Javiera thank you good afternoon everyone I'm also just going to shout out City staff whenever we have weather events uh we know that y'all are on standby providing excellent Service uh to our residents and uh so uh thank you I know that whenever we have events like this it it can get stressful um also for folks who are traveling today I know there's been a lot of travel interruptions uh I will also be thinking of you uh the trains um the amtr trains are getting canceled I have kids in Charlotte so I'll be um maybe stepping out to figure out uh or whatever needs to happen so uh I know that there's a lot of folks who are going to be stranded potentially at our airports or train stations the next few days so uh sending you all lots of positive thoughts because that is also stressful thank you thank you uh council member for M thank you and uh I'll e my colleagues on the weather and just um also just note I know that there's a lot of folks out there who are working and just um in
the in the actual elements and so I'll just ask them to just work really hard to try to stay dry and I did want to just make sure I noted that Duke Energy advises If you experience a power outage to please report it on their website or through the mobile app and you can also text out UT to 5781 or call call 1 1800 45227 77 um and then just one additional announcement I am working to try and coordinate um some Town Hall meetings with City staff and our district packs and so I just want to make sure my colleagues are aware um the first one is likely to be we're just trying to get get there August 22nd is a Thursday at 7 pm I do understand like it's a work session um day but if you are available it would be great to have you there um I do think that uh our sheriff and district attorney have agreed to be there our state senator and um working on the rest of the folks if there's anyone that you think should be in
attendance please let them know um I think it's a great opportunity for folks to really understand what's happening with the city uh I believe that what'll be up will be Transportation arksen W Community Development and there's one more it's pling right now but it'll but yes those were that was the request of the pack um and pack one and so pack two three and four um I think pack four and pack one are working together and I think two and three and pack one four and five are working together and so I'll try to get to two and three in a different town hall meeting um but I'll keep you posted I'm trying to keep them on the fourth Thursdays of the month if if you want to hold those dates at 7 pm thank you let us know Carl Rist thank you Mr Mayor city manager mayor patam greetings everybody greetings citizens uh um yeah echo my my colleagues comments thanks
for those those uh specifics around Duke Energy stay safe stay dry out there um yeah thank you nothing else thank you your honor and my honorable colleagues good afternoon everyone in the room and whoever is watching and listening on whatever platform yeah my colleagues have have nailed it and I think really appropriately highlighted on the weather event we're facing I do want to just thank the staff and and um a lot of what they do is not forward facing our Emergency Management folk folk who are planning to keep our road safe our First Responders um work tirelessly at times like this it's not like you don't get to see it like you do in the movies but we have an incredibly um uh dedicated group of folk in our city who swing into action unheralded No cameras present um 247 uh when these incidents happen so I just want to shout out I was always a fan of the city but this job is giving me a view that has made me a super fan I wear a cape now a super fan of our city um so just thanks to all of our our folk that are working while we're sleeping to
keep us safe and restore power and respond to emergencies and make sure we don't get stuck in flooded areas and when we do to come and get us out please don't drive through them um and be safe out there thank you Mr Mayor thank you um couple of things um council member Freeman thanks for uh bringing up those those Town Halls um there are some being coordinated as well um at a congresswoman for she's office in mine I'll make sure I speak with you to make sure we don't overlap go ahead sorry congresswoman fushi will also be in atten well she won't be there because she'll be out of town but Shanetta will be there gotcha she is as well good deal I'll um I I'll tap in on those states to make sure we um don't overlab won't be here the 22nd but I will definitely tap in with you um as everyone has stated you know uh there are a lot of brave souls out there uh that are driving uh I lost count of how many cars
this morning was up in the woods and in a ditch and tearing up the wire catches along the freeway uh was like nine between uh Morrisville and Durham on 40 so uh if you don't have to go out uh please and I know it sounds weird I'm saying this while I was out well my wife gives me a honeydew list um and I have to open the restaurant so I had to go to Restaurant Depot um but I did not want to but I did Count a lot of folks in the ditch and in the woods so please we don't have to just just don't uh there is a lot of water that's just standing standing out there um and I have been in constant communication with Mr Ray trap who's the new uh Regional representative for Duke Energy um Mr trap and I happen to be uh personal friends so I we are communicating daily uh he's constantly updating me and that's why I've been posting on socials ahead of time if
there's like an outage or something um between him and um now I'm drawing a blink what's her name um Duke Energy before Ray andar ever yes between the two of them uh we have a group chat going on and they're updating me so if you uh follow my socials um I'll be posting as well as the Emergency Management Services as well as the city's Communications speaking of uh cities Communications um there there was a post that was placed out there director Thompson I haven't even mentioned this I forgot so don't freak out over there uh there was a post on our socials that mentioned uh hey we need to clean the city drains and it was a picture of city staff actually cleaning the dreams uh that post did not indicate that you need to go and clean the city drains we got that part if you have drains on your personal property uh please just you know if you can just so you won't flood out that's what the post was talking about I received quite a few messages uh from a group it was a group
and it was saying why why do why do the city want us to go out of cleans that's not what the city was saying that's that was a misinterpretation so I just wanted to state that and I did tell them tune in to city council work session because I would mention that no one is asking you to go out and and and uh and do that um thank you I right and I I will um I will send that that that correspondence to you director Thompson uh I believe that was it let's uh let's let's get to it um let's get to this consent agenda today first priority item city manager m a manager good good afternoon Mr Mayor Mr Mayor protim members of the Durham city council I have a couple of priority items for your consideration this afternoon agenda item number seven which is an update on the Redevelopment of 505 West Chapel Hill Street a presentation will be made during the August 88th 2024 city council work session today the
presentation was revised to reflect an updated financial model agenda item number 19 citizens matter Quincy Hut additional information from Quincy Hut has been attached that is all I have for you this afternoon thank you thank you I'll entertain a motion to uh accept the manager's uh priority items so move second and move and property second please show by uh of hands motion passes 60 thank you all right Madam attorney I do not have any priority items today Mr Mayor thank you thank you I'm working on my anxiety and not holding my breath when you say you have one so uh thank you madam clerk thank you Mr Mayor the city clerk's office is the same we don't have any priority items today all right thank you thought I
did all right I'll go ahead and now read the consent agenda item number one Durham cultural Advisory Board item number two sports commission Duram Sports appointment Mr Mayor I don't want to pull number one but I just want to recognize that there were something like 20 applications for that Advisory Board and um I just want to say thank you to all of the citizens that put their name in the Hat very very impressive resumés and I appreciate that folks want to volunteer with the city yes and I I could just offer another comment I do want to just note that I went with the recommended um person from the cultural Affairs board but there are there are um three white women and uh there is no API representation and so I do want to make sure that we try to pick that up okay yes sorry just really quick I'm the leaz on to the ctal Affairs board and there are three or four more coming because
they just met I think in July and are very very thoughtful and intentional about demographics skill sets lens that people are coming with and so I do want to shout them out because I have uh and I think mayor proem as Leon has seen how thoughtful they are about um the because as you see it's one of the it's like Planning Commission there there's so many folks who want to serve on this um uh commission which is great but I do want to shout out all of the folks there because they have a really good process that uh is equity focused and um and um we should be getting several more recommendations because they' took up their uh recommendations in July I think for three more positions sounds good and and I colleagues just let you know I've been trying to be very intentional if you've been getting messages from me giving you a name that's probably because it's who um the organization recommend that they've pretty much done the vetting I and I believe on this one I can't remember if I clicked the right name or not um so
Madam clerk if I did not get you change it to the recommend that on this is culture advisory well it was the one that had like 20 something names for one seat yeah so uh just whatever it is just um place it on the recommended person from them all right thank you I guess that was the first time we unofficially pulled something without pulling it we had we just had a full out discussion okay gotcha so uh starting over from the top Duram cultural cultural Advisory Board appointment um number two Durham Sports commission appointment number three Durham bicycle and pedestrian advisory commission appointment number four boards committees commissions and task force fiscal year 2023 2024 annual attendance reports I want to pull that
item write up for me for number five 2025 city council meeting schedule I'm going to pull that y all right everybody number six resolution approval of a multifam housing facility to be known as 500 East Main Street and the financing thereof with multif family housing revenue bonds and an agree aggregate amount not to exceed 29 million number seven update on the Redevelopment of 505 chap West Chapel Hill Street that is a presentation number eight um condemnation action to obtain one easement at 1505 Hall Street Southwest 66 number nine Solid Waste Management concrete repairs Engineering Services agreement with A1 Consulting Group
Incorporated number 10 Solid Waste Management yard was site repairs Engineering Services agreement with Smith Gardner incorporated number 11 First Amendment to contract between the city of Durham and Cranium holding incorporated number 12 resolution accepting the build it for Grant from United States tennis Association Southern for the repair of tennis courts at Southern boundaries Park not going to pull that just want to say this organization has been putting in work um nccu will be getting uh new courts been reappearing a lot of other courts around the city um they are putting out a lot of Grants and just really appreciative of it you're here good stuff all right council member I'll see you on the court soon all right anywhere there it is there it [Laughter] is all right we're gonna make something up that [Laughter]
challenge all right number 13 annual support agreement and license agreement for immunis software number 14 contract with securance LLC for virtual Chief Information Security Officer managed Services number 15 First Amendment to the contract with ESO Solutions Incorporated for a fire records management system number 16 this the presentation American Rescue plan act arpa update and then we uh have the uh Unified number 17 unified development ordinance text Amendment I'm the bus 19 um number 18 zoning map change Duke central campus addition and uh we have a citizen matter and I'll will address that first which is Quincy Hut and that is our consent agenda with items number four and number five p number four by council member Freeman number five by council member
RIS all right um isy in person here Mr Hut you may come on up welcome thanks for weathering the weather you uh you have a green button you have a button there that says on and off you can click that there you go yeah welcome you have three minutes okay since I do have just three minutes I'll try to read through my notes fairly briefly um for what it's worth I am the President of the trayor homeowners association I think we have a slide I don't know if they'll come up or not in case you don't know where we are we're up U near the Little River Reservoir and there're about 665 homes in that area and about 660 of them have pleaded with me to come over and ask you guys for help so that's why I'm here um basically we have a problem frankly with too many deer in our community Community
I know that may not be the biggest problem Durham has but it is for us so let me explain briefly what the problem is and then I'll try to tell you why I think we need your help um we've um done a lot of work over the last year we've got some statistics from various intelligent sources and they tell us that a normal level of deer in this area is about 10 to 15 Deer per square mile that that's doable um when it gets to like 30 deer per square mile then we start having conflicts between humans and deer cars Etc um tror is estimated by the North Carolina Wildlife Resources Commission to have about 70 deer per square mile quite frankly we're overrun um we're having experiences with uh deer car collisions um I could give you a lot of anecdotes but I'll move on we're very worried about the tick boring diseases that these deer carry
uh frankly a lot of them are suffering there's not really enough food vegetation up there we're having real problems with deer diseases um but in all honesty what really aggravates us most is the deer are simply consuming every tree Bush and plot of ground that we can possibly put forward for them to nibble on um we have got a lot of frustration with our residents we've done some surveys and about 76% of our residents are adamant that we have some kind of deer management control put in place that does get controversial because deer management means culling okay I guess we don't have any of the slides that I had so which is a shame I had two that would show you pictures of two of our will that come up they have the slid that just shows where Trin is I'm sure by now you guys kind of know uh go
to the next slide this one I threw up just for fun um I spent a lot of my life living in Burbank California hanging around people with Walt Disney and I've got to tell you Walt Disney has done us no favors uh Bambi is not nearly as benign as he appears in this picture Okay so the next slide this is a slide of one of our residents front yard uh I think there's 17 deer that you can count in this front yard this is not a typical this is normal the next slide is just another front yard I think there's 21 in that front yard we just we don't have enough grass up there to feed these little rascals um this next one I'm sorry I got personal one of my favorite flowers is a Gardino the internet says gardinos are deer resistant the little picture to my left on the bottom those were some gardinas I planted about a year ago to the left of my steps the middle picture is the same gardinas to the right on my steps and
one evening they're taken out the third picture is a closeup of the bottom one and you can see they have just plain nibble that thing right straight to the ground it's like somebody took a weed whacker to it this is not unusual at all uh we have consulted with uh professors from North Carina State University we have consulted with the directors of the North Carolina Wildlife Resource Commission for District 5 which includes the county of dur and the solution that they proposed to us is culling now we tried ideas of removal that doesn't work they did not want to go to South Carolina for some reason um birth control is frankly it doesn't work it sounds good too expensive am I over three minutes already I I'll Grant you another 30 seconds because you were trying to uh get the uh okay the uh presentation up okay basically our problem is in order to put a plan we've got a plan that we worked out with the north Carina Wildlife Resource Commission in with NC State in order to do that we need a
little bit of space in order to do a little bit of hunting we've contacted the bow hunting Association uh the most we can put together and you guys require us to do five acres the most we can put together is about two sites of five acres on those five acres you require us by drum city law to not release an arrow within 250 ft of a home we simply cannot meet that requirement we just cannot we some of our lots are one acre but our houses are in the middle we don't have 250 ft if we can't get a variance to either the acreage or the releasing of the bows or the arrows we cannot do a culling and this will continue to get worse this gets worse by the year so what we wanted to ask you was to work with us to come up with a plan and we'll we'll try to meet any requirement you have have but we will note that the city of Durham is the only entity in this area that has requirements like this the
other areas do not so we need your help love to talk to you more please contact us thank you so much okay I uh this is um I I grew up in eastern North Carolina and um I and I what you showed on the screen is um very uh it's something I saw a lot growing up so I know what you mean and I know what you're going through uh culturally where I'm from the the response would have been a little different we're going to manage this better here in the urban areas um but I do would I would like to invite uh Deputy manager city manager Keith chatwell to provide a response publicly and Mr hookup we got your email um I think I responded because I thought this was really interesting this thanks for bringing like a real on theground City issue um but uh we put some homework in on it it's not your biggest issue but it is for us Mr Mayor Mr Mayor protim members of
council uh Keith Chadwell Deputy city manager standing uh on behalf of my colleague Bo Ferguson who's away at the moment who's been putting in a great deal of work of and research associated with this situation uh there are one or two unusual and legal nuances to it with respect to the The Province and jurisdiction of nor state of North Carolina and the extent to which we interact with that with ordinances at at that contain the provisions that that's of concern of the neighborhood so we're down to the point of trying and understanding if variance is a legal option or it will it be a necessity to make a complete change to the ordinance and recommend to you something in that in that space uh the 250 a foot uh piece that he's talking about uh it it turns out the research would reveal that that's somewhat conservative it's conservative from a from a space that we were trying to be extremely uh have an extreme amount of safety involved with discharging bow and
arrow hun hunting with beyond that 5 Acres space uh which is not all that conservative in in our thoughts but we have just a tad bit more work to do with respect to that safety standard a final consultation with the law Department to talk about the the legal option and we'll bring a recommendation forward thank you so much any any idea ballpark figure around timeline um Mr fergus's absence I'm not 100% sure let me let me Hazard the guest to say it approximately two to three weeks okay sounds good thank you thank you for eloquently presenting that um so Mr Hut will be in touch um just look at the emails that have been sent to you and we'll go back and forth corresponding that way on behalf of you and the community out there treyburn thank you thanks for coming out drive safe all right we'll now move to item number four uh pulled by council member Freeman I I just wanted to put it on my
colleague's radar that I had um made some request of the city clerk's office because it seemed like some of those attendance specifically for me I know some of those dates and absences did not seem accurate and so I did want to make sure that there was a view because if my uh attendance is not accurate I'm wondering if some of the folks who are on that General list as well and so I would just like to ask if we could have a reviewed um I know that there's been a lot of transition in the clerk's office and so I was trying to figure out if maybe there was some some crease in the timeline so to speak and so just to give folks a heads up on that thank you council member Freeman I'm happy to go back and check those just let me know the dates that you're concerned about thank you thank you so much but P while you're up could you turn that mic off for me thanks item number five council member W sorry about that meeting schedule I think probably a lot of us have an
interest in this one um I think the main thing is a note that as we set the schedule um I think this year we dropped our work session in Late July and just combined that as one we did a work session and then this just a couple days ago in a regular meeting just one if we want to consider dropping same thing in the July 24th work session whether we want to consider that dropping that one and just moving that to the first day of the uh the regular council meeting coming back in August yes so I I was going to propose that as well um the same thing we did this year yeah I was pulling it often the conference that many of us attended that created the Quorum issue to begin with does usually fall um around that time the dates have not been set uh because I asked the organization local progress um but I will not be surprised um having gone to that conference many years um that's often when they hold it um so uh I can imagine a similar scenario
to this year again in July next year I mean I don't think there's a difference in doing it now versus doing it later and and my only request is that because several of us have other jobs um it's a little bit difficult that far in advance um although I guess if they're on my calendar I can probably work around them but it's the same process to do it now as it is to do it in June um and so I know we're busy with the budget but I might request that we wait uh until that time and we can see what we need to do I'm in favor of not having a meeting in July just want to be very clear uh but it was extremely difficult for me this year to have the two meetings on one day um I ended up working like a 14 or 15 hour day that day so um just it's a little bit difficult that far in advance gotcha um I uh I know for a fact I won't be here I'm renewing my 10 10 year vows in Zimbabwe uh so I won't be around uh the month of July uh in
2025 and you all are invited second Madam clerk will have you make a notice we're all going to Zimbabwe um so I I guess what we can do uh I mean what you have a point it will be you know we can do it now and make an adjustment later we can do it later make an adjustment but uh since it's right here before us um I I would yeah I would suggest uh just taking off and we can make any adjustment later um go ahead thank you Mr May yeah not withstanding for issues or or conflicts with schedule I thought the animating proposition was that we just wanted the whole month of July period uh you know what ever regardless of what's going on just to to make the month complete yeah so I just want to remind us that that that was what the issue was so what it's worth thank you mamman and thank you I I don't mind the month of July um what I will say is the full date is tough if you're working full-time
yeah okay would we not need to set a date in order to move it we just say that we want the the month of July and and we don't have a date certain for that work session would have to set a date right yeah so which is fine and I think if we just note that eventually we need to revisit it a couple months before I'm fine to do that now um let me go back and look at this item August four would be the council meeting that would be next yeah 25 August 4th so July 24th would be the date that we would changing so we would need to look at August 1st 2 or third for that work session and that's the weekend so August Aug a so we would do July 31st yeah okay
that's just one day so this is a this is a work session so uh Madam clerk you hear this this discussion um oh never mind Madame manager you hear this discussion um could could we just propose move moving this July 24th meeting to July 31st and I yeah I'll just come back um by that time um I mean I I mean is is is I want to be jet lag regardless it's 19 hour flight so um but I will say um at least it gives us still gives you pretty much a month can we just move this item to GBA instead of consent so that we can get this resolved also Mr Mayor I think you should probably talk to your wife before sorry she'd probably watch you right now okay knowing your wife she probably
has an opinion yeah exactly she's providing a comment right now um so um that so we'll put it on GBA and I'll work with staff to uh bring us something back how about that all right because the attorney over there looking some type of way I I I see I see the look that that conflicts with our annual conference the municipal attorney's annual conference but we will make sure you have a lawyer here when we get to that that date I hate to do that to y'all we'll figure it out we're going to put it on GBA we're GNA figure it out see I should have went to law school I can read the lawyer face all right right all right let's um I I know the audience think that we're a bunch of comedians I am so sorry we're just having a good time doing the work so we're gonna get to the work here um and I have some what is this yeah we're done okay so we're gonna just go
to the presentations now which one's first this is which number was that all right I mean yeah we're going to have to dress both up is the other one is the arpa update one is an hour you want to Swit it yeah we can switch it that's fine hey hi you can sit out we're gonna swap it okay we'll do ARA first super I know the arpa team is like yes
welcome um Madame Deputy City attorney Beyer Johnson Winbush city manager Deputy C Deputy City it's raining outside good uh afternoon mayor mayor protim members of council Beyer Winbush Deputy City Manager for operations um we are here to provide you an update on American Rescue plan act um I have here with me today it clicking for me here okay I have with me here today the team um I want to remind you all that you know when we realized that we were going to receive this $51 million in Federal funds there was no Department ready to take on this work and so we pulled together an entire team to do the community engagement to do the allocation plan and now the implementation managing the contracts and so we have the city manager's office obviously finance budget and also the
