m. It's great to see everybody. All right. Uh, madam click, will you please call the role?
>> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Mayor Williams, >> I'm here. >> Mayor Poten Middleton, >> I'm here.
>> Council member Baker >> here. >> Council member Cabayro. >> Council member Cook >> here. >> Council member Freeman, >> present.
>> Council member Rrist >> here. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Council member Cook, you want to start us off?
Any announcements or comments briefly? >> Uh, thank you all for being here. I don't have any announcements. >> Awesome.
I missed the mic. All right. Go ahead. Yeah.
Uh, no announcements. I did have one item here. Um, we know that ICE is operating in our community and it's something that I think has disturbed all of us. Um, I know that we would all prefer uh not to see any ICE uh operation here because I don't think that it makes our communities safer. Um, but at a bare
minimum um you know, we frequently lament the fact that we don't know what they're doing. At a bare minimum, we'd like to know that and have some transparency. So, um, colleagues, I'd be interested in bringing an item uh in the form of a resolution in our next work session. And I apologize that I haven't spoken with all of you earlier.
I will uh work up a draft and get one to you as quickly as possible. Um but bringing a resolution to our next work session um to make regular uh freedom of freedom of information act uh requests to the department of homeland security uh to uh to get some of the information about any enforcement activities that are taking place in our city. Would you be amendable to that? >> Yeah, fair enough.
>> All right. >> All right. Thank you for that. Um, we can chat also and bring a copy of it.
Um, council member Freeman. >> Yes, thank you. I just had one announcement I forgot on Monday night to
say happy emancipation day for all of those from Trinidad and Tobago. And other than that, that's all. Thank you. >> Thank you, Council Member Wrist.
>> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Good afternoon, colleagues. Good afternoon, staff, residents.
Thank you for being here. Um, a couple things. First of all, um I just want to say big congratulations to the Latino Community Credit Union, which is today celebrating their 25th anniversary. Um as you know, I'm a big credit union fan.
I'm on the board of Selfup Credit Union, but I'm also an account holder at Latino Community Credit Union. They'll be celebrating. I may see some of you later this afternoon. They're celebrating their anniversary today at 4.
Um this is a huge success story in the credit union movement, but also for Durham. Latina was founded in Durham 25 years ago starting from scratch has now built itself to over a billion in assets. A billion dollars in assets um serving over 210,000 members across 15 branches in the state. So it's a huge success story right here from Durham. I just want to say a big congrats to the staff there at Latino for the great work they've done. Um and including uh the current CEO and executive director uh Vicky Garcia who's a good friend and
doing an amazing job. So shout out to Latino Community Credit Union. Um, also, you know, I want to I want to talk about housing. It's a big priority for our city.
Um, it's a hot topic. I know it was a hot topic yesterday in the joint city county planning committee meeting. I I saw that online. Watch your your comments online.
Quite interesting. Um, I received a bunch of emails before and quite interesting, I guess. But good for TV. I loved it.
>> Yeah. Did you watch? Yeah. Yeah.
>> I had to make I had to make a stop. " Okay. >> Thank you for the rich discussion. Yeah.
So, um, you know, leading up to the meeting on Monday and after Monday, I continue to get emails from residents about housing issues, um, and some still clamoring over past decisions about resoning. So, I just want to connect a couple dots about housing because it's a big topic. It's also on our agenda today. We've got a number of items related to housing.
Um, so the first thing I want to say is that I've heard concerns about market rate construction and whether that whether that supply really targets the real crisis, right? We've heard about the concerns about whether this accelerates to displacement, another concern. And we've
heard the concerns about the need for permanent affordable housing, also an important concern. So, just a couple dots I want to connect. So, the first thing is um a bunch of us got up early on on Tuesday morning after our late meeting, a bunch of staff and myself, and went to the Chamber of Commerce mid-year economic outlook meeting. Um, and as the as the city manager and others know, there was a bunch of data shared, one of which was a slide from Matt Kopac that showed vacancy rates in Durham, rental vacancy rates, and those rates have inched up, right?
So now the vacancy rate is about 12%. And there's been some talk about vacancy, so much vacancies, that's like we got empty units. What does that mean? At the same time, and this is really important data, um, rents have actually declined.
The rent increases declined over the last several years. And over the last year, absolute rents have gone down in the city of Durham. And that's a big boost to all the renters in the city, especially the 50% of renters who are housing cost burdened. So from my perspective, that speaks to the importance of important decisions this council and past councils have made,
difficult decisions about expanding housing supply. It seems to be working and our residents are benefiting from that. The second thing is there's this question again about like does this cause gentrification, right? Was housing supply caused gentrification?
I just want to quote from a report the mayor and I have talked about this a recent report I think just came out yesterday from the Pew Charitable Trust about this question of what's the relationship between housing supply gentrification and equality quality of life in our communities. So, the report finds, and I quote, "The nationwide housing shortage has driven rents up more in low-income neighborhoods than the US overall. " And then continuing, the findings suggest that not allowing not allowing more homes to be built even for high-income residents pushes up all rents, making it harder for low-income tenants to remain in their neighborhoods. The last thing I want to note is I want
to thank I'm gl to take the invitation from DHA to visit yesterday the uh the new the latest property is here too. Um the latest newest property called >> Vanguard. the Vanguard, right, which formerly was Elizabeth Street, right? So, this is the first property, right, in our in our Dur DHA downtown neighborhood partnership that's come online.
This is about how many how many units? 60 units. >> 72 units. Okay.
So, the some of these units are for people returning to that community. Some are transfer of assistance from other public housing communities and some are market rate housing, all below 80% but some deeply affordable. So, that means your housing bond money is at work creating permanently affordable housing in Durham. It's coming online now.
There's going to be a groundbreaking I think maybe in a couple months, but you may not be able to get to see these. These units are amazing, high quality units. And since this is mixed income housing, there's amenities like in-unit hookups for a washer and dryer if you want. There's also washers and dryers on the floor if you if you don't want to do that. There's things like uh recreation
rooms so people can exercise. All the amenities people want across a range of incomes. Again, highquality housing. This is the direction we're going in housing in this community with public housing.
