Board of Commissioners · Regular Meeting · June 5, 2023

okay so good afternoon everybody we are going to get started with our budget work session so we will start with item 230406 animal protection Society and I want to see who's and if you will introduce your team here and see we'll get started good afternoon Dwayne Brinson assistant County Manager Community safety first presentation on the agenda today is from the animal protection Society I have a PowerPoint we also have representatives from the sheriff's office here as well Allen is here and she can introduce herself and her team alternative or her this time thank you so much for letting us come today and speak with you I really appreciate all of you and look up to you

um I'm chiffon Allen the executive director of the animal protection Society of Durham this is Leah Santelli our director of life-saving programs and this is Carolyn Wiley our director of development I brought them here in case you have any questions about our life-saving efforts or our fundraising efforts this is who I count on to raise us over a million dollars a year thank you so you ready okay all right so the animal protection Society of Durham would you pull the mic up as close as you can oh can you hear me now that's better thank you thank you so um this presentation is about our budget and what we bring to Durham County and and while we're asking for additional funds so the animal protection Society of Durham and our life-saving partnership we are a people-centered organization that cares for animals we provide services to help keep pets in

their homes we provide temporary housing to pets that have no place to go and we provide the best care possible based on our resources who are we and who do we serve the animal protection Society of Durham is a 503c non-profit organization we've been serving Durham since 1970 and we've managed the Durham County Animal Shelter since 1990. we are not a National Organization we work locally we volunteer locally and we commit all of our resources to improving the lives and people in Durham we made that change in 2012 when the sheriff's department took over animal services that we now only serve Durham County and Durham County Citizens APS programs shelter animal shelter operations after hours emergency pet care for

displaced pets I actually just got an email from our bookkeeper that this fiscal year alone we spent over 75 thousand dollars at triangle pets emergency for the Stray and injured animals to get um they get hurt after hours and on weekends cruelty holes with medical support and investigation since animal animal protection Society of Durham is the only shelter in Durham and we have a partnership with the sheriff's department any animals that are seized for cruelty receive their medical support from APS and they also received their medical investigations from APS medical quarantines and evaluations and adoption program Redemption program Behavior assistance and Community hotline we have a free community hotline for people to call and get assistance with their animal behavior issues pet food and litter Pantry we provide free pet food and litter to the

community and right now we are partnering with the Salvation Army and Meals on Wheels to help deliver much needed food to the community we have a low-cost spay neuter program the 20 fix program in Durham is 100 funded by the aps we spay or neuter nearly 900 Community animals per year with a suggested donation of twenty dollars if they can't afford twenty dollars we'll pay the rest and we pay everything else to spay the neuter in any medical needs that they have at the time um there's a member of our the director of our Behavior team right there working with a dog who doesn't like he has any problems at all but believe me we get dogs with a lot of problems um and a picture of Gus one of the dogs that came to us and was with us for several months as he healed from falling from a truck how much does funding a compassionate

5 million dollars towards the care of animals and people in Durham yearly what we receive the Durham County Animal Shelter budget and this is the budget that we provide for you which is just the basics is one million 251 702 dollars and seven cents this is a cost to providing basic care that's taking them in feeding them and basic care this doesn't cover heartworm disease it doesn't cover or

hit by cars it doesn't cover many of the diseases we see every day and it doesn't cover any of the community services that our community so desperately needs Durham County contributes 878 375 to this budget this is the current budget when we're in the shelter contract only provides Primary Care APS provides all other Specialized Care and treatments this model is not sustainable what I mean by that is that about two years ago APS made a commitment to placing as many animals as we possibly could in Durham County we also made a commitment with covet and so many people getting evicted that we were going to start programs to help people keep their pets because we see having a pet is not a privilege but it is a benefit it is a health benefit is that Equity situation and someone shouldn't be limited to having some thing in their lives that helps with

their blood pressure helps them feel comfortable and safe based on whether or not they have more money than someone else because of those goals we we raise the expectations for ourselves which unfortunately becomes more expensive sorry I mean this clicker are not getting along right now um this is from our audited financials from fiscal year 22. our total income was two hundred two million three hundred seventy three thousand dollars 430 dollars of that 812 came from County funding 972 100 and 172 dollars came from Individual donations and grants event income was 337 240. shelter program income was 241 937. now shelter program income is adoption income only any animal that comes into the shelter

that is Redeemed by its owner that money goes directly to the county and is not counted here if someone cannot afford to pay their Redemption fees APS or Beyond fences pesos Redemption fees for them um also whenever we run adoption specials like right now we have a pick your price APS subsidizes all those adoption fees so if someone pays 20 APS pays the other 105. so that those animals can be adopted instead of not adopted and we know it you know not adopted means in these circumstances our animal and veterinary care and programs are 1769 458 dollars our Administration and management expense is 270 27 154 and fundraising and events cost three hundred and twenty seven thousand nine hundred and twenty eight dollars um thank you for for bearing with me there because numbers are not my thing people are

um but as you can see um it is it is extremely expensive to to do the things that we're doing in Durham County the fiscal year 23 24 budget request comparison fiscal year 23 budget request um was 887 375 dollars and eight cents this level contribution to the animal shelter operations leaves an insurmountable fundraising Gap although we're raising over a million dollars a year we are having to take money that we have for reserves every year in order to to help animals and people in Durham the way that we are and we are going to end this year in a significant deficit what we're asking we're asking for a 23 increase which would take it to one million eighty thousand three hundred thirty three dollars and fifty five cents why are we requesting a 23 increase Durham County

Community is growing we're all aware our community is getting larger needs are getting greater the needs continue to increase the need for more help in the shelter is needed and APS current level of contribution is unsustainable um as of right now the people who have joined me today including myself are paid 100 by APS um so at least I think 13 of us are APS only employees and only one of those gets any portion of their salary from the accounting that would be our veterinarian who um a small portion goes towards being neuter cost what APS brings to the table well-trained professional staff a large committed volunteer pool of over 650 County residents who not only donate their time they donate their money to making sure that the animals and people of Durham have the services they need a

great reputation and fundraising ability a low a loyal local committed partner who cares anytime that we are raising money and applying for a grant we're applying for it for Durham for Durham's Community my preference and I will always say this is to hire from within Durham I am from Durham I went to Hillside I went to Durham High I mean oh my God no lord I can't claim that I went to Durham Tech I have nothing against Durham hot for anybody who went there um and we have many young people who come from right around the same Community who've come in and been there for many years and learned skills and had the opportunity to build something for themselves Financial gifts we bring money and people to the table solely fund their salaries of several key employees for the sole purpose of serving Durham I was told that I needed to break these down in priorities um it's really difficult decide which

95 all of our base employees the 1695 an hour that at the time was cost of living it is much higher in Durham this year so we're raising again three percent at the time when we raised the hourly employees we did not raise our salaried employees so we did need to do that as well so number one is cost of living increases we sincerely believe in people having jobs that allow them to live a a decent life no one should work 40 hours a week and and be able to get a customer service manager this is the position that APS has actually already paid for for approximately four years because of our negative deficit this is a this is a position that we can no

longer carry that only serves the Durham County Animal Shelter we don't use it in any other capacity other than the shelter medical assistant um honestly when our veterinarian came back and it's really hard to find a vet right now it's really hard to hire a vet right now she came back with a list of things she would need in order to do her job and one of those was a medical assistant so we did bring in a medical assistant at the time we're covering her this year but we would like to add her to the shelter budget our fourth priority would be increased spay neuter cost drugs cost more they're harder to get the more animals we place the more animals we have to do surgery on and we also have contracted assistance in that area and a fifth that was a fifth when I wrote this as an animal care technician um we have a lot of animals at any given moment we have over 300 animals and we have maybe six

Animal Care techs for the dogs and three for the cats they are extremely overwhelmed and I would just say um in all reality many of the people who come into our show to come from our community they they they're part of our family and they are feeling tremendous amount of stress at having enough help um actually we just lost one of our Animal Care technicians a week ago um and it was yes so um and rabies pre-exposed her vaccines anytime you hire new people you have to protect them from deadly diseases that is number six I know it should probably be way up there but these will all be number one to me but I'm sure I could get a donation if need be to get our people vaccinated attached to the presentation is our shelter budget and shelter budget

request letter our full budget for fiscal year 23 and profit loss report and that was a profit loss report as of May 11th which at the time was I believe about 209 000 in the negative I did run one today and hopefully it'll be better this afternoon because we're working on books and my bookkeeper tries to scare me by putting in all the debts first but as of this morning we were at a negative 465 167 thousand dollar budget um now we budgeted that we knew it was going to take some money and some reserves to do the things that we we expected to do and we hope to not have to cut services that are so needed in the community um but we know that's not sustainable so that is the end of my presentation I

did attach a lot of information to this presentation for your review I'm not certain whether or not you all have had an opportunity to go through everything but I did make some notes and then prepared to answer some questions if you have them for me and for any member of my team well thank you for the presentation first of all we appreciate you being here and I will open it up for Commissioners any questions commissioner Burns how you doing I'm good how are you are you I'm good um I do have a lot of questions I'm not going to ask them all um I might submit them because I want to be fair to my colleagues and fair to your time I did take time to look over um all the material and I want us to have a good animal shelter I want the people who work there to have a good experience

I want them to feel good about coming to work I want them to feel good about their salaries um I guess where my con my concerns are this is a budget request it's my understanding I could be wrong but this budget request came after we had already closed out some of the budget requests is that correct I submitted my budget in in February okay when it was due February 15th it was on time okay I'm just asking sis no no no I'm just straightforward I'm not upset at all well we about to get yeah 23 is a lot that's a lot more than I I think a lot of our other folks are asking for I don't necessarily see in the chart so I'm gonna run through through the questions and um and um I'll tell you the ones that I think are most present so I get the child run the animal shelter I was curious about what other programs y'all ran outside of the animal shelter but you answered that one already that that is the only one y'all have y'all had this contract solely for

about 30 years I am somewhat concerned about that I'm gonna be very honest I'm always curious when we haven't done rfps I'm always curious when you know when's the last time somebody did an audit uh because you're giving us numbers that I haven't seen I see that some of these requests are not new their current positions but you don't have a line item for current budget you have one for requested I assume that's because you don't think you're going to be able to fulfill them you mentioned that you've had to pull money out of reserves I didn't see the reserve number up there so I would be curious what your reserves are I don't even know if we're privy to that but you all do have them um I have some questions about you said you had event money you had fundraising money you answered a lot of that because the adoptions are one way that you all bring in funding uh you all have events I imagine that that funding is used to buy kitty litter feed what just a plethora of things to feed the animals to uh by medications for the animals I guess for

me I go back to the tmvr conversation because we want to be a county that doesn't euthanize but there was a couple of months last year where y'all were at capacity didn't euthanize at all the policy back then was the euthanize after seven days and I'm like I want to give y'all more money I want to give y'all more support but we're at capacity we can't take anybody in we can't function I just would outside of this presentation I guess I'm asking more globally um I'm not saying no but I I would like to and audit's a bad word I would just really like to see a review of everything that kind of sort of goes on um the other question I have and you answered it I said per your financial statement you said y'all had one one million six hundred eighty seven thousand dollars and eight hundred and two dollars in investment funds and then at the end of fiscal year 21 you had 2 million 93. 352 million 93 359 and so y'all raised the money off of um the

shelter um and so I'm assuming if you all are raising the money to say that you use this to run the shelter everything you raise goes right back into the shelter or does any of that go into Reserve that's the big question yeah so um there I I did attach inside the documents our financial audits we get one an in-depth Financial audit debt every single year it does have our reserves listed there um anything and it's been years um anything that is above above what we need to run the shelter so we have what you see there are two there are two budgets so our profit and loss is our full APS budget the budget that we submit for vote is the shelter budget there are many things that are on the full APS budget that are not on that shelter budget like you don't see my salary you don't see Carolyn's salary because we're not on that budget so as a non-profit there is that full

budget now if we happen to have someone say pass away and leave us four hundred thousand dollars or as in not profit 50 503 B there are people who leave us money and say hey you can't save you can't spend this this needs to be put aside and you can perhaps use interest yeah so like every donation that you give and especially grants if you get grant money that money has to be used for a specific purpose um there are certain positions even like we have right now community outreach person that's handling rescues they were paid for by best friends Grant once that grant money is over then they need to be picked up in our in our budget or they need to be let go so there are certain things that we have money for at one point and then we don't have money um as of right now I would say the last three years we've operated at a negative um absolutely nothing that comes from

