can make that decision and allow the time for Community to to nominate themselves and others to make their interest known to make themselves available to particip in a process like this I do have one follow-up question Monica how is if the the community.

Nominates themselves for to be a part of this and then how are the folks chosen for those finalist panels like who makes the decisions around who would be in those different groups so the board really determines the representation that they would like to have so that might be race and ethnicity it might be focus on special education versus or exceptional children right versus it could be type of school and communities represented these are all different things that the board has identif boards in the past have identified we actually go through the pool of those who have been nominated and we ensure usually by random algorithm and our spreadsheet who makes up each of those groups to ensure that it meets what the board is looking like in terms of sorry what the board would like to see in terms of representation of each of those panels so you all would have to decide which panels you would want and then we would typically work with the Liaisons who are the chair and vice chair to.

Confirm the makeup of those panels in terms of representation we the board has full access to everyone that was nominated or nominated themselves and the board board members are able to review those panels before they're. Finalized thank you Monica that's helpful I do I just also want to note I'm not completely close to idea I think it is like this could be different and new and I think new in some ways for some many of the large districts in North Carolina and so I don't I'm not opposed I would like to know though and I'm just want to phrase this for everyone who's listening kind of who are the applicants that we're talking about before I were to make this decision because I would want to make sure that we're able to have really great folks in the pool I think our students and our Educators deserve a really great applicant so I'm holding both of those tensions together and know that this is a really it's a difficult decision to make so.

Miss Lewis hey Monica I have a couple of questions about the self- nominating that you were just touching on and then the process that board member Beyer brought up the middle portion how are those two the same and different because it sounds like you're saying we still make up we decide who is on the panels and both of them is that what's the same in both of them or is it that anyone can self-nominate yeah I'm just confused about the difference between the two if you can explain that thanks so in broader Community engagement anybody has the opportunity to participate so anyone can nominate themselves or others because you have lots of you you you you'll have somewhere between five and seven different panels that are getting the interview with the with the candidates potentially in the smaller hypothetical it's a much smaller group so you're probably talking one group of maybe 10 to 12 people so there it's a lot harder to open up to the whole Community you certainly could do.

That but narrowing that group then to a really limited number becomes a lot harder to do you know ultimately it's the board's decision how you want to carry this out but th that's the challenge if if you're only having say one group of individuals and you're trying to Encompass in that group community members caregivers students teachers principles then how you arrive at that group is much more constrained so it's just up to you how how you would want to go about determining who's part of that group just for a point of clarification though I'm sorry m i my understanding in that second scenario was that their names are still protected and kept confidential their confidentiality is protected until they're a finalist that's the difference that I was understanding and if I if I'm misunderstanding please clarify that for me I'd appreciate it I think that that you could potentially do that yes so those individuals who are participating on a panel could sign confidentiality.

Agreements okay so then coming back to the questions that I was thinking about with the self- nominating known that we have 80% students of color and majority minority District ultimately and thinking about the superintendent Community conversations engagements that you recently had I know you're going to probably tell us on the May 28th meeting exactly how many people were engaged at the different sessions and even the demographics of those who chose to be there in the sense of self- nominating but off the top of your head would you say that those who were engaged at the superintendent search represented the diversity of our community in those that Monday Tuesday Wednesday when you all were here in person I don't have that data with me at this time we're still pulling together the full report of all of the discussions that we had to be able to provide that the survey at this point is is not matching your student population we are understanding that may be common but we we don't know yet for.

Certain yeah that's not uncommon for us for the surveys is not to match our population but even with the engagement that would be concerning I don't want to delay a decision being made as I hear you say it will extend the timeline but having that information of those that were self selected engaging could possibly batch the self- selecting engagement for this process that would be my concern and then the other thing I'm thinking about is with the full engagement that that we're talking about with the self- nominating what would that take as far as Manpower from our side regarding marketing Communications and forms what does that look like is it one day of these four or five different forums I'm I'm I'm picturing like a Saturday and all the community members are able to come together and we're in the mini for Brown Center so just trying to picture what does that day look like and what ises the lift inel and the interviews usually take place over a day and a half and they're.

Usually on District property so they are coordinated by staff in terms of the space and the time the the communication with panelists it's really just the same as it was similar to what it was for our site visit it's letting people know about the opportunity so you know letting the community know that they can do this we would probably communicate back out to the community organizations and then we would have the district use their normal channels for communicating with different with parents caregivers students Schools staff about this opportunity we would keep the window open for two weeks and Alma would really be managing those responses from there in terms of the interviews themselves we do them in a day and a half it is it is not like an easy process there's some organizing of meeting rooms and you know making sure that the panelists know where they need to go when they get there so districts usually have two staff on hand to just support the people that are participating in those panels.