I know there's been a lot of conversation about DHA and some of the challenges that Mr. Snell and his staff are working on, but this is the future of public housing and public housing investment. Again, your bond funds at work. Um DHA is going to come back to us later this fall with a request for funds to start the redevelopment of both Fyet Place and um Forest Hills Heights.
So, this is this is the future of housing. This is happening right now. And so, I just want to say stay stay tuned. Change can't come soon enough for people who are burdened by high housing costs, but this council, DHA, and your council members in the city are moving aggressively to address the housing challenge, and we're starting to see the results.
So, thank you very much, Mr. Mayor. >> Thank you. Go back and clip that video and just post it.
>> Okay. >> All right. >> Thank you, Mayor. >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Good afternoon, honorable colleagues, to everyone in chamber with us today, and to all of our
residents and friends on whatever platform you may be watching. Good afternoon. I want to thank Council Member Ris for shouting out Council Member Baker and Cabieros and M's new podcast um and the first first edition of it >> around. >> Absolutely.
We're looking forward to doing more. Uh just very very quickly um friends on Monday at our Monday work session I had uh made a statement about uh revisiting um the violence interruption model in Durham. There was some subsequent media uh after that around that announcement and the impression was given that we would be discussing it at our next joint city county meeting in this month. We actually will be discussing that in October.
So I wanted to just level set and and manage expectations uh for our citizenry who may have been watching that meeting and may have been watching subsequent media reports. But I want to thank this council for your for being amanable uh to that revisitation. I want to also thank my colleagues at the at the county as well and look forward to a substantive conversation for something that I think is is sorely needed uh in
our city. So, thank you so much. Good to see you all. Yield.
>> Yeah, thank you. Uh just to tag on to that, I yeah, it may have been a little confusing. Mayor Pro Tim and I responded to a media request on it. Um colleagues, I will be proposing um with the actually quite a bit of uh quite a few community groups a very holistic um uh not only just violence interruption but youth engagement.
Um just taking a very creative and innovative approach to reducing um um violence in general, especially young violence, but uh hopefully specifically targeting gun violence as well. um reducing that uh and it'll include the schools, it'll in school include the county, it'll include us and um I hope that it'll be something amable as we stated when uh we had our passionate exchange in here our last work session. Um they the words ring true still um come up with a plan and we can look at it. So that's what I'm working on. Um and this is you know I know the managers between the city and
the county are working on some um they're just looking at some options as well. We're looking at how we can engage heart and all of the resources that we currently have, but there's a lot of work that's happening on the ground and I saw a lot of the suitable city future fund uh organizations. So, looking forward to just bring it up for us to entertain. I don't really have much um I can't remember the day before yesterday.
So, uh it's just it's been a rough week. So, I'm going to get on and and Mayor Pro Tim, I'm going to ask that you uh proceed with the uh consent and I need to run back to my office briefly. Um, okay. Council member Cook, >> sorry. Um, yeah, I just want to I just want to ask for clarity because um I I appreciate your statements, but I feel like when we have come to the work session, if we have an agenda item that we want to talk about in depth, I think it would be good to put that on the agenda as a conversation. um because those were meant to be announcements and I just want to be clear about what we
are looking for in that time frame and so whether or not there's like the ability to respond to some of the things that you said which I do feel like are very policyheavy, right? Um and and I haven't read that study but I know that there's been other studies in the past that have said things that are similar but when you break them down they don't exactly align maybe with the city of Durham and our progress. Um, so I think it would be helpful in the future just to have a heads up that that conversation is going to happen and have space for uh, >> you mean the housing? >> Yeah.
Yeah. Just and just to have space and and I'm it's not an attack. I just I know that sometimes we like wax poetic in these announcement sections. And so I just think that is a it's a just as like moving forward a good idea to know if if we're going to have a conversation about that, maybe it gets put on as an agenda item so that folks can actually um >> I'm glad you said that because we're working on adjusting this agenda so that we can have more deep dives.
So it's coming because I know it it's burning for us to be able to talk about it. >> Yeah, Mr. Mayor, if if I might, um I want to I want to associate myself with
Council Member Cook's uh uh comments. I I I don't know how many times I've sat on the days at meetings and and listened to colleagues um go deep into policy um and actually just come short of calling names talk about actions of council members. So I yeah I would associate myself but I I think every one of us up here some more than others have certainly uh use the time of announcements to to make to wax on about feelings about things and and actions this council has taken. So, yeah, I want to associate myself with your comments.
>> All right, we're waxing a lot today. Uh, let me wax over here to Council Member Freeman. I'll come back to you. Get yours.
>> I appreciate that, Council Member Cook. Um, as well, I I did just want to make sure I didn't forget to mention um the breakfast that I had a chance to attend and I think the mayor and city manager were there with along with county commissioners. um and just point out the the work of Lincoln Community Health Center and then to just say that we have
along with that housing conversation, there needs to be some conversation about health and what that means to folks in their homes. And it's not limited to rental, it's also home ownership. There there's so much to talk about in there. I won't go on a long waxing but I will say that I I would appreciate an agenda item but uh it was definitely uh eyeopening to see um the state vice president of housing coalition um shared a lot of information about how cuts are going to hit um Lincoln and we need to be prepared to figure out how to support even though that's not our main area because you know folks are losing SNAP They're losing um access to care and they're and I I I also had a chance to visit with um say it again, the >> Vanguard. >> The Vanguard and all the cuts that are hitting HUD. Um there's there's an onslaught of pressure that's going to be
on us locally. And I don't know that we can just kind of dream about what we want it to look like if we don't put some band-aids on what's happening right now. So, I just want to put that on our radar and just point out that >> that they are going to be asking for help. So, that would be >> Thanks.
Thanks for mentioning that. They uh Lincoln Health served 37,000 patients last year. Um it's kind of like the adult St. Jude, you know, not necessarily just cancer, but just health services.