5 for affordable housing which was matched by Durham County and there are a list of additional projects that we can be really proud that we were able to use to fund um these activities for the community we approved 10 million for Fab Street quter project also city council approved additional investment in health and wellness based on a request for the county to match them in that area also uh 1 million heti reborn Justice movement which you approved on your last agenda we also received a million dollars in reciprocation from the county on working with them for arts and culture and they also are planning to give us an additional 750,000 to support our digital Equity program so this is been a great partnership with Durham
County so of the 34 organizations three organizations formerly withdrew from the process um and we have used those funds to support our affordable housing projects out of the 31 remaining two have completely completed their scope of work and receiv received their payments 25 contracts are in process three pending execution and two pending upcoming agenda Cycles mean meaning they have not come to you for approval yet so you have seen this slide before but we decided to go back and add the organization's name because it's all not always easy to determine by the project name what organization is being funded and I know sometimes you all get requests from organizations with funding and so this is a good reference to you for the organizations we are already funding so just to look at the approved proposals just to show the categories again we were able to support economic equity Community resiliency safe and stable housing and health and
wellness so we want to highlight a few of our projects we are so proud and grateful to have our nonprofit and our communitybased groups um helping us to deploy this money in the community if you look at these projects these are not projects that we would have done internally but again we want to focus our resources um in the community and as you all aware most organizations many other organizations use the funding inside the organization we were able to use most of our funding we were able to support nonprofit and Community Based organizations during the pandemic as well as help them build capacity as I've said before so that they will be a better position to apply for additional funding in the future so our book box program you can see here have you seen these in the community I've had folks say to me they have where the books are there for students to take and they replenish those um I believe they're going to be a 60 of those in the community for uh students to and for children to access the books and they replenish them as they are used this is a great
program greenstorm water this project is completed um we're happy to say it's completed we haven't paid out the funding so you don't see it in a dollar is just still working on with some transition getting us the invoices but the project is complete Knock Street Studios um this project is focused on entrepreneurship for Young Folks um they have done a great job with this project they've completed um this project and continue to do other work with grants from other organizations and I think some folks in the room have mentioned they have attended some of their events El Centro espano I'm working in the community uh working with around health and wellness for uh the community uh responding to the pandemic Echo um they are really focused on business um support skills training um the popup markets and doing a great job and these organizations were so excited to send us their pictures when they do work in the community because they want you to see the work that they're doing with the funding that they
receive from the city and we actually had more photos than we can use we had to take out some videos and photos because the file was too large but there's a lot of work going on and we're doing the team is doing site visits they're going to these events they're sending us their pictures and obviously with their required reporting just real quick I also want to shout them out for their initiative to do 3,000 meals in three weeks I joined them at a popup Market recently at uh Lakewood social and it was just amazing to see those young kids doing such um impactful work yes yes much of this funding has really supported the young people um in in our community um be connected Durham and Beyond they're really focused on celebrating historic hati um doing community engagement um in the community around the fa Street quarter area um Durham children's initiatives connected working with students to ensure a pipeline to Career with um good wages and then the cook Center social
Equity as you all may recall they also receive a grant uh from us the work they're doing is in part partnership with the institute in Carolina Small Business Development Fund they're actually uh serving um small businesses um to determine what the impact of the pandemic on those businesses and then creating some of the task force the technical assistance and other work that's needed to support these businesses businesses and think about resiliency in future um events like we've had and here's a picture U of the um podcast we did with Dr Dar and the mayor as well Victoria and Kevin um that was a great podcast and I think we sent it out and was out on social media but we had a great time talking about black entreprene entrepreneurship in Durham so some of the activities here um we have completed 15 of the 83 Des reviews just looking at the reports we have completed 20 site visits we meaning not me really the team here um they have done site visits we um many of the organizations are excited they invite us
6 million we've held 14 open ARA office hours for subrecipients this is an opportunity for sub REI recipients to get assistance with you know if they have issues with you know making making sure that invoices are correct if they have to split invoices out between um other organization or grantors making sure that they can complete their report supporting them and getting their reports correct um we want to make sure that they we can get them their money as fast as possible and so by coming to those um meetings and talking about what they're going to be presenting so that when it comes to us it can get through
the process fast and we can get them their checks so the fway street quarter project you're familiar with this project which is focused on Street improvements uh technical assistance um working with North Carolina Central University and opportunities for preservation ownership um and other other activities in the corter so here's a Reconciliation of the funding and I know I'm for me I'm kind of sitting in that block there with the dollar amount but um so um you you saw this before but we've done some refinement of the numbers um we actually this is the remaining funding that's unobligated um and so we the US Treasury is recommending that any funding that you have un obligated that you focus it on H housing related activities um we have received obviously you all have received requests for funding from many organizations what we propose using this funding for is to provide um relief to
Duram hous and Authority residents with their B B es that Ur during the co uh era so those many of those residents have payment plans in addition to paying their monthly rent they have to make the payments on those payment plans we like to apply this and we would only apply it to the P past due rent that accured during covid so that they can redo their payment plans bring down that payment so it'll be less likely that they would face um issues related to having not being able to make that payment plan um we think that this is in line what the US Treasury is recommending obviously this is a decision that has to be made by city council uh we would not want to start another process with this amount of money um again the funds have to be obligated by December 31st this would be uh a one-time uh payment on those accounts and um Durham Housing Authority has agreed to redo the payments based on
the new exec balance start the the the residents back over on their payment plan we think this is a very good good use of this funding again at City council's uh decision so some potential reallocations um there are a total um of five organizations who do not yet have a contract in place we're contining to work with those organizations there are some organizations um that we are concerned about their ability to fulfill their contracts within the time required um we we some of those have come that number has come down since this presentation because we are receiving invoices daily so for example one organization that was included in there s submitted an invoice this week for half of their funding so they've caught up essentially so this changes regularly but we wanted to be able to at a a point in time give you a number um that we're concerned that we may need to do some reallocation again the number moves daily
so uh what we're doing to support those organizations I mentioned earlier the meetings but each of the organizations have had a one-onone meeting with the staff the staff has to voiced their concerns they've offered them assistance in terms of helping them make sure that they can have the right documentation if they've done the work again I mentioned one organization they've done the work but they need to get their invoices together they need to get their invoices in order that we can accept um staff is going out doing desk reviews with them helping them complete their reports site visits and we have again the bi-weekly open arpa Office hours so what we propose is a reallocation timeline um we want to continue the work with the organizations first and foremost we want these organizations to receive the funding but we also have to make sure that we do not have to give the money back to the federal government because it's not obligated um so we want to come back in O October with a updated number we want
to share our alloc reallocation plan with city council that could be around particular categories that are eligible that could be around uh particular um um issues you want to address in a community but we want to come back in October in November we want to bring those contracts back to council and then we want the sub recipients to complete the work they'll have until December 2026 um to expend all of the funds and that is the re reallocation timeline we're proposing today so that is the end of my presentation I'm happy to answer any questions again I have the entire team here with me today um to uh respond to any questions as necessary thank you so much all right I'll bring this before the council Madam um col um councilwoman Freeman thank you um I appreciate the presentation I thank you and the staff for um kind of pulling all this together
in the last two years and just acknowledging that it's been a very heavy lift 51 million is a large amount I think um system the counil came up with uh has been working and I do want to just ask the question on the presentation for I think it's slide 15 I'm having some trouble with my uh website I don't know what's going on but um you said 24 well you said 25 are are moving but it said 24 I just want to make sure if it was 24 or 25 okay and then um and then on there was another SL I'm sorry a different Slide the 14 open arpa Office hours seems really low because I know I've been in at least four of the office hours conversations and uh I know it could I know I didn't just miss 10 uh so I just wanted to figure out how you were counting office hours and specifically for those because you said sub recipients I think those are specific ones
right so office hours is a specific initiative we started at the beginning of the year um that we're holding every Tuesday at 10: um on teams we'll be transitioning into a zoom platform I'm Victoria samayo I'm the arpa grants manager good afternoon everyone um so that is different than the onetoone standing meetings it's an addition to and I and I point that out just so my colleagues um don't miss that there's a lot lot of hours being spent on this I'm sure you've been included in in a lot of those conversations but there's a lot of City time being spent on this and um I appreciate also I want to add the acknowledgement of the interest being reallocated into the projects as well because I think that can get missed and this would be the reason I would love to figure out how to take a little bit of this on a road show I'm looking at staff um because there are some of our towns and cities and Villages that are not as apt at at pulling this together and having some trouble and they will end up
sending those dollars back to the federal government if they don't figure it out before December 31st 2025 24 this year yes so yeah they got till December to figure out how we did it here and um yes I want to make sure they know how to it yes yes those my comments questions and thank you and this team a great team they meet um weekly um to go over everything that's outstanding and make assignments about following up of pulling up the dashboard seeing what activity or not activity with organizations following up with them saying we haven't received the invoice we haven't heard from you um we do you need to meet with us so they they're working on this on a daily basis and reconciling on a weekly basis and moving with the next steps to try to again we want to make sure these organizations if possible get the money that you all approve for them and then just one other question is there a location where all of the because you have the list now with the with the organization names is there a list where their project are also shared to the general public because I feel like I get
some of those questions as well yes that that is on the oper website as well just want to make sure that's stated that they are all on the ABS absolutely thank you thank you Mr Mayor this is a excellent presentation just want to extend a lot of um gratitude to to y'all because I know it's been a heavy lift um I've said it before at some point maybe when it's all actually been obligated it would be very nice to have like a celebration of some kind um so that again the projects the nonprofits um could come to City Hall in some way uh staff that have been working on this so diligently uh I've said it you know if the bond goes through when when the bond goes through same thing we need to do a better job celebrating our wins um to the community here I think derome does a great job telling its story across uh the country obviously because we win a lot of stuff and I like to win um but I think telling that story here that this was a transformative process this is not
what a lot of communities did uh a lot of folks did not spend their arpa dollars in this way putting it back out there um and that was something that staff was really clear and actually manager paig this was really a lot of your vision from the get the money was for the community we were going to spend that money in the community um so I I really like this um also the idea of like where do we um we're going to we're going to say that that all of these things that we're a little bit worried about they're all going to send their invoices in it's going to be great um but the the that 314,000 that we know is not um um obligated uh at least from my perspective I think that staff's plan sounds good I want to hear from colleagues but um we have had a pattern of kind of anything we have putting it back into housing and I think it's been a good strategy um that's all thank you thank you council member cook yes um I'm just going to Echo my colleagues I'm I'm looking at all of these numbers of all the activities that
y'all have done hours that y'all spent and it's just super impressive it's a lot of money to move and I know that y'all didn't have any there wasn't like a ton of warning when we got it so that's awesome and and it's a it's a cool place to come in sort of at the end of this as y'all have already like made the decisions on where it's going and and sort of had these relationships with all these organizations in the community um but I just want to in my thinks as well um I actually if could you go back to the slide that talked about the activities completed and related performance measures I would love to just like have a better understanding of what those entailed because you you talked about desk reviews as opposed to site visits and annual reviews and I was wondering if you just talk a little bit more in detail about the three of those and what what that actually looks like in practice I'll have Victoria do that so she's actually managing those activities please can't get the clicker to click
back but um when we do desk reviews it's actually looking at the contractual agreements and obligations versus the scope of work and what needs to happen um we go through that some dependent on the risk assignment level that came out of our city policy of where organizations are um we may go every quarter to look back at those but we keep those at the Forefront annual reviews if their scope of work is something that uh continued on for multi- years we look at that and see where their spending is versus where they are versus what they've remitted and what we've seen on those site visits site visits are just that um we do not typically we do not pop up um at a site visit or an event we let organizations know ahead of time that something is coming up doe what's the best time to give them the opportunity to prepare um we put a lot of emphasis in the arpa team on Preparation and being ready to
respond um so we don't like to just with a visit um the office hours are standing all uh organizations that have a contract in place have that invitation and they are welcome to come in for as long as they'd like to in that office hour space if they are finding that it's something more technical then they can set a onetoone appointment with us or some organizations do have a standing time um that they will do that with the team well so the specifically for the desk reviews it was 15 out of 83 how did we get that 83 number so that comes from that risk assignment level if a contract will have one then that would increase our number if they have two that was pre prescribed on in terms of and so a lot of these desk reviews are going to be happening over the next two years that's why that is so large M same with the site visits and annual reviews as well gotcha and as more contracts go through then that
number may change based on what those contracts would require okay gotcha and then um my next question might be I'm not sure wants to answer that but my next question is a little bit more in detail about the city recommendation for the one-time payments on the payment plans I will turn it back over to DCM W yes thank you you just tell me like what that looks like is this a group of folks that we already have identified will folks need to apply like what is what do yall Envision that looking like we already have the list um which is how we came up with the number which is around 305,000 we have the list we had to get the list because we have to make sure that the uh the the pass through balances occurred during the co period so we had to document that so we have all of those accounts we have what the pass through balances are from the eligibility debt beginning date um to date we um wanted to do that again
because we want to make sure that folks can have a lower payment plan if possible and some of the residents have not entered into an agreement because of the amount you know if if you can't uh pay that amount yes mad manager um thank thank you Mr Mayor I was just also going to say you know during the throws of covid um while there was Federal funding for rental assistance and our Community Development Department uh in some of our prioritization did prioritize 30% or below area median income for folks to get assistance some of some of our residents still were not were not able to receive assistance during that time you're probably aware of that so this we we really do want to prioritize our residents the lowest levels of income when we have onetime funding like this so it is it's going to be that 30 we're looking at that 30 Ami cap yes yes and
and you said you've already identified the folks and they some of them are already on payment plans but some of them had not been on payment plans correct due to a large debt that is correct I agree with um my colleague I think that's an awesome thing I mean as the manager has stated I'm I'm intimately aware of how um of how rental assistance went during the pandemic and um yeah I know a lot of and there's a lot of concern specifically around I think folks living at uh subsidized housing that that the payments sort of just haven't really gotten back off the ground and what I run into talking to people is exactly what you're saying which is that they look at their past du balance and they think how can I ever ever even make a dent and so um I I think that this is a this is a great idea because it not only is like helpful to the community but I think it also is empowering to folks to be able to get back on a plan to make those payments folks want to pay their rent almost always and so I I love the idea of
giving that leg up so thank you for that recommendation I think that's a smart way of of doing what the treasury suggested but in a way that works for Durham so thank you Mr Mayor first of all thank you so much Miss wimbush for the presentation and the great work you on your team has kind of turned on a dime and this is before I was on the council but I understand the amount of work you put in so I appreciate that also want to give a shout out you know this was at a time if you all remember this is like the depth of covid right unemployment was like what like 25% plus small businesses are struggling so the federal government engaged in a massive stimulus to get people keep people in their houses get businesses back going so this is a a major federal stimulus has had ongoing impact in Durham so I think we got to give a shout out to the feds we often criticize them for what they're not doing this was a major stimulus that made a big difference um the second thing is I do want to sort of echo what my colleagues have said I am the this council's representative to to the durm Housing Authority board I think Mr Scott is in the back maybe yeah um so we monthly look at delinquencies
and different housing properties and as you said some folks have not out payment plan because the AAR are so large and so this is a big way to help us get back to sort of some semblance of much more sustainability and our finances at DHA so really appreciate the idea here and I think this is going to affect the or benefit the folks who are the least able and the most housing challenge in our community so I really appreciate that recommendation I just have two questions one is on the um uh on the desk reviews and c and and annual reports or annual reviews you've received like uh and for for Mrs uh SEO right can you tell us more about what you've learned what in terms of impact like what you know what does that look like oh yes we've learned a lot um we've had some organization share how much it taught them about their own processes and operations um if they are not direct service providers how to connect with direct service providers um if they this grant allowed them to give direct service provision that that was not their strength but
that they would capitalize on what their strengths are and rather partner with other people that do direct service provision um we've learned a lot about um how to help the nonprofit self- sustain within themselves whether that is is going to be to look at other nonprofits doing something around the same thing and Scaffolding out out of that or if it is that they really need to put a little bit more um attention to hiring staff that can help them through financial Audits and reviews and things like that we've had some jobs open up where they've actually contracted or looked to bring on staff that can help speak to those things it's been very eye openening a beautiful experience a hard experience um but definitely one worth um worth it great thank you I I'm sure we'll hear more about that in the future so thank you for that um last question Miss wimbush so just on the timeline so the the one thing I'm concerned about is that assuming we approved contracts in
November of 20124 right that doesn't mean the dollars are obligated right so so it city council would approve the contract yes yes and then we would we would we would get the organization assigned a contract we would execute the contract next yes but this work will be going on before you actually see it so we will be working um on this process you won't we will not the contracts will not come to you until then but we will identify how we want to recommend uh the organizations and we will have most of the information in advance so we believe we can do it in that timeline the problem is we want to give organizations who have been awarded funding the most opportunity to use those funds because they the funds are must be obligated they will have been obligated by December but then they haveen until 2026 to spend the fund so it puts you in a tough situation where you want to where or organization will say actually I have until December 2026 to spend the money and we're like well
based on your progress so it's kind of a negotiation there where they may be able to we may be able to retract some of the funding but not not all the funding it's just a tough situation when you given them till December 2026 but they're not making progress to have that conversation yeah well thank I appreciate you watching that it's something we're going to want to watch very closely this fall as as the deadlines come up so absolutely absolutely again our goal is to make sure the organizations to continue to work with them to make sure they are able to spend the funding or in our one-on-one meetings with them that they report to us that they are not going to be able to spend the funding and we have more time so it's the negotiation it's the conversation so that it's a winwin for us as well as the organization and so the ones that would be appr contracts approved in November 2024 by the council those are that those won't be a surprise those will be organizations we've been working with so they know that when they get that approval they need to execute those before they the C absolutely