Durham County is ever put in reserves what comes from Durham County actually isn't able to run the shelter at the level it is so it is all kept like they're they're very like I have audits for years we get a very in-depth audit every single year we have to we have to as part of this contract we have to in order to have grants so everything that we receive from our operation funds and adoptions they go strictly to running running the shelter Whenever there is a need an extra need for anything at all it comes out of aps's accounts I have heartworm positive dogs apss accounts I have hit by cars aps's accounts any of those we receive I believe a little over nine thousand dollars a year for emergency after hours care this year we spent 75 000. that so that that difference would come from APS aside so in order the way and we're not a secret to to our

money is up there is on the financials is on our audits we are very transparent um we're on guidestar you mean you can you can look us up but so lost my train of thought their there is no extra and it wouldn't be taken from the county if there was every single thing that comes from the county is used for the county purposes and when we do a fundraiser it is not for extra like say we had the we recently had the walk for the animals and we raised 125 000. that money goes to what we're currently doing whenever we write a budget as a non-profit organization the expectation is our income is going to be what we fundraise so we start the year with saying okay Carolyn I need you to raise two million dollars this year so every event we have every fundraiser we have everything we have is going towards that income just

like we're we're hustling for the money that's how we're getting it where they've seen these numbers before I'm familiar with the work um and you mentioned something I have a question about you said euthanized for 70 days no seven I didn't say 70. I was my question was weren't you all at capacity last year back to the tmvr conference yeah we've been in capacity for for a long time with cats we are not in capacity right now and the way that the shelter actually operates so that so that um if you all aren't aware we don't pull by time and we don't at this point pull by space we pull by health and by temperament right so based on how well they're doing um if they're not doing well medically and we aren't able to help them and behaviorally they're not safe for the community and cannot be placed aggressive yeah and so it's not it's it's a legal holding period but there is

no if you get any emails from anybody in in the county or whatever saying oh my God they kill animals in this I don't it's definitely not the case it depends on how the animal is doing but we don't euthanize four space that is correct uh you might have to my colleagues I have some more questions later give me Jacobs well thank you so much for being here it's really helpful to you know get the information directly and you did provide us a lot of information I really appreciate what you and all of your staff do um thank you the aps has been our partner for 33 years and just even looking at the budget is pretty astounding uh that the county only provides about eight hundred and forty one thousand dollars and that it's only about 34 percent of

the budget or the different programs and services that you provide that you are actually raising um you know three quarters of the budget out in the community and be interesting to know what the value is as well of the 650 volunteers I don't know if you've ever done a economic impact or value of that labor it is a significant value I didn't pull it up for this meeting but it is a significant value yeah so I would be I'd be curious to know that number as well because and Dwayne I would also love to get benchmarking data about the top five counties that we do compare ourselves to as well as our neighbors orange and Chatham um well especially orange I guess of course wake but how much they spend on the counties directly provide for animal

shelter Care Animal Services I know it's probably going to be hard to do apples to oranges but just to um but you know the fact is if we're benefiting uh the county is benefiting from basically all the volunteer labor and also the fundraising that you do in the community so I'm very grateful for that I would be really curious to know more about your what salaries people are are getting this is this is a big priority for our board we're we've just we're going to be getting our staff up to 1940 I think 1920 um so I mean the fact that you're asking for you know 59 000 to get to do a three percent increase I mean that's very modest I remember at one point a few years ago you you had staff that weren't even making 15 an hour we had some staff

95 an hour yeah that's that's yeah and you can't get people to work for that I mean no we we try to you know get them to stay because we're nice and yeah it would be great to get some more information about that and then I just I I think there's been some type of um disconnect or I'm trying to

understand I saw that you had submitted this Budget on February 13th um so who who was that submitted to I always submit my budget to the Sheriff's Department and um and yeah I turned it into to the sheriff's department and they're in their budget February yes okay um so I guess going forward we need to work on the communication because I know our staff didn't get it or at least what we what we were told was that it was submitted you know you know a few weeks ago or something like that but my point is that we and I'll definitely check that yeah February it was it was I can send you the original email if you like okay so we we definitely need to work on um just how how things are getting communicated and shared um

9 increase cost of living increase there's been health insurance increases in insurance and things like that so but 23 percent is much much higher than the

typical five percent that's given or allocated for contract increases each year so we did make the county budget office aware but just timeline contractually it does not mesh well with the county timelines for Budget proposals right so okay well it sounds like we we need to work on what's going to a different timeline that's going to work for everyone um so it sounds like there's some conversations that now good to have about that a question for us and I don't know if I'm able to ask this normally we we know you know more information about our contract and budget by this time because we also start a budget in July 1st which we can't do um now um since this process has been moved out so far is there any idea when APS would know about their contract or their budget and I will say that we did not include

the 23 and the manager's recommended budget because we didn't have any details about this proposal so that was not included and our budget team can confirm I think there's a five percent increase or a slight increase but but I know it was not the 23 percent because that was not a conversation we had how could how confirm Commissioners and APS the current budget is loaded flat what we call Flat meaning the same as last year without any increase because that's what we received at the time of the budget request all other parts of this were said to still being reviewed until this came up again a couple weeks ago but some of this is processed stuff that obviously our office will work diligently with the Sheriff's Office to make sure we streamline in future years so we appreciate the opportunity here and I will say that we typically would not expect for the budget team to have the conversation because it is a division of the Sheriff's Office and so

it is a process that we allow the sheriff's team and APS to talk through and then the sheriff's office would provide a recommendation to the budget staff okay well I I would be concerned about a flat budget I mean we can just look at our own budget and you know the average increase is about 10 percent we know that we we know all the issues that everybody is facing related to the cost of everything has gone up whether it's medications or for us materials I mean staff you know benefits I mean we're doing that ourselves so I I would not expect a flat salary um you know we we know all the challenges so I think we need to be fair and we need to be reasonable we may not be able to do 23 but we need to do at least try to address what we're seeing in in all parts of our community so um so I hope that we'll look at you know if we can't do the 23 I know 10 percent

is the average increase when I looked at County departments I mean some we've got higher than that some lower than that but that was the average so so you know we can talk about it further but I do hope that we can try to at least meet some of the needs and I appreciate um the ACT I mean I get lots of emails about concerns about things I I never get a concern about the services provided by APS never so I'm grateful to you all thank you thank you for taking the time to hear and I don't know if anyone else has any other questions um yes we yes what are some of the questions yes so um we'll start on this side commissioner alum thank you all so much for coming and all of your work and Service uh APS my cat is actually from the shelter talks he used to be named Franklin at the shelter but now we've named Socks

um I in in agreement with you know increasing especially when it comes to like the salaries making sure that we're paying everyone uh a living wage is a really big priority and so I'm supportive of us trying to find a way especially focusing on that to include that within our budget I did have one clarifying question of in the attached budget proposal so I see the request is one million eighty thousand three hundred thirty three last year was 878 375. and that added up to be a 201 958 dollar difference right but then the PowerPoint in the budget increase priorities I added those up and that equaled 220 905. so I don't know if I did math wrong or no no you probably did not I started you

probably did not uh we don't have a finance director at the shelter so welcome to finance director um what was the difference um so on the slideshow the proposed budget editions totaled to 220 000. 905 but in the budget proposal the difference in the increase was 201 958. so I don't know which of the two oh yes I see it here okay so I am hmm okay so the the increase we are asking for is two hundred and one thousand nine hundred and fifty eight thousand that's a 23 increase but what I added had to do priorities um I put like it ended up costing more we don't want if that adds up to more than two hundred and one thousand nine hundred and fifty eight thousand forty seven cents I'm not asking for that okay extra nineteen thousand

dollars yeah it's just how that ended up I must have went down in some other areas of the budget okay that are actually more um yeah I'll probably save money in some other parts of the budget okay yeah yeah if that if you could update that slide then and just share that out so we can just see yeah if that needed those adjustments there if it was in another part of the budget I think it's it's definitely I will what I'll do is I will point to because I printed out I will on the budget the proposed budget there are probably some areas in here that are actually going to be lower next year than they were before so I will sort of highlight those and and send them I guess directly to the Commissioners or the budget office or that would be great yeah and I think to commissioner Jacob's point also this the volunteer hours if you could also send us like yes if you have that available like that monetary value I guess um and then also the cost of living

95 we put in a three percent increase and so that will take them up um almost 45 1745 will be the new starting pay thank you commissioner Burns

I know that's all my questions thank you yes yes was that covered in the original budget proposal that you sent in yes there's no this is the original um what we're discussing is the original one that I said in February I didn't change it any from February 15th I guess I'm having a hard time with the discrepancy between um the five percent and the 20 that you're asking now but I'll I'll get to that let me just go ahead and let um commissioner Carter uh weigh in and she mentioned five percent so to clarify the recommended budget does not include five percent I thought there had been a recommendation for five percent increase but there was not and so there has not been a um there was no

recommendation there was no recommendation to increase the aps budget at all right which I don't know any organization that's able to operate on flat funding um I mean so I'm on the Animal Welfare advisory committee as you all know mentioned it a bunch of times here lately um and the reports I hear from APS every month really indicate to me that the staff is incredibly professional incredibly compassionate incredibly Community oriented and driven they care about animals of course so much more than that um you know really Adept at fundraising um the couple fundraisers I've been to it's been amazing the amount of money that we're in um I I you know the volunteer hours are just unheard of you know I don't we don't even need a monetary value necessarily to know that 650 volunteers and however many hours that would add up to is just absolutely incredible you know if we had to pay pay those people

um and you know the bottom line is you are a partner who cares and I have really grown to appreciate that so much I've also felt like there's an excellent working relationship between Animal Services office of the sheriff and and the shelter um that seemed to be very evident in our meetings so that's great um you know I don't know what you would cut from this list of priorities we want you to do the cost of living increases and those positions you mentioned I don't know how you'd function without them and then the others are increased costs for spaying and neutering we want to keep doing that for sure and of course you have to give rabies pre-exposure vaccination so I don't know we could I mean I mean I'm tempted to say we maybe need to increase it because you're not making it up to 1922 an hour for all of your so you know like be careful what comes forward when it comes to salaries it comes to salaries um so you know I I just I feel like you

all are Wizards and but I don't know how you know at stretching a dollar but I don't know how you'd stretch any further than what you're already doing so to me the request seems in line and it seems reasonable despite the fact that it's a 23 increase you know I'm not sure the last time you had an increase so not not to this this amount um I think for us you know honestly depending on um what you all are able to do will be what we're able to do in providing services to the community because of course taking care of the animals in the shelter is what we're contracted to do um but um if we have to cut anything it's going to be cutting things to people who have the least amount of resources it'll be cutting those things as in food pantry Redemption assistance spay neuter assistance um as far as our as our staff I just definitely want to say is that yes we are a contract um and there hasn't been RFP out in 30

95 an hour so um like I said I definitely appreciate

you all I know 23 is really high um our board really thought about it when they asked me to make the request because believe me I never want to be in the seat but they felt like it was needed with what's going on in Durham County at the moment this is the sole source of services it seems like to turn anyway it just feels like a I'm in favor I'm in favor of finding this money if we need to add it to the ad to delete list that would be what I would so just have a couple of questions I mean um the the 20 I'm not there yet the 10 that uh commissioner Jacobs mentioned

um sounds reasonable I still think we don't have enough information enough data from from you to Warrant the 20 percent um and I'd like to hear more from staff to find out what warrants the 20 because that's a huge increase from what it was that you're asking for um the other question is is around hours how many hours that are being are you sure have your hours shifted from covet till now there's there's just a few questions that I would like to get answers for before we move on this and I know we're not making the decisions today so I'd like for our staff to work on getting us the information before we make any

decisions about whether it's 10 or 20 percent okay so would you work yeah and what I will say is we would really like and I see um attorney Lovelace getting up because the sheriff's office staff I know has been working with them in reviewing this request to get to what you were asking about and so if you have an update on how that process has gone and with the status manager sold if you can get us the questions um compile that list to us we can I know the goal is to have our budget in place the county budget in place I think next week possibly but we can probably get that to you in 24 to 48 hours Captain Manning who's here from Animal Services we've been working with APS and looking at this proposal um for months now so we already have the historical data and we have the budget proposals from previous years and so we can get you additional information

um the budget has increased every year since 2012. um I think David labar calculated it since 2012 it's been about a 97 increase when we first took over oversight the budget was about 570 000 um so we can get you more information um and we can get that to you relatively quickly so if you get those questions to us later today once you finish with the budget work session we'll try to have it to you close the business tomorrow so we don't delay the budget process right yeah yeah it worked yeah all right any other questions concerns if we I'm just wondering like if we get the responses end of day tomorrow when will our board we won't have another time to discuss before the budget so then how will our yeah our um yeah we've got a we've got another we don't have another meeting and what I know we had a date reserved for tomorrow

but we decided we weren't going to use that date but what I can do is just reach out to you all individually um yeah find out where you are and how you would like I think we're going to need to discuss this later when we talk about the add delete list yeah we're gonna we're gonna have to because we've got some time for the elderly lift it's supposed to have 45 minutes on that one this afternoon so um just one additional thing typically and traditionally the aps contract comes before the board for approval each year some years is June I think last year it might have been August so if you want to set an amount and then look at doing an increase early next year because the contract approval will not come before you until probably August at this point so if additional time is needed that is an option because the contract will still have to come before you due to the amount of money that's involved so what I would say in past years when the contract was approved late it may be

two or three months before Durham before the shelter gets a service fee which APS does have to cover those months what this mean if our contract did not get voted on we would still receive a service fee for at least where we currently are because that does become a hardship for the organization to fund all the shelter without any support while that contract is getting voted on I hear you all trying to assess time let me give you three options okay number one options you can decide today on the ad delete list up to two hundred and one thousand dollars more some difference second option is you can make a decision amongst yourselves and then just have it let us know and we'll put it in the budget for the approval on the 12th this one item so it wouldn't be an ad delete but it

gives us an extra week to get some question answered and some sort of coherent number to be a part of the budget ordinance you approve on the 12th third thing is exactly what was just discussed you can wait till the contract comes up and assuming you're in agreement at that point budget in a certain amount and if it's additional funding needed we would do a budget amendment to then increase it however much up to two hundred and one thousand dollar request trying not to disprove the contract so you wouldn't have any slowdown of money so you have three options today the 12th or sometime when you approve the contract in the next month or two got you thanks for that information Keith okay does that work for the board and I okay okay so if is it anything else with this conversation if not we'll move on I think I'll I mean we can touch base offline about this manager as well when we send the questions uh to the Sheriff's Department I think uh if we