Um it's a it's a it's a jewel to have in our community. And if a community like Durham is on the brink of, you know, can potentially be on the brink of losing a health institution, what do you think is happening to rural parts of North Carolina like Scotland neck where I'm from where we closed our hospital a while ago or Nash County where also I'm from and either where Zach Hawkins is from, Chakinity and other places. All of those hospitals are closed. So, uh, we have a privilege here in in an urban setting. And if we're on the brink of losing a hospital that is, um, I I don't want to use the language on the brink of losing because that's not the case. But federal government,
>> just make sure center >> um, but the federal government can easily just stop funding like that. And I will say the fun they they're getting support from Duke, but it's it's like a lot of inind, not direct financial. So, um that that although health services and social services are in the county's portfolio, uh at the end of the day, they are our residents and we should continue to collaborate with our county colleagues. >> I don't mind you rifting on my waxing, but I I just I also just wanted to end with saying a a big thank you to all of those um in the medical profession who do spend their time volunteering with our local um federally qualified health center.
I um want to say thank you again. Thank you. and keep keep volunteering, keep pouring your hours in. Thank you.
>> Thank you so much, colleagues. At this time, I'm going to yield to the manager for priority items. >> Thank you, Mayor Prom, mayor, members of council. Good to be with you again. Uh the city manager's office has several priority items for today's work session. Uh first regarding agenda item number
22, the Walltown small area plan and place type map amendment. Uh a presentation will be made during the August 18th, 2025 council meeting as part of the public hearing. Uh so look forward to that presentation uh a week from Monday. Then there are four supplemental items that have been added of a time-sensitive nature.
So I just wanted you to know about these supplemental items. These are agenda item number 26, the grant agreement with the Durham Housing Authority for Forest Hills Heights Relocation Activities. Agenda item number 27, the loan commitment for 902 Southbs Avenue redevelopment mosaic development group. Agenda item number 28, amendment to city loan with KB Carver LLC for Sandy Ridge Station project, increased loan amount and revised affordability terms. And agenda item number 29, resolution approval of a multif family housing facility to be known as 902 South Briggs Avenue in the city of Durham, North Carolina, and the financing thereof with multif family housing revenue bonds in an aggregate amount not to exceed 22,500,000.
Those are the city manager's office priority items. >> Thank you, Mr. Thank you, Mr. Manager.
You're not requesting action today on those. >> I am not. >> Thank you so much, sir. At this time, I'll yield to the city attorney for any priority items.
Good afternoon, counselor. >> Good afternoon, Mayor Prom. Mr. Mayor, members of the council, the city attorney's office does not have any priority items today.
>> Thank you so much, Madam Clerk. Good to see you. Good afternoon. I'll yield to you for any priority items.
>> Thank you, Mr. Mayor Protown. I do have my board and committee commission report. The recreation advisory commission for the mayoral appointment, Michael Johnston has been nominated.
under the participatory budgeting steering committee appointment for the category of at large. Elizabeth Edmonston >> for the Durham's workers rights commission appointment category of diverse backgrounds Shaun M. Cable and for the Durham Bicycle and Pedestrian Advisory Commission appointment for the category of ATL large there were two nominees Jeffrey M. Backlichuk and Kathleen Peralt for the
category of transportation planning policy Christopher N. Pearlson and walking running pedestrian community Jordan Powell and the last one for the housing appeals board appointment for the category of regular member Richard R. Andrews for the category of tenant Jacob Severin and for the alternate member under the same category of housing appeals board is Rita R. McDaniel and that's the end of my report.
Thank you for your report, madame clerk. Colleagues, at this time I'll meet read the administrative consent items uh into the agenda. Administrative consent items. Uh starting with the city clerk's office.
Item one, recreation advisory commission mayoral appointment. Item two, participatory budgeting steering committee appointment. Item three, boards, committees, commissions, and task force fiscal year 2024 through 2025, annual attendance reports. >> You pull that one.
>> Item three. Yeah. Item three is pulled. Proceeding uh item number four, Durham
Workers Right Commission of Durham Workers Rights Commission appointment. Item number five, Durham Bicycle and Pedestrian Advisory Commission appointment. Item number six, Housing Appeals Board appointment. Moving to departmental items from the city manager's office.
Item number seven, 2026 city council meeting schedule. >> Can I pull that please? >> Of course you'll pull it. Item number seven is pulled under emergency communications department.
Item number eight, Central Square Technologies CAD to CAD unified cloud subscription service contract under the engagement department. Item number nine, American Rescue Plan Act, ARPA interlocal agreement with Durham County to support digital equity efforts MFI distribution program contract with Celco partnership doing business as Verizon Wireless. I'll >> pull that one. >> Item number nine is pulled. Proceeding under under environmental street services department item number 10 amendment number one to professional services contract SW50D
North Duke Street sidewalk Improvement tip number EB-5715. >> Yay. Thumbs up for that. >> Okay.
Duly noted under under the finance department item number 11 installment purchase contract series 2025 under fleet management department. Item number 12, cooperative group purchase contract hazmat truck under general services department. Item number 13, second amendment to service agreement for project management consulting services was Turner and Towns and Hury LLC. >> I pull that one.
>> Pull that one out, please. >> Item number 13 is pulled. proceeding. Item number 14, parking facility structural maintenance package number one, project contract change order number five with Carolina Restoration and Waterproofing, Inc. Item number 15, First Amendment to the solid waste management yard waste repairs engineering services agreement with Smith Gardener, Inc. Item number one just notice that that this is important upgrading facilities that could allow potentially food composting at our at
our solid waste facilities. This is exciting stuff. Thank you. >> Thank you, council member.
Item number 16, Environmental and Street Services Administration Building Roof and Envelope Repairs Design Contract with R&D Architects, PA under Parks and Recreation Department. Item number 17, resolution approving street closures for the 2025 movable city open streets and 2025 Durham Holiday Parade. >> Again, great stuff. Yeah, thank you.
>> Agreed. under transportation department. Item number eight, FY26 transit grant project ordinances. Item number 19, FY2026, Durham County Transit Work Program Funding Agreements under our water management department.
Item number 20, purchase order with Swan Analytical USA, Inc. for turbid turbidime turbidometers and controllers at the Brown and Williams water treatment plants. Those are used for dithium crystals. I pull out >> item number 21.
>> I want to pull the turbidity. >> Item item number 20. >> Yes. >> Is pulled.