absolutely thank you Mr Mayor and thank you colleagues for some great questions Madam Deputy thank you so much for for a yman yo person's job that the staff has done with all of this money um I have some do have some questions specifically about the the designations we're using and and what the the Practical impact is about the money but for before I ask my questions I do want to thank um council member Freeman and associate myself with her comments there the uh North Carolina league has good representation from Durham and we there's a whole part of our org chart um dedicated to helping all of our towns and Villages and hamlets around the state make sure that the arpa money gets spent and Durham gets tapped all the time the Duram template whether it's equity whether it's our work in housing um so I want to assure her that any Ingenuity coming out of Durham will certainly be um communicated uh around the state via the league and and they're we're paying people actually um to make sure that ARA money is spent around the state uh effectively so I want to thank her for for leaning in on that so my question
specifically about the money is the contracts that we have concerned about and the one concerned and then ones folks that don't have contracts in place what is the line between um reallocation and that money actually becoming unobligated again is is does is there a line that you can cross where that money that we're deeming for reallocation could actually become unobligated um yes if we terminate the contract or amended you can see where I'm going I guess my question is is does reallocation is that tethered um strictly to organizations that are already in the timeline or could we conceivably be looking at other organizations or or revetting others or accepting new applications um if those contracts don't uh come to fruition and do we have the time for that we could do any of those um we have
not decided um again we're hopeful that we'll be able to work this through with those organizations um again as we talked about the funding that we are will provide to DHA or to the residents of DHA it is we would not want to open up a full process um because again the time we would not have time to do that we would want to focus in on a specific maybe one of the categories um or maybe one particular demographic of the community youth we would want we could also look at organizations um that have already come to us to ask for funding uh we have all of their information we could add funding to organizations that are doing well with their contract we've had several organizations to ask for additional funding we could use the money inside our organization because that's always an option to use it internally for work that we're doing that's eligible so if we were doing something with Parks and Recreation or the office of uh work economic and Workforce Development if we were doing work we were extending work or building
capacity inside the organization so that has not been decided obviously obviously we would choose um a process that matches the funding so if it's a small amount of funding we wouldn't want to open up a process we may want to send a contract we may want to use the funding inside if it's the large amount me we we might want to open it up to um the community but focus on a specific category like housing or like youth um so we have not decided we want to match the process with the funding that's available sure I that and that's helpful I I guess and and intellectually I'm trying to look at that $314,700 56 as static it in other words the Delta between that amount and the amount of contracts that we're waiting on that that six million plus that three million if if in the worst case scenario that 9 million plus dollars is spoken for we're gonna
definitely in other words it won't fall into that 314,000 is is or you what I'm saying if if if I'm I'm looking at this 314 as unobligated and I understand there's some concerns or or some more work to be done with the 9 million that five contract five contracts not yet in place in the additional contracts of concern and I'm I'm just wondering is there a firewall that none of that 9 million will augment that 300,000 line that we have some that we're in the work is done that we can we would not have any funds that would be unobligated that we would not have to use that we would have to return to the federal government yeah I don't want to give no money back right yes yes get all that money that all right that's it thank you thank you so much thank you for the great work thank you Mr Mayor thank you I just have one request um um with the timeline can we just make sure that we do it on the the first round of October meetings and not the second round um because to your point there might be some decisions and I think that we're going to need those
extra two weeks yes absolutely so that that's the only thing because any plan moving forward even if it's internal it still has to get vetted and and and whatnot and we we're going to want that that time so I guess that's my one request okay because it just says October and I'm like well there's two cycles in October which one um that's all thank you thank you thank you all um just from my comments thank you to the staff you guys have done an amazing job this has been very complex work um and I witness you all figuring it out I remember when I first came on Counsel I was like they want to do what this is a lot of contracts and uh but you know you guys did what Durham does you know we figure it out and then we lead and and we stand out amongst the rest and um so I'm just really honored to um be on this council with a staff like you guys so all right know giving me more reasons why der is dope I really appreciate you
all right um colleagues are we good to keep keep going you need a break or anything because the next one's going to be pretty long be good all right let's let's let's move it on Nate you good all right cool welcome all right last item we're going to be out of here in an hour Jesus I remember you know the wood is table the uh you know the wood the table is wood all right ready when you are welcome
I got it I got it yep let me see if it works that's a beautiful city so I'm gonna use the mouse mouse over here by the mouse over here by that okay that working the keyboard's okay okay super thank you appreciate it okay okay okay super good afternoon uh mayor members of council my name is Stacy Poston and the general Services Department here today to talk about an update on the 505 West Chapel Hill Street project and the progress that we've
made okay okay all right we're making progress all right super thank you okay all right so just clicking on that excellent okay so um here today to talk to you about where we are at we were last before Council in November um asking for uh seeking concurrence on the RF the draft RFP and the six priority goals Council approved that from uh from that period of time we um issued an RFP we have had developer interviews we have had um lots of Q&A with the development firms and we're here to today to recommend moving and advancing into negotiations with the people's Corporation um I want to say today that the people's Corporation is here um Donahue peoples is here as well as some other members of the team samit construction HKS Architects surface 678 Thomas and Hutton and Mitch lens engineering so we have a number of um
developers from the people's Corporation here to answer questions um should should those uh arise and we can't answer them ourselves additionally I wanted to note that we've had a number of City Department staff who are experts in their in their area of discipline um participate in the evaluation of this answer questions be supportive to the general Services Department as we've LED this process so Regional and Community Development always great help Tim flora and the finance department Bo de brinsky and the planning department and Sean Eagan and the transportation department have all been intimately involved in this activities as well as Kim and her team and the attorney's office I should have put them up there apologies for that um so as I mentioned the RFP was released back in November after Council concurrence uh responses came in in March the evaluation committee spent some time with the proposals they are significant and uh detailed proposals both in the narrative form and in the financial form we had developer in-person interviews here in Durham and then we are at the stage now that for
Council to consider um staff's recommendations to advance um so we had six development priorities in the RFP that Council approved and I'm just going to sort of run through those as a refresher to us all um first in and in priority order was creation of a significant uh number of affordable housing units at the 60% or below area median income um and the intention was to try to make those units perpetually affordable for residents of our community additionally we wanted to pursue preservation of the existing building um and and this is where we allowed sort of two different solutions right a base scenario that included and was a requirement to submit a base scenario that included the preservation of the building alternately in the RFP developers were also allowed to present an alternate scenario and some of the proposers did that and the alternate scenario considered what the site might look like if the building was removed from consideration or was removed from the site as a third um priority goal we
wanted to have a significant component of commercial it could be office or lab or hotel or retail the developer we we really wanted to look to them to tell us what they thought could happen in the market and what was feasible with a floor of 250,000 Square ft additionally one of our other goals was to create you know a signature development on this 4 ACR site utilizing best practices in Urban Design creating an activated street level experience and really creating a transformative project on this 4 Acre Site next uh we had a new goal which was to really celebrate the cultural heritage of Durham in particular the hati Legacy and the West End and what that means for our community and to try to elevate that as a part of the programming and activities that were happening and the design of of the site and the proposal and last we wanted to have Revenue generation over the long term including production of tax revenue as a part of the on-site development as a reminder we had also uh rezoned this parcel so there is an
approved development plan for this parcel uh in that approved development plan it requires a minimum of 280 uh residential units um of affordable housing and 250 to 450,000 ft of commercial place as the floor additionally um Council priorities in the downtown design districts which are are baked into the plane Department's work uh also require additionally um housing units Green Space and pedestrial infrastructure as a part of the design so all of these goals and this development plan are working together and the proposals that we received and we will go through and and outline for you in in the proposals um which we feel like met those all six goals where some of them were more uh advantageous than others were some really shown um I also want to mention that um we you received a priority memo uh that had financial information in it so I wanted to say that the memo that you had originally received was correct and accurate and the financial updates that you received um so the what has been public uh and
online that we have been had had publicly available since June was our accurate information and then recently we have looked at as we've been having conversations with Bond Council whether the the the rates that we Ed in our models were appropriate and as we've talked about what kind of bond we might issue we moved and we've we've modifi those numbers so we will present both of those numbers sets of numbers to you today um moving from a consideration a taxable to non-taxable Bond and using a 6% interest rate which we think is more appropriate for the market today um obviously conditions will continue change this as this project moves forward and we will adapt as necessary in our financial modeling so with that I wanted to just bring um Mark Kachi up here he's with hrna advisors and he's been a partner with us and doing a lot of the financial analysis so he's going to present the rest of the uh good afternoon um mayor mayor protm city manager council members uh
pleasure to be speaking with you today uh so just as a reminder of of who's been who responded to these proposals we uh back in November we qualified six developers to continue on in this process three developers submitted responses um with ultimately five proposals U ACD submitted the Bas scenario proposal Conifer submitted both the base and the alternative and the people's Corporation submitted both the base in the alternative and we'll be going through all of those today with some detail um first just to set the stage in terms of the different proposals that were submitted starting with acreage uh this was primarily a residential proposal 225 Market residential units alongside 101 units at 60% Ami or below terms of their commercial program they had 3,000 square feet of retail with no other components of office lab or hotel which were available uses that developers could propose upon as part of their commercial program in addition
uh they proposed popup retail space as part of their open space activation program and they set aside art and Community spaces as part of the the physical layout of their program without specifying specific square footage we received two proposals from Conifer as I mentioned um there's a base and alternative scenario many of the changes are physical in terms of how the site is laid out um but there are small differences in the program and so you can see um 156 units of Market residential in the base to 146 in the alternative a little bit of a differentiation in the affordable program 81 units at 60% Ami which would be considered advantageous based on the RFP uh criteria that we set back in November and uh slight difference in they also provided units at 80 to 100% Ami and those you know the unit counts are slightly different so not under the 60% threshold but still rent restricted units that you know I think provide additional affordable units to the community and then in total about 150,000 ft of commercial space
again small differences between office and Retail between the two programs But ultimately 150,000 stare feet uh and and their proposal they suggested that the office would be medical office one of the pieces that we of information we received in the interviews is that they were not necessarily tied to the medical office program uh but there would be uh just generally speaking commercial office available as part of their uh proposed development program and then additionally 13 to 16,000 ft of community space between the two Alternatives and then the people's corporation uh total uh 288 units of of market rate housing about 90% of that is for rent about 10% of that is for sale so condominium units within the broad residential program 92 units at 60% Ami or below which crosses the highly advantageous threshold that we set in the RFP in November and then um slight slight changes in their overall commercial program and their base program it comes out at about 255,000 F feet of commercial space in their alternative program it rounds
out to be just about 250,000 but meeting the 250,000 square foot threshold um one of the main differences is in the base proposal where they maintain the Milton small building they propose a hotel as part of that rehabilitation in their alternative when they remove the building the the foundational proposal that they submitted has a Community Center Museum as one of the critical components of their program uh there's some variation there we'll talk about that as we go along okay there we go so I'm not going to go into too much detail here but this is the scoring that the evaluation committee settled on the dark green ha that suggests the highly advantageous lighter green a is advantageous and then the gray not advantageous is Na and then in the two boxes they're not applicable where the historic preservation was not relevant to the proposal as we go through the descriptions of each of these submissions um we can sort of talk about why each of these were scored the way that they were but ultimately these
are recommendations that were affirmed by the evaluation committee back in June and so as we go into each proposal before I want to use this as as sort of a template for how we go through this conversation so as Stacy mentioned um these were the terms and they were accurate when they were posted back in July in further consultation with City Finance we've made some adjustments in terms of how we've we've calculated some of these and so for each you'll see what's been posted publicly and then the refinements that have been made as I walk through each of these terms we're going to talk about some of the changes that have made so everyone's on the same page about what the changes have been but before I even do that I want to go through and talk about we have three developers they all propose different financial terms and there are different types of terms and so I just want to you know set set a level ground here on what we're talking about um there have been some of the developers propos an upfront payment which is part of the transfer of land uh so in in these scenarios you would have the land being eventually owned by the developer the city would
sell the land to the developer and they would own it out right for ongoing rent payments we had Conifer suggest that the city would continue to own the land but then lease improvements to the developer and in that sense there' be a ground Le scenario where ground rent payments would come back to the city over time so in this case it's not relevant to agage because they did not have a ground lease structure in some uh cases we have direct subsidies cash subsidies to devel Vel opers to support development we'll talk about those when they're relevant uh between loan payments to the city and The Limited obligation Bond payments here's where we have to sort of address some of the changes that have been made so previously we made an assumption and this was initially in consultation with City Finance we felt at that time that a tax exempt Bond at 4% interest was an appropriate way to model the different loan types and and offers that we saw across the developers each developer proposed different principles terms interest rates so to level set and think about the opportunity cost of the city's money we wanted to use one normalizing
structure to understand how the city benefits or or um suffers in some way as a result of that structure and so one of the major changes that we've made in going from that 4% tax exempt Bond we've now moved to a 6% taxable Bond and so this is in part again to sort of align with typical precedents and also to align with some of the Baseline expectations of the local government Commission in terms of their best practices in cities issuing debt another important change is that we modeled this initially as an advertising loan so interest paid back first and the principal increases over time um one of the changes that the local government commission asked us to make was to align this with their best practices which would be level principal repayment so there are higher payments up front as the interest comes down as the principal declines um those payments decrease over time so effectively the city would would minim minimize their risk in this way with more payment taking place up front there's a capital event proceeds line which will only be relevant to the people's Corporation so I'll talk about
3 million loan paid back over 20 years at 1% interest only and so
5 okay so now that we've gone through all this as we go through the individual offers from the developers I think this will go much much quicker so just quickly to sort of Orient you to the proposal we have a few of these slides here they are just meant to give visual representation to what developers proposed you see the Milton small building off to the right that is a that is one of their affordable housing um developments they have two of
them on their campus comprising the 101 total affordable housing units and then the market rid Residential Building in the center you can see their open space layout some of the popup retail that they discussed as well as some of the overall programming to activate the space quickly to walk through strengths and weaknesses and risks of each of these proposals starting with acreage um compared acreage to the other developers smaller Financial expectations upfront from the city uh so you know less Capital that the city needs to issue a front they deliver 101 rent restricted units at 60% Ami or below so this is one the highest number but two considered to be highly advantageous given the criteria they preserve the building and they also provide art gallery and Community spaces uh as a part of their physical development they do not offer really any commercial program besides that $3,000 sare feet of physical retail they do have the popup retail but again not part of the physical program given the site entitlements that are currently in place this underutilizes what the city has sort of deemed to be the appropriate potential for the site um
and though they have sort of an approach to placemaking they do not really specify how it it sort of pays homage to the hati community and so you know we thought that there wasn't really a a a sense of of um how that Community was being incorporated into the vision for the site in terms of risks uh one thing I want to point out so U lowincome housing tax credits uh each of the developers rely on some form of lowincome housing tax credit in this case acreage is relying on two 9% Awards I think one of the main difference is there's a 9% award and a 4% award one of the main uh components of the 9% award is that it's competitive and so developers will have to compete against other projects locally to potentially receive those Awards if they compete against other projects and do not receive them and it's critical to fund the project that could lead to project delays and so the Reliance on two separate 9% ltech Awards creates a certain amount of risk so we want to highlight that um one of the drawbacks I
think going back to that sixth priority was the city's potential participation in the site long term that doesn't take place here and then for each of these developers they offer City Loans I mentioned this before and what I didn't mention before is that they're all in a subordinate position and so you'll see this risk consistent between um each developer proposal that ultimately the city does would not have recourse there would be a primary lender that would have recourse over the land and so that's something that when the city thinks about issuing debt it should be aware of great so now moving to Conifer they have a base and alternative proposal they're very similar so I'll move through the alternative much quicker than I move through the base uh but so upfront Conifer so these are the numbers that have been oh sorry oh these are the numbers that have been posted online publicly and these are updated numbers and so as part of the financial terms they offer a 65-year ground lease this is where you see the ongoing rent
4 million in Gross cash value but when we adjust for the cost of time ultimately the net present value is a negative 9 million again just a little bit of the site here you see um the Milton small building off to the right and this is again affordable residential um I think that's the Residential Building towards the back um and you can see some of their open space orientation
here uh so quickly the strengths weaknesses and risks are effectively the same between the base and the alternative so I just want to highlight this applies to both um 81 rent restricted units which is considered to be advantageous based on how it's lighted out laid sorry forgive me laid out within the proposals and within the RFP 45 additional rent restricted units not below the 60% threshold but still setting aside rent restricted units for the city and for the community they preserve the building and they include 150,000 feet of commercial alongside the ground lease payments over time they do not fully utilize the site development potential they do not necessarily speak to the hati Community really in any way I don't even think they mentioned it in their proposal the community in particular and one thing that came up uh it's not clearly evident in their proposal but we learned this during the interview session is that they are proposing to build a new street through the middle of the site uh which the evaluation commit committee considered to be uh not a strength so ultimately a weakness of their proposal um how it may disrupt
ultimately site orientation because it's a 1% loan and and again a City Loan in subordinate position we want to highlight that ultimate risk they also rely on a 9% Tech award so the same competitive risk also applies there and then we also want to point out that um in evaluating some of the qualifications that they submitted they did not have the same kind of large scale mixed juice development experience specifically commercial development in a mixed juuse environment similar to durm and so that I don't want to suggest that they're not capable of doing this I think that without that experience it's possible that if they were to be chosen as the developer that could potentially lead to delays cost overruns that weren't projected because they just haven't done this type of work before so then quickly the Conifer alternative uh I think this this image actually does a great job of showing the main difference in the site this is their office building they initially had this in the back of the site so towards the Southeastern Corner uh with the Milton small removed they move it to the
6 million this shows you again the orientation of the open space and shows the office building up in the corner here and then I won't walk through the strengths weaknesses and RIS again because again they're very much the same as um the base
8 million in direct subsidy to support the hotel uh Rehabilitation so the mil small Rehabilitation they offer in their loan terms they offer 6% uh so the ultimate
5% discount rate across the project we wanted to adjust for the contingency here because the site success is not something that the city can guarantee nor can people's guarantee and so we wanted to place a more conservative discount rate upon there and so that is now weighed at a 10% rate
6 million again um the site orientation uh just to give you a sense of how the buildings work together you can see the you know sort of the open space component when we get to the alternative I'll speak a little bit more to the um individual placemaking pieces that are there because those are consistent between the two proposals uh but ultimately they very much addressed um and did a lot of Engagement up front um to engage with folks across the community to understand what some of these placemaking elements could look like um and actually you know this proposal in some way shape or form it was was as sort of defined as it was in the RFP they did that in the RFQ stage so the city was able to understand what some of the um site layout components would be very early on and so quickly to walk through the strains the weaknesses and the risks 92
8 million subsidy that the city would have to give out upfront along with the risk of the city loan and subordinate position which I I didn't mention and forgive me I didn't mention this the first time through the size of the loan is $57 million so of the three loans that we've discussed or sorry the five loans that we've discussed across the three proposals um this is one of the larger um in terms of scale and then ultimately like how the