can if the conversation around the budget timelines can also be added of what dates the aps has to submit their budget versus what dates we require the sheriff's department to submit budget to us so that way we can try to get those lined up I know this meeting is about the end but I do want to ask answer one question that you asked um commissioner Howerton you said you did our hours change due to covet ours have not changed the sheriff's department is asking that we're open we need to speak in the mic please um commissioner Howerton I'm sorry you asked if our hours have changed due to covid and I just wanted to say our hours have not changed but the sheriff's department is asking us to be open more hours and more days potentially that is their current request that is what we're discussing because I thought that I'd heard that but I hadn't heard a response from about it that you're being asked to open more hours rather than less hours we're being

asked we're being asked to be open more hours that is correct okay so with that or the same amount of money correct because that means more staff um if you all weren't forwarded the information I can forward it to you yeah that yeah that would be one question if we if you're going to stay open more hours what does it mean for staff and what would be the cost of hiring more staff to be over more hours so one of the um questions that came up during the T and VR discussion was reducing the whole time from five days to 72 hours and we've had some ongoing discussions about what that means but Durham is in the middle of the triangle we know how traffic is and so one of the things just speaking generally is like well if you come home and your dog is not home the shelter is closed at five and they don't open until after work hours begin for

someone you know so having that extra time for someone to a be able to get to the shelter and see if their dog is there or their cat or whatever it is so we were looking at those issues and shafanda has looked at other counties and things like that and one of the things we did say in the re in his ongoing discussion and they've been meeting with Captain Manning but I did ask through uh Captain Manning and in that discussion that if it's going to cost more money to be open those hours get us a proposal on what that looks like so no we're not asking them to do it for the same amount of money but we are asking for some evening hours or some flexibility there so our residents to be able to redeem their animals and that sort of thing or to get information or to surrender an animal we have some hours that folks who don't get home to six or seven o'clock they go to work at eight in the morning they're able to get to the shelter during the week and not necessarily on the weekends so that's but it's an ongoing discussion

and I think APS also had some issues they wanted to address and so what we agreed to do was this fall it's an ongoing discussion and we're looking at those shelter operations and if we're required to do an RFP that may be something that we include in there so we can have a better understanding of what it would cost to run a shelter in the county for our residents that meets expectations quality of life quality of life for animals and that sort of thing so it's an ongoing discussion all right all right thank you anything else for you well I think I mean certainly if we're going to expand and that makes total sense if we're going to expand the services it's going to cost more money and that's why I was asking for the benchmarking date I know that could take some time but an understanding what are other counties provide in terms of hours but also the funding goes hand in hand but you know I I want to be very clear

personally that um you know I really hope that people can work together on this I think it's very important because we're we're talking about um again I think it's very clear the benefits that we get from partnering with the APS and we have certain Partners in our community like urban ministries who runs our shelter Durham senior serum Center for Senior Life who runs our senior center we have some very strong long-standing Partnerships that are not the same as service contracts that we that we do it's it's a very different relationship and in all of those three we benefit from a lot of community support and a lot of frankly free benefits from volunteer labor and also donations that frankly the county is not having to pay for so so I think you hear from this board that we so we are very supportive we are just

asking for to get some questions answered and to know which direction we need to go so so thank you so much for your presentation and we're going to have more conversation in a little while thank you you're welcome all right the next conversation is the stipends for appointees to boards and commissions yes ma'am good afternoon all right good afternoon chair Howard saying Vice chair Jacobs Commissioners Madam manager attorney Andrews we are going to discuss the boards of commission stipends um and I will like to start by thanking the

clerk Monica Wallace and her team for providing a lot of the information that you'll see in this presentation and doing quite a bit of the let work and researching what our peers are doing I'll start off with an overview to let you know there are 41 boards to which Durham County makes appointments there are additional boards that you all are appointed to but you make appointments to approximately 41 boards and there are about 200 residents that you make appointments to on these boards uh in reviewing all of the bylaws for these boards seven of them do not permit compensation for members and we have those listed here if we remove that number of residents appointed to those boards you are only appointing 160 residents who may be considered in the compensation and stipend program we also do hold every year a volunteer annual appreciation program where our volunteers are honored acknowledged and given gifts

this is our current stipend program for some of our boards and commissions you'll see adult care home Community advisory committee they receive mileage reimbursement for their visits they don't receive a monthly or a regular stipend the ABC Board receives regular stipends you just approved an increase in those stipends but those payments are made from the ABC Board that does not come out of this pool that we'll be discussing similarly the Board of Elections there are stipends that have were recently approved for them increases and that is paid by the department that has not come out of the allotment that we're discussing today we do pay jury commission and then we again mileage reimbursement for a nursing home Community advisory committee and women's commission collectively they receive 500 a year for events and activities uh not to be confused with jury commission they received 600 a year to be divided among their members whereas women's commission theirs is not for the members it is for the activities of that

board here's some um here's some details we found about some of our peer counties and stipends that they provide none of those counties offer across-the-board stipends so there aren't any who say every committee receives this amount we don't have that in any of our peers what we do have similarly to us is that our the ABC boards and Boe boards receive larger stipends based on their bylaws on average we see that uh Mecklenburg averages about 75 dollars per month for the boards that they do give stipends to in Wake County averages about 25 dollars per meeting for the ones that they do give stipends to um so this conversation started in part as far as I'm aware with the conversation around the Durham city and they're stipend program the day enacted and so there's a hyperlink here in this

presentation to the their stipend program and it details their recycling program there in that first bullet stipends our intended to offset related expenses to babysitting parking transportation and meals and participants in the city program must opt in so you must say yes I want to opt in I want to receive the stipends stipends are fifty dollars per meeting and they're offered to All City appointees who opt into the program they receive disbursement every six months they have approximately 40 participants in their program and they have 28 boards with 23 offering a stipend because like us they have some boards that per their bylaws are not eligible for compensation the estimated yearly stipend amount is placed in the clerk's budget and is dispersed by the clerk they they plan fifty thousand dollars annually for their program they also host the annual volunteer appreciation program with gifts for their volunteers so our recommendation is that we also

create a stipend program I think based on some of the conversations that you all have had there's been some disparity between our appointees and the city appointees and so we'd like to look at also holding a stipend program we are also recommending the 50 stipends to eligible County appointees who opt into the siphon program we are noting that County employees are not eligible for the stipend program many of the County employees who are appointed to those Boards of commissions is a part of their work we're also recommending that a difference to the city program is that we offer a 25 stipend program for virtual meetings the cities is for meetings they don't designate between virtual or in person we like to make that actually offer that program to Virtual meetings because we understand this could offset the cost of internet and if we are looking to expand our membership and really reach out to those who may be in disadvantaged communities that may not have access to Internet this might help offset that

we recommend an additional 100 000 annually to the clerk's budget to cover this program looking at we have twice as many participants and twice as many boards and commissions as the city we made we are estimating that we might need about twice as much to cover annually we'd also like to look at dispersing our stipends quarterly from the clerk's office instead of every six months the way the city does if you are looking to offset some of the child care expenses and travel expenses every six months may not be as effective as doing something quarterly I have had discussions with the clerk and her team and they do think that that is doable we also discuss monthly but we think that might impose another hardship on their team and having to do those monthly payments but quarterly is manageable and we will continue to host the annual volunteer appreciation program for all employ appointees which would include that annual gift and that is our recommendation next steps

oh our next steps would be that I believe this is currently on the add delete list if I'm not if I'm correct it's currently on the add delete list so it'd be something that you consider as part of that list okay all right so okay commissioner alone thank you Shannon I'd just like to say I am seeing a trend with your presentations of you know you provide us with the overview of what it is now and what's being processed I really really appreciate that I have been listening to the questions that you have after presentation so I'd like to give the context up front so I can kind of offset as many of those questions that may be coming I appreciate it thank you ready I am [Music] I am that we're looking into doing this because I think it's also been like an equity issue of like some of our joint boards even there are some joint boards where the city appointees are receiving stipends and our County members aren't right um so I'm glad that we're finally

addressing this uh do we know so the City if they do the 50 stipends is theirs just across the board in person or virtual We Believe theirs is across the board in person or virtual they don't make a distinction between the two yes can we just get clarification from the city then like how many of our joint boards are still meeting virtually versus in person because then if there's some joint boards where we're giving 25 and then the city's giving 50. that's a great we'll do then we'll get that information from the city and then yeah actually no that's it so uh just one thing the there is one board that the city it's a border committee it's a budget budget particip was it participate participatory budgeting I understand they get like 250 a month

is that a joint that we have County appointees that's not one of our that doesn't sound like one of our voices just the just that one that program so they get uh a whole lot more I would tell you that's a lot of work that participates sorry budgeting they have to give you a lot of proposals they have to go out into the community and do a lot of work so Madam chair like the ABC Board and like the Boe board that they wouldn't receive the fifty dollars because they already in their bylaws they receive something different that is probably one of their boards that receives something different because some of the boards do right go ahead commissioner Carter yeah just thank you so much great information and a wonderful presentation straight to the point um I brought this forward because one of the Committees I'm assigned to has this issue of the the discrepancy between what with the county appointees were receiving and it came up right and it was becoming an issue and so um you know I definitely am in favor of it and I would even go so far as to say

the the boards that are joint I just think our stipend should be the same okay you know across that's my opinion what everybody else thinks but um just to be consistent that was what I was hoping for it was consistency so anyway otherwise thank you for this recommendation I think it's really good thank you I will also note that some of our boards that do that they're bylaws do not allow for the stipend some of those are the same joint boards that for the city do not allow with stipend so there is some consistency in there that we wouldn't be paying one where they don't because it's in their bylaws I imagine that once we've also adopted a program should you move in this direction that there may be some um boards that will look at revising some of their bylaws okay I think it's great um I I so appreciate you doing this we've talked about it for a while so it's great to see the numbers and the other question I have is about the virtual meetings the 25 stipend for the virtual meetings is

that um are there any restrictions on that and what I mean by that are does that mean somebody just sign on and sign off so the um the way we account the way we do accounting of attendance it comes from who the person who clerks to that committee they send their meeting statements to the clerk's office and so we wouldn't monitor when you engage when you disengaged we would go by the attendance roster that was forwarded to the clerks team so there may be an option there may be some some of that but we wouldn't we wouldn't manage that we would if you were noted as being being an attendee because you could also have an issue that could have prevented you maybe you lost Wi-Fi and if the whole meeting was virtual yeah so we wouldn't we wouldn't manage that so I guess the the it's going to be a lot of work on the the clerks in monitoring the solar system and it's a good thing that you're

getting that our clerk is getting a new another person that can help out so that's going to be great yeah because I think this is going to be a lot of work forgot to say thanks to our clerks for doing the legwork and the research yes thank you absolutely thank you anything else that is up you have a question yes so Shannon on my notes Here my my questions are benchmarking policy City rationale and to uh commissioner alam's point you you answered all of those in in your presentation so thank you I really appreciate it yeah um yeah I could you discuss a little bit about what what is because I've you know I like the fact that there is um a rationale and kind of like people being eligible um you know in terms of some accountability but

what is the um when people apply for it what will be kind of the what's considered like makes you eligible to be reimbursed or get a stipend that's a great question we I'll go back to Clinton I'll go back to the city of Durham their current program there isn't a rule for eligibility but once you're appointed you can opt in so you would decide as the appointee if I need the stipend to offset Transportation or if I needed to offset um a babysitter or or Internet you would make that decision no points he would make that decision again that's not something that we'd govern or that we'd manage we'd allow the appointee to make that decision and so there isn't we we don't recommend an eligibility requirement um right now they have about 50 percent of their appointees opt into the program and so we suspect that we'd be somewhere along those lines as well okay do they actually explain like this stipend

program is to compensate you for and then listing those those things they do in their appointment letter they give an explanation of the stipend program and then give you um details on how you can opt into their program so they put that in their appointment letter which is something that we would look at adding to our appointment letters as well could this be approved all right I think that's great to provide that context and then let people self govern right um govern and and we'll see who how many people you know what the need is because it sounds like there are only 40 participants in the city program they're probably a lot of people who aren't applying who've just you know decided they don't they don't need them right there's other people do so I I like that and thank you so much thank you no other questions nothing else for you thank you so much for your work all right our next conversation is the