>> Proceeding. Item number 21, professional services contract with Highfield Infrastructure Engineering PC for the 15501 and Cornwallis Road waterline and Andrew Avenue tank drain line improvements project. Public hearings to be taken up at our next uh full council meeting. City County Planning and Development Department.
Item number 22, Walltown small area plan and place type map amendment A250000001. That is a uh presentation that the manager flagged that will occur when he said it would. Item number 23, zoning map change, Fagetville Flats. Item number 24, zoning map change, 4218 South Alustin Avenue.
Item number 25, zoning map change, 303 US70 Warehouse. Uh, I have not been given any citizens matters that I know of. Um, a supplemental items, housing and neighborhood services department, all flagged by our manager. Item number 26, grant agreement with the Durham Housing Authority for Forest Hill Heights relocation activities. Item
number 27, loan commitment for 902 South Briggs Avenue redevelopment, Mosaic Development Group. Item number 28, amendment to city loan with KB Carver LLC for Sandy Ridge Station project, increased loan amount and revised affordability terms. Item number 29, resolution approval of a multif family housing facility to be known as 902 South Briggs Avenue in the city of Durham, North Carolina, and the financing thereof with multif family housing revenue bonds in aggregate amount not to exceed $22,500,000. That ends the reading of our agenda.
Uh, Mr. Manager, by my reckoning, we have items 3, 7, 9, 13, and 20 pull. Do you concur? >> I concur.
>> All right, Mr. Mayor, you you want me to proceed with the uh >> I I'm kind of locked out of my system for a little bit, so just continue. >> Okay. See some ID, man.
Uh item number three, we'll uh take it from the top, was pulled by council member Riss. I'll yield to you. >> Thank you, Mayor Prom. Um
>> Good afternoon, council members. is Lola Roland with Deputy Deputy City Clerk sending in for Ashley Adams. I can >> roll and thanks for the the tenants report. I just had a question about this because there um I think it's really important data to have but I'm not sure some of it seems like not quite completely complete.
So for example like the Carolina Durham which I sit on only shows three members. Is that only because they're like city appointed or like so why only three? >> That's correct. We only keep track of city >> appointees.
Okay, I got that one. But then other ones there's like metrics that don't always make sense. Like in some cases the denominator appears to include blacked out dates. So someone shows us 33% but like there's a bunch of dates that are blacked out that maybe they weren't on that commission anymore.
So it seems like the wrong >> percentage. So uh it it depends. So that that denomination would come from the excused absences that they had that they were actually present for and what they missed from that nonblocked part. >> I'm not sure if I pull up some of I'm not sure true. There's also like one person had 111% attendance. So this seems like the math is not always correct on some.
>> Sure. So when we're gathering the reports, we make it very clear to staff leaison if that board has a staff leaison that we aren't going to change the percentages. We we give them a blank template. We give them a completed report that shows exactly how to um do the calculations for the board.
But um when it comes to the assistant city clerk, since they're receiving almost 30 reports, we don't want to go in and change any of the percentages already received. Now, if Ashley or Leonardo Williams, dependent on who's going to be receiving them, can uh look at it and make sure that the percentages are correct or sees any mistakes, she'll notify the staff liaison and then ask them to correct it and send it back. Um, but we try to get these typically on the second to third council meeting of the new fiscal year just to make sure that it's within the time frame of what what we're asking them for. >> Yeah, I understand.
Yeah. Your challenge on your end because there's so many reports. I mean, here's one like on the on the Durham Housing Authority board. So Dan Hudgins who left the board in October of 24 shows of a bunch of dates
that are blacked off after he left the board, but it shows his attendance as 31%. So, so in some ways the data then like is not always useful if it's not really >> accurate. So that's that's a because we read through these so I don't have time to crunch all the numbers but it's sort of like we I want to make sure we're getting as good data as possible. >> Well if if you'd like we're happy you can refer the item back to our department.
We can scrub through them one more time. I just don't encourage Leonardo Williams or Ashley to make any changes to the reports. um we want to make sure that we're encouraging the staff leaison to get that as accurately as possible. So >> I guess that's yeah I guess if there's any way to sort of encourage the staff leazison to make sure what they're submitting is sort of like does reflect the reality that'd be helpful.
I don't want to send this back this good data but I just want to make sure that the staff leazison are giving us the the best they've got. >> Duly noted. So, the next time the reports come around, which will probably be um for the calendar year, we'll make sure that the reports received are as accurate as possible and um we will make sure that we scrub through them before we present them to you if that means
maybe going past an agenda deadline. So, sure. >> Appreciate that. Thank you.
>> Thank you. >> Thank you, council member. Colleagues, anyone else on this item? All right, we'll move to item number seven.
Council member Caviierro will yield to you. >> Thank you. Um, I would like to flag a couple of and it goes way into the future, but any interest in moving our December 18th, 2025 work session, which would be on a Thursday to two days earlier, December 16th, going ahead and making a decision about whatever we're going to do about the summer. So, it's not um because I think council member Cook ended up having to get an excused absence because she'd already had work obligations that day.
And then finally, I think in subsequent 2026, the work session is on December 23rd. That seems particularly cruel. Um, so, uh, for not everyone celebrates that holiday, but you know, folks, people's kids are out on winter breaks and it's hard for families at that time of year. Uh, and so if we could also move that work session, >> you got to say hello. >> I mean, I figured y'all would be, you
know, I was like, well, people would be happy I pulled this one. Um, so I I guess basically moving whatever to the Tuesday. We've done that before. So I guess the 16th and then want to hear from council about next summer and then I guess the 23rd would be the 21st.
>> Colleagues, >> sorry, December 23rd, 2026 would be December 21st. I don't think we can move it sooner because we have a council meeting that Monday. >> And then Council Member Cavier, you're suggesting that for the for the um uh July 23rd work session that we just bump that into August as we've done. >> That's what we would like to do that we just go ahead and make that decision now.
I agree. >> Yeah. Colleagues, anyone? >> Um, so yes, u what we did this year um worked um >> long day.
>> Monday was I'll take a long day to have a long month, you know, a lighter month. Um so yes, and also I was going to propose uh a special meeting in December as well. Um an organization meeting.
>> Oh, we already did that. If if I'm not mistaken, we took that up with procedures about the first Yep, we did. We did. We did.
