City Council · Regular Meeting · March 21, 2024

Closed session at the conclusion of all regular business so that is the city attorney's priority request and then I'll give you the motion if you want to vote on that first yeah so will the council receive the attorney's request yes all in favor I'm sorry I'll entertain a motion now to receive the city attorney's priority item so moved second all in favor I I all oppose all right wonderful at the appropriate time your honor the council will reset say for a closed session the motion language is to hold a closed session pursuant to North Carolina General statute 143 31813 for attorney client consultation concerning the handling of a settlement demand for a yet to be filed liability action I entertain a motion for said request by the City attorney second REM move the stated and seconded all in favor please say I I'll opposed thank you so much thank you very much serious robers Rules of Order Flex today Mike is on all right Madame clerk I'll now hear your priority items thank you Mr.

Mayor welcome Mr Mayor mayor protm City Council Members the city clerk's office has no priority items today thank you for not having any CU we we're pushing it up here all right now I'll I'll read the consent agenda item number one Recreation advisory commission appointment number two Durham City County Environmental Affairs board appointment number three Durham cultural Advisory Board appointment four the February 2024 bid report I apologize for interrupting are we are we pulling items now i p number four you prefer you would like to pull pull number four please number four all right number five take-home vehicle performance audit report February 2024 number six fiscal year 2024 2025 budget development guidelines Mr May I'd like to pull that one as well number seven fiscal year 24 Grant agreement for an immigration legal defense Project M I just want to say on that I'm not I don't want to pull it just want to say this is this is really good work and I want to appreciate my colleague councilwoman cavier for.

Leading this work it's really important so thank you absolutely thank you council member Caballero for that as well number eight American Rescue plan act arpa project workers sustainability number nine mckisic square development amended loan commitment American Rescue plan act arpa affordable housing funds pull that one pull that one yeah you're pulling number nine number nine okay number nine okay all right on number number 10 portable radio Grant we already take that one number 11 revised ordinance Sunset extension and policy for the equal business opportunity program e up pull that one yeah all right y'all ready to be here all day let's do it number 11 which is pulled number 12 proposed lease agreement with Durham Housing Authority at 531 lakelin Street number 13 10th Amendment to the assignment agreement for the Durham Athletic Park for operating agreement 14 project construction manager at risk SAR contract for preconstruction services with laase Construction Services LLC for the city hall and nxh Vac project number 15 contract with MBP Carolina is incorporated for commissioning services.

For the city hall and NX haac project 16 Professional Services design contract with cmta of Kentucky Incorporated for the city hall NX HVAC project 17 inter local agreement with Durham County for the southeast Durham Watershed Improvement plan I'd like to pull that one. Second Amendment number 18 Second Amendment and restated contract with Atlas Organics cu2 LLC for the management of the city owned composting facilities number 19 is a presentation Durham destination master plan public hearings to come consolidated annexation R 751 21 is consolidation anation Lee Valley 22 Consolidated annexation 1324 Bungalow Avenue I know number 23 is citizens matter s Donal range which I'll be calling shortly and number 24 which we've already discussed all right that is our consent agenda re and there's one person one line okay Madam Clerk we going to start with the person online Jeremy Jeremy bergren Mr Mayor Mr berren is in person okay welcome you have three minutes thank you mayor mayor protm council members I called in after the last ceasefire and I signed up to.

Speak last week I was on the call so I don't know what happened but I couldn't get in I signed up to speak again today in relation to the ceasefire but it happens to be the anniversary of the 21st anniversary of the invasion of Iraq last night and today is the anniversary of the ground war in Iraq and I'm a sort of like a rogue and awall member of Iraq veterans against the war so I know a lot of white people and cool scarves with oranges that I can't afford showed up y'all heard him so I was just wondering if in my three minutes we could get like a a moment for the people of Iraq for the land of Iraq you know for the veterans in our community on the police department Department that are sanitation workers that are teachers that have never been able to feel the stuff they've been through in relation to our illegal Invasion and occupation of.

Iraq I witnessed a shooting in 2016 I told the mother of the son I saw shot that I was coming to speak and I asked if she wanted to say her son's name and the murder because two weeks ago even though the shooting was in 2016 he got released on bond said you want me to say his name she said yeah say the name of the murder is Eric Holland he's out I won't be surprised if there's other people getting hurt if you can help the family contact the da my my information's known I would appreciate it the Victor's name is Larry oono Larry Donell Owens people called him Larry O Carl council member is I got a minute but something you said really hit me about us not being heard by national politicians and so we were coming down to the local level and I I I appreciated that so much and and the ceasefire matter that I keep being concerned on is this ongoing assault on the leadership and Legacy of.

Mayor Elaine O'Neal and I thought it would end at the election and it didn't and it sounds like in this Administration or my job is to protect this Council sounds like I want to Center nccu when we lift up and tear down the very women who were lifted up and lift up as he see you I was going to say Dr Monique Hy hman was a casualty of that Siege but then I saw the news on Friday night and realized he's still a stronghold there's a stronghold to your right and across the D to your left and I really need you on this ceasefire thank you yeah next we have Mr.

Reigns. Good afternoon Mr Mayor mayor Williams and mayor protim and city council and staff my name is Donald Reigns I'm the president of the Durham Council of the blind I live at 109 Ser with drive here in Durham I just wanted to come and to say to the mayor and city council that the Durham Council of the Bland which I am the President of we are a consumer advocacy group that we advocate for persons who are blind and visually impaired I've been the president now for the Last 5 Years the Durham Council of the blind has been in existence Incorporated since 1986 and of our members we try to Advocate not just for the those who are members of the DM Council of the blind but for every resident in Durham who is res who is blind or visually impaired we are also a chapter of the North Carolina Council of the blind we are also affiliated with the American Council of the Blind and I just wanted the mayor.

And city council to know that we are there is a advocacy group for the blind in Durham and I hope one day sometime soon Mr Mayor that if I call your office we might be able to arrange to have you to speak to our group we used to meet in person down at the Lutheran chur on beanan Boulevard but since Co we meet on a conference call but sometime soon I would like to call and to invite you to be a speaker at the Durham councel Bland we are interested in what's what was going on in Durham and if anything that we can help or we can do as a group and as individuals to make our good city much better thank you for this time for allowing me to to speak thank you thank you Mr Reign and you don't have to call my office there's going to be someone by the name of Derek Stanfield that's going to meet you at the door and he's going to he's going to.

Get your information and schedule a time for me to come see you all this will be sooner than later all right thank you sir thank you thanks for being.

Here okay to our Port items all right you those all right we're going to go ahead and umit did we do the port items or presentation Port items Port items okay all right council member cook we have your first support item the bid. Report excellent so for those of you not looking at the agenda we're gonna discuss this is a bid report this is a and if anyone could correct me if I'm wrong on this but this is a a grouping of of bids that we've put out and those contractors that have answered those bids and there's information about how we selected those agencies on here these questions might be best for the City attorney but also might be answered by you and I just had a couple of questions about the statute that was cited so we're looking at statute 1431 129 for a lot of the exemptions that are listed under selections on this bid report and I read the statute and I was just hoping that maybe someone who's.

Read it in more detail could walk me through it a little bit it seems to govern construction or repairs that equal in excess of equal to or in excess of $500,000 goods and supplies equal to or in excess of $90,000 in the commentary on the document itself there was some conversation about $30,000 triggering these exceptions and I was wondering if we could talk about the amounts and where those numbers come from does that make sense that question makes sense ye yes Tim Flor Finance director and so I did notice those comments on the document and we were not aware that they were actually on the document that was posted there and so we can absolutely get back with you on all of those and and get you the correct information okay so under the statute it has the 500,000 and the 90,000 and and that is your understanding of what those are one moment city manager yes so so what you what you and and I see the attorney coming as well what you what.

You what you have referenced as part of the general statute is is correct it is the general statute limitations that you that you've put there it doesn't preclude us from bidding you know lower items and those items are you know if it's material apparatus and supplies we we do do that oh my question is not about the amount of the items specifically it's about because the reasoning given for selecting a lowest bidder or selecting something else is is couched in this statute but the statute doesn't govern for like most of the ones that that exemption was listed for and so I'm wondering why first of all why we have that explanation doesn't make sense to me because that statute doesn't apply is my question and I guess I'm I'm wondering why that's the comment section so the comment should should not have shouldn't have been there I'm I'm specifically now looking at the bid report when underneath each bid it says lowest bidder or it says other see comments and then in the comment section.

That statute is listed as a reason for not taking the lowest bidder but for many of these and and I'm happy to list through because I read through which ones are not covered by that statute but for many that are not covered by the statute the statute is given has the reason for the exemption and I don't understand why that is okay I'm going to let good afternoon Fred Lamar with the city attorney's office I will those are great questions council member cook the there is a layer of competitive bidding requirements including the one that you're referring to which is often times referred to as the formal bidding statute which is the 90,000 or above for purchases as well as the half a million or above for construction repair but even between 30,000 and those two numbers is the informal bidding requirement which is a statute that's a little bit sort of further I it's 143 135 or something like that but at any rate the the bid report is not.

Just addressing exemptions based on what either the formal statute allows for but also the city manager has her own policy with regard to competitive bidding in that range between 30 and the formal bidding and and if if the exemption is going to be made to the city manager's policy out of convenience the the staff will reference oh this is already exempt this procedure is exempt in the formal so it should count for for exemption from your policy as well sort of as an explanatory explanatory rationale because the city manager has her own policy that that dictates procurement in the amounts below the formal statute right and that would track with the statute is what you're saying yes the the idea I mean you are you are legally correct it's if if we're talking about amounts that are under the the general under the formal bidding you would need an exemption from them but as but the manager has her own policy of I don't care if it's in the informal range I.

Still want you to follow these procedures and so often times the the explanation is we're asking for an exemption even from your procedures city manager because it would otherwise be exempt even in the formal range so it's sort of a lesser included sort of explanation I don't know I I know that's kind of a complicated scenario but yeah and and then while you're up here sorry so and this also might be a good question for M manager but there were a few that quite a few actually that listed specifically they were under the amount but listed specifically the part about prior State contract yes I think that was I can't remember which part of the statute it was I think it was like f or maybe it was e e e something but when when we have the that exception that's it seems and my understanding is that it is like there's already some contract ongoing with the state with that specific bidder exactly and so we therefore utilize that because it's we.

Get some sort of discount or it's or we just follow the same terms that the state negotiated we get the same deal so we don't have to go out and get at least two bids we can say oh we're going with the state contract and and that's under the the formal bidding requirements is one of the exceptions to bidding generally and so that's where that comes from is that if it's a state contract and the vendor will agree to the same price and and conditions or better terms we can we can enter a contract with that vendor without competive biding okay thank you that that answered the next question that I had as well so I appreciate that let's see so I have two very specific questions this one actually might be better for you so under number 11 the exemption that's listed is E6 which is the there's only one source or there's a standardization issue I'm just pulling up which one number 11 is sorry that one was something about a.

Water pump I believe yeah this is the Water Management Department mechanical pumps and shaft seals which does not seem like a a standardization issue but it's a issue it's a Durham company so I was wondering if if that anybody had any more details on number 11 it sounds like the exception that they were citing I believe was the soul Source exception which means which gives an exception to having to again compe go out and ask for prices if you need to comply with those one of those criteria that's listed in the soul source exception compatibility I can't remember what the other two are standardization and some other I have the statue pulled up but so your question related to that is what I let's see yeah so the three are performance or Price competition for product are not available a needed product is available only from One Source you said that one or standardization or compatibility is their overriding consideration and I was just wondering cuz that was the only example of that.

One but it doesn't I mean I don't I don't I'm not an expert on water pumps but I just was curious about that one it does seem to come from a local Durham source so I was wondering if that was a we contracted with that specific company because they were local in Durham and then now we're only using the pumps seals that are probably that they only yeah and I don't have the details I didn't I don't go when I review the bid report I'm not reviewing the the background information typically but that's something that Finance would do okay thanks and I this is a very general question but I'm I'm I am just curious about why Dell is our sort of default for all of these we have Dell and three different ones Dell products and I'm just curious why that's our default so Dale you mean Dale the computers that are being I that's what I think from this report yeah so I don't I don't think the technology.

Director is here but you know for uniformity and you know performance we we usually tend to use you know one brand of of PC and it happens to be Dell typically when we do actually you know change or make large purchases we would put out some type of proposal for that so it hasn't always been Dell but the Dell brand of computer is what we're currently using so when you find people with PCS on their desk going to usually be beell the you know the the attachments or you know other kinds of plugs and all those kinds of things they they can be consistently used you know by multiple users of the equipment okay that was just it was just a random question I just saw it a lot come up my next question is about is there a state instate versus out of state issue when we're looking at bids does that come into play at all locality no not for purchase or construction repair work okay and then for the amounts that.

Are below the formal amount and also below the informal amount of 30,000 then are we able to look at other things when we're attracting those bids besides lowest bidder and besides ones that are Exempted sure I mean we can yeah that would be again something that would be covered by the city manager's policy how we and generally speaking the policy is that we still want to do competitive bidding just to ensure that you know we get the best price but there are exceptions the manager can make specific exceptions in that range okay great thank you that's all my questions thanks thank you council member cook we still with you item number six.

Okay yeah so I I pulled this one I I was surprised this wasn't a priority item I want to just pull it up really quickly we've been talking a lot about the budget and and again for those of you not looking at an agenda number item number six is our budget development guidelines and again feel free to correct me if I'm wrong up here staff but my understanding of this is that it is sort of a a brief summary of of the direction that we're headed in the budget that an accurate summ summary so I guess my questions here are that we've.