CIP General discussion and no my paper my paper says CIP that's what that's what my paper says she was trying to diss y'all she was trying to just she's trying to Dish y'all and Keith I will say I did speak with Perry a little earlier I know we're doing a kind of a generic overview of it but I did want him to elaborate a little bit on the animal services building that's in the CIP so that this board would understand what that entails all right good afternoon Commissioners we're going to have a very high overview of the CIP

largely because we're going to do a uh buying biennial I guess every two year update this summer and fall hopefully coming back in Winter either late 2023 or very early 24 with a manager's recommended CIP that will hopefully answer a lot of questions comprehensively there may be as Dr soell noted some specific questions today and we have experts on either side of me to help answer those questions and with that I'll get started with the review uh the discussion topics largely are going to be around the CIP process debt affordability is always a major issue any individual Capital project discussion and questions you all might have and then a rough draft timeline of what happens next why Capital Improvement plan always we have to we normally look out 10 years some Capital Improvement plans or five years ours is ten years we have enough capital projects and enough high dollar items that we need to look out that far we do a CIP because we understand there's

potential pressure of capital projects that relate to the annual budget a perfect example might be a new animal shelter if it's bigger you better believe APS or whoever runs that is going to come back and ask for more annual operating dollars to run a bigger animal shelter so that's how it always can affect annual budgets there's timing of complicated projects that we have to take into account especially as we look out 10 years one of the main and most important things is our ability to support Capital needs in a financially prudent manner not only does that mean how do we annually pay for debt service related to capital projects but how do we keep our bond rating at AAA so those those sorts of things are extremely important and are fleshed out and thought through as part of the CIP process cfp responds to unexpected issues and needs and actually we have a slide dedicated to that because normally we do this every two years but the world doesn't stop and wait for us during those two years so there are capital projects that weren't part of the CIP

that become part of the discussion and we have to talk about some of those we have to weigh the cost to Citizens versus value to Citizens and then ultimately we have to figure out how to pay for this over time steps involved with capital planning usually we start with a facility needs assessment the last one we had was 20 20 22 okay so we have an updated facility assessment that sort of gives the backbone to CRP requests that come from departments what Perry gets is not everything that's not internal to departments like our is T department has heavy duty request Perry's facility needs assessment is exactly what it says County facility needs which is different we just all I'm saying is we have more things than just that as part of the CIP then we go through the process of prioritizing and sequencing projects payments and when they need to come online over 10 years then after we do that prioritization and sequencing then we figure out what the cash flow is to

pay for projects 10 15 20 30 projects over 10 years ultimately after we get the cash flow projections we then evaluate the affordability what does affordability mean how much are you willing to raise the price property tax rate to pay for annual Debt Service you can you can buy everything at once and raise the tax rate 10 cents and have have potential blowback from that or we can spread projects out and pay for it over time like most people do to try to balance out cost versus affordability and then we update the capital Improvement plan every two years next steps August through December we're going to review the facility master plan to determine if further vetting of existing and new projects are required will reevaluate project placement in the CIP there are some projects we have in the CIP that we've thought were going to start that haven't started yet that need to be reprioritized and reevaluated perfect the example is the DSs building beside us there's some other things taking a little longer with some of our CIP projects like our Hana system we're

going to we've talked you've heard about replacing the Erp system that was planned to start a little bit earlier we're still on on the time frame but just a little bit later anyway we have to move all of those things around and then see how it trickles out in terms of cost and when Durham County and DPS update cash flow projections rate based on shovel Readiness this is a huge deal see Durham excuse me DPS projects are by far the biggest part of our CIP and they are con those uh projects are constantly in flux no different than ours in terms of pricing school project costs are changing daily in fact schools like DSA have gone up massively in cost we're looking at on the average between the two high schools being requested by DPS at 200 million dollars each which is astounding that's a we're getting near a quarter of a billion dollars for a single high school those are massive numbers point being they're increasing as are all their other school requests elementary schools middle schools we always after we get all this

information and we mix it out and we time we sequence it we time it we run our cash flow then we sit down with Doug Carter and Associates or whoever our financial advisor will be at that time and review that cash flow to make sure we meet our financial standards in AAA Claudia so you grab the microfundage internal and external review process stop for a minute go ahead she was about to say something get over there we're going through that right now we have three different financings that um we're doing um I'm sorry right now we're going through that so in between arpa my other high priority project is our preparation for some upcoming financing and to Keith's point is tricky because projects can get costly and so we have to plan what does it look like 36 months from now and then react accordingly so we you'll hear more about that in upcoming months

part of what we're going to have to do is clarify material project budget changes from 22 to 23 a number of projects and have increased significantly not over the last not only over the last year but over the last several years so there are a lot of existing projects I'm going to have to go back during the summer and fall and ask Department it's the pricing still the same Perry is not my best friend in that respect because he calls me consistently goes I'm sorry to tell you Keith said project has increased and I grind my teeth and we grind our teeth together and then we move on but it's a regular occurrence we've got to evaluate the impact of the proposed CIP on expanded operating budget needs this is a very real thing as we get bigger buildings as we take on more buildings I think in our in our budget we talked about taking on seven new buildings you don't take on the shops at Hope Valley without having increased annual operating costs related to running said building and that's one example you don't buy Boys and Girls Club Building without future annual operating costs you don't

build a new animal shelter potentially or replace someone or expand one without those costs so that's what we mean by always part of the whole process is how are some of these projects going to put pressure on our annual operating budget and then we conduct sensitivity analysis and that's how we these are all the variables on the financial side that can affect what my what our payment is and what I mean by that there's there's the initial cost of a project the timing of a project but at the time we issue debt what are the interest rates what are the revenue projections I have for Durham County at that time I say this half-jokingly part of the budget's job budget process to play with Monopoly money we're simply guessing next year's Revenue Source but it gets even harder to guess four years out and five years out and there's so many variables that all work together the cost of the project five years out the the cost of borrowing debt five years out what are our Revenue what's our

Revenue growth going to be five years out all that sensitivity analysis is something we run with our financial advisor and amongst ourselves are we conservative enough are we aggressive enough this is our tentative plan this may be the most important slides you see these are the projects that have some questions about them ongoing discussions we know the Board of Elections space is currently we're working very hard and very diligently under a pretty tight time frame to get a Board of Elections office at the shops at Hope Valley we have money budgeted for that I don't think that any fundamental changes are happening there in terms of cost or planning timing that has to happen sooner rather than later the sheriff's training facility I have highlighted and read those are projects where the dollar amount has increased from when we originally put it it's in the CIP it hasn't been presented to you all yet you agree to these things but some of the costs are increasing Emergency Operating Center Operation Center costs are increasing animal shelter you obviously know about and I

think Perry may have sent you some updated information and there may be questions about that DSS Maine Renewable Energy and DPS some new projects that are very much a part of the CIP that haven't that weren't raised at the last CIP development process was a Fleet Maintenance and Warehouse facility that's not going to be a it's not going to be a small dollar project but it's it's new Sheriff's Office Annex that is in the RTP there have been discussions about it doesn't mean we have to agree to it but it's out there as a potential project I don't remember the RTP folks coming in last week and talking to you all about a tax rate increase for the RTP District part of that was to support some Public Safety Services out there there may be some discussions amongst all involved about what a Sheriff's Office Annex should be or should cost out there but it's something we have to take into account some new discussions that haven't even been in front of the board nor have been in front of me that are not even part of the CIP are 1204 east club and 808 East

Pettigrew Street I forget exactly what this Boys and Girls Club there you go because we may not be done upfitting a building that we already paid for the Lincoln Community Health good afternoon Commissioners 1204 East Club is the cjrc detox transition house that's a project that cjrc put in the um last year's budget request for arpa funding but we've done some conceptual analysis on that and we can share more information later we had five hundred thousand dollars budgeted in the operating budget to update that project but due to some classification issues with the state or whatever rules that Perry deals with the cost of that project has increased to the point where it may need to be a CIP project rather than just something in an operating budget wow listen this is something we had considered for arpa but the way we handle all of these we put it on our list as capital so

um you'll see even some of the Enterprise fund related projects there may be um arpa dollars that are identified to help support we set aside in our plan for wastewater treatment um or Enterprise fund related in in the plan there's four million dollars set aside to support water sewer capital projects so from our accounting of all the list we we start with them on on the within the plan and then match up the funding source commissioner Alam thank you I didn't want to interject roll Keith you're on a roll um on the ongoing discussion on the red ones can you just clarify are those increases due to I'm assuming part of it is due to the increase in cost of materials but is any of it due to increase in scope a combination of items and some and you

know if you may recall when I talked about this a lot a couple of days ago I talked about how long the library was on the list it was on the list before I left in 1997. I left in 2000 and it didn't actually come to fruition until a few years ago so some some may be on the list for a while and the prices keep going up so keep it in context as you see the the different colors can if there are any that are changes in scope can we just receive like what oh yeah we would definitely we'll give you you'll have more information than you can imagine thank you so we were going through some of the blue did you get a enough and thank you and please tell me if I need to slow down I am trying to move through this at a quick pace the blues the blues are new projects to the CIP that aren't in the CIP at all the reds are projects that are in the

CIP but they have changed in price those are the two things that the black ones are in the CIP just sort of there they were in the CIP two years ago when you reviewed it okay maybe should have put a color key code on the slide but hopefully the another one is the Lincoln Community Health Center and I think we have budgeted money in this 2324 budget to do some pre-development process basically to assess what they need to do but be sure and believe that that assessment is going to turn around and come back probably with a multi-million dollar request from the county to support some sort of capital related issue add delete list ma'am it's on the add delete list the the fund the pre-planning the pre-development funding let me just say that that is that is a joint should be a joint um Duke Health System Durham County project whatever happens so we need to make sure that's the

context the shops at Hope Valley we're not done assessing what needs to be done to prep a number of those spaces for incoming County offices or County departments so that will be ongoing and then another very potentially expensive one is the 2050 building performance mandate I know we talked about renewable energy over on on the other side but this may be a version of that how do we prep our buildings for future am I am I correct in that Perry sort of Energy savings and meeting some of the guidelines and goals that we hope to achieve that wasn't in the budget two years ago renewable energy was but this is going to the renewable energy was a larger overarching plan these are getting into more specific direct steps what to do with buildings the Enterprise fund you can see three new pump station projects that have been added since the CIP was approved two years ago and discussed two years ago those are not

cheap projects this is those are Enterprise fund projects they are supported with fees to the users of the system but those fees will probably grow up grow substantially to make The Debt Service payment for those types of projects all right any questions about what you see up here before I move on what the new admin building what are we doing to the new admin that is for the way that is a new admin building down where the triangle wastewater treatment plant is gotcha all right for the Enterprise fund just so you know if you're curious and you want to catch up on the CIP we have a power bi version of it up under the budget Department website for the county if you go there and you select on Capital Improvement plan documents that top link June 22 updated Capital Improvement plan will give you the budgeted numbers for all the projects we have in the CIP remember the CIP is a plan it is not actuality it is hopeful

so you might see some projects like DSS that were funded in the CIP two or three years ago but you know we haven't done anything that's because it was a plan two years ago and we still haven't moved them we haven't made a decision as a group yet what exactly to do and where so plan but the information is there just an idea of how the money is distributed along the the the um the Strategic plan that we've had in place for the last couple of years it's largely in goal one that's focused largely on Durham County projects I won't go over this you can look at this it's in the slides what I do want you to notice most of the spending of this CRP is largely front end in the first five years rather than the next five years that's normal for most of our cips we know what's going to happen a little bit more clearly in the next five years then we do the second five years so we're always a little more heavily oriented towards the first five years why is 22 23 so big does anyone care to take a

9 million dollars hunt ma'am billion Excuse me yes billion most of that is in uh I is in um Durham public schools by far next biggest would probably be community colleges and then progressively down through it projects

you see are significant and it's important we run on technology and we have to keep upgrading that technology through a number of areas we also have significant projects in water and sewer but that's largely Enterprise fund it is all Enterprise fund it's not going to be paid for with general fund dollars again this is what we're going to be updating this is sort of the current CIP recognizing that we haven't included a bunch of the blue projects on pre on that other page remember the new projects so there's a lot more to change about this yes ma'am Sheriff I don't think I would have to based on the numbers I would have to look and see where it is it might be under the sheriff I think we're spending more than that yes ma'am you're right we have it it's 27 million David do you have enough under engineering

8 but that's a perfect example Perry is already sent out to us updates and I'm sure there'll be some questions about that that project was at 30 million two years ago it's now estimated to be 45 to 50 million or more depending on what everyone decides and agrees upon that's 15 to 20 million more that's not in our CIP that we would have to find funding for that was one of the red projects just one 2026 is the planned next general obligation Bond reference yeah the timing of it needs to coincide with our spin level with the current yeah and so um you know at one point we looked at possibly 2024 but it's too early we would not have spent a significant amount and as we go

for reviews to determine the viability of doing a referendum we would get a lot of pushback potentially on on that and but 2026 is where we landed with the most recent version so we did explore with our fa that scenario we have the capacity and the ability to use Labs as an option for projects that are pressing but they are also pros and cons with that as well but we've gotten such great rates because of our solid fiscal structure so we will feel comfortable with that approach as well Claudia is there a maximum amount of limited obligation bonds we can use a dollar amount I mean the challenge is you have to pledge it search for geo bonds there is a Max well illuminum mitigation bonds is the

challenge you have to basically pledge an asset for General obligation part you're taking it to the voters and I don't know and so um it's our asset value and I know we worked with the schools with the some recent um and so we just have to be creative but it but when we take away our lives capacity for we want to build an animal shelter that is larger and all these other priorities you have to keep in the Forefront you're doing other big ticket items whether it's for the schools or Durham times in any college what does that mix do down the road and so it's a very coordinated effort it I think financially in our if you look in our act for and I think I actually

have it on The Debt Service page in the budget document there's a maximum amount of debt we can incur in the 2 billion plus range far above what we have to Claudia's Point what type of debt matters if you were willing to put everything on the general obligation Bond and let voters approve it you could you could have a lot of debt without any assets as the backing because the voters are backing property taxing capability that's what makes General obligation bonds so attractive but we don't normally put things like an animal shelter on a general obligation Bond reference we don't put jails or Detention Center we don't think they will pass to that end when you don't put it on General obligation bonds you are largely left with limited obligation bonds which have to usually have an asset the problem is we don't have a whole lot of assets that aren't already one previous lobs finances we don't have unlimited Assets in fact for the schools when we do lives with them we have to work with

agreements to put some of the schools stuff as an asset to a Billet to use lobs until we do another Geo Bond referendum as a general rule putting as much as possible on a Geo Bond referendum works better as long as it gets approved yeah one question about the Emergency Services what's happening with the fire station we don't go ahead Perry Where Are You Gonna we don't normally do fire stations are you talking about EMS stations with fire stations yes and asked so many times about that so in the information uh that Keith mentioned earlier you'll see Emergency Operations Services um those are the three projects that we classified as sort of high priority and that is the uh all of them are co-locations of course fire and EMS code locations but we have the one that's

recognized as far east which is the Kemp Road yes uh development that you guys are very interested in we also have another one at MLK both of those Kemp Road and MLK would be cited on city-owned property so we've been working with them for months sort of trying to figure out the timing and when this would work best to fit both of our cips and our operations plans the other project is the Duke West site and so those are the three fire slash EMS co-locations that are considered under operations is there anything planned for leedsville Road out in that area we already have the the new station yeah we have one is there another it's not is there another one planned for that area the Kemp Road will sort of serve the area just north of the Leesville area where all the development is going okay so that's why that's a priority got it yes ma'am so I'd have an answer when people ask because they Kemp Road Unity is

limp Road that's the one that uh everybody wants and needs yes ma'am okay thanks this graph I hope it's not overwhelming what I want you to get from this graph is sort of to show the top part of the graph shows the growth in debt we're taking on over the next 10 years the green debt is new debt I mean we're always paying off old debt but we're taking on new debt and what what you've noticed more than anything else is we're taking on a lot of new debt we're growing from our teenage years in Durham County we're all we're growing into adulthood here with an almost billion dollar annual budget coming sooner rather than later thank you the bottom part of that graph shows you the funding source necessary to pay for this Remember by board policy you all have said well this board set way back multiple decades ago you a lot article 40 and 42 sales tax you a lot occupancy tax and then you also use dedicated

property tax to pay for annual Debt Service what I want you to see is how much you're starting to lean on property property tax to start paying for this increasing debt what I also want you to know is property tax you have control over sales tax you do not have control over I'm expecting growth in sales tax but if we were to have a recession or slow down in our economy that might mean changes in how much we would have to support our annual Debt Service with additional property tax instead so there is some variability in our Revenue sources particularly when we look out into the future the point being is for our ability to take on future debt we're largely going to have to use growth in property tax revenue which means a property tax rate increase in that little red line you see down at the bottom that is the current CIP that's without additional costs for animal shelter or whatever other choices