city participates in the success of the site is limited is contingent upon the site success one other thing we just want to point out as a risk um one of the conversations or we had a few conversations I should say with developers across the triangle to test some of the costs that we saw not just with pees but with other developers as well and one of the questions that was brought up was with their expectations on construction for lab space what we heard from developers was that this um accounted for some of the hard cost construction and soft cost construction for the shell of the building but tenant improvements weren't included in those costs at least from their their opinion we heard from their um construction contractor as a part of their team that these are very much in line with triangle estimates so just to be upfront you know we've heard two different stories on this and we sort of Leave it to you to parse through those differences so that completes the base proposal and now moving into the alternative many similarities so I will
move faster um I will go back actually to start so up front you see you know right off the bat the major difference is this community center that sits in front the hotel has been removed small building has been removed um and it is a combination of a community center and a museum space and on the and on the top floor is a green space at least that's how it's represented in the designs and so this is what ultimately replaces that commercial use um there are components to this that you know I think are worth understanding because there's a little bit of optionality for the city what they have suggested is that the city can if they were to choose this proposal swap out the community center museum for a revenue generating use um which upon further conversation it's not by no means are they sort of suggesting one direct path but I think the immediate suggestion was you potentially mixed use sorry mixed income housing so additional mixed income housing as part of the development so to walk through their deal terms uh with the removal of the hotel and the addition of the community center that removes The Upfront pain
3 million and the net present value is $17 million and again so you can see one more perspective on the community center space the green space on the roof and then also this is where you get a little bit more of the sense of what's happening in between the buildings um I there are there are specific names that are there's a cultural walk there's a you know Central green all these sort of individual programming pieces that comprise a larger open space component
including a very sort of engaging and activating commitment to the hati Community one of the commitments that people's makes in their proposal and they reiterated during their interviews is that they would continue to engage the community to refine these Concepts and so uh this is very much something that they took an initial um swipe thinking about what what open the commitment of the hati Community would look like but very much open to you know further discussion with the community and many of the strengths that we Es are the same I'll highlight the ones that are different I mentioned the replacement of the cultural center with a revenue generating use that would change The Upfront payment from0 to $5 million should the city pursue that path um ultimately around the cultural center it was unclear to us who would pay for those operations where the revenues would come from so as sort of a base component of the proposal sort of Uncertain on on the revenues and costs of how that Center gets run who the tenant is for the museum Etc and and you know within their foundational Proposal
with the community center again zero upfront payment as compared to their base proposal otherwise the risks are relatively the same so just to quickly summarize what we've talked about today so this was again this this is the summary comparison that you've seen publicly and this is as it's represented now based on the adjustments that we've made just a rehash on what the program is I won't go through the details but again comparing the net present value between respondents the scores again and I think you know as we sort of talk through all the different components we can absolutely dive deeper as to why the evaluation committee sort of affirmed these scores as they did comparing financial terms again gross cash versus Net Present Value and all the different components and how they're represented on a cash basis
oh sorry that was the public version so this is the up-to-date version and then tax revenue projections over 20 years this is the has been the public version the only change we made here is that we updated the property tax rate so the calculations are a little bit different and then uh so this is the last slide we have I just want to add one other component of our sort of analysis and review We conducted a couple of reference checks with um other City I and public organizations the people's Corporation has worked with and as part of the recommendation we wanted to make sure that we had perspectives from other organizations much like the city of Durham who have wanted to see their real estate aspirations come to bear and um we spoke with the with meinberg carne me mecklinburg county in North Carolina he also spoke with the Massachusetts bay transit authority in in Boston and generally speaking the people's Corporation received glowing commentary uh they've been receptive they've been reliable they've been accessible uh one of the things that's been constantly sort of spoken to is how
uh when specifically donu um when he needs to be on site for a meeting he's there he jumps on a plane he gets there as quickly as he needs to um they are regularly engaging the community and I think especially in the Massachusetts Bay example they have executed or sorry they're planning on executing um very technically difficult projects building over highways building over Transit stations building over technically very difficult um projects from a real estate perspective and they've planned accordingly and the the organizations have been thrilled with how they've planned for that now um in terms of some of the more constructive feedback we've received there's been some question about you know how quickly they've moved the only and I want to point out that that constructive feedback was immediately qualified by covid slowed things down County governments Transit agencies bureaucracy has slowed them down and in addition to that because they're so intentional about conducting Community engagement and getting people on board
and building Buy in within the community they would defer to doing that before rushing something forward without community buyin and so while they offer that feedback they also were quick to acknowledge that ultimately pees has been an excellent partner for them uh they've been malleable they've approached understanding they've understood the market conditions they've proposed solutions that work for the organizations and their goals and have been eval partner and so uh happy to answer any more questions about that and really any other components of the presentation and with that I think unless there's anything else we can go to questions thank you so much colleagues about it citizen comments do they come later or or is that are there goingon to be citizen comments or is that is that only at the meeting on citizen comments yeah actually I'll go with the residents first sorry about that problem all right first up I have Rick
Larson and right after Rick would be um Mick Rainer Mr Mayor uh Mr Mayor proem U mam manager members of council thanks for the opportunity to um to talk about uh this issue with you um I'm Rick Larsson I'm the co-chair of the Durham can affordable housing action team and I speak on behalf of a Consortium of six organizations uh Durham K the Coalition for affordable housing and Transit Durham uh committee on the Affairs of black people People's Alliance Duke Memorial United Methodist Church and the Durham NAACP um we're sorry that Walter Jackson and Stella Adams and Dr Burch um from the Durham committee and NAACP couldn't be with us here today due to health and travel and weather issues uh but they've been active members of our Consortium but we do have representatives from a number of the um members of our Consortium here and we have a few requests uh to make a you at this point
in the process um affordable housing is one and um so I'll get us started on that um we've been advocating with you and with City staff uh for Community needs at 505 for for men months um and that's because 505 as you all know is a rare opportunity we've got a public entity the city of Durham where you can dictate how to address an urgent public need which is the lack of affordable Workforce housing in Durham on a precious publicly owned piece of land so Public Public public and it makes sense that Council made affordable housing its number one priority um you now have proposals from two developers acreage and plls that meet the threshold of a affordable housing earning them a highly advantageous grade basically an a right on the report card that the city staff is using in fact we think um they deserve a grade of pass rather than a grade of a after all they' really only met the minimum of affordable housing
units that um are in the report card and we think Durham deserves better our six Community organizations ask that you as council members direct staff in the negotiation process with the developer to earn an a a true a on this report card by building substantially more affordable housing and market rate units in mixed income buildings um as you well know this isn't just a classroom exercise every additional unit of affordable housing means that one more working family in Durham can live affordably and buy groceries Services um rather than in Burlington or Roxboro which is where many Working Families have to locate now for housing costs this is well worth it for all of us we think um even if it means a fewer square feet of lab space which is um part of people's proposal and with my can hat on uh Duram can I want to say we appreciate the commitment that many of you um as candidates made
in October to Durham can to choose the developer who will build the most affordable units at 505 this is your moment obviously to make good on that commitment and people's proposes 92 units eage is proposing 101 so uh from our perspective if you choose to negotiate with pebles making good on your commitment to can um will mean increasing that number above 101 units in our community organizations hope that you'll negotiate a sign significantly higher number thank you so much thank you next up have Mick rer thank you thank you all for your time I'm one of the pastors my name is Mick rer I'm one of the pastors at Duke Memorial uh across the street from the 505 project and a member of the Durham can clergy caucus uh in my role as a pastor I meet with folks literally every
week in need of rent assistance last year we as a church helped 35 families with rent through just July of this year we have had over 100 people apply for rent assistance to our church we've been able to help 50 of them many of the people we help you might not expect a recent college graduate who lives with multiple roommates a nurse in the West End struggling to cover a security posit plus a month's rent I meet my share of folks in their lowest moments but I also meet many at the start of their Journey folks like myself who fall in love with Durham find a job in downtown but cannot afford to live there last October I sat with folks from my church and many other congregations of durm can as you pledged many of you pledged to support a developer who builts who helps build the most affordable housing at the 505 site we're counting on you to fulfill those
commitments you made last fall the proposals the city has received We Believe doe the minimum to address the need for housing affordable housing for during working folk it seems clear to me that we can do better and we should do better thank you thank you next I have Jane Williams and after Jane mayor Gully thank you council members for your time I'm Jane Williams and I repes presentent the Coalition of affordable housing and transit in Durham it is rare when six of Durham's most socially economically and racially diverse groups come together to support an issue and I'd like to reiterate who those organizations are can the Durham
committee for the Affairs of black people People's Alliance the Coalition for affordable housing and Transit the Durham NAACP and Duke Memorial Methodist Church we are united in our Su our support of a substantial number of affordable housing departments at 505 West Chapel Hill from my personal experience I know that the need is great I volunteer at the walk-in Ministry of First Presbyterian Church where we twice weekly speak to those who are suffering from a lack of affordable hous the 505 property is the city's last opportunity to directly address the housing's shortage we are also United in our belief that the land should remain in City hands to ensure that the land is used for affordable housing we strongly support the city retaining ownership of
the property no matter who becomes the developer if the property is sold the city of Durham will have no say in its use we would encourage a 50 to 99e lease to ensure that affordable housing remains a reality for Durham's Workforce a ground lease is a viable way for the city to earn steady revenue and is consistent with preserving affordable housing units in perpetuity we ask Council to direct the city manager to negotiate with the developer to lease not own the property thank you thank you thank you members of council good afternoon Madam manager it's good to be with you thank you for this opportunity to uh add a few comments although it's hard for me to add much to what's
already been said I do I told Walter Jackson that I would say that he really would love to been here and travel kept him away um we're back at a sort of a key decision Point aren't we with this property that uh you all and your predecessor councils have wrestled with for years five six years at least we've been working on this uh but a key point and I think that uh you've heard our message our groups have talked about this since the proposals came in and our assessment was that despite an unfortunately flawed RFP process uh we had three proposals three developers come forward with their proposals total of five proposals um and the question is is there a proposal we can go with and I think all of our judgment was we can't tell yet uh there was proposals from at least two of the developers we like had promise um and as the city staff has
focused on people's our comments and work will F and our comments today focus on them as well and our thought was peoples has done some good things interesting things in The Proposal but we wanted to see significantly more housing units and significantly more affordable housing units as a part of their proposal and we wanted to see the land least not purchased from the city um I have good news in that regard uh what you heard about Don Hues doing a good job working with Community folks has been true in our experience he's reached out to us we've had a couple meetings he and I've talked several times in addition to that and when I raised these issues with him said you know we want to see the city retain the land and just lease it he said we work with developments everywhere doing it one way or the other we can do either one when I said uh we want to see significantly more affordable housing units and significantly more residential housing units period uh not just one or two more or whatever he said uh we can do that he
said if the council directs us to do that we will do that our proposals initially were in response to the RFP that came forward but if that's what council would like to see as an improvement on where we are now we can do that uh so I think that is good and hopeful news uh for what may happen as we go forward last two things just to raise the council less affordable housing more just for the council because I I've enjoyed the opportunity to sit where you sit um about work one of them uh of the concerns comes from people's performance in other communities and we're appreciative that despite initial report from staff that wasn't discussed that I understand has been raised with the consultant you heard the consultant respond to a couple of communities Boston and Charlotte uh We've also heard concerns raised about in the District of Columbia a public private partnership with the district um
we we're not going to pretend that we know what's going on there or that we know how to assess that but I'll tell you what council's got to do that that's a part of your all's due diligence when you sit down with the partners to make sure you know what's going on and there may be well good answers for all that uh but you all need to find it I can add one more thing you put me in a tough spot because I'm a mayor cutting a mayor off yeah the the the huge loan money is concerns as well and you all have to make sure taxpayer dollars are safe thank you thank you all right uh and I have one person online uh Jane Williams unless there's another one you sign up online in in person okay so I have Julianne Patterson can you hear me yes I can can you hear me oh loud and clear okay great yeah so Julian Patterson um and I'm the executive director of preservation Durham I really wanted to join you all in person today but the weather related School closure
have me home with my son so I appreciate the opportunity to virtually Express preservation Durham's enthusiastic support to move forward with the people's Corporation um specifically to realize their base proposal plan that includes the Adaptive adaptive reuse of the historic home security Life Insurance Milton small building into a hotel um we've had great conversations with the people's team so far and feel that they address the stated goals in the RFP and that they really understand the cultural and financial value of retaining and reusing the existing building um we believe our overall site plan enhances the existing building and is designed to engage the community Through mixed use activation of the entire site and I can also attest to the earlier remarks that they've already invested in upfront Community engagement to design a signature placemaking plan um but we also know as your conversations and negotiations continue to develop um the plan May evolve um and so I just want to continue to emphasize the importance of retaining and preserving the existing building um I think we all saw through
8 million subsidy requested from the city to adapt the building into a hotel um and unlike litech and similar programs these credits aren't competitive the building just needs to be listed on the national register of historic places and preservation Durham started this process back in 2017 um and the building is eligible um so the renovation plans would just need to be reviewed and certified by the state historic preservation office and Durham has a successful track record of using these historic tax credits for the Adaptive reuse of buildings into a hotel so the
21c and the unscripted downtown are two examples um I won't disagree with other comments that encourage you to look at ways to add more affordable housing to the site but I think the people's Corporation can get you there while also keeping the historic building um preservation Durham listed this building on our places in Peril list back in 2014 so for the last decade we've been watching and advocating for its preservation along with the community and I know many of you um and City staff have been along the way too so I want to say thank you to Stacy posted in tarar Nichols who have been more than patient with my barrage of questions and requests for updates and I just want to close my comments by saying preservation Durham we're excited and optimistic to see uh people's Bas proposal come to fruition and finally see some development on the site so thank you for the time thank you so much thank you those are all of the speakers I have signed up at this time I'll bring it back before the council for any questions
comments and Madam uh attorney before we get started is this is this an appropriate time to I guess we can sort of State concerns or ask questions or whatever is it an appropriate time for any negotiation I mean I think you're going to want to have the staff negotiate right but you can certainly Express preferences that the council has to make modifications in what's been presented to you today sounds good this is not I I hope we're not in a mediation let's not do that okay good good good no you're good trying to stay away from anything that maybe quit proquo and all that stuff all right council member R thanks Mr Mayor um and are these questions for Mark or for Mr peoples I don't know who would like so let me just I'll just start by saying I love the vision of peoples um and as Miss Patterson just said I love the I love the renovation of the build small building I think that's a I think it's a classic piece of modernist architecture that we do well to save and
durm so I love that piece of it I love the connection to the community the place baking pieces but I do have I do have a number of concerns one is as folks have mentioned here like I'm sorry I'm sorry Council M let's let me stop you right there let's take a five minute because I really want to full Council here and okay I know this folks are getting up going to the restroom so let's just take a five minute break so I can have everybody here all right everyone it's 304 I'll see you back at 305 I'll see you back at 310 s to cut you off I just want everybody sorry
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all right welcome back all right we're going to go ahead and get started get started back the last person standing up still talking has to buy lunch for everyone in the rooms I see the people's group working for this this um case sitting down slow all right let's do it let's do it c r back thank you yeah so again love the vision and not only the vision the saving the building also the Mi use concept really good right do have some concerns I share with some of the com or concerns some of the residence made about limited affordable
housing I'd love to see more housing more affordable on this site number one and I think by by setting the way we said the RFP I think they delivered the RFP but I I agree some of the folks who said like that's kind of passing great it's not really not hitting out of the park for me second thing is like I really am convinced we need to keep the land and not sell the land um so I'll just put that out there I do have some questions for hrna so I know we emailed about this idea of like Risk right clearly people's is a big bigger Vision right bigger project but also brings much more risk into the equation for the city so I'm wondering in addition I mean you did a good job of listing some of the sort of pros and cons I think in the maners memo there was some identification of sort of different risk factors including the you mentioned the lab space cost is that is that accurate the capital event right the sort of the the loan payments I'm just wondering if you did any kind of like modeling or like did you discount The Net Present Value based on you know some kind of risk calculation because I think in some ways like just listing is great but giving us a better sense as we make decisions like how do we think about that risk factoring into our decisions right so internally in terms of our own
7 million in the base proposal and the six million in the alternative proposal that was tied to the net proceeds of the sale all determined by the success of the site so we use a different discount rate that's in line with you know some commercial real estate standards for capitalization uh which is really just one of a key metric that gets used in selling a site so we wanted to align that the discount rate with that sort of market Standard to evaluate how that impacts now ultimately it's a small number in the grand scheme of the the the value of the property and the other numbers that
we're evaluating but so that was one way in which we we wanted to approach risk um I mean there are and so there's the sort of the financial components and you mentioned a lot of the ible components and sorry intangible components around um you know we're talking about a loan that is a subordinate loan so the city doesn't have the recourse and that's and we're also talking about a large loan right the city has to develop the capital or set aside those loan payments are also at some level contingent on the success of the project right so that is a contingency yeah yeah well it's it's contingent in the sense that you know but that yes they need Capital cash flow to pay the payments back but that would be true for all the developers right and there's a different different components here there's the market rate residential which is part of the mixed use building which in my understanding is the first phase of their development and of all the you know questions around overall feasibility I think the largest question is around the office and lab space based on everything postco work from home trends Etc which is the third phase of
their development as far as I understand it so there's a little bit more time for the city to think about what that plot becomes or what that part of the site becomes and it's worth saying that in the conversations that I had with the Massachusetts bay transit authority they talked about the constant sort of push and pull that they are working in their relationship with BBL how they're thinking about Shifting the program Boston has a different kind of lab Market there's been a lot of development in Boston over the last 10 to 15 years oversaturation and so they're you know slowly condensing the program they're increas the lab program they're increasing the residential program in response to that which I think creates the kind of relationship that ultimately the city would want to have with a developer having that flexibility to respond to market trends and develop something that can be successful and so while I think in any development program all the development programs we looked at there's risk you it's a TENS of hundreds of millions of dollars of investment but is there a partner who's
willing to shape the vision in a way that meets the city's goals but also um but also delivers on um a program that works and is sound from a fundamental standpoint at the on the market level and so I think that again thinking about how we discounted financially but also some of the thinking we did on the intangible side of how you weigh those risks because I think there are different trade-offs here that that need to be accounted for for sure but but it but if the if the lab space were the sort of third phases project I mean that's part of the repayment is also the the revenue from that so that's so again that loan would be contingent on that succeeding like I mean again the vision here is much bigger than acreage ACA alone is like 10% of the size right so like we're just got a level of risk and a size that's much more that's much more of a you know something we've got to wrestle with sure and you know I'm happy to defer to someone from PES if they want to talk about some of their intended repayment um but I think it's something that Council has to consider the scale of the loan is something that you know this is capital that the city