Added well what I want what I want to say is that I think everyone who's been paying attention to our bu budget Retreats and our most recent budget hearing that we had on Monday night understands sort of what we're looking at which is that there has been a question about Fair compensation and salaries particularly for those folks that are covered by City money and and and that in order to have enough money in the budget to cover those Fair salary increases that we are looking at at raising property taxes I just want to name that that I think everyone on this Council including myself has expressed that raising property tax is a big deal this isn't something that we take lightly and also payment of fair wages also a big deal I think for most of the folks sitting up here today so I just wanted to raise those issues specifically I wanted to ask about the parts that are under the recommend for salaries I apologize because I have 700.

Tabs open on my computer of course so to make sure I'm looking at the right. Thing so we have a section for Revenue we have a section for expenditures under the expenditure the following pay and benefit components will be proposed and I just want to I just want to raise these again we've been talking about these quite a lot and I feel like there has been conversation from folks on Council about not having data to back up some of these plans there's been a market study that's been done we don't have it as far as I am aware and just want to reiterate my concern about that because it's been something that we've been consistently raising since February this feels like a work session which feels like the time that we should be sort of working through these issues and and these budget Retreat similarly where they were publicly noticed and folks are able to listen in and we are able to get together as more than quorum to discuss.

Some of these pretty major changes that we're looking at making in our budget and I just want to raise that I'm concerned that we still don't have data to back up some of these proposed plans and then even when there's been push back from folks on Council we haven't seen any possible alternatives for these salary increases and and and specifically I will say too that some of the things that are listed under this pay and benefit components were not things that I think we talked about in great detail and some of the things that we did talk about are not on here specifically the July 1st date that we are talking about unifying everyone under under that as a as a a unified increase date and then one other thing that I want to raise I know I'm saying a lot and there's a lot to respond to I apologize but one other thing I want to raise is that I'm also hearing directly from city employees and this is I I'm going to say.

Fire specifically as people that I'm hearing directly from that they have put in front of the staff alternative options for increases and I haven't seen any of that either and I'm concerned when folks start coming to me directly because yeah I'm just I'm just not sure what the disconnect is there so I just want to flag all of those issues and and I would love to hear a response to some of. That okay want me me respond you can I was trying to hear the question exactly yeah I I'm not sure I heard exactly what the question is but I will try to respond in somewhat General so what we actually have listed here under the following pay and benefit components really as it relates to the percentages that are listed here those are the percentages that align currently with pay for performance increases so whenever we are moving in our budget to implement a pay for performance increase instead of not implementing that in a year it is a very.

Large cost for the budget to be put in the budget you have heard from employees for years years back when we did not Implement pay for performance increases that is what they are referring to the pay for performance increase which is a different part of pay than the market adjustment so when you see these very specific percentages in here they they specifically relate to pay for performance indicating that because we already are existing in a plan design we are not bringing forward a budget proposal that would change that plan design related to to the pay for performance component you see another sentence here that says additional structure and salary adjustments may be considered that is where we are referencing the market adjustment in its totality or some portion of it as well as structure adjustments that we discussed only the ones that we discussed during the budget Retreat which would be a change in the the the the the pay for performance for our general step plan from four to 5% it currently is.

4% and also bringing all pay for performance increases to a July date instead of on an anniversary date throughout the year so that part I can respond to but I'm not I'm not really sure that I heard any other clarifications but I would certainly you know try to if you were to be be more specific or Christina is is here as well sure so I me I I mean and I know we talked about this at the at the budget Retreat and although you know it's that's a long thing so I don't know if people have watched that but of course this is a this is a vague document this is It's only three pages and our budget will be far longer than that and far more specific and we do not have for example a an amount that we're talking about raising the taxes by but we do have numbers for the pay increases that have been proposed and again I know that they're not listed on here there's not a.

Lot of specifics necessarily but I'm just I'm wondering first of all when we're going to have access to the documents to the data on which we're basing those plans those changing plans on that to me feels really really important because again I don't take lightly raising the taxes and if we're going to do that I want to really make sure that the thing that we are looking at to raise the taxes is we have the data to back it up so that I understand what I'm doing and also that I can communicate with other people why I am raising their taxes if that is a decision that we do choose to make so I'm wondering about when we're going to get that data and I I guess my concern is that we have gone through these budget Retreats now we have this work session and I know we have a couple more coming up but I want to make sure that we have time to review that data and also if we have questions.

About how that data has been applied in terms of the the plans that have been put forth when we'll have an opportunity to raise that in a public Hearing in a public space where other people have access to those documents as well so so so I will respond to that so whenever we receive our our final we would never be able to implement anything if we did not have a detail report particularly in as it relates to a market adjustment it will be it will be a very detailed report we actually sent the sample of the last time we actually did this we put that as part of the package that we gave to you for your March 1 obviously it was it was a different time but that is the type of report that you can expect when the consultant logic is is finished with their work for us we we realize that we will have another public session another public meeting to go through to go through that with.

You when we do that you will have just like you have for every agenda item you will have it you know submitted to you it will be discussed during the work session in the public a as well as any other meetings that we talk about it or any of the material that we present for it will be on the budget department's website or part of the work session you know work work session agenda but all of those discussions will be will be Public public discussions and they will be before the May the May date when the manager's proposed budget you know is is submitted thank you yeah I mean I'm just I'm feeling like already in February it was feeling pressure of like we have to be making these decisions we need to be rolling on these and the fact that we still don't have the information in front of us is just really alarming to me because although when I think about it I know July feels like really far.

Away for me but it's not right and and I want to make sure that we have time not only to receive that data but also to propose any changes and that sort of thing and and so it's just a concern and I just want to raise it that that we don't have that data yet but I I appreciate that timeline so thank you I I would like to just you know make one last comment we knew that it would be when we worked on the budget this year we started on the first week of July after the budget adoption on June 20th with getting a consultant on board to help us with that work we knew that it would take us most of the Year leading up to the in to the budget adoption to get this work done it cannot be done fast it has to be has to be done in a very detailed and effective way with a lot of Staff work as well as the Consultants as well as.

The leaders here in the administration working on it so I I I really accept that it it feels like it is coming up and it is coming up but it has been being worked on you know since July and it's worked on every day and as soon as we have it and con vet it then we will we will present it to the council thank you I don't think I have any other questions May pro thank you Mr Mar and thank you my my colleagues and I was I was actually going to pull this item as well I normally pull the budget guidelines usually just usually to just commend staff and also to trumpet to our residents and constituents how important a milestone this is in the budgetary process and I stress budgetary process it is not the end of the budgetary process I I I want to thank council member cook and I I actually resonate with the sentiment of what she's saying because there are any number of.

Issues that have not gone my way and I feel some kind of way about after the vote is taken and what I have to do is differentiate between my disagreement with something and some kind of deficiency in the process often times it's not a deficiency in the process it just didn't go the way I wanted it to go and I want to I want to be careful how we characterize these budget guidelines these guidelines are a result of a deliberative process and a majority of the council thumbs up saying go forward with these budget guidelines being on the side that may have not wanted them to go forward does not necessarily mean that there's something deficient with the process do means didn't go that way our way that particular day I have a lot of experience with that with things you know not going the way I see them but I do also want to say that as far as not having information in front of us.

I I do not feel in any way ill prepared or that we don't have anything that we have not asked the staff for our budgetary process has gone on for years for decades in accordance with State Statute in accordance with best practices Financial practices by any number of financial agencies the the the presentation that the manager will eventually make has always been and will be I think fully documented fully vetted and fully transparent I think there may be some discussions we may want to have as policy makers about our philosophy of compensation and and you know our theories undering how we see perhaps how we even see fiscal management but the process as as I've experienced it almost the last seven years and as you know witnessing it and and observing it even before being on Council participating as an activist in this in this community the the budgetary process has not in my assessment been shrouded in in secrecy or or non-disclosure on the part of of Staff there often times I.

Didn't like the numbers I didn't like the way things were going but I have not I do not want to associate myself with any notion or any particular representation that there's something we don't have in front of us in order to make a decision I participated in this process for a number of years I've always had what I've needed to make the decision but the decision often times hasn't gone the way I wanted it to go and and I think that's an important distinction to make the the council had and you're right we had robust conversations during our budget guidelines we talked about the the percentages within the steps we talked about looking at other cities in terms of distinctions and and pay plans what we did not agree upon as a as a majority was to either delay or amend the guidelines process pending some more information had that crossed the four-person threshold we would have done that so I I I again associate myself what you're saying the importance of.

Having information in front of us what I do not however want to suggest is that these guidelines are are being foed upon a council by an Administration that's either implicitly or or explicitly not giving us something we asked for these guidelines have been forwarded because a majority of the council arriving at whatever they needed to arrive at to make the decision made their decision and they are before us and it is an important Milestone and I want to Echo what council member cook has said that I hope that our residents and constituents and neighbors are paying attention there is the potential for increase in tax absolutely the manager also said there's a potential to change structure as well and if they are taking in information from other municipalities other cities none of this is going to happen until we vote so we will have opportunity as well again to question and interrogate and probe and examine whatever the manager puts before us nothing is law until we.

Vote on it but but I have what I need in front of me as I have had from this staff for years it may not go the way I want it to but it will not be because the staff has not been responsive or diligent in their responsibilities and preparing us for voting on the budget thank you Mr Mayor thank you councilman Baker just wanted to briefly thank member cook as mayor proam also supported council member Cook's comments and I I also want to associate myself with some of the sentiment that council member cook expressed and of course some of it is in inherent to the timeline of when we will receive the report which is an understandable timeline but also causes some heartburn for myself and I think some my colleagues I would so are we thinking that we will likely be receiving the market study in early May does that sound like like the timeline there there is a very specific timeline that was provided to Logic for.

The different components of the study I don't have the exact date of when they expect to give us the final report but I can certainly get that and provide it okay thank you and I think there there are some there are there is some wording in here I think that gives me a little bit of comfort we had discussed during the during The Retreat just possibility of of exploring what different cities are doing in around pay steps and and this the spread and whether it should be based around a percentage or around around a number and what I'm seeing here is is still the the four to 5% but also additional structure and salary adjustments may be considered which to me allows some flexibility for continued discussion as we receive more information which we which we don't have yet so that's that's what I want to say thank you Council M ciero thank you my understanding from the budget retreat was that all of those kinds of questions that colleagues had were basically a.

Design process question which is not what council determined we were going to do last year and I raised that during the budget Retreat I said last year which I understand colleagues are new and they weren't part of that decision- making but the decision made at at the 2023 budget session Retreats was that we were going to include the cost of a consultant for a market study which is what we are currently doing what y'all are asking for is a a complete redesign of a process if you want that you didn't understand the process which is fine it takes everyone at least one budget cycle or two two budget Cycles to understand the process everybody goes through that experience put it in your budget requests next year as you would like a full redesign of the process because what's here is what is what the current pay structure is and that's why we're not seeing the market study numbers in here the things that we were a agreed to.

Was a a policy decision on current pay structures meaning the step plan because we have four four structures right police fire open range and the other step plan and those folks on the other step plan which is solid waste which is some Public Works all of those folks are going from four to 5% the reason we can do that is because the current plan which was adopted in 2018 can withhold that if we want to start looking at what other cities do which is what we did in 2018 2018 we went from only an open range I think fire was the only Department that was on a step plan to a step plan anything like that is broader and Beyond the scope of what was decided for this year and I understand that those decisions are prior to what current council is but that's that's the nature of the seat unfortunately you are part you know you you inherit you know previous Council decisions so my I think.

Ask for colleagues is around the we want to do you know an amount a median amount instead of this or that I think that that is not what we're going to be able to accomplish this year I think what we're going to be able to accomplish this year is are we going to accept what the market study says or are we not and then the nice thing about budget season it's every year every year there's a new budget every year you have to pass a balance budget every year it happens then you have to get it done by June 30th thank you that's thank you Mr Mayor I just want to Second the comments from my colleague council member cook about this the the budget process about the question about how we calculate annual raises and I think this is you know at least from my perspective this is not in any way sort of sour grapes about how the vote went down at the budget Retreat and it's not about following our processes it's.

More raising as a legitimate policy question about how we're making significant changes here significant policy with this new budget with these raises with the with the market adjustments and the and the raises we clearly as as council member cook said we take raising taxes very seriously it's something we take very seriously I think if we sort of like Zoom to the end of this process with a new budget if there is a tax increase all of us will be on the front lines of making the case to our community about why this is important so having the data sooner in the process rather than later it's critical to begin to begin understanding exactly what we're looking at right so I share the same concern it sounds like we're we're already we're building budgets around the Consultants recommendations so there there must be some report from the consultants if it's even if not fully completed so the sooner we can see that report I think the better we can can begin to.

Understand what is what is going on I will say that the final budget hearing is June 3D which is only a month but when we have to pass up budget so there's not a lot of time once we have that hearing between that hearing and the final budget so it's just a a plea for having that data in our hands as soon as possible so we can understand the procedure that's going on as we think about Market adjustments and so forth and again I will say as we talked about the budget Retreat I do think some kind of and I want to Second the comments also from from my colleague council member Baker some kind of creative way to think about making annual raises that's not simply a flat percentage increase is something I think a lot of folks in this Council are interested in if that's not part of the scope for this year's adjustments I do want to make that part of our discussions next year and really think.

About that very creatively so I want to second that idea as well thank you thank you just again go ahead council member Freeman thank you I I did want to just chime in and just hearken back to make sure that my colleagues who were here previously understand when you lodged the comment to workers city workers that you weren't you know here in the budget process that this is what is coming like this is where this is coming from and so in last year's process I think we were held to a conversation around where we would end up but if you don't have the data then you can't make the shifts you can't see where the shifts need to be be made and you don't have more information to make that decision and so there were three of us who felt like we had enough information to make the raises and there were four that did not to May Pro's point and we did not win the raises that.