61 in related property tax

rate for Capital related Debt Service but that's without considering any of these new projects that's with a great uh environment for Revenue collection if those numbers change and they might then these property tax rate changes may change for the Better or For Worse let's not forget they have changed for the better you all told the voters we told the voters a year ago a year and a half that it might be a two and a half cent or two cent tax rate increase related to the general obligation bonds because revenues have done so well sales tax in particular we only had to do one and a half cents so far yes ma'am and we we go back to our advantage of our disadvantage and we we will come to the board in a couple of weeks to do a um transfer from our Capital Finance fund fund balance to our debt service fund balance so that we can move those dollars into the reserve

that'll be on your 26th meeting but just wanted to point that out from a fund balance perspective it's is being moved into that fund from a sensitivity analysis I know I talked a little bit about it where we talked about the um that the transit issue we use the same approach when looking at that model and that's why we said hey there needed to be some type of cushion in that way so it's the same concept but has served the community well and we're hoping that we continue to grow so that uh it will be a significant move of fund balance from One Fund to the another but it is somewhat of a technical issue from a from a calculation don't let the numbers scare you it's not doing anything with the money it's just moving it from one pot and acknowledging it in another pot yes ma'am so along those lines because we are you know fiscally prudent and we

9 it was it was reduced somewhat we often just push it out but

it's I don't see it getting lower as the scope and scale and the size of our CIP grows the amount of fund balance we need to carry as an offsetting sort of pressure release number needs to grow in size as well and I think that's part of what's Happening Here we have a healthy fund balance related to Debt Service but we also use it to not have to go up three and five and six cents or in any one year and as Claudia said with whatever's coming down the pike in the next six months as we update the CIP I'm concerned that we may need to apply fund balance to try to either pay Straight Cash for some things or minimize some of the fluctuation out in future years but it's very possible we may see a five cent increase property tax rate increase needed over the next 10 years that's guessing I'll be quiet that I don't want to freak people out I don't know what that number is going to be well that's where fund balance is going to be applied generously to try to help with

that yes ma'am I will just add that where there are opportunities for us to apply for Grants to cover the cost of some of this we have done that as well so it may be minimal but I can think of I know the Emergency Operations Center we applied for Grant four and then also some of the water and sewer utility projects we apply for grants for as well foreign draft CIP time highlights from July 23 to Winter 24 that could be the early January February of 2024 we'll go through CIP guidelines we'll start communicating with departments and getting them to develop updated CIP requests on existing projects and potential new projects we will then have project discussions after We Gather that information we will show you all some of those projects that are being requested then we will review these projects against the facility master plan come

together with a draft CIP and a draft Capital financing plan which is the other side of that there's the CIP that says this is what we're going to do and this is how much it costs and the cfp is this is how we're going to pay for it over time those two go hand in hand at the board discussions on the draft or the manager's recommended CIP will have financial advisor review of the CIP public discussion and hopefully you will approve the next CIP before we begin in Earnest 24 25 budget development process sometime in early winter 2024. questions yeah I don't see you during public schools on here in terms of updating conversations with them they should have been that was just a typo yeah and you see dtcc twice it should have been DPS okay absolutely they are our biggest they are biggest I have some comments yeah I think but I'll wait till you're done but yeah this would that was the last slide comments

yeah I'm really glad that we're going to really dig in um so first of all when we when we talk to Durham Public Schools I I'm really concerned you know especially we know the Northern High School budget came in we ended up spending a whole lot more than we started out with and now getting into DSA um I personally think I don't want to talk about the new new projects without having a conversation about how their former High School sites get used um you know when we have when we're fiscally constrained and we're asking Durham residents to you know pay higher taxes and we're doing a bond to pay for new schools and we're not also having a conversation about what how those former School sites get used

that's I'm concerned about that those are those are public assets that have been used you know purchased with Durham County dollars and I don't know legally I'm looking at the County Attorney but that's a conver I mean I've brought it up ad nauseam I know people are sick and tired of hearing me bring it up but when you know as we have less and less you know thanks to the state we have so many needs that keep falling on us at the local level level whether it's paying for new schools paying for renovations paying for salaries then we have to look at all of the assets that we have that we have invested in and so I I just hope that we're going to have a conversation we need to have a conversation an analysis of those those that land whether it can be used for some other public use

whether Revenue I mean whatever the they're just that that has to be part of the conversation I know I personally am getting to the point where I'm going to start voting against stuff because people are not talking about this that's how I feel about it I'm really frustrated so I'm just you know I look forward to that in in the future but um you know or even you know when we look at issues around teacher salaries you know we we haven't gone anywhere with the affordable housing issue for for educators or School staff well whatever the question whatever we need to be doing um you know to me that's that's part of the conversation but I I just yeah so and then you know what just how we're we're tracking these projects and things like that but anyway I just want to put that

out there um because especially related to the former Northern School site and then DSA that site to be part and parcel with any you know funding issues with that Ethan will give you five more minutes okay um yes ma'am and then I know we're finding seven new seven new facilities if we could get a list of those um I wasn't sure what they all were um and then I think in this discussion that with a reckoning about when we buy things we also have to think about how we maintain them and then the operational costs and whether we should have some type of analysis because I know we're really good at making the the um saying yes to great opportunities to buy things but

it would be good if we had some policy or decision-making analysis that helps us really have the big picture um because if we keep buying things I mean just like a personal thing right you keep buying stuff but then you can't maintain and take care of what you have and you're not fulfilling obligations like the animal shelter that you said you were going to do I think it gets problematic so I think having a really good framework going forward would be very helpful to us with decision making oh and then one okay I'll wait for the ad delete to this because I was wondering if something like the Lincoln feasibility study could be covered under arpathons anything else for you I I just I see you all writing madly as Wendy talks and and that's great but I

don't feel quite as strongly as she does about you know leaning on the school board for what they're planning to do with all their land I mean I would be happy to ask them you know do they have plans and let us know what plans they have um but I know they're going to need new schools in the future and I I expect that they have some thoughts on how they want to use their land and what they think the highest and best value public value for it is so I you know I just like to defer to their uh to the fact that they are an elected body on that and you know clearly it's their decision I think it's really fair for us to ask what is your decision on these things and maybe that's all you mean Wendy so just to be to make sure I'm clear I heard two things as well the budget office as part of the CIP can very much ask DPS what are you doing with the land that you may be moving from it's a different question entirely to say

we are curious what you're doing with the land for any purpose because the county may have interest in what and that's a that's a higher level discussion than a CIP review just to make that clear absolutely that's right and we talked about before having broader policy conversations because there are other DPS related type policy questions that superintendent and manager would frame or um future discussions and I'm especially in light of recent state Inspections just how we move longer term and yeah and cannot there's something else a totally different subject um has there ever been any strong consideration given to having a smaller Geo bond for green initiatives I see on here renewable energy and performance of buildings you know as cost as drivers of

cost increases going forward and so I think the voters would be excited to approve of the green Bond sort of kind of initiative so I just wanted to ask y'all if you thought about it yeah we did uh when we went through the bond referendum process we we talked about it we actually uh our fa our financial advisor gave Insight um that is an option because we have the instruments because the limited obligation bonds are available for us and we're so solid we get great rates it just depends upon at what level but that is something we can consider but we we did research that it is an option but we've been able to handle thus far those types of expenses through our normal instruments financing oh yes in about the 2015

in general yes and when you look at inflation in general so we know that overall plan is going to go up a percentage plus the new yesterday and also anything around energy that document that I sent out to all the board members you may not have had a chance to look at it yet I would hope that we will get that to Tobin uh and have her go through that because there's an awful lot of money related to that document after meeting with Henry McCoy in DC the other week that we just need someone like Tobin to dive into it to see what resources are there for us so if you would just ask her to do I don't know if you received the document or not I I haven't seen it either Michelle has it Michelle is going to send it out thank you yes yes

yeah this is a different one it's uh I can't remember the numbers um his peers might remember the dollars that from uh energy over that's coming to North Carolina um and I don't know when and I know that it will be the money will go directly to Department of energy and the other thing that we have to do as a staff is look at not just our CIP projects but across our organizations to see what are some definite initiatives we can Implement um to achieve our renewable energy goals what's in our plan and we we haven't done that and so in in order for us to you know put a Geo bond out we really need to know for ourselves how we will spend that money and so that's something that we are working on because we want to make sure we are are really being prudent about

how we spend those dollars we have is it about 30 million in the CIP for I can't remember renewable energy yes I don't know that it's quite that much but that number was based off a spreadsheet it needs to be hardened up significantly right so we need to refine how we plan to to achieve our goals okay are you five minutes up [Laughter] you're not one lesson you can come back to us doing the ADD and deletes if you want to add something else I hate to keep no adding nope folks waiting back there go ahead finish what you're gonna say about the green bonds that is a that is a concept that I I don't know much about I know that are we but are we talking only are we only talking about what the counties doing to its own buildings or are we talking about something that citizens have proposed that's a larger issue and or both

because I don't if it we're talking about something that's as we do things with our own County buildings and schools okay okay but it's still internal to us and I'll defer to Perry and I I would real quick um Tobin is in the process of getting the assessments done for what can be done to All County facilities to bring them up to renewable energy standards and so once we get that document we certainly can further the conversations and get more input from upper management and staff about what else can be done above and beyond that in the timing of everything so we'll certainly follow up on that thank you yes ma'am thank you thank you much but uh all right let's have the Museum of Durham history if you will come up I'm Patrick welcome good afternoon yeah good afternoon okay

I'm sorry um on behalf of the board of directors of the Museum of Durham history and our staff I want to thank the County commission for inviting me today especially commissioner Alam for her board service and chair Howerton for her passport service to the museum we appreciate this body's support and it's always great to see you all at our exhibit openings and public programs I also want to Express gratitude to the commission for your ongoing annual support of the museum which is now at seventy six thousand dollars and your commitment to support our education program I'm here today to discuss a request we are making in addition to that ongoing additional ongoing annual support included in this request is 568 thousand dollars for architectural design and development phases for future Museum of

Durham history concept at 500 West Main Street preparing for this stage of our growth over the next next fiscal year is critical for the Museum's future our process aligns with the cultural road map rail trail mapping with the museum at the trailhead and fulfilling the recommendation of the racial Equity task force for a new Museum of Durham history all projects which identify the museum as a key priority as the museum enters its 10th year of operations we continue to celebrate our achievements and reflect on our accomplishments this past school year thanks to the work of Durham Public School staff our board Vice chair Bettina Umstead and our staff especially our director of education programs and Exhibits Michelle Needham who came on board last summer over the last year 150 faces of traveling exhibit shown there on the left went from Rogers Herr Middle School to Durham School of the Arts to Sherwood giffins Middle School at each

location we work with the Educators on site to conduct program assessment activity development and work to constantly improve its impact based on real-time feedback as part of our current exhibit The Life and Legacy of Floyd B mckissick senior we developed a traveling exhibit called L is for legacy shown on the right where Elementary School age students learn from the adult mckissick children about what it means to be part of a generational Legacy it was first displayed in Durham County Library and then made its way to local elementary schools this is in addition to the numerous field trips and school groups the museum hosts throughout the year most recently chair Howerton and commissioner Alam helped chaperone students from Carrington Middle School on their downtown scavenger hunt starting from the museum just as the buses for Glenn Elementary were pulling up to their trip to the museum we take on a lot but we do it with pride because of its importance an economic impact report by discover Durham estimated the Museum's added

value at over one million dollars we're seeing in-person attendance at fifteen thousand visitors annually post 2020. we need the city in the county to commit to seeing the project for a new Museum through it's a free education resource and should be considered like the public library when it comes to improving Community Health Durham's History Museum should be shared responsibility to the city and county and the organization which operates it so we're proposing that the city and county collaborate to support the design and construction and ongoing operations there are existing examples of such Partnerships such as the Museum of Life and Science a county supported facility on city-owned property and many of the other projects that I referred to earlier the racial Equity task force um the cultural roadmap and the rail trail really rely on the Museum's planning for their for their future designs last August we presented to the Joint City County planning committee about the

need for a new Museum of Durham history one that doesn't Buckle or experiencing diminishing returns of more than 15 school children are in it at once we've grown this Museum in its reach organically now we're poised to take the next step to keep Pace with growth in Durham and fulfill the increasing public demands ass of a free educational resource look at our main library out of town visitors Marvel at the gorgeous multi-purpose facility that does so much more than House books and free computer stations duramites have come to expect the same level of forward-thinking accessibility and engagement when learning about our history and what shapes our community and we believe that the best option is to maintain and develop our site we can confidently say it to the public that we've served it after 10 years we're not just a Plucky little startup but an essential education institution with a proven record of success which is now woven into the cultural fabric of Durham foreign we came away from the meeting last