Interviews thank you for that and then also you mentioned that the self- nominating community members would also have anti-bias training when would that happen and how's that coordinated that happens in their preparation for the interviews so panelists participate in two interviews I'm sorry panelists participate in two preparation meetings and that's when they receive that information and so those would happen in the one to two weeks before the interview them the interview. Itself thank you and I just wanted to ask a follow-up question based on what Miss Lewis was asking earlier Monica you had said that we could select the the panels based on different factors that were important to us and you mentioned race and ethnicity in that case we could do is it true that we could do a demographic survey or that this is how you all do it and make sure that the representation of those participating absolutely does match and you know also I guess give more time if we need to to you know ask ask people.

To send this out again to encourage people to self-nominate if needed is that could you just speak to that part of the process that's correct so the nomination form would include whatever information the board wants to know about individuals who are being nominated and all all of that information is then reviewed as we create each of the panels we we can't guarantee for sure that it will turn out exactly that we want but we will be monitoring what's coming in and continuing the community outreach and doing our best to have groupings that really do represent the community as as the board you know lays out that that criteria okay thank you yeah and just that bill what you saying you know it can't be guaranteed because it's volunteer people self- selecting self- nominating and it is a time commitment is also what I'm hearing it's time commitment one to two weeks prior to prepare for the bias training and then getting on the different panels in a day.

And a half of work and conducting the interview so I just I do think that we need to be realistic about who we're engaging and looking at what we've already done with our engagement and how this will be done differently so that we don't have just our usual suspects but those who have sometimes are harder to reach and I don't know that I know that we we just Tri that with this superintendent Community engagement and again doing something in June after school has let out for those families that are hard to reach I don't know that we will have a diverse input and impact that we might be looking for at this route so I did want to clarify we're not asking each panel to dedicate a day and a half all of the interviews take part over the day and a half and so we ask for you know essentially a window of community time usually the parent caregiver group will meet after work hours and so we work as best as we.

Can to identify the times that that people are able to participate and so for the interview panels it's typically three to four hours max of their time to carry out those interviews and so you know what I can say Miss Lewis is we let the community know what the parameters are and we have them let us know if they think they can do it and if they can participate and so that's been our approach in the past no I understand I was just saying it's just not guarantee that's all Miss Carda-Auten aen I similar to board member shavez I went into this I think our small groups a couple of weeks ago now not thinking that this was the approach I wanted to take but after learning more about your process I am in favor of an open finalist round and I think that's for it was a couple reasons but now a third too and I think one it helps us learn more about candidates in a way.

That we would not otherwise be able to do and that for me as I was like searching around today trying to find examples of this like one that I found was the Lawrence Massachusetts group that you've worked with and just watching the way that those students ask the questions and engage and how the candidates for superintendent engage engaged with them just felt very different to me than like that's different than Community engagement sessions where we're asking we are asking or you're asking questions of students or families it's watching a superintendent and how they engage with the students not just board members so to me that just feels really unique and something that again it's information that will help guide our search that we're not otherwise going to have I also like that this really makes the process transparent in a at a time when we need that and and the more that I searched online the more not like it feels like this process is unique to Alma of having the different.

Panels with the students in one and the parents and and that but having the finalist round be open and having candidates names out there I saw that in tiny school districts in rural areas I saw that in big like Duval County Florida is meeting right now and revealing their finalist two candidates for a meet and greet where families get to go like shake hands and get to know them it just feels like this is more Comm than it might not be new it might be new to Durham but I'm interested in us doing things in a new way and then last is the other reason that this interests me is that it feels like it's a process and I don't Monica you haven't really spoken to this so I'm curious to know if you see this but it feels like it also gives candidates a chance to get to know and understand our community in a way that they wouldn't otherwise have a chance to do I mean it's possible they'll sit there and.

Decide they don't want to be part of this community but to see you know what they're stepping into and start engaging and give them a glimpse that they're they wouldn't otherwise have a chance to have before this so I don't know if you wanted to if you if you have anything that you would want to share about that if not it's okay too absolutely I mean it's it is a lot and the superintendency is a lot it's a big job and it's challenging it's politically complex and that's what you all are asking asking for and so giving the candidates the opportunity to meet your community is is very beneficial to them and to the board and to the community and the input that you get helps inform not just your decision but also the support that individual might need once they're in the job how best to introduce your person to the community I absolutely agree with Vice chair Chavez you will have two to three phenomenal candidates our goal is to get.