will have to assemble and distribute and that presents a certain risk that the city has to take on and what expect the there are different terms that can be put in place to ensure repayment or at least protect the city and insulate them from risk uh but in terms of how the development comes together and you know sort of why they propose the program they proposed I'll let Donnie Hugh speak to that sure and uh thanks so much my name is Don Hugh pebles II I'm the Executive Vice President of the Pees Corporation and first of all uh very much appreciate the time and the opportunity to speak uh council member rist uh your point is well taken and certainly there's risk associated with the commercial piece uh there's been an oversaturation of commercial office base in the market as a whole uh we think that the Research Triangle and Raleigh Durham in particular uh is well suited and uh will continue uh to have increased demand for lab office in fact uh my colleague Chris minichello can come up in a moment and speak with specificity uh with respect
to the tenants that we've spoken with uh all of whom are looking to increase their space uh in the Research Triangle area uh more to your point uh with respect to the um loan uh a portion of the loan certainly uh would be repaid by the commercial component uh and a portion of the loan would be drawn uh to some degree by the commercial component to the extent that we don't believe that the commercial component is viable uh we're not able to achieve pre-leasing the council believes that there's been an oversaturation of commercial space in Marketplace and would prefer residential execution uh then simply that portion of the liability is is not drawn and the size of the loan is reduced and commensurately the risk is reduced uh so the way that that I'd encourage uh the body to consider our proposal is that we did our best to manage competing objectives we heard in the RFP that we needed 93 units of affordable housing in
order to be highly advantageous so we achieved that we heard in the RFP there needed to be a quarter million square feet of commercial space in order to be highly advantageous we responded immediately to those incentives uh to the extent that those aren't the incentives that are carried by the body today or to the extent uh that the body doesn't believe that the risk associated with the repayment of the liability corresponds with those incentives then you will not find and I can assure you a more malleable partner to navigate those challenges these transactions are complicated we understand that political objectives change over time we're not wedded to any particular execution the only thing that we are wedded to is a partnership with the city of their appreciate that problem um I've got one other question I don't know if yeah let me have one other question so you know one of the big things objectives that was not included in the RFP but I think is really critical for Durham I mean look outside this is like this is you know here we got these are
climate events we're having right so we've got climate goals with a city it seems to me that your proposal has nothing to say about our climate goals um and I think there's an opportunity here both to build in green elements in this kind of development right but also access to large federal dollars that are funding things like solar and others so wonder if you've considered any kind of like much deeper kind of green component things like a you know what know like geothermal or something that could be paid for by you know Green Bank funds or direct pay credit so there's a lot of opportunity as well as um funding that can make that happen so would love your thoughts on that absolutely and mayor Williams uh I'm going to apologize I know you mentioned earlier you wanted this meeting to last an hour but that's a big question and it deserves a big answer uh what I'll do is uh I'll speak a little bit about our experience delivering green buildings then I'll pass it over to my part or to my colleague Chris minichello and our partners at HKS um wholeheartedly agree uh in fact in order to be competitive uh
we'll need to deliver a number of green outcomes uh we have extensive familiarity with 45 L credits which are a cons which are a consequence of arpa most recently passed through the federal government we have experience with solar renewable energy credits uh we've built solar panels on a number of our affordable housing buildings and have leveraged a number of separate rebates in order to amortise down the cost of more environmentally friendly Building Systems uh particularly separate HVAC systems that we've used in a recently delivered affordable housing project 17 Mississippi Avenue southeast in Washington DC um with respect to this project in particular uh environmental sustainability is is not only a goal uh it's an expectation and a point of Pride for our organization and I'll pass it over to our folks at HKS and Chris who can talk with a great degree of granularity as to what we hope to propose and accomplish here D
one of our so uh we can't we won't be able to hear you and we have a potentially thousands of folks watching online so I was have to speaking to the mic hi folks it's a real privilege to be here to be able to talk about this project but also uh engage with you in a conversation about sustainability we are surface 678 we're a landscape Architecture Firm basically right down the street two 215 more Street we've been here for over uh just about 30 years we have projects here that you can go and touch and walk and experience and one of the things that really struck me was the opportunity put the green roof system that they presented and we worked with clearscapes and Raleigh Union Station is our project which has two Green Roof Systems and so what's important about this site that really is um attractive and encouraging you're on top of the hill right so when you think about your neighbors down stream and where you know you talked about what's happening out there today that water is going somewhere right right it's going Downstream and so with this project by
implementing Green Roof Systems implementing permeable pavers we're able to hold that water release it slowly over time so it doesn't allow for pertubations or exaggerated stream impacts or storm water impacts the other thing that that green roof system does it provides you an opportunity to think about these hot summer days it is a way to cool an urban contact with a sizable scale that allows you to engage not only that particular block but its adjacencies and then the third thing is the opportunity to use permeable papers and and not only capturing and storing that water but thinking about the reflective quality of those papers so they don't like hold the heat we also have an opportunity to really think about the trees and the Greenscape in this area providing a cooling opportunity so from a Landscape Architects perspective this is the perfect project to Showcase where Durham stands in terms of sustainability from a site perspective and there's many other ways that we can talk about
that um Adam fa from S corporation who is our general contractor for the team is going to speak briefly on the geothermal at Wells good afternoon thank you for the opportunity uh so personally my background uh did two very large geothermal fields in DC uh in very Urban sites as well so happy to support the team as we look at the additional sustainability measures uh go through constructability for a long-term viability of a geothermal system on the site should we go that direction I just want to reinforce our capabilities and experience uh with those systems before turning it over back to the team thank you so I just have one more question that defer my colleague so just as a in a very technical Financial way so so were the city to issue limited obligation bonds to to provide the funding for the loan and maybe a question for Kim as well like how do we secure this what is that secured with and is there yeah and
are there and yeah yeah and are there and does statutes do they limit what we can then if we're if we if we raise funds that way are the limits on how we can spend that money yes so Tim Flor finance department and so yes we've had many discussions with our bond Council and financial advisers and so you would have to structure the debt and such a way that it would be um consistent with uh requirements for the debt which is we would have to parse out those pieces of the project which have a public purpose and it would be the public purpose that we would be able to use for the funding aspect so um we would then have to work with the developer the contractors to figure out what how much and what of the different projects so like uh the affordable housing component maybe parking the infrastructure part so we would have to try to get to that number um and so that would be something we would have to do as we work as we work through the process I mean can we and with with what what you see that can we get there is there enough is there enough of
a in the convers in the conversations I've been having there there are different ways of getting there if we can't get to the loan number amount we there are other avenues that we could use to um Shuffle some of our other financing um components but but we feel comfortable that we could get to what where we need to get to with this proposal okay thanks that's all my questions for now I have more but yeah Others May president thank you Mr Mayor and thank you uh colleagues thank you staff for um this really it's been a long time coming um I do want to do a level set of some of the conversation about some of the history around this conversation and some of the players um as well I um I don't know first of all let me just full disclose I don't know where I'm going um on this but I I will say that this count to my colleagues if if we want to increase the amount of
affordable housing that is certainly within our purview but I I do want to address some of the characterizations um uh in the conversation firstly the RFP is not flawed the RFP is reflective of the conversations we've had in this community that go back to Mayor shu uh council member Altin mayor O'Neal council member ree council member Johnson I want to honor the work Council M mayor O'Neil Council mman I want to honor the work that was done and the listing that was done over the years and just by way of reminder we are here because the Carl Rist proposal fell through this this this property would have already been developed and to be honest the proposals that are in front of us now are better than what Carl Rist would have given us um so so just by default we're in a better position the number of affordable units that were part of the original proposal came from
the community I think it was at least 80 or something that that number was proposed to us we didn't we didn't come up with that number the number was given to us which we embrac so I think it's important to remember that um the the RFP is reflective of a bunch of players and a bunch of community members and bunch of vested folk the business people wanted something preserve we heard from you uh historic durm they wanted the building um affordable housing which my my background is no secret in the city affordable housing was incredibly important to us culture we wanted culture so there's a lot of things that we wanted in this project and everybody got a yes depending upon the lens you look at this these proposals if you didn't get more of what you want then you might see it as flawed but everybody got a yes in this proposal the question is degrees of yes and and is your yes big enough for you uh and that's really where we are um everybody's going to be happy nobody's
probably gonna be ecstatic uh uh because we're trying to fit a lot of things into this Pro property and part of decision- making leadership is you got to make the decision at some point we are at decision point I do also want to speak um to my friends um in the Coalition that's represented here today um I I think five or six I'm I'm a member of the overwhelming majority of those organizations in the Coalition um the I want I want us to be careful about the represent representations we make about where the Coalition stand I'm a member of the Duram committee on the Affairs of black people um um as is Mayor Williams and and and council member Freeman we haven't had any meetings as a committee Beyond to to authorize a representation about specific negotiation points for example how many units is enough or this isn't we haven't had those and I know
how this organization works so saying that we support affordable housing is one thing but to make representations that we've somehow seated negotiation Authority for a particular proposal or a particular number has not heard and and and I think it's important for the public to understand that I'm a life member of the NAACP I'm member of the NAACP as well those conversations have not occurred now the general embracing of yes we support affordable housing certainly is the point but beyond supporting affordable housing to say that these voices are part of have been have have seeded authority to talk specific numbers or tweaking a particular U proposal discounting that part or going on that part I want to be very careful about the representations we because we have not I'm members of these organizations we have not had those conversations so and I want the public to understand as well that that the internal mechanisms that would yield that type of rendering or authority has not occurred at least in the
organizations that I can speak for um durm Can Has Its Own culture which I'm part of and and proud of and love so so when the Coalition speaks I just want to be very careful that the representations we make we ain't had a big meeting where we all kind of came together and said do this do this and in case that say this that has not occurred and I want to be very clear about that representation um finally again with deference to the work that's been done by past council members I want to honor that work I want to honor the input of a number of stakeholders uh in this community that have have have come out um and made their voices heard um to bring us to this point um so I'm I'm as I'm impressed with the Pees uh um recommendation um I know the historic preservation people are are impressed with keeping the building I know the business people in and Class A Space things have changed since covid so lab space so we we've actually been blessed that maybe that first deal did fall
through because as things happen so you know this this conversation is evolved we have snapshots but I am I am I'm impressed with the people's um recommendation but if we want this to be a housing complex we can do that if we want this to be straight business we can do that we we have the power to do that but I what I want to say to my colleagues you know very directly is that if we're going to achieve everything that we said we wanted to do on this property then we're gonna have to make a decision and some folk are going to be not happy uh with what we do unless we decide we want to go one way or another that the Cru that is The Crucible of leadership and that is the point we're at now um so I I want to thank the staff again for doing what we asked for issuing an RFP that keeps Fidelity and and fully reflects the the breath of the conversation that we've had in this community um many of the stakeholders
are represented in this room but there were a whole bunch of other stakeholders who aren't here who had voice uh in this conversation that we try to capture those voices and craft something that that gives a yes at least a partial yes to everybody and I think the staff has done an amazing job in doing that and I look forward to to further deliberations with my colleagues um and making a final decision on this most important piece of real estate for our city thank you Mr Mayor thank you all right thank you so much for our comments so far I just want to let everyone know that my computer decided to lock me out so um it is downstairs where all my notes are so we're going to go blind and I'm going to follow up on my colleague who also didn't know where he was going and say I also don't know where I'm going I didn't play that by the way I promise I know I really like this meeting has been um I just want to note that I have not been the one that's elongated this meeting so um anyway here we
are yes I also wanted to Echo I I know coming into this that a lot of work has gone into this project um so I want to just shout out to all the council members that came before that have have um worked really hard and put a lot of time in all the community members that have put a lot of time in and also all three of the developers who put forward projects because um yall did a lot of work I really can see um how each group sort of tried to meet different parts of that RFP that was put out um and I think it's really impressive that uh we have folks willing to put those forward and also I think it's really speaks highly to Durham that folks are excited to come here and work with us and willing to to sort of hang in on this quite a long process and and put forth really exceptional ideas um I um also am a member of several of these organizations um and I I do know that they did not get together I also know that these organizations do have um departments that sort of focus on housing and other
spaces and so um I know that they don't necessarily speak in a democratic process for everyone in the city uh but I do think as as was noted by a couple of the speakers that this is a really diverse group of people that's getting together um and so I do want to pay special attention to what they have cited because I also think that since this original RFP went out and especially since the one before it went out um a lot has changed right and and the mayor protm spoke to this but uh we have experienced a global pandemic um affordability has drastically changed in the city right just in in the last four years um and and youall know my background too which is working with housing insecure people and um and so I have seen it firsthand uh and what that has looked like and the needs of the community have also changed and so um for me the affordability piece does feel like the most important um and I similar
to to I think what a lot of my colleagues have have been stated am impressed with the with the people's presentation as it's been for forward so far um I just want to talk about a couple things that I feel um just I'm just going to note some things as they come to me because I don't have my notes in front of me so the first thing I want to talk about is the building and I know that um folks in the community have a lot of strong feelings back and forth on this building um I know that we've heard from preservation Durham on um the importance of preserving that building um and I do think it's really important that when we have structures that we try and reuse them in terms of a sustainability uh point and also potentially an economic Point um however what I'm going to say is that even before sitting on this Council and hearing this from community members which I have heard this from community members since that time but even before then there has been trepidation about what this space would be used for in the community and so again youall know my background I'm not members of I'm not a member of this specific Community um but a lot of folks
who are people of color who I interact with daily um have really specific and very negative ties to that building as it sits there um and so like I said it was like before I even was remotely involved in what was going to happen to this um I would hear um Elder black folks in the community talk about this building and how they were concerned about what its use would be and its Legacy would be because they have Painful memories of it and so I just want to like give voice to that again this is not my community I don't feel like I can speak to that in terms of a personal attachment either way um but those voices are really important to me and so I just want to give space for that um that there is potentially a lot of pain there as well um for me I don't feel strongly about the preservation of the building again I think if it if it added a lot in terms of a financial or an or an environmental sustainability gain um that I'm that might shift my opinion but at this moment I don't feel really strongly about that um and so I
just wanted to to give that voice um and otherwise uh I really just want to say thank you especially that people's came I I can tell that y'all are committed to the city um I think that this is a cool first draft and like y'all have said like you want to make it better right and I think that that's what this Council wants too we are all looking at a first draft of a project and we have space now to to to add to it to think about Community needs and like ever changing um needs of our of the city um and what that might look like in this project it's a really really really special opportunity it's the last really large parcel downtown um and so I'm excited to see where we can get with this I don't think it's where I want to see it yet um affordability I think for me is going to be number one seeing more affordable units um potentially even at the cost of some of the commercial I do want to see that the commercial is
maintained though I do think that that's super important um we need commercial spaces in downtown Durham I'd especially like to see it potentially be open for local small businesses um some affordable commercial and smaller uh storefronts as well I think would be a really nice mix so that's something that I'd like to see um but as my colleagues have stated and and several members of the community I think the city retaining the rights and the land is going to be uh for me probably the biggest thing those are my thoughts right now and if I get my notes back I'm also going to um deliver some thoughts from Council m Baker who was unfortunately not able to make this meeting but I want to do him Justice and and read my notes so all right back to me if it if it changes ahead council member thank you um I agree with most everything that's been said you know I think um council members Freeman myself and mayor proem I think this is our our third Rodeo um so uh as always thank you to the staff um because we know it's it's been a lot for
y'all in general very pleased with with the direction that staff is taking us I think that out of the proposals received pees quite frankly is the most interesting um and so I I I'm not sure I don't 100% agree with the Motions that are in front of us um but I do agree with the general direction of yes to to the the people's people's concept um most generally um I will just name I quite frankly love the uh saving of the building as many know uh and the the conversion to a hotel because it does hit uh the commercial piece uh really really importantly um those of us who are sitting in spaces with discovered Durham and DDI we we know that we are critically underresourced in downtown hotels and it does actually prevent us from doing some of the bigger festivals and some of the other things that you're seeing Raleigh and things and we do actually have to think about that as a community as much as we want to not think about that we have to compete right and and maybe that that doesn't sound good or feel good and and to think about that but people have lots of
choices when they move to the triangle they that that's one of its assets is that you can find your flavor within 30 minutes of different communities and so we want folks to visit us uh and so a hotel in that space kind of um you know really helps us keep the building which we've that that has been a Contin or that has been a group that has been very loud and clear from day one uh and I will say that I was not one of the folks who was in favor of uh preserving that building uh from the get and then I heard very loud and clear um why it was important um and also also I think it the the building wasn't a police station originally it was an insurance building um by a a modernist architect who whose most of his stuff has actually been destroyed uh it's one of the last intact uh buildings that he still has in the area and um I feel like family at some point even reached out to council to talk about the legacy of the architect itself
um himself um so that part I really love I hear folks around the affordability and if we can get more units great I was not one of the council members who wanted 250,000 square feet of re of uh of commercial I think yall remember that um so if there has to be more afford if if there's a way to trade out um uh the the commercial for affordable units I'm open to that and then I will say that the retention of land um I don't know how we this kind of push and pull that the people's team has is indicated you know things change on the ground we are in an extremely volatile moment let's just hope maybe after November um some interest rates go down um I think that there's going to be a lot of things that are happening uh economically um in the next four to five months that are going to change some things um so I I think the retaining of the land and I'll say this and I'll say that this isn't you know 2018 2019 uh you know was just such a different economic moment uh than it than it's been and retaining five and a
half acres of downtown land in City ownership is just really um it just gives us leveraging and Power in a way that I don't know we don't get it back we're not GNA be able to afford to ever get it back so those are those are the only things that I I have some kind of like how do we how do we negotiate with those things in mind other than that I am actually really delighted uh with the proposal by pebles I think it really um speaks to the kind of team we're going to get here thank you C I appreciate my colleagues comments I will say I was holding off trying to figure out the there was a woman she's a black woman she was speaking on behalf of retaining the Milton small building she was one of the Architects yes and I I just want to say that that piece of this can get lost and just how much when we talk about history of this this city um is is so diverse and tied and ways in which we're so
Progressive 50 60 years ago and we can kind of just mle over it and dismiss it um today with the issues of of affordable housing and so I just want to be careful with that I also will just say that um there were a number of environmental issues that she mentioned that would be Unearthed and removing that structure that I don't want to see happen and so I will say that I'm very adamant that the building be maintained and in place and that we figure out whether it's a hotel or not I'm not I'm I'm partial to that at all I don't mind either way but I do know that um hearing the dialogue in this iteration there's so many red flags that were raised uh first I want to thank um mayor protim Middleton and and identifying the first which you want to be careful when we're speaking on behalf of black people who aren't in the room um I'm very clear that I've had lots of conversations with folks in the community but I don't try to speak on behalf of them um I try to