>> Correct. And that got updated. >> I'm not sure what the date is, but >> that's what your procedures now provide. That that first meeting in December is an organizational meeting where you'll just be constituted, sworn in.
>> Yeah, >> that's it. No business. Um, we haven't had a lot of conversation. We have a new agenda, uh, manager, Mary Grace.
Um, so we haven't had that conversation yet about how we will manage the workflow, but that is what the council voted on. >> No, that's great. I'm glad we did that. Uh, that that is an very unfriendly shock getting sworn in and then getting to business at the same night.
So, >> so just to be clear, what's the So, >> so I think we need to really work on the December meetings close. >> Does that not appear on the schedule at all? Because we just we just show a December 18th work session. >> No, no, I'm sorry. I think what the mayor is referencing is um whatever I guess it's not on here because the first one is December 18th. So whatever that first Monday meeting is in December
>> December 7th >> is what I'm >> Is that on the previous calendar is that essentially where that is right >> I'm sorry yes it would have been on the last calendar >> that then that makes sense. >> Yeah. So we're so th those are my suggestions. Thanks >> it Mr.
Manager. Um, it does call into question then whether or not uh a work session on November 19th would be necessary. If that is the work session designed to set the agenda for the December 7th meeting, if the December 7th meeting is only going to be organizational, then uh but what I might suggest is you just allow us to process this conversation going forward. Go ahead and make whatever decisions you do here. And if we want to come back with alterations later, it it is possible that the administration might want to suggest a special business meeting given that, you know, we stay busy all year. And so, uh, but I think we hear you that the December 7th meeting you'd like to be organizational only.
>> I'm just going to say this moving forward because um I am in full agreement. I will be teaching a class on Tuesday evenings uh that starts at 4:00. So just for when we're moving things to Tuesday, just know that I will have that time constraint on the end. >> No, dude.
Colleagues, anyone else? >> Council member Caballero, thank you uh for your leadership on that. >> Can I make one final comment? >> Of course.
>> Uh it's rare that we get to uh show the council uh the staff who makes these meeting happens. But since this allowed us to bring Mary Brooks to the podium, I just wanted to acknowledge that uh Mary is the reason uh that these uh agendas go so smoothly and that that uh the public gets good access. So as long as she was in the room, I wanted to publicly thank her for all her work. >> Thank you, Mary.
>> Thank you so much. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Manager, for doing it.
Absolutely. People who make the magic happen. You got it. >> Moving to item number nine. I'll yield to Council Member Cook.
Yeah, your mic's not on. Hello. Perfect. Um, so I just, these are very, very quick questions, but whenever something with ARPA comes up this far in the time frame, I'm just always curious about how it works with our ARPA calendaring restrictions.
So, I was wondering if you could speak to that a little bit. >> Um, as far as the the funding for this. >> Yes. >> Yeah.
So, with this, we are still um >> Patrice, please introduce yourself. >> Oh, I'm so sorry. >> Yes. Hello.
Um, my name is Patrice Carol. I'm the digital inclusion program manager for um um in the engagement department in the new engagement department. Okay, sorry about that. Um but to answer your question, um yes, the the funding for this is still on track to be expended by December 31st, 2026. >> Okay. And this um and so it was already obligated prior previously, correct?
Okay. >> Yes. Um, and so this that's in front of us today, I'm just wondering if you could give me I've read the memo and I just feel like it it feels a little unclear to me this particular piece of it, the Celco partnership. So Oh, okay.
>> Okay. >> Yes. Go whatever whatever you say. >> So yes.
So, um it's the county funds um that we're actually using for this. >> Oh, that makes so much more sense. Okay, thank you. Yes, that's helpful.
Um and then and then if you could just talk about this exact piece with the Selco partnership and why we're just seeing this separate and and right now. Okay. So with this um this is one of the initiatives for the MFI distribution and we actually had to go through the RFP that the regular process to select our um vendor for it which we did earlier
this year. And so now that we actually have our vendor that's approved now we're going through the process to actually get the contract and all signed. So um that's why right now it's just um coming through. We did receive the funds in I think November or December last year.
So we just really began working on this project at the beginning of this year. >> Awesome. And can you just talk a little bit about this project because I do think it's cool and I >> Yes. >> Yes.
So with this project we are actually um providing devices for um the MFIs and we will be given the devices where they will be able to keep those and we'll be actually able to provide services for up to um a limited amount of time. So with the funds running out it will actually be through the um November of next year. So um with this all qualifying residents will be able to receive a device and again receive free
um internet service for a limited time. >> Awesome. And since you are I think also the person that would know the answer to this, how will people find out about this project and how will they be able to opt in? >> Oh yes.
So we are definitely in a campaign right now where we are getting this message out. Um we actually have people that are doing tableling events and we're working with our community- based organizations. We also are putting it in through our water bill and we are also using the transit as another way to be able to promote um to be able to promote the um the program. >> Thank you.
>> Yes, >> those are all my questions. >> Thank you, Council Mr. Mayor. >> Yeah.
>> Can I get a press release? >> Okay. >> Yep. >> Yes.
>> If I can if I can get a press release. And CBS 17, you're in the room, right? >> Okay. We're going to make sure this gets covered.
This is one thing the Durham does not do a good job at is communicating your wins. This is great work and we're going to make sure the word gets out. >> Thank you. >> Yes. >> Thank you so much colleagues. Sure.
Absolutely. >> Thank you. I have just one quick question. Um are you all also collaborating since we're going to have participatory budgeting this fall potentially?
They're going to be tableabling a ton and so um maximizing that effort out in community as well. >> Yes. And again with us being in the engagement department, we are actually working with them. Yes.
>> Council member, I'm sorry. We we council me. >> Thank you, Miss Carol. Can you also um say exactly like what the qualification is?
I imagine some income or what's the what's the how does one qualify? >> So to qualify for the program, it's income based and if you're on government assistant program >> and what's the process like? Is that a sort of like cumbersome process or it pretty easy to to get that if you qualify to get certified? >> So, they would just we have the documents that they would need to send in to um qualify them for the program. So, there's a list of the type of documents to send in so that they can actually qualify that our team actually
vets. >> So, they send to your office. Yeah, >> exactly. So, we have a survey that we actually send out that they would um complete and then once it comes in and they can either attach their documents or bring them to the day of deployment where we would then um review them and if they qualify they would then be able to um receive the devices.