You to the point where you have candidates that any one of them could be your superintendent and it's it is possible that aspects of the community might get behind one candidate over the other but it's the board's job to look at all of that information and then to determine what makes the most sense you will have had two interactions with them before they get to the finalist stage so you have a whole body of information to base your decision on and this Insight from the community is is just incredibly helpful no matter what so I would agree with you Miss carda aen and I would say it's very eye openening for the candidates and it's very eye openening for the board as well thank you Miss Beyer oh I'm sorry so I appreciate this discussion I appreciate all the voices in this space and the the need for us to figure this out this fig this I don't think we actually need to figure this out today I disagree.

With that need and that need for a vote today I think that it is important for us to see every single candidate who has submitted their name for part for consideration by this board I think we owe them at least that consideration I think we live in a very divisive state right now where candidates that are working and doing Equity work in red districts are heroes and they deserve our consideration amongst all the other candidates I don't want to lose a single one and I'm trying to consider them as professionals and the risk that they take by applying even to Durham if they're North Carolina or Southern sitting superintendents because we are different than most districts in this state I say this as someone that along with chair Umstead LED what I considered to be a successful but closed search for Dr MinGa that resulted in a long tenure in this community I love our community I will continue to listen to our community all the way through this process we always do but this.

Board either June 30th if we can get it done before then is the board that makes this vote we will have information through reference checks through background checks through questions that we ask in ways that we deliberate amongst ourselves that will not ever become public I want us to be nimble because we are limited by the time of year and and the number of candidates that are are also being recruited by other districts and I want us to be able to accelerate our process if we and timeline if we need to I want us to listen to our incoming board members who were just elected by this community our community did not have an open search for the county manager did not have an open search for the city manager for the chancellor at nccu for the county attorney these are these are serious somber decisions that this board is elected to make with full information I am concerned about candidates that do well in public settings and are gregarious.

And how they are preferred over someone that might be an introvert I think some people do well at those those kind of tasks and those kind of interactions and that doesn't necessarily mean they are the Right leader for this District in this community at this moment and I'm really really concerned and I've talked with colleagues about this before about our job is to set this superintendent up for success in a really challenging time in a challenging state in a beautiful Beloved Community and so as part of that I think we we owe them protecting their confidentiality as we make this deliberation and this decision and I'm concerned about our community getting behind them and being excited about them but it it's a it's essentially still a a decision that this board will make and so if you for if if if this is forced to a vote tonight I will have to vote it down and I don't I that doesn't mean that I'm not open to the second option or ways to consider.

This as we move along the process if if our finalists are three candidates that are comfortable with their identity being shared that's that's a different decision point to me but throwing people out at at the ear EST stage does not send the message that I want to to these candidates that are risking joining this conversation with us thank you that is just a point of clarification a motion on the table we do and it's motion for option one not option two right option the Open final open completely open yeah not sorry not completely open it's structured but without the confidentiality agreements so no confidentiality agreement and so but we did put or discuss a second option which would be confidentiality agreements selected community members a panel right panel of 10 to 12 yeah and the other one has I forget the number but more yeah so one of the concerns in speaking to community members about this and in speaking to folks who might be interested in recommending their friends or something you know might.

Might might say might have applied is this notion of popularity and I think that board member Beyer is kind of hinting at that in terms of Engagement names being put out and some of the implications of anybody who is a sitting superintendent applying and especially if they share any intersectional identities there's a pattern folks are tracking the number of people who lose their job jobs after applying not directly but there's ways that things just become a little different I mean the tone and and the Hue if they're not chosen as the person for our district once they continue their their work within a matter of time and this happens not only for superintendents but also chancellors especially if they're women somebody's looking at that data as well about women presidents or chancellors women superintendents some of those implications and so so I think that you know the conversation that we had it kind of shows the pros of both options one because we do want to have Community engagement we we have it.

Ongoing right now it's very important to have and we also talked about the fact that you know we we want to include Community Voices as much as possible but I guess the question is do we want to do that to candidates that are coming to apply and if if there are already people saying that this makes them uncomfortable or that they wouldn't want to I I just wonder if if if we're going to continue to lose candidates the more that time progresses and you know if they make it to that finalist round are are are we going to are there going to be any any implications for strong candidates that may have concerns about what would happen if they don't get chosen and what will happen to their jobs and so I I think this question is polarizing in some ways not totally but polarizing in the sense that we want to do right by the candidates we want to do right by the community they're not mutually exclusive and for me option b.