We felt should be in place and so I want to make sure that we're not forgetting that this we don't want that same process to happen again and so the information beforehand is helpful I do think that the design conversation needs to happen now not later whether that's a budget request or not that's that's for future conversations but then also if we're going to make the changes so that we're not raising taxes so drastically that also has to be a part of this conversation and how our budget guidelines are formed because if it's not a flat percent and it's a actual number that DEC decision needs to happen before June 3rd and so however that comes about I think we we need to have more conversations more work sessions that are geared towards what it looks like because when I look at the budget guidelines and you see things like the 13.6% I'm not sure I know what that 13.6% is representative of but I do know that in previous budget cycles that.

That's always increased so went from 11 to 12 now it's 13 and so I understand that the process is the process but maybe the process is flawed and maybe we need need to figure out how to make those adjustments now so that we're not seeing at the end of the process where our city workers are at the butt of it I will also add I think to council member Cook's point I would love to have more put it this way in 2022 when I look back at the budget I can see on the budget guidelines what is in flux and it's kind of highlighted in red and maybe that's just a kind of a logistical thing that could happen is that those things that are still in flux like but there are some things that are kind of static that will remain in black and there's some things that are changeable that might be red that might be a little bit more in the direction of making sure that we're not like this budget.

Guideline is just it's a format and it's a process and it's not done yet so maybe that's something that could be done differently that's all thank you Pro him thank you Mr Mayor and I I thank my colleagues in the previous Council there were seven of us who wanted to give our employees raises there were four of us who wanted to get data first what's interesting is that there were three who were willing to do a massive raise without data and now it it's it's interesting how the tides have turned now we want data some of us were willing to make some of us some of us were willing to make $25 an hour the standard with no data which by definition would have occasioned a tax increase by we didn't know what because we we think that raising the salaries is a good idea we've already communicated to our residents and citizens that notwithstanding the data you deserve a raise so that that ship is sailed so so.

And as I recall we have had a preview of the data we're below the market rate we had a preview during our our gu budget guideline our budget Retreat that Durham is below the market rate by whatever the percentage was in paying folk so we have data so we know that we're behind already so I'm not sure if the question is how much behind or by what cities we already know we're behind we've already communicated Our intention to make our employees and our our our our employees whole we know that that's going to involve a a tax increase I do again want to say not again I do want to say that I'm not suggesting that it sour grapes the outcome of vote outcome of a vote I'm suggesting that these budget guidelines are what they are because we crossed a majority threshold listen I think shot spot is still a good idea but the vote didn't go my way so so should I Rel relitigate all of the reasons why I.

Think it was a great idea and how it saves lives the vote didn't go my way that doesn't nullify that I think it's a good idea I'm just simply saying that these guidelines did not just drop out of the sky because the staff ignored us and the staff is just going rogue on us we had a full-throated conversation we talked about our concerns about pay structure I respect that those are still concerns of yours and I I associate myself with what council member Caballero has said as well that the time will come for that but I do not want to create the impression that these guidelines are somehow being foed upon us that we as seven Grown Folk did not have an opportunity to to debate to to engage one another and that the threshold for these guidelines to come before us as they are right now was not crossed because it was crossed with all of the things we're saying today that we've already said taken into full consideration and we will have this.

Discussion I'm sure again but these are as they are because it crossed a four vote threshold thank you Mr mayor council member cook just briefly I I want to heing back with something that my colleague was just saying about meaningful and engaging debate and and this is precisely the reason that I pulled this item to begin with and the reason that I'm I'm raising the alarm when we talked about this at the budget Retreat the the thumbs up that we gave was to do further investigation we want to move forward on this we're not exactly sure how but we want to keep looking at it and I think that this document reflects exactly what we've asked and this is not I'm not this is not an attack on staff right this is exactly what you presented to us and we said yes we're interested to keep looking at this we believe that raising wages is important the problem is that we have not had an opportunity for Meaningful engagement or.

Debate around these topics because we don't have the data beforehand the the question when we keep pushing things down the line is that they get more solidified they get written in to the documents which is exactly what has been put in front of us but the problem is that we haven't had an opportunity to really have those meaningful debates around potentially other proposals for how to match the market rate we haven't seen that study which again I understand that there's some question about like whether we need that data in front of us I would argue that we absolutely do having the data is is crucial I also want to flag that it is a market study so when we're talking up here about raising wages I think we really need to be specific that we are talking about making our wages comparable with other municipalities that were selected in the study exactly what we asked for in that study and I wasn't here when that study was designed so I'm I'm not.

Going to say anything one way or another about that design of that study but we are looking at comparable Market wages what we are not looking at is what is the value that our city employees are bringing to this city what is the number that we assign to your contributions that's not what the study says right and so this is data that we need in front of us and I also o think that it's important to raise other issues including like what do we know about Durham in terms of like what is a real living wage here right we have a method of calculating that and and you heard raised by many many folks in in the community that that method might not be working right right and so that's something we can address moving forward and I think that it's on a lot of our minds to address moving forward I work in eviction defense I know what it looks like to make 19 $ an hour and try.

And live in a rental apartment in Durham it's next to Impossible I mean it that is to me that that number is not right I watch it every day I watch people that make that amount of money that cannot afford to house their children so that is something that we have to talk about too right and there's so many things that we need to talk about and I just want to make sure that we are having the space where we are all together where we are publicly noticed where we are given the information ahead of time where we can have those meaningful discussions so that when we make these changes which I would argue is is one of if not our largest responsibility as a council to pass a budget that we've had the opportunity to discuss and people can listen and understand where we're coming from when we make those decisions and we understand where we're coming from when we make those decisions and we've had an opportunity to hear each other out so.

That's all I want to say this is not a question of anyone doing anything wrong I just want to make sure that we're doing the best job that we can possibly up here I'm feeling time crunched it sounds like everyone is feeling a little time crunched it sounds like we've got deadlines and we and we knew we were going to be a little bit time crunched and that's just sort of how the function is because we have fiscal years and we have deadlines and we have to pass a balanced budget and I understand all of those things but I just want to raise that if we're really going to have meaningful discussions we have to have space to do it and we have to have the information ahead of time and so if that looks like maybe changing our process next year then something maybe we need to talk about but I respect all of you and I appreciate everyone's comments so thank you thank you I would like to actually.

Ask council member cook which bullet point are you asking that you would like to have further discussion on because a lot of this stuff is just kind of we set aside a half penny for parks that is a policy that is in place the tax rate for downtown for the bid we can have a discussion around that the transit operating fund which one are you wanting to have a conversation on because when you say I want to have meaningful conversations all of these have different like the solid waste fund part of that is not in the op is not in the general fund it's in a Enterprise fund which is not the same source of money so when you're looking at these bulleted things non-recurring funds will not be you know directed towards reoccuring reoccurring uses that's essentially saying we don't use fund balance for operations so out of the bullets which ones because if you're going to have the conversation there needs to be specificity not just I have feelings and I'm concerned concerned.

About a process which is fine but this is finance and this is budget and there's numbers Associated and if staff if there's concerns then I would rather know exactly which ones and what percentages you're interested in having conversations on so that they can get actual direction thank you answer yeah I mean that that's a great question so I mean I think there's several things on here like we talked about before where there is and so very vague language again this is the point of this document but the bullet point under expenditures the very first one we're talking about Innovative and high performing organization goals to recruit retain Advance a diverse and engaged Workforce at the end therefore we will continue to consider employee compensation adjustments as a priority that's one right and and this is the following will be proposed but like council member baker said there there is left open in this language conversations around other adjustments that may be needed right and I think that those are pieces that I would like.

To have more meaningful conversation around you would like to have a conversation which we actually did do a strategic plan refresh at the budget Retreat that was part of our agenda that is part of the Strategic plan it's a goal so what I'm hearing is that that's actually not a budget consideration you want to have a conversation around the Strategic goal of innovative and high performing Organization no I'm sorry I refering language at the top of the memo and at the top of the memo that language is tied to our strategic plan it is not tied to a budgetary item and so my question is if that is the conversation that you want to have a like that if that's the item you want to have a discussion about we did have a discussion about that that was the Strategic plan refresh which we had at the budget Retreat so that would have been the opportunity to raise concerns around that goal I apologize if I wasn't clear but the.

Actual numbers that we are looking at and we and we did have a proposal for an increase in salaries that number was presented to us it was a maximum increase number but we don't have details around that so that that is a topic that I would like to further talk about and I know that we talked about it already so you're saying I'm sorry I just want so the what I'm hearing and correct me if I'm wrong is that you would like to have a conversation specifically around the first bullet point which is the current tax rate for the general fund of 31 31.5 cents per assessed per 100 cess value may be increased to cover the pay study Market adjustment and other pay policy considerations that is the language that I think and this is me just Cur it's curiosity because the market study the reason it's increased to cover the pay study we don't have a number for that that's why the language is vague that's what we're.

Having a conversation about you don't have the full data which you've referenced which I think everyone's concerned about so it seems that you would like more clarity on that specific budget or that specific bullet point and I think the answer is the reason why the language is vague is we don't have an actual dollar amount which is why we can't list it but if I inter because provided from it's it's not it's not the dollar amount only it's also it's also that the fact that we had the whole conversation about whether it was flat or not and so if we don't get those numbers to even look at whether or not it's comparable how do you know whether to make that decision or not my understanding is if you go to the last page page three of three the following pay and benefit components will be proposed that would have been the pay for perform performance open range plan and step plan increases for General employees that is where we would have.

Seen that change from four to 5% and that is included in this the reason that they're able to include that is because that is a clear specific policy that they can they can do the the math with the like they have the number for that the reason that it's not included on page one under the first bullet point the current tax rate Etc is because we don't actually have the full data from the market study so staff had to leave that vague I would love some clarification from staff if I am interpreting that correctly well if I could just say for 2022 we did spell out pay adjustments would be considered for General employees in a specific way and that is not being done for this budget guideline and whether we do that or not is not it doesn't mean that you have to nail down the number but it does say that you have options it does show you what the options are those options as council member cook mentioned are not included.

In this budget guideline so we did all agree to move forward with where we are but as she stated we did ask for more data and that data whether it's whether it's the additional whether it's flat number or flat percent those are different and that is not included okay Madam manager so I think in the past two budget years when we did not have a market study in play we we anticipated based on wage growth some amount of percentage that we were going to include as an adjustment based on market and it was just across the board so that was in the guidelines because it was an estimate and it was not based on actual Market studies of the jobs and positions that we have here so yes that was included as you mentioned and that amount was a 2% across the board increase in addition to these numbers that you see that are represented by salary you know pay for performance or step increases so we were able to be.

More clear because we didn't have a market study going on we have a market study going on and we anticipate proposing to include the results of that study we don't actually have it in a percentage and it's not the same percentage for all positions because all all of the four pay plans are not the same distance above you know above or below the market or around the market so it will be more tailored but less we have less of an ability to put a percentage here because we did have percentages by pay plan and we presented that during the budget Workshop but we did not put it we did not put it here you will remember there was a number percentage that we were below the market for each one of the each one of the pay plans and that was that was.

Presented well I just if I just had one last thing I just I hope what my colleague here said I think in part is that we're making big decisions this is the the budget is one of the big decisions we make every year right and so I hope part of our conversations and work sessions can be about these these important policy decisions and and and policy choices right so I think partly I I think correct me I'm wrong council member cook but you're trying to just trying to raise this as an issue something that we need to have continuing discussion about this is an important decision we make and so I hope we can continue to have robust discussions at our work sessions about this that's I'm going to get us moving on if there are any no other comments I yeah and I thank you Mr May and I I concur on moving forward and I wna I want to fully assure council member R and I appreciate his his.

Council that that we we are particular that have been here are fully aware of of how huge a decision the budget is it's the most important thing we do and some of us have done a few of them but I I also want to be be clear that a lot of what we're there's nothing wrong with our budgetary process and and if and I'm not saying anybody saying it but this this process has has served us well for a number of years and and I want to I just want to call what I think part of this is we have some philosophical standings and beliefs about compensation we have some some some beliefs and some ideological stances which are fine about how we should pay our Workforce which is fine and and I want I want to be careful that that discussion does not somehow get conflated with well because I have these views that that there's something about the process a number of times a couple of my colleagues have invoked we don't have.

The information in front of us I'm not part of that Wii I I know where we are in the process the manager has not brought her report yet and that when she brings the full report and recommendation that will put us in a POS a position to have a more full-throated vetted conversation but as far as the market study I we've seen the headlines we're behind the Market we already know that we we've seen the numbers and we saw percentages so we've got the headlines and the readers dig version of the of the market study so there's not going to be any surprises there the question is do we want to have four to 5% across the border or when you get I think the number I heard was $90,000 or whatever then do you get a smaller raise in everybody else and then there were questions on the other side well if you started off the people who are making 990 Grand now may have started at.

28 or 30 and then they work their way up to that have they now hit the mark where they're affluent and I mean those are conversations that are apart from this particular process which is working fine the budget guidelines have have been produced again everything that that we've said today we said during the budget guideline process no one was hindered no one was prevented from presenting their views and these guidelines have come to us with no Sur prises they're exactly what we said they were going to be during the during the process the discussions we're having now are not really gerain to the guidelines they're gerain to our philosophical positions on compensation and that conversation is coming obviously it's coming and we welcome it thank you Mr mayor council member Freeman thank you I I think I what I would like to see is if there is cuz I don't feel like it's included in the market study where women sit are we at 70 Cent on dollar 65 Cent.