August with a renewed sense of purpose and a clear eye of what we needed to do next on our end to help elected officials and their staff support this vision we have worked with vines architecture who as far back as 2015 recognized the Museum's potential and develop program studies to map out how the museum could maximize future space and provide what the public needs our next step was to go back to them to estimate the costs for Designing this facility as we went back to Vines for an estimate to estimate the cost of building and designing the facility the design phase is what brings us here today reflected in yellow plus due diligence for another site the two phases at the top plus the due diligence to assess 505 West Chapel Hill Street brings us to the 568 000 reflected in the budget request document you have before you in addition to the architect

fees to jump start the project we include other requests four digital look beyond the windows exhibit panels to replace the existing static physical panels as Durham Skyline changes digital window panels allow us some future proofing of our exhibits two rotating exhibit Gallery touch screens one of which houses our popular touch screen timeline and also 10 salary increases for existing full-time staff an increase of the part-time weekend management staff from 17 an hour to twenty dollars an hour and a full-time permanent development staff position to date we have seen a 35 percent Revenue increase as well as support and marketing event planning Community engagement and donor stewardship from a quarter time roll over the last two years looking ahead fund development becomes even more important as we ramp up for a major new facility in expanding program opportunities

we are requesting city and county to split this delays or lack of funding will set back future Museum planning for at least another year and will also affect the projects such as the road map rail trail road map and rail trail which rely on our input now is the time for us to move forward with downtown's emergence in the last 15 years as a place to live work and be entertained our contributions as one of the very few public free amenities only grows with thousands of new residents moving to Durham every year we are vital to letting them know about our unique complex past and how that has shaped our present and will shape our future communicating that story candidly and with emphasis on our diversity and commitment to equity helps newcomers and long-time duramites alike understand and appreciate what makes Durham special our vibrant Forward Thinking and past appreciating Community deserves a history museum that both tells these stories and is worthy of Durham as we enter the second quarter of the 21st Century

I appreciate your time and would love to hear any questions thank you Patrick for your presentation I'll turn it over to the board members questions comments yes commissioner Jacobs well thank you I appreciate you you coming at the last minute um you know I guess we we talked about this last out of joint City County meeting in August and it does feel frustrating that I feel like we we didn't hold up our end of things I remember that meeting we said that we would start a subcommittee of the city in the county to start hashing out these things and we didn't do that um so I apologize that we we did not hold up our our end of that bargain um and I think we we really need to get going on this I mean we've lost a whole year um and you know it's you're like The

Little Engine That Could right all the stuff that you do the uh with this with the space you have but for where Durham is at now um and the size of our facility is it's embarrassing frankly um my brother is heading the creation of a new Museum right now the borsche mount Museum in Ellenville New York and and thank at Thanksgiving I brought him to see the art museum because I thought it would be a great role model for him and you know because of the Community Focus and telling the story and everything and the mckissick exhibit was there then um and you know he was like well this is great but like this is what you guys have for the for the city of Durham really um you know and and so yeah um so we we really need to get going on this um so I have a few questions

um one is what is the status of the city's position on because the current facility is on City controlled land have you made any progress yet in those conversations with being able to continue being on that specific site we've made inquiries to the city um regarding the status of our land we have uh about two years ago we did a renewal of our current lease for it was 15 years with two five-year options and that was the most they were willing to give us at that time and so since then we have been kind of asking that question of what is the status of this land and our permanence because we all know that without a significant agreement in place to for that site we cannot do any kind of development

design fundraising privately or publicly if there is not so we continue to ask the city so I mean related to that and I'm thrilled that you all are working with vines they did our main library and they're fantastic um you know it's it does beg the question of investing and designing for that site without knowing that we can use that site so I think that we for me personally I would like to and I guess we have a joint City County meeting coming up we do tomorrow I mean not tomorrow the 13th or 13th and it was really important for you to come here because everyone on our board is not on at Joint City County but you know I hope that we can get a process going ASAP with staff with obviously um you know commissioner LOM being on there but I would love to participate as

well um but um where we really get working and get some of these things figured out because um before we invest in doing a design we really need to know what where is the site what where is going to be the site going to be and can it's continue to be there I know the city is also doing an RFP or RFQ related to the oh former police headquarters so what is your knowledge of that right now we've had informal and private discussions uh casual discussions with the city about that site we have not had any kind of formal engagement about our role at that site okay I mean I think one of the things that we may need to do is you kind of refer to it if you go back you called it something but we we may need to do an assessment basically on location and I'm looking at Lou Myers in the back

here Bob and Lou had a conversation with them a while ago to really understand what are the pros and cons of each location what would be the impacts of it being where it is right now versus if it was moved I I think that actually may be one of the first things that we really need to do is understand that and whether you know that's something that we the city in the county could fund that wouldn't be that expensive I believe in the attachments there's also in the budget request final document there is a line correct me if I'm wrong Patrick in there about the test fit study ing yeah correct I believe it's 22 000 um without I mean 22 000 this I mean we can easily the city in the county on that um but I I to me that would be one of the most important first things to do because we need to understand where is

the best location and what are the again the costs the pros and cons and you know of all of that um so and then it seems to me that the design part would really come after that in terms of the request for like you know exhibiting and you know staff salaries those are very minimal um things the development do you not have a development person now we have we contract uh we have a contractor that we work with um a quarter time okay so what is this development manager this would be bringing that person on as a full-time staff member okay full-time rather than part-time okay all right thank you and oh sorry I'm sorry did you want to respond I was just going to say about the um the site at 500 West Main Street really I we're hoping that the the county and the city can get together and and

you know clarify that between the the two entities about you know where is the Museum's permanent home and what is the path so I'm so I'm com I'm complex so first of all it's like Wendy had just mentioned that I if I apologize as well as we dropped out pulling a team together by hoping that you hear that now you and commissioner long that you guys jump in and help to organize the team to do the research that need to be done the mayor and I cannot do it all so we need you guys pulling in to help um so one of the questions that I have related to the the building the old police station so my understanding and help clarify that

that you have said that you don't want that building but to take that take you out of the budget as related to that so help me to understand if that's not true or if it is true I yeah that's what I'm hearing sure um the the Museum's boards position is that we would prefer to stay at 500 West Main Street where we currently are and to develop that site because of its promise proximity to the rail trail and where it's situated downtown in order to make something that is still accessible and free while everything around us it becomes as gentrification becomes a concern um we we really do prefer that site we are not opposed to having a conversation about alternative sites but we have not yet been asked or engaged to formally be a part of any kind of development

process for 505. it's more of been suggestions or have you considered what about and we've always our position's always been sure we're open to having the conversation but we've not been asked formally to be a part of any kind of development you see how the you see how the conversations go they get in the Public Public conversations and when he gets got to me I was like I hadn't heard that from Patrick so let me just ask okay so you and me both so I'll my my colleagues over here got their hands raised so go I'll go to them and then I'll come back go ahead come an alarm yeah thank you so much Patrick Bob Lou for coming out um as Wendy mentioned you know the space that the museum is in right now it's very very tight and when there was the opening event for the mckissick uh exhibit like everyone was cramped in there and that's such a significant event for our

community to be able to have a space that everyone can come and learn about Durham's history and even when we had the field trip groups of the children that we were um me and chair Howerton joined for chaperoning even the children like who were smaller people were still crowded in the space and like for the schools to be able to even see the Museum of History as more of an asset to utilize within their curriculum I think is going to be a great benefit from an expansion and uh I know it's a significant significant amount but it's split between the city hopefully and we are going to have the Joint City County meeting next week where Patrick and is going to be presenting as well um managers well I know you and I spoke about uh the committee That was supposed to be formed Wendy brought that up earlier um if we can when we meet next week at the Joint City County it would be really beneficial if we have that brought up

again and we start forming that and initiating the plan of what is our timeline for this oh how would you like to drive be the chair for that committee I would love to okay here you go looking at our attorney okay I would love to so if we can get Museum of History board members City County officials and start that work um so it doesn't fall off again for another year because we can't miss out um as Wendy mentioned that this work um with the staff development and the salaries you know the living wage this is something we've been talking about with all of our departments is trying to get everyone up to a living wage with the Durham Tech we just talked about it with APS and with the development officer I'd like us it's not a significant part of the budget request but just to take into consideration for the board that that's a position that's going to bring in

funding so even though we're putting money towards it it's going to pay for itself um and hopefully offset future costs of just being able to have someone fully dedicated to Growing the Museum of History's budget that was all my comments yes thank you Patrick a great presentation um and I really have appreciated over the years the depth of expansion of your education components to our to Durham public schools and in particular um I really think you all do a great job with that and so you know we we are about as a County Education that's tends to be our purview just trying to think about way reasons that the request you know makes sense um from from from our sort of legislative and what other roles that we play and what we oversee so to speak um I'm really interested in knowing how because I thought you made a good point

you won't know the answer to this I don't think I'm going to have to ask staff but I thought you made a good point when you lifted up the fact that we have regular Geo bonds you know for the North Carolina Museum of Life and Science another Museum and that you know they provide us a significant amount of funding through fundraising and fees which you all have not gone that route the fee route you're really trying to keep it accessible to everyone really appreciate that too I think that's really part of your ethos that's great um so I guess at some point maybe an internal discussion within the county about what is a what is our decision-making approach around funding requests from non-profit museums you know that have significant Capital needs and um yeah significant Capital needs in particular you know how do we decide which ones we're going to take on and consider funding for those significant

Capital needs and which ones not so much so not now not for to be answered now I'm just you know I just think that's a good question for us to ponder so we can be consistent okay thank you appreciate it so much for coming yeah yeah so this is one that we funded before but we have funded in conjunction with the city uh and that was one of the reasons that we wanted to put it on the agenda for the 13th so that the city and the county can hear the same information and have the conversation uh and it's good for this everybody on this board to hear it today and then we appreciate you coming on 13th to speak with both both boards so they can be in alignment as to what they what what's going to happen I welcome the opportunity thanks you uh you all got a sneak preview of what yeah

next week yeah thank you but I guess there's things to do and that's one thing we're working with the um the project manager on the Beltline to examine how those types of spaces complement each other I do Wonder though you know politics is interesting who you have in office right now and who you can have in office in in 24 can be different people and my my concern is always a different group of people come in that may decide to take the land is and if you don't have a

a guaranteed contract what happens at that point that and that's one been one of our major questions first and foremost to the city because it is their land and so we we've posed that to them before because everybody wants to build a high-rise and if you don't have something that guarantees you the land for a certain number of years what happens if the the next mayor or city council decides they want to take the land and do something else with it I would love for that question to come up next week yeah I would love that I'd love for somebody to answer that because they have it's their land they have a right to do what they want with that so yeah I'd like to know what that answer would be um one last question separate to the um the land and the budget request around the expansion of the facility related to the other items the staff salary

increases and the new positions and the exhibit panels has the city provided any update on where they stand with those ones because I know with the land there's the whole 505 West Chapel Hill but these items we're still working with them on on their decisions on that okay commissioner Jacobs I just want to note the other requests add up to a hundred and eight thousand and that would be splitting it would be 54 000 for each of us if we split it between the city and the county for that and related to the site I mean I I mean that's why I'm looking forward to the subcommittee because that is a very key property and we know from the County's experience we have been very successful at public private Partnerships and you know it's conceivable that we could find a developer who was interested in building

you know housing above the museum and would cover the cost of actually building however you know if it's a two-story Museum or whatever it is on that site it's conceivable that there could be some type of public-private partnership where you know we we get what we get the public need filled and then you know there's housing on top of it or whatever I don't know I'm just throwing that out there but I think there's a lot of there are some opportunities but we're not we can't we need to start working on it to see what they are and the museum wants to be a good partner with the city and the county about our role in our space um we definitely don't want to be petulant about our space and say you know we need a new home but not that one you know we we definitely are open to having that dialogue it's just that's being a part of a formal development process hasn't come up yet at this time

well I know I I understand if that the preference of being where you are is it would be a major preference for me being on at the on Chapel Hill Street it's just kind of totally out of you know people gotta literally walk all the way it's just not a good location when you talk about um I just I would prefer downtown but that's not my decision um I see you want to come on up wait till you get to a microphone before we start talking and say your name Lou Myers see how our attorney helps us out I mean our attorney helps us out good I don't want to get arrested for

violating the regs but anyhow the question of the land one is chicken and egg but you have the answer because you the county built Life and Science on Durham city property so however that deal was done that's the answer to that question now we can reach all that next week but that's a precedent so however that worked in a 15-year lease plus options is nice but they know for us to build I think that they would give us the land or do what they need to do if there's a commitment to build on the site so all I wanted to say is that's not a complicated issue but you have the answer whoever put that deal together for life and Sciences that's the model and the other point I was going to make is that I we need a space but the one thing I