Seems to provide a way to do both a way to include Community Voices a panel of folks from a cross-section of of identities like whether they are staff students Community leaders we can figure that one out and also have on non-disclosure agreements confidentiality agreements that would protect candidates who who would feel most comfortable with that and so I I think that that is more of a compromise and option b but there's a motion on the floor right now and so I am going to defer to let this process play out and I I do think that option b is also an option that we we can consider Miss Rogers couple.

Things our students deserve for us to be courageous leaders and make hard choices and we have an opportunity to demonstrate if I were a candidate I'd be watching this and making sure that they understood what our board wants and if they're watching this I hope that they know that they can tell we want true Community engagement when they come to our district and that we are demonstrating that by allowing true Community engagement throughout this process I also think that it's time that we as a board start having convers Sation that align with our values and our ideals even when they're people at the podium and in community that we traditionally disagree with agreeing with what we want to see going forward and we have to start doing that work we have to really start listening and hearing and accepting that feedback and so when I made my motion it was not to exclude the process of having non-disclosure agreements signed and doing a panel so I'm happy to amend the motion.

That includes a panel of participants that sign ndas and come in and have conversations with our candidates because ultimately we're the ones that are making the decisions based on all the information that we know and based on the interactions that they have with the members of our community that have elected to be a part of this process with us would you be open to that Amendment Miss Travis I'm open to it I have some questions if we're doing that with the with the ndas then are they are they indefinite they can or is there a time at which they can speak on on the.

Interviews who are you posing the question to oh I I think I'm posing it to you Monica okay I'm not familiar very familiar with NDA sort of guidelines so we so we typically have a confidentiality agreement when we issue these but I know Mr Malone was offering some others that he's used or that the district has used in the past the confidentiality agreements we have used have typically been related to the process itself typically once the information is public meaning once the candidate is announced information about that candidate is not is not shared is is known and it's in the it's in the public Arena I I think you're asking about let's say they meet three finalists and so two are not selected then the request would be that they hold their candidacy confidential as well beyond the selection so you know that they wouldn't come out later and say this is who these were the people that we interviewed is that that's what you're asking yes.

Yeah so my response but I think it would I I'm comfortable with Mr Malone if he wants to weigh on this is that you would have to establish an agreement that it has the terms you would like to set and to Define what confidentiality means as concretely as possible yeah I would agree I would assume that the the agreement would be that information about the candidates who are not selected would remain confidential and and theoretically not much of what was discussed in the confidential interview would would be released either but certainly not the names of the individuals that were not selected thank you for that and then I do have this question about students engaging I because I just wonder about having students sign an a confidentiality confidentiality agreement where we're asking them to to hold something and not tell other people and I understand we might have older students who are like 16 and 17 years old and able to process that but I am just a little.

Conc concerned about how that limits us with students and so how I guess how common is that that you would have students sign a confidentiality agreement in this process that would be uncom less common for us you know some boards have like a representative student member of the board who participates in this you know if we go with the more limited route we're probably thinking I'm sorry to excuse me sorry it would have to be you know it's it's more likely a group of 10 to 12 individuals in a in a single group so more likely than not you're talking about one to two students so thinking about you know what your criteria would be for them would be important what I would say is there's a lot of Precedence in in school systems around the country of having students sit with the board advise the board Weighing on board matters even or serve on in some sort of advisory capacity so I think we've seen enough sort of comparable.

Types of responsibilities that that I think it would be great to have students represented in this kind of process okay thank you Miss Carda-Auten Aon and I just wanted to clarify too if we do this other option where there's one panel that signs a confidentiality agreement that panel cons will end up being 10 to 12 individuals which will include if we'd like it to include parents or caregivers students and staff so all we'd have to select yeah School leader would will have to select just 10 to 12 from our whole District to do that and but we would be able to maintain the confidentiality or the names of the finalists so anybody that's not selected to be our superintendent's name ideally or the plan would be for that those names to never be released and in contrast the other the motion that's on the floor would be to have six or seven panels maybe two for students two for parents caregivers one for you know maybe two for staff one for school leadership.