On a dollar 60 Cent on a dollar like that is the level of detail of data that the HR should be able to provide in some way shape or form that we have not looked at in the budget cycle and I think that that's what when we talk about pay Equity or when we talk about income inequality those are policies and those are policy decisions that are made by this Council and if we're going to be serious about what that looks like for our budgets as we move forward then we're going to need more data and that data is not just a market study it is it is going to be the information that our HR Human Resources has on who gets paid what where and by all different ranges so that you can see where we can have impact if if there is an opportunity to have a flat number whether that's 5,000 20,000 like there's a difference and those things I mean I feel like Finance should be able to provide some basic.

Information around what that would look like so that's HR and that's Finance at the very least should be able to give us some followup on the requests or the conversation that we did have at budget Retreat because there were at least three or four of us who did have questions about what that would look like and I'm not sure why we're stuck on you know this is the process and that's it but I do think that we need to get unstuck and figure out how to make sure that we're doing the work to make sure our policy around pay equity and income inequality is addressed for our staff at the very least and so if those are just I'm just trying to give tangible like recourse so that we can move forward for finance and HR to be able to provide some numbers and then just to look at it it doesn't mean we make a decision because I mean if you don't have the numbers you can't say what it.

Will be and so I hear you when you say you didn't have the numbers last year and you didn't want to make a decision I know there's three of you who did who didn't want to make a decision I don't want you to get to the end of this process this time and say the same thing I don't have those numbers we want you to have more numbers I want you to have more numbers I want you to have as many numbers as you need so that we can make sure that we're doing the policy work to make sure that our work are paid what they need to be paid whether it's in comparison to other cities or acknowledging that the level of inequality based on on on inflation we we can do this it's not a it's not a either or I think it's it's both these guidelines can sit in place but there need to be some really clear red highlighted areas that may change versus those things that will stay the.

Same because I do think the 31% will change the 31.5 5% will change I do think that the the 5% I think. The pay plan because I I hear what the city manager saying when she said we didn't have the market study to make the we didn't have the market study so you made the estimations we're not making estimations we're using our Market study to make the biggest impact as we move forward so that we're taking into account the inflation we're taking into account that our fire department is underpaid or that our Solid Waste is over like whatever it is we just need to have some more numbers so that we can see it that's all thank you all right I'll share a few comments and then we're going to move on I there I for me it's I'm a bit more fundamental about it and just the overuse of subjective language in a governmental body there's a there was a political campaign about payout workers are their fair share the word fair is.

Very subjective and we are a government and what we want to do is we want to make sure we're paying good wages which is also subjective but we have to Define that based on what we can like legitimately and realistically do and if I just recall back last year it was the night of passing the budget that we wanted to initially put $18 million into the budget for raises because of who came in the room and actually spoke at that time and that's why it comments of you got to get in the process earlier and that was actually fire so fire got into conversation the next day you know and part of all of the discussion last year was you know what we need to do a market study we we need to do a market study we need to actually look and see where we are in the market and so that's what we budgeted for so government doesn't move as fast as we like and it doesn't move as fast as we.

Feel like it should just like we don't have the data we're asking for today but it is coming I don't want to project that oh where's the data you know it's like it's hiding somewhere because it started and none of you all actually saying that now I'm glad we talked about it a bit more but that's how it was coming off initially it's like staff where's the data you hiding you're keeping it from so it is coming and it takes time that's the worst thing about bureaucracies they take forever to get things done and it is a very distasteful thing and folks get frustrated with it I.E for example Transportation you know we're planning for 2050 and 2070 some people won't even be alive then but that's just how government works and that's something that I hope we can change about government you know part of getting this information is last year we said we need a market study so we are now carrying carrying that out and whatever the time frame was provided.

For us to get that information back is what we gave the consultant now it would feel better if we had it earlier so we can look at more information but I'm a policy maker I don't do the day-to-day operations and staff I trust that you all are doing your job to get that information for us and I trust that when you get it it's going to be done right rather than fast and it's going to be on me to put you know put put the time in to actually study what I'm looking at so that I can make the best sound decision when it's time for me to do it we have several other budget meetings to come before the end of the year but I think a lot of this is we just you know it I I'll speak for myself it took me time to understand how government works and I was appreciative of that my first year I didn't put anything in the budget as a Quest because I needed to understand.

What the heck I was doing what what was going on here how does this work and then the next year I understood how it works how it worked and I was able to actually be pretty effective at it I think that we're pushing the envelope here we're we're really we we we're we're being able to utilize policy to to really respond to process to get some of our philosophy in it and that's what I appreciate about this specifically council member cook some of your comments during the actual budget Retreat and that's the that's the having fresh eyes I was the same way on noos like what the heck are they talking about so you ask a lot of questions so I I I don't want anyone to feel stifled or feel like you know we can't have this conversation this is good but I also want to make sure we're doing our part to understand what we're actually doing how this works I will say you know I don't.

Want to project also to the public that the city of Durham just treats their employees horribly because that's not the case either that's that's not the case and and I I spent some time looking at wages and looking at you know just you know the whole $25 model and I started realizing a lot of the loudest voices make well over $25 you know so it's two ways of looking at that it's like I appreciate them speaking for other people and that's that's why we have a market study to get them up to Market and then the other side of it is we just I mean we're not a corporation now as a private citizen one thing that that I have to look at as well is okay so when we do make everybody at said standard minimum wage what happens everywhere else because nothing is going to keep their things aren't going to inflation is not inflation is just not going to go and disappear out of Charity or of good.

Out of just being nice you know so I want us to like think about this conversation holistically and what I took from this entire discussion was when we get this data it'll give us enough information to look at to make a really good decision because as one of you all stated we're going to be on the front lines making a case for why we while we are going to raise taxes or keep them to same or whatever we're going to do but I want to be really careful about people people just you know you get a few groups together or you put a few logos on paper and it's like oh now the city of Duran pay their employees horribly and we need to pay our workers their fair share and next thing you know we're now making policy based on a few loud voices and we haven't even looked at data so I'm glad that we're finally talking about data finally but our job is policy makers is to be fiscally responsible fiscally responsible.

And that means we have to operate on data we're not a corporation that's selling a good that's making money or selling a product that's making money we generate Revenue by way of taxes we get taxes because people pay them who are in homes or property taxes with their cars or Vehicles so as we're thinking about how we generate the revenue we also have to think about how our policy decisions impact that as well because money isn't going to grow on trees that's why we have to pass a balanced budget so when we're trying to incorporate our philosophies we have to think about our realities as well and that's government so I appreciated this really rich debate and conversation on policy and yeah we're going to go ahead and move on council member RIS you pulled number nine all right on you thank you Mr Mayor this will be I'm sure much briefer thank you yeah so I just had a quick question thank you Mr Johnson my only question just reading this I just.

Want to confirm so the city will be increasing its loan amount by a total of 3.6 million correct to cover the Gap since the the developer did not receive the 9% litec tax credits right Reginal Johnson director Community Development Department yes we're increasing it for a total of five million to be a total of five million and so my only question is in the as I read this the background here it talked about meeting with a county the county also identifying the ability to use arpa funds for housing so is the county participating in this or is this not is that is that just for reference I mean are we is the county matching this or is this all City great great question council member so one of the things that the city and the the county has joint have jointly used arpa funds this county has actually given arpa funds to the city and to the tune of 13 and half million to match our 13.5 million and we've.

Assigned that $27 million to a range of projects we the community the city of Durham this is one of those projects gotcha perfect thanks that was good thank you oh I would just say that I would just just add in an appreciation because I think that was the work of our previous mayor and chair of the County Board of Commissioners to make sure that the projects that were falling by the wayside didn't fall by the wayside and so making sure that instead of just doing the four I think was how many eight so so if we could get all of those projects moving I mean they're at 30 608 and 30 and 60% area medium income for affordability I think that's phenomenal and I want to appreciate our previous mayor and County chair for pulling that together I think that was great work the 27 million does help thank you council member Baker yeah and this is a a question that I ask a lot but I see that the period of.

Affordability is 30 years it is there a barrier to to just making it permanent affordability so that we don't we're not losing affordable housing in the future so thank you for that question council member so a little bit of history on where the the years affordability comes from when we got into this business many years ago we use followed the home guidelines and then when we start getting into the tax credit business low-income housing tax credits which we we are now we follow th those guidelines that is is an open question that we're willing to explore with developers but it gets into the performers gets into the financing and but we are willing to open that discussion about long it has implications financial implications and whether developers will be willing to do that and whether it be appealing for us is something that we have to discuss okay thank you yeah that's that's important to to me is is increasing the stock of permanently affordable housing to the extent of that's possible thank you you're.

Welcome mine mine is I echo my council member Baker's suggestions I also had in perpetuity question mark on my notes and and I think that that's a dream a lot of us have my question is actually about the arpa funding so I'm not sure if you're you might have that information but do we have I know we've got quite a bit of arpa funding that is left over and and that we're trying to all not quite a bit but there is some that we're trying to allocate no there's none I thought that we talked about at the budget meeting that there was a little bit left over in the 1 million yeah there was a okay so you want to come so we did we did speak about there being about 1.2 million I believe is the number that is unallocated of all of the $52 million that we that that we received in arpa where you know as we move forward we you know we we may have to reallocate some if the.

Partners that we are working with you know do not expand all of that funding but the original allocation is down to what you saw during that during that presentation okay I guess my question with this was that it sounded like that this was there was earmarked on the in case that they didn't get the lhtc designation which they did not then we had ear marked money from arpa to supplement so that they could secure that loan and I'm just wondering if that is if there is other ear marks that are included in that in our arpa calculations I'm just curious about that because I'm just wondering how those numbers work so I'm not quite sure I heard exactly what the question was but the whenever the council allocates the arpa funding we go back and negotiate the scope of work and the contract cont and the contract comes forward even this item that you're looking at right now the funds are first allocated and then the final amount comes back again before.

You but I'm not I'm I'm not really connecting yeah let me clarify my question sorry so we are now spending more on this project than we originally were though that was understood that that might happen if they failed to get the lihtc designation and they did and we understand that that's hard to get so my question is whether or not we have other projects in which we have potential earmarks for arpa funding and how we how we calculated when we were talking about how much arpa we had spent or how much we had left over like where this sort of potential earmarked money what pot that went in like where it was calculated does that question make sense on this particular item I'm guess I'm asking if there are other items also that are that were similar and that there was a potential for more expenditure than yeah so so I might I might answer that when we actually sought the partnership with Durham County and we we felt like we had.

10 million and they had 10 million was at the beginning so we had 20 million by the time we actually got to the point of executing those contracts we were having deficit in some of the other affordable housing projects the county agreed if we would allocate an additional 3.5 then they would allocate it so that is where the number is coming from because as we are making decisions and going back and doing contract negotiations things are going on during that time and things are changing during that time but in this particular I think it was May when when we KN when we discovered that this project was not going to get a 9% and by the time we were working with the county to get additional funding we knew that this project would very likely need additional funding because it was it didn't get the 9% when the nor North Carolina Housing Finance Agency made those decisions okay so this money we didn't know that we were going to we.

Hadn't earmarked it to potentially sub supplement we then supplemented after the I I must have misunderstood that cuz I thought that it was already earmarked in case they didn't get the lihtc designation but it sounds like that's not what happened we just supplemented it after they did not get it I'll Reginal be more specific with that because I'm not get so this this is what I would say and I appreciate your question and I understand it so this was fluid as we were developing this and working with the county and indeed in having discussions with this project between the developer between Community Development and the rest of our funds as well as our conversation with the County we initially started with 20 million we knew as we were proposing this and we would do there was going to be risk there's always risk and up and so we can anticipate it or left room because there were also cost increases cost escalations to be prepared in case something like this happened well this.

One did and so but we were prepared for it so that's how we worked in the community on the Community Development portion I can't speak to the other part of Opera but in terms of us m because of the developers because of the cost escalations because of the risk we had to leave some flexibility there which we did and we were able to accommodate it and we anticipated it so this is not anything that's unexpected right totally so that I think that you answer part of my question and and I guess the other part was that are there other projects that wherein we might also need to supplement arpa funds for is this like something that I mean obviously I know that we can't always predict the exact outcomes of things and like you said you know it's like lhtc designation is like you either get it or you don't but I'm just wondering like are there other projects where that potential exists and then also when we when we're looking at like that one.

Mill that we have left over from arpa like it didn't include this money obviously so this we already knew by this by the time that you had your meet we had the meeting on March the 1st we already knew about we already knew about this right so what you saw was a snapshot that day and most of our contracts are we're executing them at the approved amount the housing projects are different a little bit different and we we don't we would not have any additional unallocated funding to allocate to anything else until something were to happen like someone were to return their funding because they decide that they can't do the scope of work or or something like that we call we would call that a reallocation but at this time we we don't have that okay great I was I was curious thank you yeah go ahead thanks so much and I thank my colleague and director Johnson good to see you I I do think this is a good opportunity to kind of.

Maybe just do a little commercial for long-term or permanent affordability I've heard a couple of my colleagues give voice to something that we're all concerned about and obviously our ability as a municipal government to compel Eternal affordability or even when we're getting money from the federal government is is is limited but a way we can assure permanent affordability spending our own money and using our own land so I I just want to put a commercial out there for you know if we look through our portfolio of what we own you look at Willard Street permanently because it's our money it's our land we have the opportunity to do that at 505 West Chapel Hill Street those units will be permanently affordable so anytime when we're looking to compel a private developer or maybe use money that we're getting from the fed or anywhere else in partnership with someone doing affordable housing and we raised concerns about the term of affordability asterisk we can always use our own land and use our own money.