And then would you need like tax returns or W2s or what's the what is >> um sorry um we have a list and the tax returns I don't think it's it's one of them I I don't remember exactly off off hand but I do have a list on our website of the different documents that can actually be brought in um and but I have to confirm if it's >> you could bring it in the city hall you can mail it in different ways >> so they will right now we having them to be able to attach it to the survey to send it in which we are receiving in through um Civic Plus so they can send it in encrypted. >> Okay. >> And then if they are unable to because
they they may not be able to attach it, they can bring it the day of deployment and we will then be able to um scan it in and put it because we'll have to provide that information of course for federal funding. Gotcha. >> Thank you. >> Yes.
>> Thank you colleagues. >> Thank you. >> All right. Thank you so much.
We're going to move now to item 13. And both council members, Rrista and Cook, I think, pulled it simultaneously, so I'll yield to both of you. >> All right. Um, yeah, I guess this one stood out to me because the numbers are this increase is just very drastic.
And I just wanted to to hear some information on on the amendment and why we saw it was like a 50% increase. And I didn't feel like the memo language was like a lot of project project project and there was like not a lot. I mean they broke it down for us later but I just am curious like how how
um we got to a point where we needed to amend for such a large difference in money. >> Thank you. Gina Propes on behalf of general services. So there is an attachment in the documents that helps to supplement the agenda memo which identifies all of the projects for which program management project management services are um tied to.
7% charge to the project to provide project management services through the consulting group. The consulting group allows us to scale up quickly when we have new projects that are added like we did this year for FY26 or when we have additional funds added to projects because of either cost escalation or um changes to the project scope. So what you'll see is a um a flat fee against the project that helps to um pay for or procure the services for project management. We currently have um the team that we're using is Turner Towns and Harry. They are working on some of
our larger projects because we want to get as quickly as we can our projects through design and construction to have them delivered. So the ability to work with the consultant team that can quickly bring on project management services that allows us to deliver is how this model has been um set up so we can scale up and scale down over a 5-year period. So you'll see that some of the projects are new projects that came online for FY26. Those are the projects are in the attachment in blue and some of them are additional funds for existing projects that were underfunded.
So this um the amount of pro project management services relates to the overall project budget. Also when we developed our project budgets this year, we anticipated the need for these services. So they were part of the project budget. >> Oh okay.
That's interesting. I have two follow-up questions for now. Um the first is for now. for now. Um the first is so because we're like using this consultant and then we like are able to
and I understand the efficiency argument of being able to scale up and scale down very quickly. Um but how often do we do like an RFP? How often are we comparing that consultant with other folks who might be in the field? >> And this consultant was selected off of a cooperative purchasing agreement.
So that is a process that has already been vetted that's across the state. So we were able to avail ourselves of that procurement method which also uses a process to determine um who's in the marketplace that provides these services. >> Okay. And and so how long of a time frame do we end up usually working with these consultants or when do we look to see if we need to make a shift? >> Um so we this is something fairly new that we've been doing in the past um since past two years. Um we did it a long time ago with um the original bond program back in 2005 and um so we're seeing how I mean I don't have we don't have a necessary a plan right now or a need to go do a new RFP because of the um services that are being provided
and um we're we are very um pleased with the performance. >> Okay. >> Um if this becomes a model that we continue for years and years, we we might want to consider those options. But we did use the procurement process allowed through the state.
>> Okay. And then um I guess why that decision and then how do you choose which projects we do the outside consulting for? >> Um so that's good a good question because with the um ability of um our consulting group to provide uh a different experience levels of um project managers. we're able to um um scale or actually uh coordinate someone who may have had experience on an aquatics facility with an aquatics facility. So, they have the ability to help us um marry those skill sets with the type of projects that we have um ongoing. So, if we've got someone that has had experience with fire stations in another jurisdiction, then that person is able to can um carry and work on our
fire station and EMS projects. So, it's it gives us a little bit more flexibility to have those skills ready and available. And also, um, some of these team members that are working on our projects have worked in other jurisdictions, whether in Virginia or other local municipalities or nearby. We have the ability to see what other communities are doing and how they deliver their projects as well.
>> Well, so um, and so we kind of like have an idea of the projects that we want to put forth or do we sort of give them a list and be like, do you have expertise in these areas? Well, we kind of, you know, work work together and we also look at our existing staff to identify what our existing staff their um experience level or what is already on their plate, especially as we bring on new projects. >> Okay. Yeah, that was my question.
Thank you. Those are >> Thanks, Cook. I think if I can understand or if I understand your comments, part of it is this is the question about like the increase at $2 million increase in the contract. Big increase, right, from the base of two million.
So, I have like bigger picture questions and thanks for coming. I know you're wearing a couple hats now. general services and those TCM. So,
thanks for being here. So, I I guess I'm concerned about capacity of general services long-term to manage projects and you me you referenced I think about a hundred active projects. A lot of stuff that's going on now and a lot of the a lot of the stuff we hear from residents um on like where's like where's the rail trail and south of Liberty Creek and 505 are all projects in your department. Clearly, these are not easy projects to manage.
I guess my question is and the memo also references staff turnover, difficulty in keeping staff. So, like what's the I understand using consultants shortterm to address some of these some of these gaps, but like what's the long-term plan for capacity in general services to to like manage all these admittedly large number and sometimes complex projects? >> Um, >> because I I I imagine consultants per hour are more expensive than having staff. So, like what's the balance there?
>> I would say it can be tricky because in in some years in the past, we've had more staff than we had projects for. So the ability to scale up and scale down with contract services is is helpful. I mean I think as we continue to trend and
see what the average number of projects are that we have, what is in our capital fund and we forecast that 10-year plan, we'll be able to then have a better understanding of how to resource our department. >> Can I can I elaborate on that too? So uh in in my 13 years with the city, had close relationship with general services and for a long time it was a direct report department. uh in including uh Miss Prope's predecessors.