Things like that right and those I'm so sorry to interrupt it would typically be like one panel per rle so one for students one for parents caregivers School leaders would have their own panel so on and so forth so the board would have to decide which panels we have a recommendation for you all to start with but it it would be like one panel of each of those groups and each of those groups would have up to 12 to 15 participants in each one okay thank you and then and is it I I don't think we've talked about this tonight but is it typical that the student and the parent caregiver panels are live streamed or how do you all do that or in in an alma search we usually would live stream the student panel and the parent panel so that the community can see both of those interviews you asked about Lawrence Massachusetts and I would have to see but I'm I'm fairly certain they followed a similar kind of.

Thing we were they were taking place while we were in dur last week about that thank you and then and then in that scenario the final two to three finalists would be public information with their you know names out there bios Etc but that information would be communicated like we would if we were to decide that this week then all applicants for this position would be notified of that now so they would know early though most applicants already know this is something the board is considering so we would be confirming with them what what you all decide one more point of clarification you said that two or three have indicated that they would not be comfortable with this and that was out of how many that were asked that was out of I think we're up to 12 or 13 that have been interviewed so far and it was two applicants and one who has not applied yet and that's in our data set those are the candidates we've spoken the individuals we've spoken.

With but Monica they don't prefer their information being out I mean I don't know how you're asking the question but I don't I can't imagine unless it's a state requirement for it to be out that they prefer it actually we've had several applicants specifically say I would prefer to meet with members of your community so yes there are people who would prefer it and there are people who would prefer not to be but are willing to do it and then there are two who've said you know it would be I'd really have to think about that and we'd want to continue to talk to them and see if we could still have them continue through the process even even with those conditions but that also matches our experience in every other search I mean we just completed the Madison superintendent search and you had a sitting superintendent of the year from nearby St Paul Minnesota who was selected for that for that role who was willing to go through that.

Process so we've had we've we're very experienced at this and very experienced in the sort of the care and facilitation of the process and the care and support for the candidates in that as as well two more follow-ups do you know you had mentioned and board member Byer just referenced this that there were some states that required that candidates so we have we yes so we have states that are governed by the sunshine laws so Ohio and Florida are two in particular where applicant names can be made public at any point in time so we've we've LED three searches in the state of Ohio that are governed by those rules the state of Wisconsin allowed for basically boards are required in the state of Wisconsin to share the names of finalists so the rules are a little bit different there so it's it's a little different and every state has its rules that they're governed by there so my understanding is North Carolina obviously is is able to only announce your sole finalists and.

Able to protect the confident potentiality of all applicants along the way okay thank you I just wanted to get a sense like when I saw this happening in Michigan and Massachusetts and Wyoming if they were included in that Massachusetts is interesting there are different rules in Massachusetts even about what the board's deliberation looks like so every state has different rules that we're Bound by as we go through this search process thank you and I guess one final note when I was looking around I saw that other can other districts also once they o open those names up to the public can then do different School tours and meet and greets and meet like it just feels like it's allowing again not just through the interview process but there could be other avenues for those individuals to get to know folks in the community and be out in our schools yes we just completed Dayton Ohio where our three finalists did engage in School tours that were determined by the board but as as you.

Said board member CA Aon we definitely there are all sorts of ways that you can engage with your finalists so agree that there are lots of opportunities for candidates to engage with the community and it's really just about again continuing to try to manage and mitigate bias as best as you can and really having the board be the primary sort of stewards of that and and as well you know wanting the process to set the candidate up to demonstrate their best sells to put their best foot forward so we like structure to be part part of it so you know there's not like a gacha element of the process it's very planful and aligned with the job profile that the board has.

Established all right there is there has been a motion on the floor and Miss Rogers amended the motion and I will accept the amendment as I think it is in line with with where our board is at and we'll do a voice Vote or is there any further discussion just ask Mr Malone to kind of highlight kind of some from searches what information might the board have that the public wouldn't see in either of these scenarios just so we have kind of in the in this processes the the other things that we'll be doing in the background on these candidates that don't become public like references references criminal background checks you know informations from information from the actual interviews that the board conducts the application materials or the resumés and the the letters of interest all of that information would be maintained confidentially you know by the board and then sometimes you get into conversations about salary you could sometimes back and forth with folks like there's sometimes like reasons that that first candidates don't.

Come forward or you know like there's I was just talking about some of the complications that so that our community could have some more sense of how some of these things go no that is certainly true I mean there have been a handful of searches that our firm has come in the end to handle the contract negotiations when the selected candidate for whatever reason and the board were unable to reach terms on a contract and that candidate was not selected and the board would go to you know a different candidate and then negotiate a contract with one of their other finalists so that certainly does happen in the process where someone that would have been the first choice is not actually hired it's rare but it does happen you can can we just restate this motion for clarity and if if you all don't mind sure motion the amended motion that I've I've offered is to move forward with almost process of conducting the superintendent search that includes a finalist round with panelists that sign.