And particularly in our our the way our Market econom is configured here in this part of the world we we can always put our money where our mouth is to council member Cook's Point as well you know we we will you know we'll write a check for what we think is important I mean we we we stabilize Durham Housing Authority partner with them when we had the crisis at McDougle Terrace we did something with our friends at at housing for New Hope so from time to time you know it's a general fund it may it may not be allocated but of course as a council we we can we can put our money where our mouths are where our City's heart is but I do want to just put a little plug in for permanent affordability the most powerful weapon or tool at our disposal now is our own land and our own money to make it permanent thank you Mr Mayor Mr Mayor yes please just a note to.

Plug also our City's website around the American Rescue plan I want to say it's really phenomenal as a resource so that people can see the project we've done the last report I think was July of 2023 I'm sure there'll be one for July of 2024 and you can see very specifically all of the different projects how many have not how many have been allocated and what dollar amount you know it's been allocated too and so I think that that's helpful for folks in the public to know to know and to see for themselves I will say that the website shows the meetings and the decisions and the reports and each and every every one of the allocated items is listed there and I just want to make sure I plug that for the general public thank you thank you all right at this time we're going to go to number 17 and then come back to number 11 council member cook is not on the Das so council member Baker on.

You sure just just a couple just a couple quick questions here first of all can you just the about the nine that slightly more than $9 million from the county can you just remind us what the city is putting in that's question number one and then question number two can you just remind us of of sort of the the impetus and what kicked off the the need for this planning project thank you good afternoon mayor Williams mayor protim Middleton members of the council my name is Raven McLaren I work in public works stormw Water Division I would like to say $9 million is not what the county is contributing the it is yeah $910,000 89551 the city is contributing and we do not have a signed contract and so but the city is planning to contribute $2 million $22,000 74882 cents the reasoning behind the southeast DM water side Improvement plan is to go out into the community we're focusing on Lick Creek Brier Creek and sturup iron Creek and do an in-depth.

Water quality study to identify areas where we can build storm water control measures and do stream Restorations to try to improve the water quality for that watershed area thank you yeah it's kind of funny I was looking at item 18 which has the nine M can so so just curious what spurred it what's what kicked this off we have as a city we have a mpds permit a national pollution elimination systems discharge permit which requires us to do studies and planning and so that is a motivation for us we're also motivated in improving water quality we recognize that there as an urban stream system there are impairments and so we want to study that and come up with ideas and solutions to put in place to improve the water quality for the community so okay yeah thank you I just I just wanted to ask some of the questions this is obviously an area that's that's become a major concern and and has been very prominent when we talk about rezoning.

Cases and the the amount of growth that's been taking place out there nonprofits and scientists that have that have raised the alarm bells and concerns with continued growth and development out there and and and it hurts a little bit to to see when when our streams are impaired because of large amounts of of private and very profitable development that's been taking place that following the the profitability and and the development that's going to large corporations the the public sector has to come and and clean up clean up the streams and clean up the mess so I just wanted to just wanted to raise that thank you that's from Baker you referring to profitable development is it supposed to be nonprofit development like I you say that a lot I just want to get clarification so I can get better understanding what is it what type of development is it supposed to be if profitable development yeah okay so when we when we are identifying or characterizing it as Char profitable.

Development is that an issue or is it it's profit motivated and it's profit maximizing so so what we have are our large corporate developers who are trying to maximize the amount that they are profiting off of the land and in maximizing that development they are cutting corners and allowing some of their development to impair streams and and some of the public goods there are externalities that are coming coming out of the development that they are are carrying out in places like Southeast Durham which then impair the streams which then compel us to to spend public dollars in in cleaning up some of the some of the mess that's made all right can we prove that's the case can we can we what can we prove that's the case and what I'm I just want to be careful with the language that we project up here cuz we are the government so I don't want people to think that and and I'm not saying your wrong I just we use a lot of loose.

Subjective language and I want to be careful with people saying that you know oh you know Durham is saying that they are you know doing XYZ to Residents without being able to like put the facts behind it so it may be happening I just want if it is happening then let's show it and let's let's identify that you know but I I and I think we have and I'm I'm not calling anyone out but there are a couple lawsuits out there specifically against certain Developers again I'm not going to not going to say those out loud but the southern environmental law Center is is active in in this area so okay yeah thank you I actually just want to note in the memo that the identified areas are quite are Beyond just Li Lick Creek that is an area that has been mentioned a lot but it's also including strip iron Creek and Brier Creek and in fact the memo States Brier Creek has a NC Department of Health and Human Services fish.

Consumption advisor Downstream of Durham in Wake County and that is not a creek that actually we have heard a lot about Brier Creek and I'm so I'm just naming that that this study is not just the the Creek area that is named during public hearings often it is an entire area that H has been an Agricultural Center for a long time and as we all know it's actually agricultural runoff that often causes the most pollution in our waterways and so just naming that thank you I appreciate it and I and I'm glad that we are taking the initiative to do this this and make this investment with this c local agreement but I I I also know the reality that we have to we we do have to develop as well so it's it's that's why I engage a lot with our environmental folks as well as El Creek folks I want to make sure that we are all at the table and you know just not being adversarial about it so.

Thank you so much and thanks council member Baker for pulling this question a few more questions go ahead sorry to bring you back up I had made a couple notes and so and I'm having trouble finding them but I have seven again a million tabs open on my screen I I had noted down that this put that this had there was a call for citizen input in these areas is that did I write that down in the appropriate category did y'all have hav't ask for that we are doing an extensive public Outreach so we actually have a dedicated consultant who will be doing just an equitable job of going around and making sure that the community members voices are heard so we will be doing radio spots we'll be doing videos we have a pretty robust public Outreach okay and then that and you said that's something that we're Consulting to do y the consultant it's will be doing that okay and and do we have are we using consultants for other parts of.

This as well because I think I wrote down that there was some that we were maybe going to be getting some assistance with the actual testing is that is that right correct can you talk a little bit more about that yep we are proposing signing a contract with a consultant to do engineering studies they'll be helping with field work data putting data into our system system and helping out with public Outreach so they'll be involved throughout the development of the water Improvement plan okay thank you yeah I mean I I do want to Echo council member Baker's statements on this it is alarming to see and and I I fully understand what council member Caballero is talking about it and mayor Williams who that obviously we are responsible for the health of our streams and I think that's super important it is alarming to see this particular one come up already as something that is needing a a significant investment as we have been hearing alarm from the community.

In that area and and like I said I actually went to liit Creek last week and yeah I mean everything is dead and it's it's hard to see so I just I understand everyone's comments I'm not going to say one way or the other but I just I think it's important that we recognize that there are expenditures that will have to come from from taxpayers potentially around these issues of environmental sustainability so I appreciate everyone's comments thanks thank you Madam Clerk I'm assuming the gavl for a moment council member Freeman think you want I was just going to say Council memb but I just wanted to just ask the question around the Watershed manage or the Watershed Improvement plans is that specific specific to the water itself or the sediment in the water so with a watershed Improvement plan a watershed is the entire land area that the water touches to run into the creek and so we'll we'll be looking at all of that area not just the creek.

Itself to put in some measures to catch and treat different not just sediment but there are other things that we're looking at before it gets into the creek and and manag and is 2.9 what you said 2.2 2 plus the 900 so 4.1 million is that enough to cover all of that that's what we've been quoted okay and I just it just was alarming I appreciate counil RAB are bringing in Brian Creek just know you cannot eat the fish in that water and at least they have fish in the water and so I think for liit Creek and some of the others it's moving in the direction where Brier Creek will be where liit Creek is if we don't get a hold on some of the development that's occurring and the way that it's occurring across our County so thank you council member RIS thank you council member yeah just one last comment thanks for the presentation and I appreciate the conversation about our watershed this is really critical for.

Durham's Health health of of our environment I am the council's representative to the upper noose River Basin Association which is I think 16 mun IP alties is that correct that are all touch on the the The Falls L Basin the executive director I think I think Michelle will for yeah I think will'll be bring bringing to council a recommendation to have Forest westall who's the executive director of unba come to present to us on this issue of these new rules for Falls Lake that we're trying to get the general assembly to approve this kind of sort of rewriting of the rules of how we monitor the health of Falls Lake so I think that'll be a really important conversation for the whole Council to hear about that whole process obviously these these lakes and Creeks are critical to our our our thank you council member I did just want to take a moment I do I do want to associate myself with the mayor's comments particularly about what what we.

Project from the day as elected of the city first of all we have scientists as well that have have spoken to us about mitigation effort and precisely what tomato soup is when it's more pronounced at times than when it's not not and things we can do to mitigate the effects of tomato soup I I do want to it's important I I think that no no agency or or scientific agency or enforcement agency has declar that everything is dead in any of our creeks and rivers that no one no scientists no organization that has enforcement Authority or the DEQ has has said that I also do want to say that the the we are not as currently you know lawsuits are allegations they don't they're not proven this is the most litigious Society on the face of the planet we'll sue we can sue a ham sandwich andite a ham sandwich and Sue anybody in America but as of now I think it's important to say that no enforcement agency has found Durham in.

Violation of A Clean Water Act no one is is has dinged us for anything we're actually celebrated for having some of the most stringent Environmental Protection in our state So currently no not withstanding lawsuits no enforcement agency has has dinged us on that I think that's important to say with respect to developers cutting Corners that is a characterization that I think we ought to put an asteris next to we have a Udo we have enforcement oversight ability I'm certainly not actively voting for developments where developers are are demonst ly cutting corners or just blatantly ignoring our Udo now we can have honest discussions about whether or not we feel the ud go Gres far far enough and if the law is is stringent enough absolutely a fair fair debate but the suggestion that under our watch or or that they're just cutting corners wanly or blatantly I think is a characterization we need to be careful about and as far as profitability I I would just say.

Everything we use in the city is sold to us by a company seeking profit the vehicle our fire trucks our police cars all all of the contracts we have are for-profit Corporation these microphones we're speaking on the clickers were sold to us by companies seeking a profit so I do also want to associate my mayor associate myself with the mayor's caution about that as well nobody's given this city anything for free no one we buy everything from companies that are operating under a profit model our job is to make sure that as they seek profit they don't cut Corners whether it's the cars they sell us or the computers they sell us or or the buildings they build and and I want to just lean in and and further commit and further declare our commitment to making sure that the the businesses that we engage in whether you're building buildings or selling us paper clips do so in a way that that is Honorable above board in full.

Compliance with the law and does not put us in any way in harm as a city thank you the mayor his honor is back on the podium I'm going to yield back to the mayor thank you all right and council member cook we had your last pulled item yes 11 EOP yeah okay yeah I I have some pretty specific ebop questions. Okay I guess my first one is an oh hey there you. Are okay so good to see you again thanks good afternoon okay so I I did a little bit of a deep dive I know we've been up here a long time but it is what it is and and I I just want to make sure that I understand all of the pieces of this because I've been hearing from the community that that some of these guidelines are a little bit difficult to meet and and I want to make sure that we're doing a good job of of really working towards our I our ideals I can't remember what.

We called them like our aspirational goals and I want to make sure we're doing the best that we can and we've got some edits here so I just if you'll bear with me I guess the first question is we we've sort of designed ebop as something that has a Sunset and so we're now looking at at extending this sunset I was wondering if you could talk a little bit more about why it was designed that way I know we have some aspirational goals and and we're sort of the idea is maybe that this goes away once those goals are met but there is some conversation in there about potentially changing those goals if they're met as well so I was wondering if you could just talk about like the setup of ebop a little bit and how how we got to that so good afternoon mayor Williams mayor Tim Milton and council members I am Sheila fet the deputy CFO in the finance department and I'm here to answer any questions that you have.

About the ordinance today and your question in relation to the the sunset so we on a ideally you want to have disparity studies on a regular basis so you want to have a sunset model so you have the opportunity to reassess and then re-evaluate your goals as well as the ordinance rules regulations policies procedures and then you can basically put it back in Action again okay I and I because I had seen that some of those goals have not changed and there was a comment in there like we haven't met them but if there was a study that said that we we're getting close we might we might change those correct they might grow our last disparity study was in the 2014 2015 and so we are working towards doing a new one so until we have a new study we don't want to actually change those because disparities could have changed since that point so again the disparity study drives our goals okay and and what is the timeline on that.

Disparity study we have just requested a budget request in this current fiscal year coming upcoming fiscal year excuse me to put that into o motion because of course we'll have to do an RFP and go through that process and it normally takes about a year to a year and a half to do that it just depends on the data the analytics okay and I was wondering if you could talk about well I have so many questions okay the I'm going to go in order I guess for the the ordinance that we have in 18- 53 we talk about staff duties to include informing ubbe of City Contracting opportunities can you talk about and this actually have a question about it a little bit further down but do we have an ongoing list of these uve like how is the communication happening from staff to these folks who meet that category and how are we keeping them informed of those opportunities you said 1853 I think that's what I wrote down let me double.

Check I thought I heard how do we inform ubees about our Contracting opportunities yeah so the yeah it says the duties of a city manager and and one of them is informing ubees of City Contracting opportunities and so and I guess my broader question is like do we have a list of folks how are we contacting them what are we are we doing in that so we actually have on our procurement website a link to where you can get to all of our procurement activities we also have a link to our UBC site that provides all those opportunities for ubbe and how we determine that is we use our Hub database once we have project scope to go out there and we contact or the project manager will actually contact those individuals to invite them to come and participate in on the bid process okay so we have it sort of designated by type of contractor or type of business and then we're able to sort of see if.