So I I think I would say on behalf of all the departments who have professional services like these project managers but also engineers and other departments, street and environmental services has a number of project managers, water management has a number of project managers. This is uh this is a profession and a professional responsibility where we have seen um a great deal of complexity in both the um the ability to attract and retain and also huge impacts from the triangle market the private sector and public sector and the tri private market. So uh
we have you know I would say that the city has has done a a very good job of sort of tracking the various micro and macro factors that impact our ability to attract that type of talent and retain that type of talent and then pivot as necessary when we either see so you know there have been times when when the construction market is super super hot in the triangle it is very difficult to attract those positions and keep those positions uh has very little to do with our culture. uh does have to do with our salary and benefits which rarely can compete with the private sector even if we were to do compensation studies every 12 months just because the private sector will flex up in terms of what they pay to attract and retain in a way that is virtually impossible for governments to match. And so in those cases and especially in hot markets, I have seen all of those departments take advantage of uh contract uh contract labor with some of those same firms to be able to keep our projects on track. I
would say that a philosophy that I think represents all of those departments and and I'm certain general services is our our primary goal and desire is to have a core of city staff who manage projects to provide that consistency that knowledge of our business practices knowledge of the local community and to rely on that. And I think to Miss Prob's comments, we we feed a lot of data into the decision-m about how much to try and do that. And a lot of that does have to do with project load. Uh and uh developing that 10-year plan that Miss Probes identified will be another significant data point in that. But being able to flex up and down as necessary is uh an ability that the private sector does afford us. And so this uh agenda item represents uh it is not a drastic change to our strategy but requires this change in contracting level because we are taking dollars uh that we would normally put into
salaries. They are those project dollars that were already forecast but we have to address this contract. So this is not this because it's an agenda item today. It looks like a quick pivot.
It's not a quick pivot. It is very consistent with the strategy that's been delivering projects long term. But to your key question, I would say our strategy is to try and find where is that steady line in the dips and valleys that that is a reasonable permanent investment for the city and then to augment that when necessary. And as as I think the council discussion has has accurately highlighted, you know, trying to balance the expertise and stability we get from staff with the desire from our residents to deliver projects as quickly as possible. So, you know, I just want to endorse this and do a little bit more to explain to the council that I I think we understand the council's desire to to handle our needs as best as possible with staff in house, but that I think this is a reasonable and and and efficient business practice where
necessary to uh to scale up and be able to manage these projects. >> So, no, I appreciate that. So it sounds like we should then expect to see some of these in the future more sort of these contracts for project management. So it's not like you have a plan for staffing up general services dramatically.
This is your plan, right? To sort of use the staff roughly you have or or or say more about that. Um, as the manager just said, I think that as we look at our 10-year plan and we see what the value is and the number of projects, it will help inform whether or not we should invest in more internal resources for that long period or whether or not um continuing to augment is the best practice. >> So, for instance, if we saw a fairly consistent project load over 10 years, that might might lead to us staffing to a level that we know is going to have consistent load. However, as you know, we delve into the CIP and we've had, you know, more complex conversations with the council about some years we'll have more debt capacity and have more new starts. If if the the pattern looks more like this, you might see occasional
every two years us scaling up with these with this capacity and then scaling back down. So, the more efficient thing to the city is to only invest those resources when we need them rather than staffing to the highest peak and then having excess staff capacity when we don't need it. So yes, you may see this more in the future, but it really will depend on the projects you approve, the analysis that we do. Uh market factors can can can be a big factor as well.
So I I would like you to be open to seeing more of them without me necessarily predicting exactly how often you will see it. I definitely think it's in and we'd be happy to bring more of a deep dive to council if you if you want to sort of look at how we make these decisions and and I know uh director floor is in the room. we, you know, talk more in general to some of Council Member Cook's earlier questions about how often do we go back out, what are the various ways we can procure services like this. Gina mentioned the uh, you know, a state contract.
Uh, we can piggyback off other governments. There are times when we can create exceptions to our purchasing rules. I think we have
very uh very um professional and appropriate methods for making all those decisions, but I realize those are things the council doesn't see very often. We'd be happy to share those with you. Councilman Caballero, I'm sorry. Coun, were you done?
Council Council, >> thank you. I I really appreciate that. U Manager Ferguson in this discussion. It would be helpful because where we see it is just on budget asks.
And so then we're being asked to for money and we don't necessarily have all of the context. And so uh I think this goes back to around the budget conversation that we had a little you towards the end of uh last fiscal year when we were about to adopt. It's hard to make a decision if we especially if it's like a tax increase if we're not real clear on, you know, what's gonna what's the impact actually going to be for residents. And if the impact is, yeah, we're going to get projects delivered a lot more quickly, then it's our job to to to tell that narrative and say, yeah, you know, this was a decision your council made and this is why and look, you're going to be able to get all these projects a lot quicker. Um, so I I definitely uh like that idea of a deeper dive ahead
of, you know, January, February, uh, when we're starting to already have to make decisions. Thank you. >> Thank you, Council Member. I'm on Baker Party.
>> So, we've seen an influx of of major infrastructure projects. So, that's that's one reasoning behind this. Um, we've seen um, one thing that's in the staff report is kind of a is addressing turnover and talking about the turnover that's happened. Um and we've seen the labor market, you know, after 2020 and the investment that the city made in workers.
Have we seen stabilizing of uh turnover uh since since we made that investment in city worker wages >> for the project management division here? I would say we do have um we've not had turnover the staff that we have now. There was a time when someone would apply for for a position with us and they would apply for a position DOT. Then they would be apply for a position in Raleigh.
Whoever got to them first got them. And we actually went that worked for us for like two weeks and they went to work for DOT. So that that
type of churn has changed and is not currently what we're seeing um in the general services department for for project management. >> Okay. >> But there still is a lot of competition and a lot of need for these um types of resources um in in in design and construction. Yeah, and I I appreciate this uh this conversation as well.
And I know that um consultant can sometimes be perceived as a four-letter word. Um and I say that as a consultant too, Carl. Um but I also I think that you mentioned the skill sets and you know consultants can sometimes be these pollinators that are taking ideas from one place and and bringing them to other places. At the same time they might not have the institutional knowledge.