speak on behalf of myself and what I understand from what they've said I um I know that I've sat in the room I also want to say that it's not just limited to the durm committee and nor and the NAACP but I want to say the People's Alliance also has a very Democratic process and I want to make sure that we're honoring that as well I am excited by all the various opportunities what I mean when you talk about geothermal and um environmentally sustainable roofs all those things are very exciting but I'm really like cautioned because this is the third iteration that I want to make sure that we don't we don't stop what is the enemy of good is not perfect something to that effect that people say all the time I don't want to keep doing this I don't want to keep reliving this and it is it is there's been so many hours poured into this there's so much money poured into this and I know on the veler side this is one case where I'm like or one situation where I'm like I feel so bad for the developers who have been involved in
this I am just I am just grateful rare I'm letting you know I am just grateful that they're still willing to to consistently um show up and and make sure that we understand that they're willing to be good partners and do what what the city needs um to be done on this site I will say that the land retaining or the land retaining option really is appealing I will say that I am not willing to not build in order to have it because this project has I mean this is I've been on this Council seven years this is we're going into year eight I mean goodness gracious like it would be so nice if this would have been done four years ago and it would be nice five years ago and if we don't get it done that affordability is still unattainable for the same people we we're talking about we want to have affordable housing and I will add to that that when we talk about affordability it is not just limited to units it is also Transportation the location of this site and then also the jobs and so having that commercial space
may not be appealing to some but I do want to make sure I resurface that conversation that those folks who live in a building if they can work downstairs it's so much cheaper and it's so much Greener um that doesn't mean that everyone will but the option to have not just office but life science in the area especially downtown um acknowledging how undiverse our business Community or business office space is right now I know the conversation with North with Northgate and a couple of other locations they're all we have to hear that that's the pulse of where we're going and whether it's 250 or or 200 or 275 is not really my you know sticking point it's really just making sure that this project gets done because I'm I mean Willard Street is done that's the benefit of having it done so um you know this is post 300 500 West Main Street um
I'm sorry East Main Street and acknowledging how the city how the county was able to get that housing moving there the opportunity for those folks to be in those units is much sooner because it's done and so I do want to make sure that that that's the sticking point for me is that I want to get it done I want to make sure that there is additional housing if it could be more units I'm okay with that I'm okay with where we are so I'll leave it at that I think I've covered just about all of my things I really appreciate the the comments of my colleagues um beforehand because that does always always help in in just navigating where you sit where you sit because I think we're we're we're essentially saying the same things in different ways with different priorities but we do know that the housing has to be a main focus and if we can keep the land that is a good it's good it's all right yeah um council member Freeman it was um was Phil freon's team that rap redid the redaptive use of the police station and she was I think one of the
first uh black women principal Architects if not in North Carolina maybe the southeast so I just want to name that history sh so also Patricia Harris was the first um African-American licensed architect in the state of North female African-American that was the one that came actually Pres yeah that's clear like preservation of those of that land or preservation of that building means preserving a little bit a little piece of history that ties them to that insurance company that became a police department that can be become something different um that will be beneficial to the city of Darren thank you now go ahead thank you you turn that mic off colleagues colleagues thank you so much for for really robust conversation I I I do want to um with respect to the the sale of the building just kind of drop a bit of a historical a tidbit so one of the things we one of the options was we just sell the land for a gazillion dollars take the money
and do affordable housing wherever else The Leverage the second choice if you will if you if you will was well do what you know they used to do to folk via restrictive covenants we sell it with terms because one of the things we wanted to do was also uh get a significant financial windfall that was one of our goals as well and the way to do that was we could either and and I remember Jillian Johnson spoke spoke very um eloquently about the pitfalls of self-developing retaining the land and developing in oursel the city becoming a developer and we didn't want any parts of that um so selling the land would get a significant a significant a financial windfall however selling it as you can do under terms you know we'll only sell it to you if you agree to do such and such and such forever and and in imp perpetuity so I I you know I I come down on the side of wanting to retain ownership as well but historically the
conversation tracked along the lines of how do we achieve the goal of getting a financial windfall but also still make sure our values are are retained on that land so it it wasn't just selling it and letting them walk away it was selling it under restrictions um which got us money up front but also put affordable housing there put the things that we wanted there and we got to participate also in a future sale uh as well as has been reflected so I just wanted to put that uh in context um we weren't just taking the money and running we were we were selling it with under specific circumstances which which benefited us financially and in terms of accomplishing of mission as well thank you Mr Mayor you got your computer back yeah the you thing yeah so I I think that um y'all heard my priorities and then I think that there's also some things that we just want to talk about just since y'all are in the room um if we do end up moving forward with pees um
just to sort of know that these are things that council member Baker I'm going to do his list first and then I have sort of been thinking about that would be awesome to see in addition might not be make or break for us but um would be just things that we'd like to to see at least thought about in a creative manner um so I'm just going to read his list um so the first one is a voluntary restriction of rent increases on the market units uh to maximum of 5% or something tracking a rate of inflation but some sort of um rental increase on those Market rents that would be voluntary obviously we can't require that um under North Carolina state law but obviously developers are always welcome to voluntarily uh track the market and inflation rates and so that's something that he was talking about um we've I think that this conversation has been um has been really prevalent but having all that open space be publicly dedicated um I think that there that would NE potentially track if we maintained the land um but if there
was in fact some sale of the land just ensuring that that uh public space be what it is we heard Public Public public um and and I think that's a concern as well uh he is really uh focused on good site planning uh street level activation above and beyond sidewalk withd right not just following the Udo but potentially going above and beyond uh with the width uh Street trees I know actually y'all talked about that with um having environmental um having a mind towards environmental sustainability and in terms of cooling potential of having trees uh specifically he was looking for trees along the street um as a as a safety buffer and also for the coolant purposes that y'all talked about um diverse retail space would go into this high quality uh first floor design window transparency um and good bike infrastructure potentially even with a bike path running through or if it's around at least it's protected potentially raise that sort of thing um he talked about a affordable commercial space you heard me talk about that a
little bit earlier too we're just keeping mindful that um a lot of our local North local Durham businesses are are getting pushed out of downtown uh due to high rent so it would be really cool to see um a divers iversity in terms of commercial space and if we could get space for local businesses entrepreneurs I think that would be great um and he talked about that it can be revenue revenue neutral he's not really fuss that it be necessarily Revenue maximizing but of course I think we all want it to be self- sustaining and um we don't want it to be a deficit in the in the community uh for me another piece that I was looking at is that youall had um units for sale in addition for rent and I would love to see some affordability TI in for those four sale units as well so that something that um I wanted to add um and then since I'm just going I'm just going to say one more thing which is not really relevant to that list um but I would I would love in in terms of giving direction um I would love to have the
city attorney's office um do an analysis of of some of the financial um underlying things that are going on here U that would be helpful for me to have that background in making that decision this is something really far out of my um knowledge and we heard a great presentation from the consultant but we also have great minds in um in in house and so that would be I think really helpful just to to make sure that we all understood the legalities um and so if if that is something that the city's attorney would office would be willing to do to work with maybe the consultant or the developers um and just give us an analysis of that that would be awesome so those are my requests thank you well colleagues thank you all for your comments I know that you guys are going to keep us in good legal shape I know you're G to make sure we're we're good um General Services you guys are taking the lead on this with the legal person at the tip and um so
good point council member C I think uh for me much of the com much well actually I think remember Freeman said it best we're we're pretty much saying the similar similar things just in different ways um I think for me I this is a case that I and I'll now admit it I was hoping to prolong it I know it's we've been wanting to get it done but I just felt the market was just not ready it wasn't in a good space for us you know and I think that you know with interest race SP uh hopefully will change uh we can get more bang for a buck which will give you all more flexibility to do more so I know folks wanted us to hurry up and finish this project or hurry up and get it started I didn't and and I'll be honest I was actively trying to prolong it because I I and I and I still think that we uh can I I I do want to hurry up and get it done but I think that this is a matter where we uh we take our time and
hurry up um yeah right yeah just when we let's take our time let's hold our horses here let the interest rates drop let's you know reapply the financial model and see where we are and and and then you know we sign a dotted line and uh and see where we're end up because you know the the housing units and you know just everything around it um will make a make a difference I believe uh I think this is a case where we we I do appreciate the partnership in this you know uh to you all of the partners there with pees I I appreciate it because I think this is an experimental process that we can take here in Durham where we can truly put our best foot forward um I'm not going to look at this case as a traditional development case where you know we're tugging and pulling after the Planning Commission you know has seen the case and all of this and all of that and it's like all right so what we we're not looking at the proor we're just trying to get what we can out of it and
we can't force anything but this is an opportunity where it appears that you're upfront investment of time in this project has shown that that you actually give a dang about this uh this this this site when you've worked hard for it you're here and I can appreciate that and I I um so I feel like there there's some honesty here uh and and that we could really work together um I was one of the initial ones uh not initially but when I got on Council who put some conditions around preserving the building only because I was worried about the cost that it would take to restore it um but if we can make it economically work then I'm definitely for it when I'm thinking about um the fact that we are wly underwhelming when it comes to Hotel Beds in downtown uh turning this into a revenue generator um whereas you know folks are try they're traveling to Morrisville and carry and burlingon to stay in hotels for events in durman Raleigh you know uh I think
that this is prime now that we have a hotel proposed and our occupancy tax is now reallocated to generate um uh to to be generating Revenue to go toward building assets and amenities uh specifically I think we're we're collectively moving in the right direction um a question I have was just around the specifics of commercial we we are experiencing uh some some some losses downtown and it hurts me to my core because these are my friends my peers who are closing their restaurants you know um these are the folks I I text with late at night like okay how was yourselves today you know yeah we're down too you know I'm I'm feeling that burn that they have uh in July my own personal restaurant was was sales now 80% so I'm late worried what are we going to do you know um it it's different issues you know parking is not the issue for us it's just foot traffic you know so how do we get people out in
about out and as a practitioner in this I I wouldn't dare say give me uh just affordable commercial space what I would say is I I'm I'm mostly okay with the amount of the square footage for commercial if we can have some specificity around it because we need an anchor everybody goes to the grocery store and when you go to the grocery store you can also see what's next to it you know so we have the amount of space that can handle commercial that's going to actually generate foot traffic then our businesses will sustain my I and and I think council member Freeman you may have been the one that said this but you know uh I talk about affordable living over affordable housing all the time and it does matter and I'll give my personal story as an example I live right there under the flashing bll right at right at Old Bull and uh my job outside of City Hall is my restaurant which is right on campus and
I get to walk to it and I can park my vehicle and I don't have to use it or I get on a scooter which is why people laugh at me all the time because I'm always on a scooter because I get to walk everywhere I go so it allows me to have a bit more financial flexibility now imagine if we can create that experience for more people and therefore we have more you know finances that could be uh that can have some versatility you know in the household and I think about that and to me that's affordable living um but just giving someone a single component that doesn't mesh well with everything else that they have to do it doesn't really help the situation you may feel good doing it but it doesn't really help the overall situation so I think about the holistic approach so my council member Freeman I appreciate you highlighting that um so if it will be 250,000 square feet then I'd like some you know I'd like to know what type of specifity it's going to be there because we need we need an anchor uh businesses that are up and and
operating right now they don't have a problem operating they can make the money but if there nobody to sell the product to then they're not going to sustain they're not going to survive and uh we've heard a lot of issues why a lot of reasons why people are leaving downtown trust me I know for a fact they're all very different but one thing is consistent is where are the people and if we're thinking that we're going to put a big office lab there look at around 321 coffee where that was I mean Google is in that building and there was someone having coffee the other to day and they saw 100 people walk by and two people walked in for coffee you know cuz they're going inside the building which is really insulated and they have everything they need inside food coffee everything so we just want to be really intentional about the types of tenants that we're attracting as well not saying we don't want Google we definitely want them those are really good paying jobs and we get our Revenue through the taxes right um but this is an opportunity for us to partner together to be really intentional I don't want to over restrict you all um I want you to have the flexibility to put your best foot forward but what I'm saying is I want to
be a partner with you in that and and and be realistic I know that you know the more we increase affordable affordable units the more the financial model is going to have to shift because I know that you know the more affordable units you have the harder it is to finance and we have to say all right well we're going to do this increase this here then we have to look at how do we generate and make sure this is pinable that you can actually it's not a word we got to make get work right uh but at the same time we want to stay true to our values too and that's the number one priority on this as well so I I don't know who said this either but about those four sale units having that you know more accessible as well or attainable uh I think that is that is that's a really good opportunity so I think that we can create a model here that can be iconic for other cities and municipalities to look at and and and um and make sure that they uh can see how we did
it yeah and um I think those were mainly all of oh and just looking at what's happening around it you know Le let's let's not ignore the fact that it's while privately own there's about 12 acres of land that's next door to you that's underutilized right now there nothing happening um and we want to make sure that we are talk to those folks to see what will go there uh eventually uh and also the durm rail trail is coming the durm rail trail is coming and we can activate that space collaboratively I foresee this part of downtown being reimagined um and yeah this is this is my interest in this you know without saying hey let's just put a Convention Center there um this this works I I love it well I'm that should go on the freeway cap actually so it's coming um so where so this is on the we'll be on the gva as as well right so because there's a several motions so so how do we yeah so I mad a manager was waiting
on me to finish running my mouth uh so that she can get to that part um but yeah I I think the last main thing for me is what I I said the question that I have but I didn't ask it how do we get more specificity around types of commercial space I understand what the markets are saying about lab space and all of that but how do we activate this press that Buton to turn it on to till it's green and then speak up into it thank you may um so I I appreciate you asking that something that we really focused on in the original proposal specifically the Bas proposal is creating a holistic community that benefits from each of the components right they they they live in harmony right so the ground floor retail I believe it was a request of um council member Baker right where he said he wants Community retail that can serve or that can operate at a neutral capacity right we F we firmly believe in that because Community retail that's great
for the community operates at a neutral capacity but serves for the greater benefit of the community both on our master plan and The Wider community so for us it's reaching out to local stakeholders and community members and businesses to help fill in those spaces to where it Services the apartment uh users the office users and The Wider Community could you kind of Define that a bit for me Community retail of course yeah absolutely so when I mean Community retail I mean the the retail that you'll see servicing um apartment buildings traditionally liner retail that is say convenience or say like dry cleaners yeah dry cleaners food and beverage things that you want to go to and be a part of things will activate the community and pull people in right also convenience retail right with dry cleaners and and and things of that nature an anchor tenant is I think imperative it's something that um I mean for for a good six to eight months uh was nearly our full-time job to try to
find who would be the appropriate fit there um we've had very positive conversations to that end um and are excited to chase down leads to help find out what would be the right solution there certainly open to bringing those discussions to to the city to help you know come to a resolution as to who would be the best fit um but we're excited uh and and I I think largely aligned in that in that sense I'm tossing a lead out there we we are wul underwhelming when it comes to Hotel space you guys answer that we don't have a grocery store downtown it's heard loud and clear we do not have a grocery store down put away for me I don't understand why no one sees it as attractive enough to put one there but I mean you want to activate people and make Durham downtown much happier yeah CU right now we all get in our cars and have to drive to Ninth Street or we get on the bus and have to you know ride over to Ninth Street and come back and yeah that's heard loud and clear Scott
Baltimore on our team from HKS has built out and helped us curate those retail spaces on the ground floor there is conveniently a very large box there for somebody that something that I think could serice the community yeah and and before I finish I want to reiterate what uh Council M RIS was talking about I was at a US Conference of Mayors uh meeting and the Secretary of Energy uh Department of energy was there the administrator and quote uh we have so much money it's hard to get rid of so it's a good problem to have yes incorporate as much as you can I promise you my letter of support will be waiting for you and I will signal my channels to submit their letters of support and that is what I mean by being a partner uh we have um bought a lot of money into the triangle just to infrastructure uh and there's a formula that we have for that and I would out of my office would be right on if if we go with you guys thank you I want to add that the office of
driana Freeman will also be on board with that it is thank you we're very excited all right uh so Madam manager thank you uh Mr Mayor for an opportunity to speak very briefly um we have this item uh on your work session agenda today and we have um a recommendation for a development team to be the preferred development team that development team has presented a base proposal as well as an alternate proposal uh and there is another significant item here for you to authorize a city manager to negotiate a non-binding term sheet that would outline the terms of the development agreement and other required uh documents what we've heard a lot of um Vision um we we've heard a lot of uh ideas and we've heard from the developer who has
joined us here what I would like to do is bring the um our consultant Andor our team here um who's you know who who came to present the information uh to it's not really a a response to everything that has been said but their professional opinion about if we place this item on consent or GBA and it sounds like GBA would be the agenda what would we what would we be doing or what would they need to tell us when we talk about it the next time so I hope that that is not putting them on the spot but I think it will be helpful uh helpful to us Mr M as they come do you m man I appreciate you for for providing that context because I I do want to speak briefly to to Pro process and and um keep Integrity to process we we issued an RFP um that RFP has been responded to we
now actually have concrete proposals before us so all things considered I'm I'll put a stake in the ground I I am comfortable with people's base uh proposal if if just in deference to the RFP we we we ask for proposals the proposals will come back this is the one I would be prepared um to support you know now if if if a majority of us want to reopen RP process or or nuances or give direction to um maybe tweak some things that you can negotiat or see if it's workable within this within this within this uh proposal run the number and see how that would impact it um then I'm certainly comfortable with that but in deference to the process um I think this RFP reflected the conver Sation we've had um the system has worked we've got proposals back there's a recommendation for proposal and and I'll state that I am comfortable with people's base proposal and I if if if it came down to it I would vote for it thank you and until that point I would agree
and I would also be um okay with moving forward with the people's Bas so Mr Mayor from my perspective I also support peoples I think it's the best I think I love the vision as I said I think it's the best we've got here um I'm not prepared to support the motion though I think there's another step here I would love to have General Services have another conversation with Peebles and to just because I don't because I know last time with Carl Rist it took us a year to find out it didn't work right I'd love to have a conversation to say what would it look like if some of the stuff we talked about here were in were part of The Proposal that it was a long-term ground lease not a sale right if there were more affordable housing for example so I think those kind of I think there's maybe five or six questions we'd love to have the general Services team explore with pees to know whether we want to then enter that agreement but I'm not prepared to support that yet until I'd like to see one further discussion with with uh with pees right let's turn these mics off
MD just one question around that and so just because I know when we went through it the first time there were some concerns what I what I don't want to happen is that um there's because if this were operating as an economic development conversation it'd be very different than it is under General services and what's public and what's not public um is different I don't want us to hinder the ability so what I'm saying is if we did agree to the base and the terms those things that council member riss mentioned could still happen and would still happen but what I don't want to happen is that we hinder our staff from actually being able to move forward with a developer that's from the RFP that we've made the request on and so I don't want us to to be the preventer and and us being able to move forward um I want to make sure that we're being supportive of the staff and getting through this third process and moving us to the next step to make