They fit for various projects all that's in the hub database okay cool thank you and and on that note we have in order for someone to qualify as a Ube there are some particular things that they have to go through in order to make sure they actually are that status but can you talk about how the qualification happens and how they get on that list I don't have the specifics for how they actually qualify to be a certified individual that goes through the North Carolina Department of administration but for us our ordinance requires them to be certified so that we have a way to know that they are actually a an actual minority business okay so we send them through that process and we adopted that process so that we know you are certified so that we can use you and count you in our numbers okay and that process is a state run process it's a state run process yes the Hub database is state run okay and is there are there.

Are there any barriers to smaller local businesses going through that state process is it is it burdensome in any way I I would say that there are a number of steps that you do have to go through some of those particular Hub Serv c not some of those particular programs are more difficult than others or are more challenging I would say but I don't have those particular steps but vendors do have the opportunity to select which one they would like to seek certification towards okay so there are options but they do have to get one of those certifications and it has to be through the state right we do it has to be one of those not all of them are State oh right cuz some of them are federal right correct Okay do and and then I think it said it in here but may I clarify they have the opportunity they the vendor doesn't necessarily have to get certified but that is the vendor's.

Choice but we ask and we like for you to be certified because that increases your opportunity not only with the city of Durham but with any other municipality that also uses that data Hub listing as well okay my understanding and and correct me if I'm wrong but I thought in the in the have to be certified to participate in our particular program because we use that as a mechanism to validate that you are a hubs minority woman-owned business wait sorry so I'm just could you CL so they do have to be certified to participate in our Pro program but a vendor doesn't necessarily have to become certified to do business with the city use this as a mechanism to count it okay and generate that the fact that we have a program okay so they wouldn't get outed to this they wouldn't get the notifications if they didn't have the certification and they also assumedly would not count towards our aspirational goals if they didn't have the certification okay thank.

You and then there was also a restriction on there was a $30,000 minimum for could you just talk about that a little bit too and and why that exists so the 30,000 is more administrative and if I recall correctly that is goes back to state statute as well okay that limit the 30,000 also ties to I think a state statute okay but it's more so along the fact that you know administratively we count the the work to do it for less than 30,000 okay and then in some of the the proposed edits there were a few like big chunks of things that we're looking to remove or that were highlighted in yellow and one of those was 1858 D which was oh no sorry 1853 c which were that I thought that they seemed kind of useful can you just talk about why we were looking to take out 1858 D so we REM any items that were highlighted in yellow we are removing them from the ordinance but they have.

Been added to the draft policy oh okay okay thank you for clarifying okay so that that answers a couple of my questions thank you all right I think that's actually all the questions I have thank you so much you're welcome well I will say the chamber does a really good job at providing workshops to support participants in enrolling at first by yourself no support it is a little tedious but this is they they do a really good job at providing some of those workshops by Angeli stalins is normally the one that overseas it with the county procurement offices as well yeah thanks for saying that I think and if I might just one more thing and the reason I'm bringing that up is cuz I have heard these concerns in the community of folks that are having trouble either meeting the requirements or maybe finding where to go I think that the resources are there but it sounds like the yeah just just being able to sort of get all.

The paperwork done in all the right places because I know we're we're housing part of this in a different department is that true part of ebop is now in it right ebop is now located in the under youz business compliance under the finance department okay yeah and I think that I've just heard in the community that folks are having a little trouble accessing it I think the resources are awesome and I just wanted to highlight that these changes were happening so I appreciate you answering my questions and and I know that staff is available folks for folks who are struggling to get through this process and I know that supporting folks through this process is one of the things that is important to the city so thanks everyone and I would just add I just want to make sure there is some coordination between the county and the city's Hub databases or overlap or some way shape or form I just want to verify our databases don't necessarily overlap but we do collaborate with the.

County on multiple events actually there's one tomorrow so we will be in attendance with them as well is it or next week don't quote me on that dat I apologize on that but we do use the same databases like the Hub database but we don't have the same one we just all we both use the Hub thank you all for your work as a private business owner U my wife we' we've gone through the process with you guys and it's explained really clearly but it was tedious and intimidating initially to what probably some of the folks are going to council member cook about that was true so really appreciate y'all being that resource you want to add to it so thank you Sheila what what I would like to do is take this is a good opportunity to introduce Timothy Jackson who is our new underutilized business compliance manager he has been with us for now I think three weeks three weeks he comes from the city's Greensboro so I think.

They have just got oh you finally got your life together I see all right they have just I think also completed a disparity study so it's going to be a great help in the coming year as we prepare for ours and so Timothy I call him Timothy I think he also goes by Tim but since I'm also Tim I have deemed him is now Timothy so Timothy I will let you introduce yourself how's that thank you mayor council it is an honor to be here in the city of Durham outstanding questions Council my former city manager Tai Joba he said he knew you pretty well mayor Williams he said he's going to be mad at you because you took a jewel from the city of Greensboro so I will say that our mwbe program I ran the most restrictive mwbe program in the state of North Carolina so basically what that means I had to defend the nwb program against various lawsuits there were all kind of community engagements different various.

Questions but to give you the gist kind of to solidify and add on to the questions that were being asked the state of North Carolina when it comes to construction and repair has a general statute that mandates 10% of a total contract will be awarded to mwbe firms so now North Carolina it just sets a framework and each muncipality and County can decide and tailor how they want to make those supplier diversity programs work for your particular municipality so with the city of Durham the way we created our database it actually comes from North Carolina Department of administration Hub database as well as North Carolina Department of Transportation database these are two solidified databases the state's been North Carolina's been using these databases since the conception and so what we've done is narrowed down based on our 2015 disparity study which they track the spend where's the spend where's the city spending majority of its dollars there were 22 counties which makes up our Master service market so.

Out of those 22 counties then we're able to drill down and look at Professional Services construction other services and goods thus that's how we create those vendor lists now true I used to be a former contracted myself from a government that don't have a business anymore and the cumbersome part used to be in trying to get certified and a lot of the challenges that local businesses small businesses would have is we were apprehensive about providing our IRS documentation to the state because we're new we're just trying we're we're we're trying to come up not that we're doing anything illegal but that was a barrier so we voiced our concerns to North Carolina department administration Hub office they came up with the free certification process where they look at various things that we do we provide references and so when it comes down to the city of Durham we took those same processes that the Hub says and said hey if you're registered either through the state Hub office or either North.

Carolina DOT you can qualify for our program we want you and so not to talk too long but they just to kind of you know solidify your question that you ask thank you so much and welcome to the Bull City Mr May I'm sorry I also pulled this item also have some comments on a question I apologize for that all right so first of all Miss fet thanks for coming back I know you were here just about a month ago presenting so I just want to say first of all I'm Sorry Miss Amia take your time yeah so first of all an equal opportunity business program this is is and should be a part a big part of our Economic Development agenda right we' talked we've talked on this on this di today about budgets and about Contracting this is all about how we use our city funds to help support underutilized women on businesses and and minority businesses so and so I am concerned and as my colleague council member cook referenced so we're.

Not meeting our goals we understand we're not meeting our goals and I think in that what you're asking us to do is to in this with this revised ordinance is to pass this now but with the sense that we want to we want to do this new disparity study right that you referenced so that we can actually set some some achievable and meaningful goals for our program right so I just want to I just want to say I want to make sure this is a big priority for you all this is important to do this new disparity study to set these goals realistically so that we actually can work towards meeting the goals I'm concerned in part not only that that firms may be having trouble qualifying but I'm also concerned that we don't have enough of a pipeline of firms that are in the process of getting you know for different things we contract for that are in the pipelines we can groom those folks to be the next generation of.

Businesses so we need to make sure that's done as well so I just want to mention that so I'm happy to to pass the revised ordinance but again I want to make sure this is a real priority for our city that we really hit these goals this is really important how we use our dollars the one question I have and this relates to the goals is that part of the track changes suggested changing the participation goals to aspirational participation goals and so I want to know what is an aspirational participation goal I'm concerned that we'll say they're just aspirational if we don't you meet them like okay okay whatever they're just aspirational I want to make sure that whatever goals we set are goals that we all believe in and that we're dedicated to Meeting those goals so I'm concerned about the language about aspirational participation goals and I'd love love for you to explain what exactly that would mean so we put in aspirational goals because again along with the state.

Statute we're required to have a program but we're not required to have concrete goals we're supposed to have a disparity study that supports the goals around the disparity that we have in the city so everything still generated based on the disparity did I answer your question and I'm just going to add on Council rice so what you want to do is your aspirational goals is the way the city of Durham can measure the effectiveness of the ebot program of your equal business opportunity program and you do that yearly at the end of a fiscal year you would essentially look at those goals whatever if it's 11 and seven for construction you would look at those goals and at the end of your physical year you should be able to compare did we do above did we do below if it's above then that gives you a idea for next physical year maybe Council wants to increase goals if you're doing below then that tells Council maybe we need to.

Either leave them alone or maybe we need to lure so you never want to use your aspirational goals is like a project by project goal but adding on to what Deputy Sheila said so a lot of people get this confused in North Carolina in North Carolina it is against the law to have to utilize goals as a requirement for contract that's considered a set aside that's against the law that's not what North Carolina General statute says what the statute says is you're required to do good faith efforts and there are two ways in North Carolina that that a contractor or someone can demonstrate a good faith effort that either by that is either by having enough participation goals to reach both your mrw or actually submitting documentation show that you tried everything you could and you just couldn't do it so essentially again just circling back around aspirational goals are used for the council to measure the effectiveness of our program yearly I guess I'm confused by this.

Still to me to me I'd I'd rather have simply goals that we set that we all agree on and that we that we work towards and I'm I'm I guess I'm concerned I'd prefer to strike aspirational goals I don't know what that means and again I'm worried that we'll say like well we didn't meet the goal but it's only aspirational anyway so so whatever I I want to set goals that we all believe in and we're committed to achieving so yeah I'd prefer to strike that language and I don't know how we do that in terms of a resolution what the process there is but I that that language I just worry that that gets kind of fuzzy and we don't know really what that means understood and I don't think that would be an issue I think we absolutely can do.

That medon thank thank you Mr Mar no it's good it's good I've been C worse thank you Mr Mayor I want to I want to thank my council member colleague council member riss for bringing it up first I want to thank you for the work you do this is an incredibly important part of our of our work as a city and making sure our policies correspond with our values I want to celebrate how dur actually has been recognized as well in leading in the work of equity in the state in terms of contouring our policy whether it be changing ordering our CIP plan the hiring practices and and and I understand council member risk frustration I do want to say I know at the at the state level with the league of municipalities when we when we talk about Equity we had a big Equity task force last year that I worked on with the league and and to your point as to the law and and this is kind of a hold.

Over from that affirmative action debate we had in our country goals versus quotas and this state legislature is very very very Cent to us not you know using language that implies a hard number tied to race so part of this is is just navigating that that landscape of not using anything that approaches a quota as opposed to a goal you know I will say as part of the reason why this is so hard is because how do you cure racism I I I mean it's it's the reason why we have this program is because a lot of these minority businesses have capacity issues Capital raising issues I mean if there were a policy that we could pass to close it we would have done it I mean why if our friends in education why is the achievement Gap not closed you know yet you know we have goals for our children to read and and right and do math at the same levels but there are all kind of things you know that that that.

Exacerbate that achievement Gap once we're not going to recommend lowering the standards you know in our in our emergency response we know that every time time our police chief comes before us our goals for response time and our actual time our actual time is beneath our goals we're not changing the goals that they're still there but our response time is what it is and I think some of these numbers with our our our our our minority owned businesses they are what they are precisely because of the enormity of the systemic problems we're trying to tackle which predate this Council which darn there you know are part of the fabric of our Republic I know not supposed to say that but but so I'm not really I I don't have a problem with the aspirational language because I understand first the legal landscape that we're dealing with here in the state of North Carolina and secondly if we if we put a number and we don't hit it I mean what's the what's the.

Consequence do do we you know knowing that we didn't hit it because of all the reasons why we established a number in the first place because of decades and centuries of system racism so I want to I want to I want to hold intention council member R Zeal and I know it comes I know where it comes from this brother's real with it to to do better but I also want to recognize the landscape that we have to navigate with this particularly in the state of North Carolina and also celebrate the incredible work you've done thus far and are doing in this area so thank my colleagues thank you thank you Mr mayor council member Freeman thank you I just just wanted to hearken back to one of the comments that council member RIS made and just acknowledging that it is a little different for your ebop program or what have you to sit in finance as opposed to in Economic Development and just kind of lead in and.

Asking is there some connection to the work that's happening in economic development that come I guess spills over into the finance department with ebop that you could speak to so I believe your question was we realigned the unutilized business compliance division with Finance so that we could have a better connection with procurement laws so I wanted to address that first part of your question as far as the Economic Development we are working towards working with them more we collaborate on Outreach events at this point and I believe DM will was going to speak to that today and since we have the the Big Kahuna coming up I just want to make sure I throw in there the request that I guess whatever it is we're doing around these underutilized businesses in that pipeline what it looks like for our youth and how that falls into your office as well repeat that question please what are we doing with our youth the UN UPC we are mostly tailored again on the compliance side.

Along with vendors but I'm not sure if o is handling the youth good afternoon Mr Mayor Mr Mayor protim members of council pardon my voice I promise I feel a lot better than I sound but I'm having one of those allergic moments hanging there with me the green g not certain that we can respond specifically to the youth thing I may have to probe the question a little bit but pursuant to the economic development connection the policy portion of what's in this agenda item represents a very structured kind of relationship with oewd that's somewhat emergent from those kinds of policies that we've had in the past it does represent a a for a formalizing of some relationships that have existed where we were probably just a little aggressive in drawing a kind of demarcation between o wd's focus on its relationship to the business structure and making sure they had access to the greater Durham economy versus the one that existed now in finance that was more focused on those relationships with respect to doing.