like is maybe one two story but to put 10 stories on there for apartments and all it takes away from that place being a nice respite because when that new tower goes up you got another 32 who knows what's going to come that's going to be a nice respite in this city where you can get some sunlight and see the sky so anyhow yeah we love that site okay I appreciate all right all right thank you Lou anything else all right well thank you for your presentation and I'll see you on the 13th thank you all I appreciate your time all right Madam chair may have a moment so this particular funding item will likely um come separately in our budget I think you all are familiar with that process at this point of how we sometimes do a budget ordinance and then we do separate sort of voting

and hopefully you all know why we are doing that you're talking about for this item for this and ones like it whenever we have the budget we also do separate voting because you all are members of these boards at times and that's part of the new state conflict of interest law so I just wanted it was a good time since this was on the agenda for me to remind you of this is one of those types of items that will be pulled out so commissioner Alan cannot vote on this item because she's a board member that is not a governmental board that is a private not not profit and some of you sit on private non-profit boards right and there's a new state law that was created in Raleigh right that forbids you from doing things like voting and advocating for the budget of those organizations we're going to have a session when you all take a break in July and we're going to talk in much greater detail about what that means because your vote is one part of it

you're speaking is another part of it and I'll explain what speaking is and we'll talk about that a little bit more so so different different issue we have in the 23-24 budget annual funding for the Museum of Durham history of seventy six thousand dollars right what the attorney is speaking of is that at this point commissioner Alam will not vote right on that portion that will be pulled out of the budget ordinance you all five will be a part of the budget ordinance and then we will have a separate vote on the 76 thousand dollars going to the Museum of Durham history that commissioner Alan will not vote on what you heard today is not part of anything related to the budget yet right yeah and I would I would ask that we not make because it would put undue burden and stress on our staff to try to compile what we've heard today and get

it in a place where Commissioners could agree and we work with the city so we would we can consider this after our June 12th we can always consider the funding request but I would ask that we not try to get it in the June 12th budget adoption that would be the additional funding that you just heard about 76 000 for them to run the Museum of Durham history as it's always been run or currently that is in the recommended budget that you will okay except for commissioner alone yeah it's just a matter of getting [Music] having to be to me that's that's a whole different issue that'll be after I budget and just wondering I know it'll add some work is that around the whole item request that they um that the Museum of History just presented I know we also discussed separating the two items of the request of taking out the building items in the remaining 100 something thousand hundred

and eight thousand from ongoing let it all be held off until as you recall we just had a conversation with APS that staff is going to have to help us craft and get ready I I would ask that we not put all of these additional these ones that are just coming before us because staff has not reviewed it APS the sheriff's office staff has been talking about this we have not reviewed this with with the staff so I am just asking and I'm not even asking I'm imploring and begging that you all not put this on our staff at this late date right just to get clarity what Keith said is what is already in the budget right you will vote on that that will be that's in for the traditional money we would vote on that later yes okay yes yes yes thank you so much before we're so close to them before we get started on the add delete list commissioner Carter spoke briefly about non-profits you were very specific but I want to remind the board

it relates to non-profit funding requests that come to you all several years ago we all made the Great Leap away from a large pool of money and a large pool of non-profits being reviewed in a large pool of non-profits coming to you all and asking individually or as groups to a process where we let subject matter experts much like k e Lander and early childhood she has a chunk of non-profit funding she they have a non-profit funding debt they allocate based on the needs that they feel are important we took away the non-profit process by agreement from the board so you wouldn't have the pressure each year to feel like you needed to bring up individual things I only remind you of that because it's been two years and I could feel a little Mission creep on everyone's part as this nonprofits start coming to you all individually and asking I remind you to either stay strong on the current policy that you approved which is letting the subject matter experts or we need to review the

policy and change that as you all see fit but you have a policy that I think you can lean on and say we chose a couple of years ago to move it to those subject matter experts and let them be a part of the discussion yes ma'am agreement with what you're saying because it depoliticizes the decision about who gets non-profit funding that seems like that's more for operations I'm wondering if the same in your opinion applies to Capital requests and think about the museum life and Sciences them as a model and how does that fit it doesn't they are they are a different bird that's a reasonable question the only two non-profits that I know that I think of as non-profits that consistently get Capital requests that bring them to us would be number one by and far is the Museum of Life and Science and they're part of the general obligation Bond referendum and have been a multiple once they they live in a different world I don't even think they're comparable second the only other one that I really know of would be the Museum of Durham history if you think of

the Lincoln Community Health Center as a non-profit with they have gotten Capital funding from us on occasion Museum of Durham history has never really they they've had plans and talked about it in the past but they've had a bigger plan coming up now so it's really only that I can think of off the top of my head is Museum of Life and Science and Lincoln Community Health Center so it's not they're not that many that come and ask for capital okay but just to be clear the county is the one who owns the Lincoln building okay so that's different we don't own the Museum of Life and Science building okay but the county we own the Durham Center for Senior Life building we own the recovery Response Center building we own the Lincoln Community South Lincoln Community Health Center but so I think that's different different yes ma'am so really no non-profit that I know I mean the small ones that

are being made you know looking at the Museum as a model you know they're but they're hoping to become a larger the Museum of dorm history yes ma'am they're definitely following that model but me personally I think of the museum similar to our libraries that they are providing an educational purpose and the county has always been you know education that's why we find the museum and Durham Tech So within whereas like other things are more culturally entertainment or whatever I would those are usually more City that's just in my own brain [Music] thank you for that little Assad we are almost to the end we are we can see the Finish Line we are at the add delete portion of the budget process for the 2324 budget

um I we went over this at the last budget work session highlighted in blue either on your computer screens or up above or items in the add delete list that um highlighted in blue above are items that aren't really arguable these are changes to budgets that either the budget office found or departments found these are minor issues the net effect of those highlights and blues are actually 263 thousand dollars in savings to the county so those are easy choices to make we can go through those they're not really decisions that the Board needs to make I mean you can say to do or not do them but we would really appreciate you agreeing to these things these are sort of technical changes an example being the ABC Board got in contact with us after the manager's recommended budget and said they were proposing going up a hundred thousand dollars in Revenue we're like yay so we put that in after the manager's recommended budget you can choose not to accept it I would advise you do choose it so there are things

4 million dollars in additional funding that we have to find and how would we fund that so

4 million 600 000 is gone we're only down to 800. we identify what the one time expenses would be yes so then Keith I think I'm going to sleep asked before could we use the arpa funding for the Lincoln study that would take that would remove 300 000.

so David will you put a revenue Source on 300 000 with the Lincoln Health Center so that's uh now we've gone down from 800 to 500 000. well we're making a quick work of all of this one time money would be for the boys and girls club two vans they commit that chair Howerton brought up it's eighty thousand dollars obviously those are just one-time purchases um I don't the count the rest of it the is the forensic community support team I don't know if that's an ongoing I'm betting it's ongoing I just well their proposal was that it would be supplanted by with Medicaid expansion then it it would I think it was for two years two years yeah so do do they need all the money at at this year's budget proposal was performed to start with 492 000 yes ma'am okay the one that wasn't on this list last time we met is the gun safety

proposal request I believe a couple of Commissioners brought that up and thought it was coming and we did realize after talking with uh assistant County Manager Joanne Pierce that yes indeed that was a request that's a hundred and eighteen thousand dollars that we have put on here if you want to follow through with that some three years yes ma'am okay removed a bunch of things ma'am now that we've removed a bunch of things um let's add some I'm just joking this is something that came up last time we met in commissioner Burns is in here to bring it up it was the item that you know is really important that she's been raising around the sonographer has we figured out if we talked to Rod is that added into the budget no I think she asked that as an example of her not bringing something and she was proposing to you all to limit adding things is how I understood that we had that exact conversation in our budget office I

understood that as like she purposefully didn't add it now she withdrew the request correct originally asked us about it and then withdrew the request can we get an update from staff on that because um we can get an update give you an update on that as a matter of fact when we came to the board I think it was on the February 28th budget session or it was a meeting I believe that day um we talked about the stenographer and the equipment and some conversations around them moving forward with contract a contracted employee and that step is in process and what commissioner Burns talked about was the potential of having another part-time OBGYN that was not getting it OB GYN is what she was really taught and if you want to elaborate ACM peers

voice oh yes uh good afternoon Joanne Pierce assistant County manager so um just as commissioner Burns talked about the last time and I mentioned that the Family Planning and maternal Health Clinic is operational five days a week and it does have the the OB GYN two days a week and advanced practice practitioners the three days a week and two commissioner Burns's point to have another day for the OB GYN may not be practical practical however we have those Services provided every single day and for the sonographer the contracted work is is in progress so we can have someone who is certified to operate the um the equipment so just to clarify we are going to we will be able to have the ability to do

the sonograms every day is that what you're saying we have to work through that um and that is the the plan and the goal so that we could um be able to help those who are coming for those services we just need to get the person in place and then the equipment in place so that we can provide the services or one more one one other person sonographer it's not okay and that's going to be a contracted service yes that was the discussion yes so it's right it won't be anybody we hire it's going to be contracted right okay and so we don't need to provide any more funding right now for that or there has not been a request from public health okay okay but I think the this our board absolutely wants to make sure that that's um available so you'll let us know if we if we need to help with that yes all right and my second question

um around the the Vans just wondering if there's more so I guess I had a question for attorney Andrews of if we're purchasing vehicles for an outside entity what is like the liability to the county and what type of agreements get put in place if we're the one purchasing it like if God forbid anything were to happen like okay be responsible or when I'm sorry we're gonna have the JD portion of the conversation there okay I'm sorry go ahead 30. so who the vehicles are titled to is where we start are we giving money are making a donation of a vehicle and then that's it or are we maintaining and operating the vehicles would be my first question if we're providing so I see head I see some people doing this and some people doing that okay I think what the idea would be

would be to provide for through a do you know giving the vehicles or or providing the vehicles but we're not going to operate them yeah the the I think the proposal was the resources to buy the vehicles right so that is that is that right David correct we're not that's we won't be responsible give the dollars to support the um the acquisition we had several examples of that with some of the arpa funded activities as well so no that was on the recording but what I think that that was if we're simply funding and they acquired they have all the liability we have no liability I'm stuck on stuck on the vans to me that's a perfect example of a non-profit request that's coming

directly to us that feels like it could be you know pressure right pressure on us to make make to make that expenditure and it doesn't feel like it's gone through the right process to me so I'm really not in favor of that I don't think at this point it feels really risky to me to start making expenditures like that here at the end I just feel it I feel real uncomfortable with it I believe we gave the Boys and Girls Club a big chunk of funding didn't we five hundred thousand dollars earlier this year yeah and I'd really like to see you know you know need to see their whole budget and you know could their fundraise for that you know I don't know there's lots of non-profits that could come to us with requests like this write this red hot second and we wanted to say yes but it just doesn't feel like it's part of our normal process to do so you know I I hear what you're saying Heidi you know

this is about our children again you know we we take care of our kids and when you we the boys and girls club is about our children and when you see the buses the vans that they're riding on and the metal and we do things for other organizations that don't have have anything to do with children so this is about our kids and that's not a whole lot of money I mean it's it's nothing compared to all the other things that we do I don't think so we're talking about two vans that will be responsible for transferring our children from DPS to the Boys and Girls Club so yeah um well that a lot of other organizations can get money a different way as well

but again this is something that we can fund and it's not a whole lot of money to take care of our kids so and I don't think um maybe if I'm putting one in your mouth I don't think missionary Carter is against it or like any of us are against it it's just you know the precedent that it's also sets because I know me and Keith we talked about even the lgbtq center of Durham they were reached out for requester funding and that would have gone to support lgbtq youth um especially uh the youth and we gave money to the LBGTQ Center yeah we did yeah but this was a separate through a process and they came with a separate request and instead of bringing it to the board in the budget I passed it off to staff to go through the non-profit process um even though that's something I know all of us would support but I want I

think that is kind of like what hopefully we can do this was handled the same way I mean and all of you got copies of it the manager you've had it for how many months you know are we going to debate about eighty thousand dollars when we are we gonna are we gonna do it's not a debate of the 80 000 it's a debate of process okay so we're going to deny taking care of our children because you say the process wasn't done to your specification to the county specifications it was sent to management it was sent to every board member you've had it for how many months it wasn't it was you got it

the date that you got it in your email every one of you and okay I you know what I'm not going to argue with you about the fact that this is a request from the Boys and Girls Club we have funded the Boys and Girls Club to take care of the kids to provide resources and material so that they continue to work with DPS and the children and our kids now if you don't want to support it then just say you don't want to support it and be done with it commission Jacobs I just have a question for the manager is there the opportunity to

work with the city on looking at our surplus vehicles and seeing whether we have any vans or something that we could work on you know making them aware of some opportunities that we I don't know have we had has there been any conversation with the city on this request and about surplus vehicles or anything like that there has not been that conversation because the proposal came requesting that the county helps support the purchase of the two vans so no we didn't reach out about okay Surplus okay and has our staff looked at any options like that or made a recommendation we have not because it came through the proposal came to you all and so because it came as a funding request we put it on the add delete list as a funding request because the chair asked that it'd be something that we consider supporting in this budget

so we did not look at any other avenues of is it possible for us to add that to the Joint City County meeting on the 13th um I don't know to look at how I mean that could be done jointly or looking at surplus vehicles or some some other I don't know I'm trying to think about some other process we can certainly add it to the the agenda if there's something you all ask us to do we certainly can there are other possibilities I don't know that we know what they are now the possibility in front of us is either or yes or no to eighty thousand dollars if it's no and you want other possibilities we can say no and then move forward a week we can't answer that right now to Dr sowell's point I guess I would like to know what our process is for funding requests from non-profits so we normally work through the Departments the subject matter experts