sure that the details that that have been outlined I think those are like as the city manager mentioned the vision all that's been taken into account I don't think that the staff would not not take all of that and try to push it all forward and so I do want to just offer a kind of I know the council member at risk and cook our newer and Baker I do think that our staff I do have High um comfort with the staff pushing forward on some of those things that have been stated and I don't think that that should stop us from moving forward so I I just want to say that M May if I might just a Dov tail on council member Freeman and amplify what she said associate myself with the comments I I um I I agree BEC be we're at when at at the point now we're making a decision and and I mean this you from a policymaking point of view I'm not sure what when is what what what number is of more would be sufficient I mean if we started at 90
would we have said 100 if they had brought a 100 would we say 120 from a from a decision-making point of view what what does more mean is it five more is it what number is sufficient and if we know what that number is maybe we should just say that now because two is more one is more so from a policymaking point of view actual decision-making and substituting variables um I think we're at a point now where we you know we're we've got to be very precise and specific with our language um how much is enough um do we just want to make this an entire affordable housing project and and you know we should say that and and I say that because we all share the same values but when it comes to the actual decision making the actual nuts and bolts of of making the policy we need actual numbers now we're at the point now where we got to substitute the variables and and and and fill in the blanks so if we've got a number we should say it thank you this um well let
me go here first and then I'll go over yeah I I think when I spoke I just said that I wasn't sure there are some motions within here that I think we we do need to take up regardless like the h& part of the contract that needs to move forward it's why I said I'm not sure which motions need to stay and which don't um I think the thing to to council member Freeman and mayor PM's Point yes they've responded to the RFP yes I'm open to negotiation as long as I'm not then stuck with the thing that I don't want and what I don't want is not to have a thorough conversation on the land piece of it because I that is that that is the thing that gives me the most anxiety because to Mayor prm's point in 2018 we thought we were going to get a windfall at cash and that's not what's happening here and so if I can't get a windfall of cash then what's the best alternative for me financially longterm for the city and for residents and that's maintain that's ownership it's always going to be ownership in a in a in a country that we got down this at our work session the other day in a country that really does Real Estate
speculation right we we had that so just like for individuals we really think about wealth generation we have to think about wealth generation for the city of um and so that that's a piece that I just that's why I asked for that Clarity I'm fine with this thing as long as then I'm not screwing myself the six months down the road that that's what I want to know say it so crassly yeah I mean I want to pay you back off of that and I and I and you know council member is can correct me if I'm wrong but I think what I'm hearing is that there's there's just trepidation in terms of of going into too far down the line and then realizing that things might look different than what we think that they are going to look like and so if we can know that sooner rather than later we can really have an honest conversation about what things were willing to cut and what things were not right and so um I don't think anybody I actually think every single person that has spoken has talked about the importance of commercial I don't think anybody here wants to cut all the commercial for retail I don't think
that's been said by anyone um and um and I and I do think that we're talking about where what might it look like what could it look like with a substantial um greater affordable units and so and I am happy to put up forth the number because um the six organizations that came forward in this uh community group asked specifically for 175 affordable units that was the specific asked and they were looking at a 60% Ami I believe um and it's not that it's make or break in in terms of numbers for me but that is a substantial number amount more than what was offered originally and so what I would like to see is um is some conversation and and I do trust the stff to to have that conversation it's just that I want them to have the conversation sooner rather than later and then we can sort of decide in terms of what we want to commit to uh with more information upfront as opposed to having it later down the line um if y'all have worked with me now for six months you know that I like to have all
of the things in front of me when I make the decisions and so that's why I pull everything off the agenda and that's kind of what I am thinking here too um and again it's those numbers to me like I think you know council member Freeman put it really well they're not affordable until they're built right like no number is Affordable we have zero affordable units right now so that is something to keep in mind and I think we're all sort of ready to to start um in on the on that process um but I I would agree with that I want to see what it can look like um given we've talked about here today I saw these folks taking copious notes so I know that they're listening and I feel like we're going to get some conversation and that could come back sooner rather than later and then we could really make a decision moving forward so well all sorry so you're Michel I was just gonna ask if on the base of people folks feel comfortable because I feel like if the more you can
knock out the motion that might be you know a unanimous it's a little bit easier for staff to move us along but um just in and acknowledging like if we at least have that part then that's done and then we can move forward with those six areas of negotiation that folks have mentioned like that could be something just on the units and the land so um just hold on one second c m um Pro time thank you Mr Mayor I I um I'm cool with with with you know what whatever this Council wants to do it's with an our perview to do but I I do want to draw a distinction between tweaking what's before us or reopening the RFP process which is is and which which is which is we can do that if we want to do that but
but if I might there are no surprises in these proposals we knew that selling the land with terms was was one of the thing was within the purview of what we asked for I mean we we could have said we're keeping the land send us proposals based upon keeping it we didn't do that so if we want to if we want to do that if we want to explore some other options we can do that but I I just want to call a thing a thing if if if we're doing if we want to reop in the RFP process because we can tweak this thing to a point where it is substantively different from what we've asked for where the numbers are totally different and that's that's just math that's just the way it works and which I'm not I don't have a problem with but I just want to be you know just blatantly call it what it is we have a new Council we have new council members I think someone said earlier you know priorities change and things change this where it's a deliberative process which I honor and love but you know I just
want to call it what it is if if if we're not satisfied with these proposals tweaking them to a certain point is a de facto reopening of the RFP process and and and I think I want to just just call it what it is um and I see you know some staff nodding so I mean I I want to just you know call it what it is okay real quick uh before I go here um your request was allow the staff to go back and uh provide what what was your request earlier a little clear what what I was trying to bring us to is we H we're in an agenda cycle when we're here in the work session it's going to be 11 days until we get to the council meeting on that Monday night we have motions in front of us I heard commentary that some council members are not really comfortable with the Motions which would mean there would have to be changes in the Motions between here and the council meeting
and so what I wanted us to be able to do is determine whether or not on in 11 days from now we have enough information from the majority or a consensus from the council um that the words that we see here in front of us are going to represent what can be approved um 11 days from now because we will need to do that because when we leave this meeting we go back and you know we don't get the direction that we need you may not be happy 11 days from now okay so for the for my sake of leading us to directing the staff what needs to be said can I just do a quick poll out of the options we have and and Madam attorney you just give me a notot if I'm out of line here out of the options we have are we saying we are okay with going with pees just based on
what I'm hearing people's base people's base okay now we understand where we're going with that we are now looking to modify requests does that require us to go back and reopen the RFP which I don't think we need to what we're looking at is how can how much can we I guess how much time does it take to uh consider where we are about equally split on which is what are the opt not necessarily split curiosity where what does it look like to sell the land with terms or keep or lease the land like like a 99 year lease or something and the other is you know how much more affordable units can we do and how how does that shift the financial model um so I think um what I'm what I'm hearing is that there's a preferred development firm yes and that there's
two Focus areas which you would like the staff to focus on as we move into development of a term sheet affordable affordable percentage Yeah looking hard at what the affordable number of affordable units looks like yes and um additionally looking at the opportunity to have the land be permanently owned by the city in some sort of longer term framew work now those are those are those are the things we're looking at yes but I think we we have two different things we have to do here we have to provide you all with Direction and I think within that direction we need to provide some considering the wordage the verbage here we have to provide you some flexibility so that we're not locked in under our emotion right but we are giving you direction to move forward so that we could provide you can provide us with options to choose from after it's been reconsidered right I think we could work on the motion that says um the non-binding term sheet and add some
words like with some intentionality around X number of units that y'all could tell us in additionally looking to a land long-term land lease as a potentiality so giving us some opportunity in that framework to have further discussions with the developer but also giving them some Fidelity that they are spending money to do this work that there are real costs for this that they have worked hard to provide something that achieve AI the goals as we defined them previously but so that gives them some Fidelity as we move forward with a motion of yeah this is the preferred team and we're going to go negotiate with some focus on the areas that we feel like need to be bolstering n namely X number of units and if y'all want to tell us that number of unit well can we hold because that that's I'm I'm I'm a bit afraid of that language because we don't have performance in front of us we're not financiers yeah so maybe having an option of ranges but us telling but there may be a way to say there is a preference for some smaller units versus larger units or there may be some way for us to have some conversation and
present back to y'all in 11 days some high level kind of Frameworks for the same way we do with budget some optionality stuff just let's look at let's look at affordability of of units through type and volume and that those options come out again I sell chicken for a living so I I don't build housing right so I don't I feel uncomfortable telling you how much it should be when I'm not paying for it but that's why I mean we can be a partner in this so I want to give you all staff and the developer flexibility to come up with ranges to provide us in options well I can say you're right ranges because I think it's gonna cost a different different it's to change the numbers so like some kind of range of like yes we're open to more affordable this is what it might look like but you know and we're open to a ground lease I think I think if we those are what we want to hear I think and and then if if that's if if that's agreeable to the developer then I think the motion becomes much simpler to support and if I could just make sure to to kind of pull
in um council member Baker and his absence the conversation around the market rate being um but if there's an opportunity to do that I want to offer that I would be willing to go up to 80 and not 100 like there should be some some additional flexibility on what affordable is if we can maintain market rate rents at a 5% for um inflation because that that type of that type of rent rate is more beneficial for a larger percentage of the folks in our population even though we want to make sure that there's a targeted number that is specific to 60 and below I want to make sure that that if there is an additional 100 or 100 units or a number of units that there is a lot more flexibility on the compensation of what that affordability looks like and hope hopefully I apologize Mr Mayor I just want to say I I want you as the developer to be very careful because I want to provide Fidelity to the space to negotiate I
don't want you to make any promises or concessions or anything today I just want you to hear this conversation so whatever you're about to say just no worries and uh certainly uh I know better than to come up to the de and say something that I don't mean and can't stand behind uh but with with that in mind we are certainly open to a ground lease execution and have executed long-term ground leases with a number of municipalities uh including the city of Mii Beach uh where uh we now office in a building we built on a ground lease that we leased from the city of Miami Beach for 99 years uh we've built a hotel uh with them as well with a similar structure so we're very very familiar um with with those sorts of executions uh on the second piece and you know we we do this a fair amount around the country so uh please take this suggestion with a bit of a grain of salt but uh in terms of the motion uh we'd be uh excited to uh negotiate the term sheet and explore
options surrounding maximizing affordability within the context of the broader objectives yeah thank you and and and colleagues I the reason why I'm stuck on the options and the ranges because I'm thinking about the loan I'm thinking about the size of it I'm thinking about the the what we can get from it so I that's why I want to hear what the options are before I commit to saying you know a land leas versus just selling straight out or selling with terms so that you haven't heard me fall down on either side of that because I want to hear what the options are but go ahead yeah I'm I'm also just curious while you're up here like what you know these two things that we want to look at in more detail like what feels like a reasonable time because I think that also might affect what type of motion we pass tonight does it right it doesn't I mean to me it's like if we're going to put it on um GBA and then we're going to go towards a I mean I if if I may I I I understand your question where our schedule is has 10day differences no of
course of course so so here's how I would suggest we work through the process uh to me the motion on the agenda is to a award the or select a preferred development partner and authorize staff to negotiate in order to maximize afford ility within the context of the broader objectives that'll then get voted on I think in the 18th and then staff is going to come to us we'll sit down we'll negotiate a term sheet that's going to speak to all of those things commissioner cook or council member cook that uh that you're looking for uh we'll negotiate a relatively extensive term sheet uh which will'll have within it and again this is take this with a grain assault this certainly how we've done this other places and I think it's relatively efficient uh a ter broader term sheet that captures not only the terms of the disposition whether it be fee simple or a long-term ground lease the terms of the affordability not just particular Ami banss but duration the terms of the financing and the bond inclusive of the
term and the interest rate and the repayment mechanisms and then we'll return back to you all to bless that term sheet uh we can do that relatively quickly um and uh would anxious to say that if not by the next Council session depending on how your agendas work uh the one after that uh we're excited and and ready to move forward so and and just take this with a grain of salt um I I I'm excited I like the way you guys work but yeah we're gonna take our time and hurry up we were doing great for that last line yeah um okay de with a grain of salt yeah yeah um just just and and just just for not the reason why I'm being really broad about it is because I want to make sure that you know uh staff has a chance to really dissect and and really like listen to what we've said our dialogue today because I I don't want I don't want this to get to the
point where you know it's like one council member you're trying to do this and one council member you're trying to do that listen to what we're saying as a council and staff and you all come up with the best options to present back to us um sta agrees and so so what I were saying is the timing of that that's and I guess that's back to like stat in your team right and and the the development team yeah take take take your time and and and hurry up on this one and we'll be we'll be ready for when you bring it back to us but we want to make sure we get this right but I feel like we're getting close to making it happen with the next few months mayor pro thank you Mr Mayor a quick question for the development team what a what a ground Le situ that could potentially impact the amount of money up up front we get correct right so my I I I I I like your team I like your team based upon the terms that are in front of me right now
I'm a bit I mean as a fiduciary of the city I'm a bit uncomfortable with kind of locking a team in when the numbers are going to be different because I I I know you have a sterling reputation I don't know that if the changes we're asking for if presented to other teams they could present better numbers um so so to kind of have a preferred um vendor if you will and kind of guarantee we're going to give you our business and go tweak these numbers they may come back favorable but I I don't have enough information to know that given because scenario now is changing given that same scenario to another developer their numbers wouldn't be better than yours um so I I can't publicly declare that I'm going to vote to give you know without seeing what those final numbers look like yet after you work them and I don't know that somebody else couldn't do better than what you bring back under the amended terms so I I like you guys very much but
I like you based upon what's in front of me right now so as a decision maker and would you know with difference to my colleagues I I don't know that somebody else wouldn't bring better numbers underground Le situation recover your you want to respond to that I'd love to uh certainly uh that that point is well taken I think that uh I have two caveats uh the first one is that we can structure a long-term ground lease to nearly identically mirror a fee simple disposition uh we're doing that now with Massachusetts Department of Transportation and negotiated that with uh with Scott Bosworth with whom uh you had the chance to speak with um the the second piece is that uh one once we are authorized to negotiate with staff to the extent that uh the body is not happy with the changes made on the term sheet uh there is in my understanding no obligation to move forward with our team uh our goal is to move forward with what's proposed uh to the extent that uh
in the midst of this partnership and we certainly perceive it as a partnership uh the objectives and structure were to change uh we hope that they change in a way that is mutually beneficial and one that uh allows all of us to move forward enthusiastically well I appreciate that based upon what you said then that that does that doesn't require a vote on our part to make any representations and you I mean you can do that work without us voting to say that you're our prefer preferred so and and there's where there's a bit of a rub uh it's as a partnership we we imagine that there's incremental steps I think the word that was used previously was Fidelity uh when we negotiate a term sheet and move forward in this process uh we'll spend tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars continuing and perpetuating uh the uh the program that we've put forward when when you ask for that same sort of you know commensurate effort on our part we want to know uh that you're not dating anybody else sure no absolutely no I I I feel you I feel we
we we don't want to run around on you and that's my point that's my point it's hundreds of thousand it's Millions for us as a city and and I guess if you can guarantee us that whatever numbers you bring back you'll beat anybody in the market that's that's one thing but again as my responsibility is to the city of durm so I want to keep I'm prepared to keep Fidelity with you based upon these terms that are in front of me now but we are substantively asking you to do new math on different terms so and the math may very well be beneficial for us but I can't in good conscience you know say that I'm gonna just you know uh uh uh dat you thank you for you know without knowing that somebody else out there maybe more attractive I hate this I I I do like the metaphor and and would love would love to take it over from here uh I I think that that what's that what's happened is that we've just met
and okay I'm every the D Council not tender so let's bring it back without a doubt and to the extent that we move forward right and there is Fidelity and we both invest a meaningful amount of time energy and effort in perpetuating this partnership and to some degree the body is not happy uh with the program presented with small changes uh then there is no obligation on behalf of the body to not move to another respondent uh our goal is to know that we have the exclusive right to negotiate uh and to respond uh holistically or in part to all of your questions and concerns All I'm gonna go over here thank you I um just really quickly part of the thing that I just want to bring us back to is we're here also because there there were many of us who had questions on this RFB process that was not a not this is not for the development team so
appreciate this is for staff I was one of the council members who you know we got kind of pushed along around the second round of RFP and so we're here partly I wanted lower I wanted smaller commercial I said that I was one of the folks and in fact the L the land uh the land option or the lease option was brought to us by staff after the failure of Carl Rist as a potential um Financial Ben benefit to the city because the market had changed so much so some of this is because things have changed and some of it is because uh with the RF P that got us here there was a conversation of like well it's not binding or it's okay we have opportunities to change so I don't want to be told today well actually that's not true because I was definitely one of the council members at the time who said you know how locked in are we going to be and so we're back here in the same moment how locked in are we going to be and here are my concerns and my concerns have been pretty consistent uh and so I am perfectly fine moving
forward I'm delighted with the proposal in front of us I have two big question I would like to see the financials on it I'm fine with the Motions as they are as long as those motions get me that thing and if they're not going to get me that thing then I'm not okay with the Motions that's it it's very simple for me thank you council member Freeman thank you and I think to that point I've I've felt your contention and I think I've I've had a little bit on the I just want to make sure that the units land and so I I do want to say that the Motions as they are written which is why I was trying to express actually deliver just what we're asking for and so I just wanted to make sure so it was good to have the conversation and make sure that everyone's point of view especially for the newer council members were included so that you could get consensus around the board because I did I think we heard consensus on the land we heard consensus on well I think we have part consensus on the hotel I think we heard part consensus on um there was one other
thing on the additional units like well I think I think we have and those things that are floating will come back to us with the actual contract for the deal what I'm talking about is like after this negotiation that would still come back to us we would still be I'm I'm G guarantee you there's going to be at least two three four more meetings where we have to have the same present presenters uh present and then also folks from the community say the same things that they've said today a number more times it is I mean I think we're at like at least 15 or 16 right now but there'll be at least six at least four or five more and so I don't want I what I what I felt like was happening is that it's it's almost like you feel like this is as we as we move there's more reticence and hesitation and and I feel like in this process we've gotten to a good point we have uh a developer that the staff has recommended that more people are on board with than previously
and the experience of the previous fa like Carl Rist situation uh we're in a much better position than we were before it's not the same the things that we're talking about are all negotiation points and I think your vote is the negotiating point of your like that is your point of negotiation rather than making it a spelled out written thing in a motion I feel like if we left these motions the same and we allowed staff to go back that would be the simplest I won't say easy or quickest but simplest way to move forward okay um go ahead so I think what so I think we all recognize the experience previously where we spent a year negotiating with Carl Rist it comes back a year later and it's not what we want we we're back to square one right so I think what we're saying here is that for for a number of us in the council to move forward with the motion