Business with the city we've seen wisdom over the years to combine those efforts to talk to talk more generally in terms of having those businesses be a part of the the entirety of the E ecosystem that makes up Durham's economy but we do have to maintain something definitive so that they don't so that they maintain Fidelity over the finance department with some of the more strict provisions of the state aspects such as keeping hubs and all those kinds of things so we've attempted to cure that by putting oedd making a reference to O in the policy I appreciate that I think the the key followup will be to see what other programs can fall out of oewd around making sure and when I say youth I'm thinking 18 to 24 and more of a you know real pipeline sense those business those folks who are starting their businesses that early and how we can be supportive what that might look like and so I don't think it's some anything you'd be able.

To say today but I hope that you're keeping that in mind acknowledge thank. You all right. I think we're ready for you now for our presentation recording stopped excellent thank you for your perseverance this afternoon good afternoon mayor Williams mayor protown Middleton council members manager paig on behalf of the Duram tourism Development Authority and discover Durham several of our members who are here today I want to thank you for having me I'm Susan Amy president and CEO of discover Durham I'm here to share the Des Durham destination master plan with you and why we think it's crucial for a prosperous future for Durham and how we propose to implement it before we dig in I'm going to start with what I'm not here for we don't actually have a budget request for FY 225 so we're going to talk about things that are a little longer term than that still there is urgency around this conversation moving forward to implemen any significant portion of what we propose is going to require.

Legislative action during the general assembly session this spring which as you all know starts just a month from now we've paved much of the way already but we need to achieve alignment and agreement with you before we can move forward on it for this Visionary plan to be successful we the the city the county discover Durham and partners from across the community need to work together now and in the future to make great things happen to borrow an old familiar phrase so I'll come back to the specifics of our legislative agenda at the end since I know many of you are already familiar with this plan I'm going to just hit the highlights in the interest of time and want to leave question time for at the end for questions and discussion and to talk about next steps but feel free to stop me at any point if you'd like to ask questions along the way there's a couple of slides of background in here one is just setting the stage for what visitors.

Mean to the Durham economy visitors in Durham aren't as obvious as they are in places where they wear bathing suits a lot but in Durham we have 12 a half million visitors a year and we are back up to the level of visitation that we were prior to the Pandemic those visitors spend about a billion dollars in our community which supports thousands of jobs generates local tax revenue and supports our local business economy putting money in the pockets of people who own our local businesses tourism is is a broad sector of the economy and it really encompasses a number of different Industries which you see listed here and those billion dollars in spending that I spoke to are the are the dollars that are being spent across all of these different Industries as you look at this list it's easy to see that the everything on this list with some exception for number one are the things that create quality of life for people who live in Durham these.

Make Durham a great place to live for our residents and without the billion dollars in visitors spending we wouldn't have as many of these things we wouldn't be able to support as many of these things as we do today and we all know that are we are growing quickly and that people continue to move here and we're what that is going to mean is that over time we need to have a vision for the type of community we want to be so that we keep up with this population growth and we have the kind of amenities that maintain the quality and standard of life that we enjoy here we also need to have a vision because we need to make sure that as we grow and as things develop they continue to reflect derms character and values we need to make sure for example that we're building the kind of public facing amenities that don't get started by one individual who has a passion for food but by a community that comes.

Together with a common vision and a common will to get major things done and grown in our community so starting last year we brought together a group of people engaged in months of community engagement and as part of that process came to a vision statement for Durham which says that in 20 years that's the the time frame we wanted to set because we have some big dreams that will take years to develop but in 20 years Durham will be the most welcoming inclusive Innovative and vibrant destination in the United States while thoughtfully honoring its history and people we had a lot of conversation about what the how high we wanted to set the bar and decided we are already on a lot of top 10 lists around the country we want to make sure that we continue to be a great Community across the as compared to communities across the United States and the part about honoring history and people is just so important to Durham's character and.

Something that we want to make sure we preserve the plan includes more than 60 different initiatives which we won't have time to get into here they fell into four strategic goal areas one tourism infrastructure tends to be Capital intensive large initiatives the attractions events and experiences has to do with programming and things to do things that engage and entertain people who live here purposeful placemaking are items that don't necessarily drive a lot of economic impact in in and of themselves but they make this a more vibrant and livable community and the final one is about how we get things done together AC accelerating Community alignment is about how we work together to move projects forward and do that well again I I will we have a web page that provides you an opportunity to read the plan and I'm happy to go over any de details that you would like but again in the interest of time I'll just say we looking at some of the different categories these were some examples some.

Of the top economic drivers things that bring visitors to Durham and create economic impact those are some more and then there's a number of items here that are about the community vibrancy and so you you get a sense for these wayfinding signage parks and Trailways making sure that we have the hospitality Workforce ready to fill the jobs that are supported by the visitors food and craft Trails up public Art Trail so there are a number of items here that may not in by themselves bring visitors but make this a rich and Vibrant Community we also took a look at the 60 different initiatives and wanted to compare that back to the city's strategic plan to see where the areas are that they touch and recognize that there are initiatives that really speak to all of the five strategic areas for the city so we believe that the plan will also help the city accomplish the objectives that have set are set out in that plan so now we want to talk about the.

Community alignment part of it and what happens next as we were getting to the close of the planning process last fall we were thinking about what does it take to give this initiative the the power and the structure to the influence to be able to be implemented and we looked at it through the lens of a SWAT looking at what the strengths are of this this is the first time we're going to have a long-term vision for Durham's development as a destination at the same time and as I know you you all know there are a lot of other organizations across the community who are also working on long-term strategic planning and we could list a dozen of them I think that some people have asked is that going to be a conflict and really I think it's an enormous opportunity the fact that we're all thinking long term is wonderful and that we're all doing it at one point in time time is really something to be taken advantage of but what we don't.

Want to do is have all of these plans come forward and put 200 different initiatives in front of various bodies to try and work on how we fund them and how we move them forward we think there's a huge opportunity to come together as a community to figure out how are we going to vet and prioritize these things we also have worked really hard at working with each other as as my some of my peers around the community are working on strategic plans we sit on each other's steering committees and are are part of the discussion around these things and we've made sure that in this plan we are embracing and incorporating many of the things that we know are important to these other groups so there are lots of opportunities to do these things together from a weakness stpoint however Durham is not competitive with other communities in how much we are setting aside right now for developing those assets for the future the tourism infrastructure the the support for programming and the.

Support for Community vibrancy and I'll show you some of the data on that in a few minutes there also relative to the legislative changes that need to be made the Discover Durham needs legislation authorizing us to participate in what's referred to as tourism related activities which most we consider ourselves a destination marketing organization most destination marketing organizations across the state and all of them in major markets have have that authorization it's merely a issue of having been grandfathered into an older rule but it's something that we would need legislative action to correct we also want to think together about how we work together to bring to create a a streamlined process where once we can Define and vet and prioritize the ideas that we want to move forward with think about how we can create a process that makes us more efficient in moving things forward from a threat standpoint I think our number one threat is that we have invested a tremendous amount of time and resources into creating a plan and the.

Biggest threat of course with any plan is that it goes on a shelf and we don't do anything with it but I think there's another threat which is that we agree that it's a good plan but then don't change anything to help make sure that we're able to implement it and that's what we want to advocate for today so you're going to see what our recommendation is that we create an organizational structure that allows us to bring the community together to have these conversations and that we set aside a an appropriate permanent funding stream to invest in future this future development work realize you all are under a tremendous amount of pressure related to how to make the budget work and I have utmost respect for that and for all the very important priorities and don't want to detract from those at the same time we need as a community we need need to decide what is an appropriate amount that would that we would like to invest in these future.

Efforts our recommendation is for an organization we have called it up to now destination Durham we're thinking that that's a working title and we may want to make some changes to that but the description here is something we believe very much in that this would be a Visionary Community Partnership for the sustainable advancement of Durham as the best place to live work and visit we are making proposals for things as part of this plan that bring more visitors but what we want to find are those items and most most of them easily fall into the the category of proposals that also make this a great place to live and to work and th the the intersection of those things are the projects that should become top priority these are some benefits of having an organization that and and it gives you a sense for what these steps that we're proposing would do for the community the first three are really common to the value that visitors bring to Durham one is about adding to.

Resident Quality of Life by promoting and developing new features and attractions in our community second is about creating economic impact that supports our local businesses and creates jobs so as we expand the visitor economy we're expanding on these things and that's also true of developing more this stream of tax revenue that covers the cost of government services we like to save visitors come in they contribute to our tax base and then leave before we need to use any of our services on them these next items are more specific to this structure that we are talking about implementing one is if you're we said a 20-year vision for a reason because some of the ideas in this plan will take a long time to develop an example would be a multisport complex or a Convention Center that could take more than a decade to develop so it's very important that you have a way to provide continuity of leadership even though elected leaders and terms turn over much more quickly than one of the.

The length of time it takes to implement one of these projects we need an organization that can create that Common Thread to make sure that we're able to follow through on what we've determined to do number five is about the project management work and that's the idea for this organization is that they would be handling the first The Upfront part of project management you have an idea before you can decide as an as a community that you want to pursue it and invest in it there's a tremendous amount of work to do feasibility assessments and look at how much it would cost and to do renderings and initial design to determine where it would be built find the Partnerships put together the Partnerships that would be necessary and figure out how you would Finance such a thing and those are things that are very difficult we recognize for our city and county staff in those areas to be able to devote time to given all of the really urgent needs that they deal with every.

Day it also should make things easier for all of you I am in awe of the breadth of decision content and decisions you all have to dive into and digest and be able to make Intelligent Decisions about on a on a weekly basis there's a tremendous amount of data and I it's hard to imagine how you can have enough time to become expert on each one of these projects especially if we're talking about large complex projects with massive studies behind them and what we would propose in developing an organization where we can set a sort of template and expectation for what kind of analysis is expected before as a community we're willing to consider investing in something and what what are those hurdles and benchmarks for bringing information and Analysis to you it would make your job easier and it would give you a sort of common platform of communication to expect this would give an a tax deductible opportunity because we propose setting this up as a 501c3 three.

It would give us an opportunity for those corporations or individuals who would like to invest in the kind of community amenities we're talking about to be able to do so in a tax deductible way and know that they're providing These funds to a professionally managed organization and finally taking this route actually additionally creates new funding and project management mechanisms so let me talk a little bit about the money portion of this one of the things we had the perception that Durham did not have as many funds from Hospitality that are directed to developing Assets in the community so we did a study and we're able to show it actually was more dramatic than we expected in North Carolina there are two types of hospitality taxes meals taxes and occupancy tax in only five communities in North Carolina are authorized to collect meals tax Durham's not one of those so we have occupancy tax to work with but we looked at just the major Metropolitan or urban areas in North Carolina to compare the amount of.

Hospitality taxes that are available for developing these kinds of assets and as you can see Durham is on the far right and those funds the 1.9 million that that represents are not actually available for any new assets that's the amount that is paid each year in debt service for deac for another 10 years and there's that's 1.4 million and then then there's a half million dollars that's paid through the county to support the Museum of Life and Science so none of those dollars are actually available for new assets and then we did a little study and this gets technical so I'll I'll let me know if this is not clear enough in my explanation but North Carolina has uniform tax guidelines that were set up in 1997 at the state level and say that any or any jurisdiction can collect up to 6% in occupancy tax two-thirds of it needs to be spent for tourism promotion and onethird must be spent for tourism related which again could mean product development Capital expenditures.

Things like things that that would be related to attracting more visitors to the community in Durham we were had we were established before those 1997 guidelines and when they came out we were grandfathered into our existing structure which is this although there have been some changes over the years to add on to the the original occupancy tax the way ours is set up onethird of the occupancy tax comes to discover Durham and that's our annual budget it can only be used for tourism promotion half of the occupancy tax is split between the city and the county for any lawful purpose is the the language of the bill and then the last percent percent of the occupancy tax is the part I was speaking about 1.4 million for deac half a million for the Museum of Life and Science and then if there's there's anything left over in that bucket it comes to discover Durham but again we can only spend it for tourism promotion ultimately what we would love.

To move to is to be competitive with these other communities is to move to the same kind of funding structure that the other communities have if we were able to do this that 2% that's tourism related would be what we would be channeling to fun excuse me channeling to invest in the kind of projects that come out of the destination master plan however the 4% that would be tourism promotion can also be used to promote those assets and Market them as they would come online I'll come back to options to give you a little bit of a idea about what this would mean from a dollar standpoint as you can see FY 23 numbers are actuals and then we projected 24 25 and 26 with modest growth each year and you can see how much it go to the county and the city for each one of those years and then if we were to make these changes this shows what that change would look like so it does mean that we.

Would be redistributing occupancy tax currently collected and and used by the city and the county into these efforts and for the city our projection for FY 26 would be that would be 4.8 million that does does include the 1.4 million related to the the DPAC debt service so if we were to make this CH we also calculated as you can see a what percentage that would be of the fy2 24 budget just to give you an idea so it's less than 1% if we were to take out or or continue to carve out that 1.4 million to go to deac Debt Service it would reduce the amount of this variance for the city of term the idea and I we'll come back to to the discussion about legislation and how it relates to this tax in just a minute the idea behind this would be that occupancy tax isn't the only thing that would fund this work in addition to that there a lot of these projects have there are state and federal grants.