are the ones that would get those requests and would you know review and and work with the requesting organization because there is no Department for that that works with the Boys and Girls Club this just came through well but the other requests we've gotten came did not come through a department the other boys and girls club request didn't come to her apartment so I don't know that we've ever connected them to a department and so much like we've done with each of you we said if you have a request for to put on the add delete list let us know what that is and this was a request that came from the chair to be added to the add delete list and so that's why it's there yeah I will say we to Heidi's point we we have been since I've been a county commissioner we've been trying to get us out of the um I know we've been trying to get staff to to um

fat things and and kind of run all the contracts that's true I I will say that um the four-letter word arpa has has um caused a different level of energy for ask and um and and it's something that the city is also trying to put their arms around uh and and we'll all have to revisit how do we manage needs the Boys and Girls Club they they provide a tremendous service to the community and how they support DPS and other schools um there are many other partners that we're funding right now through arpa funding and so we'll just try to figure out the path forward well no I'm not I'm not making a recommendation I'm just saying it's it's one that we just need to think about as

as the managers shared um it is one we we can follow Direction and have the conversation with the city uh when you when we we did share and and the the chair in her remarks talked up elevated how the Durham's locations specifically that particular one is touted um Across the Nation as one of the highest performing with their their students and transportation is a gap for many low-wealth families and so the ask isn't unreasonable the process is where the board has the challenge as with other that came through so we will follow up as the manager stated I I want to I'll say this and then I'll let alone I was out there breakfast uh fundraising breakfast uh recently and some of your

past mayors and um prominent people in the community was there and they were writing checks and supporting the organization so they are doing their due diligence to raise money um uh it's just it's like any other organization it just takes a lot to to make sure to ensure that we are doing everything we can to provide for the children that they take care of from DPS um and they and like you said they provide a really great service to our community and you know for me I'm willing to do whatever I can to support them do you know if there have been any conversations with Durham Public Schools about them helping to provide transport kids from the schools there or you know

anything about that they do support that they just the vans that they're using if you looked at the the information that you would send the Vans are so old and worn they have wire you can see wire on the seatings so if we want to use old you know when you think about use second-hand used vans you know what I think about when we when we talk about that it it makes me think about when black folks couldn't read and they had to get old used books they couldn't get the new books so we're talking to do that same thing in today to our children it's like what we were talking about today this morning earlier today that caste systems still exists so why would we do that to our children for eighty thousand dollars

so many it's it's well what the managers say a few minutes ago there hasn't been a a portal for the way we have funded the boys and girls club we did it we did it before and what department is a department for it do I need to ask for a vote between the four of you in or out so is it a possibility that this can go through the aqua funding is that something you can consider I'll let you and the manager talk about I'll vote for this because it's important to Brenda you know and because I do think the boys and girls club does good work I mean I think a gazillion

non-profits do good work with children and I'm sure they have funding needs as well that 80 000 would help with we just haven't heard their request but I do hear you know a plea from a commissioner that I care about and I won't vote Yes for that reason even though I don't think this is the right process to follow and I worry you know that let's let's just say we're not going to get caught here next year I don't know it feels and now I actually feel like I'm caving but I you know I hear what you say Brendan I don't want to vote against something that seems really important to you but that is politicizing it right that's this is that's a political decision decision that based on sound logic and just I don't know yeah and since since the board has raised the process as an area of concern what we can do is next year make sure

that when we put out this all call for Commissioners to say what is it you want in the budget to look at the source of where that request is coming from and if it is a non-profit then we'll have a conversation and I don't think about right I don't think it should be something for just next year I think it's something we should look into now because we're going to get requests even in the off budget time um like I mentioned you know I've received that request from the LGT Center I'm tempted now if it's going to make the rest of you cave and if I just bring It Forward um add it on the list what is yeah right wow like if we can figure out where non-profits go before it comes to our board for discussion find a housing for it in a department include Staffing and discuss it we can do that this came about because again we sent something

out to say Commissioners send us what it is you want added in the budget without thinking about some of this could be from non-profits so we'll we'll put a framework together for how to commissioner Jacobs asked me off to the side at one point she was curious about the non-profits we support in the county period there are many non-profits we support in service to what we do meals and wheels and DSs are a very close relationship it's not necessarily separate like it might be for Kate elander as a subject matter expert we can give you a list of those we have staff that help develop the policy that you all are trying to stay within the process and we will try to get from those subject matter experts some clear guidelines on the nonprofits they have chosen to work with and why and then y'all can assess that and we will give that and to Dr sowell's Point remind you of that before the budget process cranks up in Earnest so you all can make choices when you inevitably feel the requests coming to you directly either

stick with the process or not or get agreement this is a choice you made and it's a hard one to stick by for any number of reasons yeah I just want to know I mean every every other item on the add delete list has come through the staff um in some way it's been vetted or from a staff committee or a department um and and typically that is what our ad delete list is um and when I first became a county commissioner there were like a hundred non-profits that we funded and it was very political because it was whoever you know people's favorite organizations and so we really have tried to get away from that and put it back into a process with our staff and also we realized that it was very ineffective to fund you know give 10 000 to like 100 different groups and we got more into let's fund a few of them you know and

focus on the Strategic areas and give them more money and over like a two-year time period so I kind of went out the window a little bit with covet and now we have the arbor money but but to your point for the county manager to see all of the work that you know you all have put into the budget staff have put a lot of work into this so thank you so to review fourteen thousand dollars for the safe sleep campaign I believe that's a one year Shannon am I correct that's a one year so you asked about one-time funding maybe it goes um the Boys and Girls Club Vans one-time funding Lincoln Health Center pre-development process will be arpa funding but even if it wasn't arpa it's no dollars Newton net County dollars but it's a one-time process that pre-development the County Board stipends would be ongoing at a hundred thousand dollars the forensic community support team I think is a two-year

program and then a different funding source May pick it up the gun safety proposal is a request for a minimum three years of that at a hundred and eighteen thousand dollars maybe some growth each of those years we scroll down David and he's typing there we go we are at five hundred and twenty six thousand dollars which is a pretty easy number to accomplish through fund balance we'll just add that as a revenue Source the outstanding number we have out here is APS Animal Control that request was for two hundred and one thousand dollars which is 23 growth we can do something less I'll remind you I gave you three date options today be the nice way to figure it out from a dollar standpoint and plan you can have some discussions and get back to the manager and let the budget office know before the 12th and we can adjust the budget ordinance and you can implicitly

approve it in the budget ordinance at whatever number you choose to add to that if you so choose it is currently let me remind you at flat funding there is no growth from the current year amount which is 800 and some odd thousand dollars so that's not five percent that's not ten percent ten percent would be a plus eighty thousand dollar-ish growth 727 [Music] 000 still uh easy amount to pull from fund balance easy it is an amount we can handle another 200 000 with fund balance we can handle another fifty thousand yeah yes we can handle the full request we would just continue to recommend fund balance appropriated my third option is you can wait and give them additional money when the contract comes up for approval and we would do the same thing we would appropriate fund balance at that point but it gives everyone time to get questions answered whatever that means and whatever questions are out there those are the three timing options the

amount is from addition zero additional dollars five percent ten percent whatever percent up to two hundred and one thousand dollars more which is what they've asked for what's the average again increase across the county for operations that actually we didn't increase for operations but we increased the budget we're in the budget yeah well you're you're asking for minus Personnel cost increases are you talking about just the budget overall income so can you can you give us a chance because there were some other questions that we were asked to get um answered and get back so if we can get you but we can analyze that and get that to you differently we should at the budget here it should be but as part you wouldn't have to talk about it but if you will let us know beforehand we will put it in the budget as if it was the man and you will just approve the budget and it'll be there there was a request for 10 yeah we can

commissioner Jake yeah I mean I'm I want to do it a minimum of time I mean I hear I want to do the whole thing I honestly wonder about this if we put out an RFP and they're the only provider they could come back and say we want 3 million that's what it's going to cost us to do it without you know because of their social Source provider and we're gonna have to do it I I'm fine I'm fine with actually right now saying that I support their budget and I mean they for me they gave us a lot of information I'm fine but I'm just one member I just heard Heidi say she was and I'm fine with it so I hear too I see a three thumbs up three plus 201. Keith we we are at we're going to get the information back to the Commissioners would you please you got it I hear my boss right this is almost half you have some outstanding questions yeah but do we do ready but yeah if you could get the if they could get the staff to get the information back to us that we'll do

8 cents on that four things in preparation for growth in that community this is not the transportation portion of the tax remember they they requested two one cent for General growth 226 000 they they talked about obliquely and

things like the public safety like the sheriff substation there remember we talked about the sheriff's substation would still be bought and paid for by us but they might help support some of that through this potential increase and they wanted to get it that increase in early so they could start accumulating some of those dollars to help with something related to that in the future to which we haven't as a board a management and the board hasn't made any decisions about what size or whatever scope it might be related to some Sheriff substation as an example the second request they had was for another two and a half cents an additional two and a half cents for transportation related issues again the same thing in preparation for transportation coming future Transportation needs maximizing whatever go transit might do and all of that stuff so RTP is asking for a three and a half cent tax rate increase and those two are shown below those are all the things that are happening

25 and we'll use other Revenue sources that year to pay for it and we are at we are at the end you have crossed the line as underwhelming as that may feel you were expecting but I mean I wanted a little bit more but to the museum um I know so we're going to talk about this on the 13th I just want to make it known that I

I do support at least the um City in the counties funding their 108 000 request would be 54 000 for each of us would that be something that would be right yeah okay yeah and I can let Leo know Leonardo councilmember Williams since he's the liaison on the city Side to start to also talk to his colleagues that aren't on the joint cities County well I'm just one board member so maybe could we get us I'm also supportive of that yeah right it would come separate it would come to you all separately yeah it would be supportive of it as long as the city supports it as long as they do their they can do half I I have not heard from any city council person that they would so maybe the conversation on the 13th but do we

how do we so we will already have approved our budget by then right we will have approved our budget amendment and we would we would bring it back to the board as a separate item for you all to approve yeah all right this is Staff gonna be sure that none of us break the law and vote on this budget even [Music] and I don't know is there anything in this budget for them in the budget for Arts Council is there I mean I wouldn't know because it's too small of a line item our staff has been tasked with thank you wonderful staff we're trying to identify I think we have seven or eight to do all of my self-identified at this point try and find all of those agencies and where they may be funded explicitly meaning not someone just contracts with something for someone but explicitly we're giving downtown Durham Inc or

dermar's Council so if you know I guess this is a favor if I may have asked of the board if you know of funding for any of those please reach out to Keith and I and our budget team so we can also make sure but we are checking with departments we're scouring text entries and I wanted to make sure we identify all of those potential conflicts if you will and one other step that we did and we'll do is we run a list of all of the non-profits we have the procurement area to run this to follow the non-profits that we did business with since last year we gave that to you and that was like a final check and so that's in process now and so we'll send that out as one additional step because we do have um more non-profit partners with the arpa process we checked we did our crosswalking with that author so if any of those boards are in the budget such

as um uh what I'm trying to think of any of them that might be in the budget how do we vote on the budget without extracting those out okay so first of all you I can tell how you're thinking most of yours are government boards yeah so sometimes y'all make ad y'all add little comments in that confuse your others so I'm going to pull those out you're getting paid is not a factor okay you're being a voting or non-voting member is not a factor you're being a liaison is not a factor it is whether you are uh officer or a board member period and and so we're going to resend and re-talk about these emails that we've sent okay so your intent and what is in your heart is not what's key it's not about your heart it's not about your intent it's about your status consider

it to be like strict liability like when they taught me when I first turned 18 we'll talk about that later so this is about your status not your intent so if the board is a 501c3 for instance it qualifies potentially as one for which there needs to be a recusal versus if it's a different category we'll help you with that but the executive director if you even have an executive director is likely to be private or 501c3 for instance but for those types of boards there are restrictions not government created partnership created all those kinds of things and we're going to re-emphasize to help you the form that you get which you identify all your boards regardless then we filter it and we decide which qualify and then we look at whether we are funding them by line items if we're doing line item funding which is

something you vote on then we extract it out for you we just have to have communications about that and because I've now in the last you know a little bit heard about the different ways you look at your service plus one of the things that you say to others who are members sometimes I know maybe not you I'll just call it your predecessors you are on that board to advocate for them you're on that board to make sure they are properly funded you're on that board to make sure they're helped in the way they need to be helped that's stuff with maybe your predecessors none of you would do that I know but maybe your predecessors once told that to others that that's the purpose that you're there if you ever get an inclination to say that to a fellow board member in the future that that is why you're there you're also going to say but you can't advocate for their funding publicly and that'll clarify it yes you can privately if you do not do it in this room

you're not supposed to do it yeah I I don't understand I can understand not being able to vote on it but I don't understand not being able to Advocate because that you're if you are the most educated person because you are a member of that you're having a trouble with logic yeah and I was telling you where this came from [Laughter] for in actuality how this will all play out on the 12th as you will do a budget ordinance approval of all the things except what is defined by legal and you all that will be taken out of the budget ordinance you will approve the budget ordinance all of you then we will have the very first budget amendments to that

budget ordinance after you pass the ordinance the first five ordinance first five amendments last year were exactly these things the Museum of Life and Science will come up as a budget amendment to fund them at an amount minus whoever is recused from that vote and then we will have a second amendment that may be whatever the next group is hopefully it won't be more than five it may be we have a new attorney and it depends on what the definition is we'll have however many amendments and you all individuals will drop on and off of each one of those amendments but it'll all be done on the 12th and we'll be done with it foreign we did that last year though right right that's the first year we did it with last year yeah and it was five different votes that were taken after the budget ordinance okay there's a conversation here as his non-profit board rules wrap up what is that is that that's what we just did that's that's what we just did yes ma'am okay

anything else anything else third time anything else Yuri none this meeting is adjourned oh