They might come at a higher cost. So I do think philosophically, you know, that balance is a healthy one. So appreciate that >> we've seen the pollinator effect. >> One final thought uh to council member Baker's comments, some that you raised. So couple of other tools in our toolbox that we're using at uh DCM Wimbush
working with our HR department. We recently just approved a policy to allow um some small flexible uh signon bonuses for certain types of hard to recruit positions. I mean, these are all things that we're looking at all the time is where where do we particularly struggle with certain types of positions of what are we doing to increase our ability to recruit and retain. That's a new enough effort that I think we can't uh uh predict results yet, but I I'd like the council to know we're trying to be as flexible and responsive to these challenges as possible.
And then the final thing that that that just the word consultant might trigger for council that I'd like to dissuade if I can is that um these staff that are working under this contract are seamlessly integrated with the staff and general services. Uh we at the senior level uh work with them like we work with our own project managers. So these are not distant folks sitting at a desk far away and not interacting with Durham. Uh we deeply integrate them with Durham's values. These are incredibly important
positions in terms of delivering projects that are of great value to Durham residents. And so, you know, um despite the fact that they have an employment agreement with someone else, uh they are full team members and meet every standard that you expect our staff to meet and that's the standard that that uh Miss Propes holds them to and that her staff holds them to. So, uh with any contractors, that's our goal. with these staff in particular.
I'm particularly pleased with how general services has made them uh fully beneficial to the residents of Durham. K. >> Thank you, Mr. City Manager.
Yeah, I want to make sure it's clear like my comments had nothing to do with disparaging consultants. It's just the question of like because we're right. We're a lot of us are consultants on the table. Um it's just a question of like cost and benefits, right?
And what what's the balance there and how do we know we're getting uh the the right outcomes? That's it's more of those questions. So, thank you. >> Thanks so much.
Um, uh, DC and Pros, good to see you. Congratulations again. Thank you. Uh, good is a four-letter word as well. Uh, but I I, um, I want to thank my colleagues. Um, these are the
type of questions that as fiduciaries of city that you should be asking, and I appreciate, but I do want to express my, um, my confidence. I've used to have anx over these same things, but I've watched the agility um, and how judicious our st There's a reason why we get consistently ranked as one of the best run cities um, in the country. and and I've watched um how you've strategically and judiciously employed uh uh uh consultants uh when needed. Um you know, I I have a I have a uh a lawn mower, but I'm not buying an air rating machine.
Um there are times when, you know, I bring folk in. There's stuff I keep and times when I have to bring in folks and I'm just not making that investment. and and I think, you know, it's an imperfect analogy, but but I've watched um masterfully watch how you folk have masterfully uh done that. So, I'm I'm I'm fully confident.
Um I I appreciate, Mr. Manager, also your primer as well. Uh it would be just as inefficient to have a bunch of staff sitting around with no work uh to do.
So, so I I trust you're watching the clock and and reading the green one project that was mentioned 505 that's not caught up in stat. That's because uh SP 505 is on us. So that the decision- making rests with us at least on that project. So I just want to make sure that that that's made clear.
But um thank you so much for the work and colleagues. Thank you for excellent questions on this item. The final item that was uh pulled was item number 20. I'll yield to council member Cook.
I just had a few really not spec like not super important and specific turbidity questions and Oh yeah, he's here. I was like, okay, >> you're good. >> Thank you, water management. >> Sorry. Sorry. >> How's it going?
>> I was really excited about seeing Gina answer those questions. So, >> I know. I was like, oh no. >> Personally, I'm a little disappointed.
But >> I am so proud of the turbidimeter. You got it right on right. You know, when POS came up a few weeks ago, it was uh it was exciting to see that. Um hi everyone.
My name is Jeremy Dirk Carter. I'm acting um assistant director with this department of water management. >> Um thank you for being here. Uh so I I appreciated all of the like handwritten um logs that we got in as part of our agenda items and I thought that was really cool.
So, it was it was fun to see for me like how y'all assessed these two and and chose and I was just wondering if you could speak a little bit to um some of these regulations that we're trying to meet with interpity meters and and what our progress is there. >> Absolutely. For that, I'm going to turn to Mr. Thomas Lucas, our uh superintendent at Brown Water Treatment.
>> Um hello, I'm Tom Lucas. Um I'm the superintendent of the Brown Water Treatment Plant. Like Durk said, um, we're required to so turbidity is a is a
measure of of how clear the water is. 3 um, NTU limit. And we have to record that uh, we have to measure it constantly. It has to be recorded every 15 minutes.
And um I cannot tell you off the top of my head what the actual rule that that corresponds that that would that we have to um obey but that is that's what we that's the um work we have to do for that. It's measured every 15 minutes and this is consistently or are these are these regulations changing I guess is my question this this particular one has been in place since I want to say 2001 maybe 2002 something like that. >> Okay. So when you were testing these you were you had already had years of knowing kind of what the outputs were you were looking for and that sort of thing and and >> Yes ma'am. Uh we the the uh ones we have
now are old and they are past um obsolescence um or they are obsolescence. They're past the the the company is not supporting them anymore. So we have to choose a new type. So we we tried the two types and um chose the swan.
>> Okay. >> Thank you. Those are all my questions. Thanks.
>> Thank you. Uh colleagues, anyone else? >> All right, Mr. Mayor, with your permission, I'll just settle the agenda, then hand the uh gavl back to you to adjourn us out or any final comments.
>> No pre nope. >> All right. Um gosh, I work really hard today. I am tired.
I'm, you know, glad I had to uh get us through this agenda, but we are here. >> Uh Mr. Manager, you can um go and settle this out. >> Thank you, Mayor, mayor prom council. I'm pleased to settle the agenda. What I have for that is on consent items 1 through 21 and items 26 through 29 and on GBA public hearing items 22 through
25. >> Thank you. Uh there's mo. >> Yep.
Is there a motion to move? >> All right. It's been moved and properly second. All in favor?
>> I >> I thank you all so much. So is this how it's going to be every time you lead the meeting? An hour. >> Let's not find out.
>> Thank you all so much. We're adjourning at two. >> Awesome. >> Folks, just send me feedback.