to accept peoples as preferred developer there's a couple things that are kind of non-negotiable one is the ground lease one is more maximizing affordability those are two things and so if we can have more information on that more some kind of some Assurance by by the next meeting happy to support the motion if not not ready and just just to be clear we those aren't they're not um nonstarter they are things that were they they're negotiating points cuz we we you we don't make you know you know you know it's like there are like three people that may want one thing three people that want another that doesn't mean the council is not going to go forward with it so I just I I hear what you're saying we want what we're doing is looking at those two main things as all right give us give us options around what it would look like if we sold with terms sold straight out or a ground lease it doesn't mean we're not choosing you unless you give us the ground leas so so what we're saying is let's move forward let's because we haven't
taken a vote so we don't have a position on this yet we're giving direction you are looking at the ground lease you're looking at the ground lease someone else may be looking at the ground lease that does not mean the Duram city council is saying we're not going with you unless you give us the ground unless we do the ground lease what we're saying is give us the options of those so we're saying let's move forward and allow the staff to go into negotiation with them and give us the options because right now they're far ahead than anyone else based on the assessment um thank you uh council member and Mr Mayor so just just point of clarity on what happened with Carl Rist it wasn't that Carl Rist came back and we didn't like what they brought us Carl Rist failed the deal fell through we took a a duly uh binding vote we gave Carl Rist the business then they came back and said that they weren't able to uh do the building whatever it was at cost so so to be clear this would be a done deal if
Carl Rist were able to carry through with what they said we wouldn't be having this conversation right now so want to be clear about that um secondly just in terms of I just want to be clear on what what I'm what I'm actually going to be voting on if if we're waiting for more information Then I then I I'm I don't understand what the Motions if I'm vot because when we cast a vote that is a legally that's a legal thing when a council pass uh passes a vote takes a vote so am I I guess am I voting am I committing to you're our guy or person um but in the meantime go back and bring these numbers and if you bring the numbers back and we don't like them that nullifies the vote the legally binding vote that that we took because for me if if if we're waiting for more information to come what's the point of voting I mean we can just have that Arrangement but and but I understand I understand the develop position they're looking for a lock in a lock in with a
lock on it and if we're locking in on terms yet to be determined or or could possibly change I'm just as a decision maker I'm I just want to be clear on what I am casting and committing the city to in a legal way because you know the information if we're awaiting more information let's await more information before I cast a vote why do I need to cast a vote pending information let me let me get the um let me get the presence of the council real quick are we saying we are sending this back to staff but if we do send it back to staff to reconsider then that means we're sending this back for all applicants I believe that's something we have to consider or are we like are we locking in and moving and allowing this developer to come back with options or are we saying we're not ready to move this to GBA yet and allow the changes to come back but do know if that happens then I I believe
to be fair it's going to be everybody so we're going to go through this process all over again I personally speaking um individually speaking rather I I think that I I don't want to I want to get this right so I'm I'm kind of split here I want to get this right but at the same time I don't want to be deemed as bad to do business with you know uh and and and I don't want to feel like I'm playing around with you know folks that are I'm not spending money to do all of this this is really expensive work uh so I just want to put that out there that that's what that that is that is true on this site so um so it's a matter of risk here uh for me and I'm I'm I'm willing to I'm I'm ready to make a decision on that but go ahead yeah I actually totally agree with with everything you said I I think it would be help you say that again just a record okay yeah just but
I I I think where we're getting stuck is that we don't have Clarity around what our options are because what I'm hearing is that some people are like I'm ready to go to a fact sheet and then other people are like if if this thing is not possible then I am not willing to push this motion through right and so like that's a pretty big divide is there is there middle ground that we can get to in this meeting that we can put on our Council agenda that somehow meets both of those is there is there a way to word this motion that is different than it is currently so that we can get that information so that folks can feel comfortable voting one way or the other go ahead thank you I thought uh dacey offered suggested language on the second which is what it's really the only one to it's the third one that one I thought there was a discussion on on kind of providing es providing options and so I thought that that was an okay suggestion because it gives us options which is
what I think many of us kind of want to know if it comes out that like a land um whatever it's called Uh yeah is terrible for the city mayor ptim I'm not going to vote for it I just want to know what it looks like it's like when I'm looking at interest rates and I want to know you know okay do I get a 15 locked in 15E locked in Mor do I get a 30y year locked in more you know it's like just give me options because again and I've already stated it there were the many or I was one of the council members who did not love the last RFP process and I was told you're not you're not having to buy the house right now and now I'm feeling pushed again and I'm not going to be pushed I don't care if it takes us a minute the Market's been crazy for the last four years and so I'm okay with making sure that we get the best bang for our buck and six years ago it was Cashman fall that we never got and so here we are again so that's it if there is language that can be added to the second part of that motion the third
basically the third Bullet to allay the concerns of council members on ranges and options on the affordability and the retention of land that is really all that needs to happen give you mavier I agree with you um but and you I think the critical what you said is options plural this is one person this is one entity and the the there may be if we're looking at a land lease there may be another vendor out there who can do better than this one options plural um and and and my point and that's precisely my point that I'm I'm fully comfortable with going with this vendor under these terms under this that we've asked for we are now asking for something different than and at the time we had the discussion I mean we all had our were reticent about something had our anxieties about something but we crossed a four vote threshold that's why this RFP looks the way it is because we got four people to say this is what we wanted this is what we've gotten and
based upon that that in a very linear sense based upon that process I'm comfortable with this RFP with this proposal as stated if we are making substantive changes and a land lease versus what's per us is a substantive change I'm not comfortable with saying I want to just hear what you can do on this substantive change when there may very well be someone else out there that can do better thank you let me go to council member yeah so I just want to be and I want to turn to the City attorney if we could on this so this's idea that we sort of that if we ask for some so a couple key changes here that we somehow throw this thing in a flux and have to do a whole RFP process I think and City attorney correct me or wrong I think we have ample authority to to negotiate with whomever we want right so so the idea that we have to somehow throw it back on a big process I don't think that's correct so but but correct me if I'm wrong you are correct council member that you don't you're not required to start back at Ground Zero I thing we're
saying is we want to have one more before we start dating we just want to have one more conversation right that's what what we're saying right so why we have to vote then that my I don't have a problem with them bringing back other recommendations but listen to what he said he wants us to be locked in which I understand because they've spent money I mean we can get other options without voting we can just ask hey would you bring us these numbers and see what they look like that's an option too but if if it's kind of like we want them without wanting them I mean if if is you is or is you ain't I mean if we if we're going to go with them then that's fine and I have no problem with any of this I'm just simp saying as one decision maker I'm not going to say yes when I want to see some other information why would I do that well good thing is we're not voting today and not today buttion right and but what we do have is we have to authorize the city manager to negotiate and execute a contract with consulting services for the disposition of
Redevelopment of 55 West Chapel Hill Street in city of dur I I appreciate mayor protim and I um council member risk um commentary I just want to add to that question is there a legal liability um and not so say for instance that one of the other RFP um applicants decided to sue us because we actually made all these changes and they could have provided something different what's the legal liability around that I'm gonna invite senior Deputy City Attorney Fred Lamar up to answer but we do not believe that there's legal recourse yeah yeah good afternoon Fred Lamar with the city attorney's office um no we we have discretion in this case to decide that we prefer you know we're by by the way just as a clarification mayor protm is I
don't think that by accepting by directing um staff to start negotiating with people that we have accepted their proposal precisely because their proposal is not sufficiently detailed for anything to to permanently accept what what I believe you're doing by authorizing this is just that is just saying we like peoples we looked at what we looked at these other folks their qualifications what they presented um and we like the people's package that's not perfect it's not the the one uh that we want that we know we're going to end up with but we like it enough to give you direction to continue Communications and negotiations with them and I think that a lot is I think we are not sort of in respon to council member um Freeman's comment it is unlikely staff is going to come back to you the next time with a development agreement to sign it's highly unlikely um because there's a lot of negotiation that's going to happen there there are commitments on the part
of the uh on the part of the uh consultant to the I'm sorry on the part of um people the developer that they're going to have to make investments as part of the negotiation you know in my mind that's up for a discussion what do we need from them to feel confident enough that we can um enter into binding a binding term sheet or a binding um uh um development agreement but all of that is is we it is very very in my opinion very very preliminary I I think all you all are are are are are trying to do right now is to give direction to the C to the uh staff to say we like the direction you're going keep keep going more or less in that same direction but come back you know we understand you're going to come back and check check in with us again before the city's you know committed um and so I think that will be a number of steps did I answer and so I'm not let me let me to answer your question more succinctly the city didn't have to do an RFP the city could have just found a consultant they really
liked and uh a team that they really liked said hey we want to develop the city-owned property all we need to do is make sure that whatever funding and however we dispose of the property complies with um the State Constitution and we have St statutory authority to follow the procedures for that we could have picked our own private negotiation with our private developer but that's not obviously that's not the way that you all wanted to operate and you made it an open process um we'll will one of the uh uh proposers sort of complain say I can do better if you give me another chance maybe I mean but it's at the discretion of the city decide whether or not they want to want to go through that process Council m question does it require a motion or a vote for us to direct the management the city manager to have further talks no it does not and that that is and my my comments hinged on the motions and and and voting because and I think and this has been
very helpful I mean I'll vote to say I like them I I do like them um and but my concern is that well I've already stated my concern but that's very helpful we don't have to vote or to direct the manager to continue conversations with that's that's a great point but I think that to that point that's where it becomes sticky because then each Council member's viewpoints are not coalesced and so I will say that to council member Javiera Ro's um noting in the last process the only reason I was okay with going forward is because I understand like it's it's non-binding and if four council members felt a certain way about the number of units or the land or whether or not Milton small was there like all of those things are still up for debate all the way through until this is till the contract is signed and so I that's why I was okay the last time because I heard you I felt I felt the tension the last
time as well and it was only two of us who were up for keeping the building and and yeah so it wasn't it was still a possibility that they could go away I'm not and that which is why appreciate what council member Middleton I'm May appr Middleton is saying as far as like trying to hold Fidelity in the process if we want to open it up and make it a you know you know open for grabs we what I'm concerned about is that our name is Muddy if we were to make those funds available for people specifically to go out and do what needs to happen next I would feel more comfortable if we want to open it up and and say whatever this that and the other because what is happening is that we are limiting we're we're going to continue to limit ourselves and who's willing to do the business with us and the cost of the production is going to go up dramatically I know that November's coming Winter's coming but
but but we don't want we don't want to we don't want to wait for what we don't know and what I'm clear on is that this is an opportunity right now to do a lot of what we've talked about over the last seven years and allow for folks to pour in some of the some of their thoughts and ideas around what they would like to see even though they're newer to council so the I I appreciate the two items that you said to add into the the the third motion and the rest of the motion is remaining the same and if we could at least get four people to say they would like to move forward with that I think we could wrap up this meeting I think there's unit ity and first of all I based upon council's statement I don't I don't think we need a motion or vote to direct staff to have further conversations and explore and there's unanimity I want i' I'd like to get information about the ground lease no I'm not opposed to that I'd like to get information about more units I'm an affordable housing person that that's how I got involved in politics and
Durham so I'd love to see more units but if we can do that and not have to vote on it I mean just have staff have the conversations and bring us back what they uh you know what they find and then then we can take it from there that's where I am so mam manager so there actually um four motions here one you know top one was obviously to receive a presentation um having conversations with um the partners that we that we consult with um are not are not free conversations and you know that so two of these motions um you know as we're moving to where we're going we we definitely would need to um to adopt the third and fourth motions in order to continue to have um discussions and move this project forward we would definitely need to have to do that no no no no on on
GBA all right so colleagues let us please uh I think that we we have some direction here um and and we have 11 days for this to the Motions to be modified to our liking um I think what staff needs today is are we moving forward Adam manager wait yeah I'm I'm I mean OB obviously we need to pay them if they're going to do more work to be clear I am prepared to cast a vote for base the Bas proposal I'm prepared to but my colleague we're not there as a council so secondarily beyond that I'm prepared to to empower them to have further conversations with with staff around what my colleagues the points my colleagues have brought up uh and pay them yes so obviously you know I'll vote but I'm prepared to adopt Bas plan a but since we're not there I'm prepared to support further
conversations around landle and more units and to pay them for those conversations all right and the them you you're talking about is specific to the consultant consultant my bad cool so we we're we're um Stacey do you have um all right so colleagues can we get a can I get a thumbs up on Le motions of three and four all right you know what mayor please take over I am over here twitching because I need to us yes sir Stace you wanted to uh say something so um so so the same way the consultant would be expending additional funds you know the development team will be expending funds I mean there is a lift here um the development
proposals that we've received are very different it feels like there is consensus around one firm with the six goals and I'm wondering if the motion number two could be modified to add at the end of it with consideration around possibilities for revisiting the number of units and um and a land lease and and and passing a motion to allow us to go to a term sheet with those other factors highlighted for us for our extra attention allowing us to move forward with the developer giving them some Fidelity for the work that they've expended over the last year and also you know sort of affirming to the development community that that we we are we are on the right path and we want to move this project forward and that you know doing business in in Durham makes sense and that that we're headed towards a a conclusion of you know of a term sheet okay with considerations for the possibility with consideration towards the number of units of affordable
housing and consideration of a land lease so we will move forward as a staff with those things heightened things in mind as we begin to negotiate with the developer around a term sheet which we will bring back that term sheet to council for consensus and approval which is what we have done previously colle I'll pull I'm sorry colleagues I'll pull the house just a clarifying question we're not actually taking a vote like that that direction we would be giving you at the meeting when we took a formal vote on it this works and we are not doing that correct correct we would revise the motion and present back to you for the Monday night for the vote okay my my only question then is like so so this process you said we will sort of modify the motion potentially just to include this sort of like revisit for under consideration and you'll bring back that term sheet so how long does that process take is that like two months two years like so I think um we have not engaged in conversations with this particular
developer around the term sheet what where we were last time is we started on a term sheet and we ended up with a full development agreement so I think if there's some intentionality and conversation we could have with the developer between now and the Monday night meeting we could give a sense of the range and the attorneys a sense of you know a high level term sheet of what it might take Fred is coming over here Fred Lamar with the city attorney's office um I think that to to my understanding is the council wants to look at um the similar proposal from peoples but looking at the ground lease and the added affordable in my mind that look is something you would do before you negotiate term term sheet I mean term sheets can mean different things um but it just seems like if you're otherwise it sounds like you're asking for two term sheets um because term sheet is really the deal points that you will put into a development agreement and so they're they're pretty much you know hardboiled uh at least in my
opinion I think that they would be so so if my understanding is there's maybe an interim step before I'm looking for Stacy before before um they would come back with that term sheet say hey we've looked at the numbers again remember that proposal we submitted we we've um presented in a similar sort of highlevel format and here's what it looks like which one do you want us to go with to do the term sheet that would be my recommendation which goes precisely to my earlier point we're polling a house council member um have yeah I've been I mean since the time that that was suggested to add a little bit more specificity on that motion I've been fine with it I'm gonna I'm gonna trust the folks who do this to to tell me I just don't want to shut the door that's it I said that 30 minutes ago Council Freeman counc Mr Mayor I'll you back well I was pulling the house keep going keep going all right um Stacy have you discerned clear
Direction from based upon that yes we will draft a revised motion and come back on the Monday night and we will have conversation with our attorneys around the word term sheet and what that what will be in a term sheet and so maybe there's three steps here instead of two and kind of what what is in that so we will have those conversations all right see you're onor you should left room earlier I see that put a bow on it thank you so M manager do you have any final comments or direct are we clear all right I I think we I think that's it on this topic Mr Mar yield back I'm all right thank you guys I uh just uh just a moment of personal and professional privilege here I just want to thank you all um just how rich our Civic discussion can actually be um I this it's an honor to be able to like get so deep in the details around
policy like this this is good work yeah I just want to Echo that and say I'm I'm actually um grateful that the storm came so that the kids did not start school today and I could stay past three yes yes this was going to be it was supposed to be a short meeting um however council member cook this was not your fault today all right so I I just wanted to say thank you guys um I mean I know folks are watching on YouTube and across across the way we have other council members across the state that actually do tune into dur city council uh so this was uh you want to get deep into the policy folks that's how you do it thank you all so much uh we need to settle the agenda oh yeah um sorry madam Court good afternoon Council and thank you um the Durham cultural Advisory Board appointment for a general member
position is Barbara Lao the nomination is the Durham Sports commission appointment nomination is Monica Brown and the Duran bicycle and pedestrian advisory commission appointment for the category of Youth is Philip L sakalis and that's the end of my report thank you um there was one more thing while you here um and thank you uh community members for coming out and for your patience um colleagues I don't need a public response but just one more one more thing one of the budget La items last year was to um uh renew renew the furniture um again the reason why I proposed that was I still have Bill Bill's Furniture uh and and it's really really old so I propose that for the entire Council Suite you do have the option to opt out if you do not want
to or feel you need U any new furniture or that you don't have an active office like M uh so just please make sure you let the clerk know that by today but we will be moving forward today I I just I want to make sure I let everyone know I let the clerk know that I was fine with the furniture and I support the the mayor's office and the conference room being updated because both of them need the technology updates um for both of those locations so um I know that some some folks might have other needs and I what I am most concerned about is the price tag and that dollar amount is very high but um I'm not sure if if if the the interior decorator could be limited to those two locations but that might be a little bit helpful or even in the area all of that and it's way down for what it was and it would the more people opt out the less we spend yes and we we've we've we've gotten it pretty down significantly
colleagues one last thing I do have something uh pretty significant that I look forward to sharing with you all next week and I'll I'll send it to you via email right I'll go ahead I don't need any furniture I'm good but I do think those common spaces in the mayor's office do thank you yeah I just I just asked for a couch from General services that was already within our repertoire if you recall and so yeah I'm I'm good yeah I know I wanted yours actually um thanks so yeah I'm good so so much for not responding publicly thank you all for that uh Dian I think you have what you need so yeah I'm fine yeah I think no that's what I said by email I think the conference room and the mayor's office for sure but I am concerned about the cost and a year where we're raising taxes significantly out of residents and they're digging deep to pay and so like yeah let's be well the money the money was allocated in the budget we're going to save a lot if you don't have any
opposition to put it in the summer camp fund don't discuss that now just I'm just putting it out there okay uh but that's all I have Madam cler you have your direction only one I'm G I also have opted out I'm the only one that didn't get to say on the public record so I just want to say that I also opted out of the furniture guys my my office is very active I have people in there every day so that's yeah um Madam manager it's on you thank you Mr Mayor members of the council I have um for your next uh city council meeting for consent items one through four item six items 8 through 15 for GBA item items five and seven and GBA public hearings item 17 18 just one caveat with the item four may need to be updated that's all I number four so you wanted to stay on
consent all right uh any other matters we all good thank you all so much um and we are adjourn um I'll entertain a motion to settle the agenda so all in favor I I