Confidentiality agreements to engage with the three or two final candidates whatever we decide at that juncture and then the board is able to deliberate and come to a selection of a superintendent candidate which would not would or would not include releasing finalist names to the community would not that's correct thank you I appreciate the clarification chair Amstead has a question yeah just one question on practice Monica do you all typically inform applicants in option b that this is how the interview process will proceed as well.

Yes we've already been discussing with them what is going what is being considered so it's part of our role to make sure that candidates know what to expect every step of the way okay and what they need to I guess this is feels similar to the incoming board members we want to make sure candidates are okay consent to having additional folks in their interview is that how that works I'm not sure how it works exactly yeah we've never had to have candidates sign consent forms it's typically the board's decision who is involved in the process our role is to notify the candidates about what the process is so that candidates know what to expect and we are we're in communication with our candidates every step of the way so they know what's happening they know what the timeline is they know what the steps are that the board is considering so there should be no surprises to the board we also provide we also provide for them the schedule of the interviews.

And we also typically will provide bios or information about each of the individuals that are participating as interviewers in their process if they're members outside of the board yeah that's helpful I just I think it's really as we talked so much about candidates who are putting themselves forward how do we make sure they are informed about every step of the process and who might be in the room like so that won't be a surprise and I would just like to stay a breast of who what candidates are saying throughout the process if they learn about this and that may make them feel uncomfortable or whatnot I'm just curious to to know or if they're really excited about it I I think even I was just listening to our numbers of having three that weren't sure about the open finalist process I hope those people feel really good about where we might land I'm not sure pending where this vote might be because I again I just want to have as many.

Applicants as possible in the process and acknowledging many of the comments that my previous board members made around things can get tricky When people's names are are out there in some of the context so thank you for answering those questions that was really helpful for. Me any further discussion all right we'll do a Voice vote starting with chair Umstead this is B up I vot I missis I miss caen I Lewis I miss Rogers I miss Byer I and I vote I it passes unanimously Monica thank you very much for leading us through this process and and I pass it back to you for maybe closing us out sure thank you for that I appreciate the the work that youall are putting in to create a thoughtful process for Alma we are your partners and your advisers in this process we bring a lot of experience and hope that is beneficial to you all as you're making your decision we're also really happy and have offered to connect you.

With other leaders who have carried out similar processes so want to extend that option again especially for anybody who is feeling like this is a really unique or process if it would be assuring to you to speak with others who've been through a similar process we would really welcome the opportunity to connect you with those with those individuals we don't know how your two or three candidates that are con concerned if they will feel more comforted I think it is more comforting than a wide open process but to board chair Umstead comments we have to check with them as well let them know this is where things are and see if they're comfortable with this kind of approach instead so we'll be following up with the board along those lines there are still some additional decisions that need to be made about this in terms of who would be on the panel and how those individuals would be selected so I'll be looking to meet with the chair and vice chair as soon as.

Possible to try to work through those details and to move forward as quickly as possible with that as always I'm always available to the board for any questions happy to talk any time as we continue down this path thank you very much for your work this evening thank you so much and thank you you for making yourself available and just answering all of our questions so thanks everyone and with that we are Vice chair sorry Vice chair Chavez I do have one question just Monica timeline wise can you let us know when the board will be making a decision around that first round or that second round of applicants who we would be interviewing and then yeah when does that come what when do we make that decision and sorry and when can we expect to see applications and material as well well our current timeline is that we are expecting to see applicant materials the week of May 20th for the first time so that's our current.

Timeline right now I what was the what was the initial part of your question when the board would be making a decision around who's going to be in the first round of interviews so Alma is presenting the candidates that are in your you mean in your first round of interviews Yeah in our first round of interviews so I know Elma does the the very first round maybe I call it the second round then when will the board be making the decision around who we talk to in the second round so the timeline we've discussed is that Alma is presenting candidates the week of May 20th our request is that you interview all of the candidates that we recommend the board has access to all applications so board members want to go through all of the applications and if there's someone else that you want to add to the mix we're comfortable doing that but our request is that you interview all of the candidates that we recommend to move.

Forward and not ask because I was wondering if we needed to schedule a meeting to review those applicants but we can talk more offline around what the right way to do that is so okay yeah okay thank you everybody any other. Questions looks like there are no more questions so thank you and with that we are adjourned all right thank you.