That would support a lot of the types of projects that we have interest in and the community told us were of of value you have to have somebody able to go after those grants and to make that to to put in Grant applications and then manage those over time but that's something this organ organization could also do and as I mentioned this would be a place for corporate individual donations and while that might not be a major portion of the funding stream in the beginning as we get going we think it there's an opportunity there long term I know we've had a lot of Conversation Over time about the appetite and and capacity of some of our local corporations for example example to invest in assets and we haven't had a a pathway for them to do that where we could say easily here are naming opportunities on a number of different projects that we have in the future and how would you like to participate and then just to be clear.

About what the role of this organization is this is about doing The Upfront project management this is not about developing a development organization or that would be managing construction projects and if we were for the occupancy tax portion of this we're at today's value we're talking about up to about 5 million a year so that's not enough to pay for a sports complex or a Convention Center what it is enough to do is to cover the upfront part of the project management work so that we have we can make strong decisions and so that we can do the work to get the funding sources in place and understand what our pathway is to creating to creating it in terms of how we would set this up we're not talking about a new nonprofit that would be a standalone in the community I know there's been we've been talking with people throughout the community about this plan to get feedback and there was some concern about setting up a new nonprofit in.

Durham and but in this case it would be operated by discover Durham and the advantage of that is that all of the money that we are able to put into asset development could go directly into the work of the nonprofit and while discover Durham covers operational expenses and marketing for all of the work that they're doing so it gets gets this organization up to speed much more quickly and without the overhead the business of overhead and creating a new entity from scratch I'm going to skip this slide as a a timeline we can come back to it if it's of interest but I thought I would just net out for you what's going on so the destination master plan was completed at the end of December it's unanimously approved by the steering committee and by the tourism Development Authority we need to get a local bill passed in the general assembly this spring and what we need that let me talk a little bit about that and why that's so important Senator Woodard.

Is already poised to sponsor this bill and we have the support already of all six members of the Durham's delegation to the general assembly having Senator Woodard support this in this term gives us the best chance of getting being successful with this item if we miss this year we would be waiting an entire year for us to have the authorization to move forward on any of this work neither Senator Woodard nor discover Durham however would want to move forward with this proposal if we don't have alignment we want to be in agreement with you all and with the county so that we are coming together as a community that's going to be important for all of us because we all need to be able to work together what we would like to have is authorization to engage in tourism related activities beginning July 1st of this year and although beginning the redistribution of occupancy tax that's in question in FY 26 is which is what you saw in that spreadsheet would be the.

Ideal that gets us that gives the city and and in parallel the county more than a year to work it out we realize that is still a very big jump and that you all have a tremendous amount of pressure from a budget standpoint so I'd like to propose today that we change the ask here to soften the impact if if you wanted to move forward with the full redistribution for FY 26 that's fine but as an alternative why don't we carve out the 1.4 million that continues to satisfy the DPAC Debt Service until that that is sunsetted and then redistribute a third of the occupancy tax each year for three years starting with the FY 26 year the if you take the 4.8 million that you saw for the city and you subtract the 1.4 for DPAC that brings it down to about 3.4 and then divide it over three years it would mean a about 1.1 million is added each year for a three-year period the other thing we're doing.

Because this would shift the capacity the amount of funding that's available for the nonprofit We also want to propose and this would need to be part of the legislation as well that discover Durham be authorized to use up to a third of our current fund balance for tourism related activities as of July 1st of this year that gives us some funding to be able to get the this whole thing up and running starting over the course of 2024 so it gets us to work faster and hopefully demonstrates that we believe so strongly in this work that we're willing to put some of our own fund balance in it to get it started checking to see if there's anything else that I've left out so to summarize on legislation there are three items one is authorization for discover Durham to participate in tourism related activities which is not something that I would expect to be controversial to anybody at all the second piece of this is authorization for us to spend up.

To a third of our existing fund balance to help get these efforts underway for tourism related activities and then the third is the redistribution of occupancy tax that's something that we can have conversation about I asked Senator Woodard if it would be feasible for us to put forth a bill that would say that by a certain time and maybe 5 years in the future by 2028 we will have accomplished this but leave it to local US locally to work out the details of that and that is not in in his view a wise way to go forward with the bill he said it would if we want to set up a different scheme other than changing things all at once we can certainly do that but we would want the bill to specify exactly what that is so with that I'd like to stop and ask for any questions or discussions well just real quick so we can I can make sure this is clear in the in the appendix on the steering.

Committee you'll see zes in city council all of that stuff I this was I was involved with this a lot before I was actually on Council and then I joined Council and took on a formal capacity and now I'm actually on it as mayor so just wanted to put that out there and I'll say I appreciate your involvement manager Paige and council member javiera Caballero are all part have been part of the steering committee that's helped Drive the direction of this and we appreciate all of that support council member cook hey good afternoon thank you for waiting through our budget or our work plan meeting meeting work session meeting could you just repeat for me the three legisl legislative changes that you just stated just so I I want to make sure that I wrote them down clearly certainly one is for discover Durham to be authorized to engage in tourism related activities a second is authorization for us to use up to a third of the fund balance that has been collected in the.

Past before we had that authorization and but still use those funds for tourism related expenditures and the third piece is the redistribution of occupancy. Tax okay and I think I asked you this question before but I I want to just clarify because when we were talking about the the pie charts that you just had in your presentation the proposed occupancy tax and I know now that the ask is slightly different but the one that's listed here has 4% tourism promotion and 2% tourism related and I thought that I heard you say that part of that 4% could be used for asset development but that is different from what I understood before so I just wanted to clarify no what I was saying and this may have been what I said that was confusing that we we can only use 2% for tourism related expenditures or onethird of the occupancy tax but the 4% for tourism promotion would be those funds can be used we we use those to promote Durham already and.

The assets and attractions that it has we can also leverage those funds to promote the new things that will be developing so it would add to the success as we bring new items online Okay and and this is all going to I guess come together but my I guess the part that I'm I'm having trouble just because I haven't seen y'all's work and I know y'all have done all run all the numbers but this is a it's a big shift in terms of money and and I and I've asked you before and and I think you said before there's only going to be one staff addition to manage this project is that is that still what you foresee we haven't landed on what the Staffing plan would need to be and something that we're working on right now we are envisioning that that perhaps too okay like a a director leader and a someone for Grants and and development work okay but not like a huge staffing change and and so and.

Obviously this money doesn't go to the projects themselves so can you just talk a little bit more in detail about like what that upfront cost for project management looks like like why what is what is it that takes up that amount of money I'm I'm just curious where it all goes certainly well the the range of projects is really Broad and so it's going to change and Vary depending on what the project is for a major Capital project intensive project like a sports facility this would be running the feasibility assessment on opportunities for revenue and the financial feasibility a costing defining the requirements doing the community engagement ultimately to the point of doing some maybe some early conceptual design and renderings of the project and then working with Partners in the community to determine and in many cases something like that would be a P3 a public private partnership or IT projects of that nature might have multiple streams of funding required to put it together and then one of the things that we have.

Spent much of the last four years on related to the sports complex has been determining where it could be built and and what kind of setting it needs to be in so that's the kind of analysis and projection work that would need to and and some early design work that would need to be done does that help yes very much so. And so and just so I understand too and you just went over this but I want to make sure so and now your ask is to reserve the amount specifically for the city that we are paying on the DPAC payments the rest of the occupancy tax though is still your hope is that is still diverted to discover Durham and then the the uses are changed is that correct correct correct okay and then do we do we have and I know it's hard to get folks reads on things but do we have a sense of where the county stands on this the feedback has been very positive they have a legislative.

Agenda session tomorrow morning that we are attending and my understanding is that they'll be prepared to present this but I am awaiting further conversation about that okay thank you that's all my question they have they have had the same reaction that in that I believe I have generally picked up from people which is it's great to have a plan and this is very important and it's a question of where will the money come from and and how will will the county go about finding the funds to put this in place right yeah and I appreciate the the change because I think the the thing that really really scared me was the absorbing of debt right that that ask felt really large so I appreciate the flexibility and I just want to commend you on on that but thank you mayor that's all my questions go ahead hi Susan good to see you thanks for the presentation I've seen it before just want to let colleagues know I'm I'm super supportive.

Of this work I think it really moves Durham forward I know we have some legislative things that we have to do I hope either either myself or mayor Williams will be adding that to the legislative session agenda and I know that we both have been in conversations with carisha as well I appreciate you thinking about the debt service and also I think the kind of leveling off so it it a doesn't happen this year B it's next year but over a series of years because I think that at the end of the day it it won't be as as a hard thing to do and if you know ultimately and I think it is is definitely what we need we are very behind many of our communities I think it was the sports commission last year that came to us around the Youth Sports facility and I think the last time that a sports facility or Sports type amenity was built was the was the stadium by the.

County and was like 1960 or something if I'm I'm not mistaken so we are quite far behind and we live in a area that is very competitive and people choose where they're going to live based on these kinds of amenities as a parent who has had kids and a variety of sports I will say it gets quite annoying to have to drive to other communities to get those amenities and benefits and I'd much rather have it in Durham thanks yes I appreciate that the the and I want to give the Durham Parks and Recreation credit for the fact that there have been many facilities that have been developed what we're missing is the facilities that can support tournaments which is where we can create economic impact that helps us in turn pay for facilities so mer Moore Park is one that is I would say although it it can't support everything it is actually hosting a tournament in a couple of weeks so we're pretty excited about that but that's.

A pretty recent development and other than that before that in terms of tournament ready facilities as you said the last one was the Durham County Memorial Stadium which is approximately the same age as me thank you and I I do want to lift up former mayor sh because he was the champion of getting those kinds of fields and really listening to community to to really have pretty high quality pitches and we don't have to drive to effland or and cfc's Fields in Raley for that I will say I'm going to put a plug in for an ice rink please thank you colleagues Freeman thank you I just I I appreciate the presentation and I just really wanted to I guess dig in on what the followup is and also to ask the question just backing up a way acknowledging that these structures all need maintenance how would you factor that in for repair as you're doing this work to build out I guess for the future sites during the feasibil financial.

Feasibility phase I would expect in you'd be projecting the cost to build and then equip facilities and you'd also need to look at the life cycle and what the maintenance and operational costs are and as I say the the nature of the 60 initiatives is so broad that you can't make one blanket statement about what all of that would mean but that should be a part of the analysis of each one of those and I think what I'm most concerned about is not having some connection to economic development in this as well and so realizing and and just the previous conversation with ebop how how is this discover or destination Durham going to carry through I guess some of the goals that are of of the city as a nonprofit organization the let me see if I understand your question correctly if I don't get it correctly let me know as one of the the advantages of setting up this underneath the umbrella of discover Durham is that we follow procurement and financial policies that.

Are consistent with a government organization and so we those same Financial policies would apply to the nonprofit in the way that it goes about doing things okay that and the goals yes and one of the things about this would be this organization would have its own board of directors and that board of directors would be developed to represent the components of the the aspects of the community involved that they're going to benefit from these and be able to provide a community based vision for each one of these projects it's one thing to have a vision for what are the many projects that we'd be interested in and now on each one of those projects we have to understand how has this best serve the community and that board and the staff that would be hired for this organization would be responsible for doing that kind of groundwork to make sure that what we Define and what we pursue is consistent with the kind of values we want to have.

Thank you I would just ask and who would decide who's on the board of directors well we are doing community engagement around that right now to talk about who would need to be part of it certainly a piece of that is having people who have the influence in the community to be able to Define what the needs are and to bring resources to the table but we need to make sure that we are representative of the needs many needs across the community so we're we're taking a look at that right now and further conversation is welcome on how we might go about approaching that I definitely would encourage some neighborhood level engagement and making sure that the multi- neighborhood organizations are involved in the conversation because at that level sometimes it gets missed thank you thank you I I appreciate the the projects that are coming forward I do think that we're behind and and I am supportive of of trying to figure out what that looks looks like I'm still.

Concerned about the structure so okay thanks Mr Mayor Miss Amy thank you so much for the presentation I I love the I love the vision you've set out here and it's you know it's a it's like we all durh we love Durham it's amazing to think that actually this the first time we've actually had a destination plan for Durham right you know I came here 30 years ago love Durham it was a much smaller sleepier place then we are now we are a world class City and so like we absolutely need a des a plan so I thank you for the vision there it's not just convention center it's also Sports complexes it's also the idea of this like cap The Greenway freeway cap connecting hay time downtown it's amazing stuff so thank you for that to my colleague's question about Economic Development I know it probably sound like a broken record because we just talked about mop being a big part of our economic development plan but like any destination plan is.

One key part of any any first class City's economic development plan what this means is like we're bringing visitors to our city I know wonky economists talk about exporting your tax space but essentially we're doing that where visitors come and they pay taxes that help support our budget so this is a key part of an economic development plan so I really love that I just have a couple questions so regarding the the nonprofit startup and the sort of the allowance to use reserves for that nonprofit is that a decision that we need to make who makes that decision we would need authorization from the state legislature to that's also okay and then it would be the tourism Development Authority who could authorize so what we would what we would propose to put into the legislation would be that we are authorized to use up to onethird of our fund balance for that and then the tourism Development Authority would need to vote on that around specific needs that this new.

Organization would have at the same time we're talking to Partners in the community about their interest in providing some seed funding to get this started so we we there's more work to be done to figure out exactly what that startup budget needs to look like and then how best to pull that together when I know we're developing our legislative agenda right so certainly those first two things seem like certainly pieces that we can all I assume agree on for the for our delegation to take forward to Raleigh I guess on the third one as my colleague council member cook noted the sort of the redistribution of the occup occup occupancy tax tax is a big deal right or bigger deal so my question there and I think we something we have to wrestle with along with our partners in the county what's the timeline on that when when does that decision need to be made that would be part of the legislation that we would need to propose so the bill needs to be written.

And ready to go by the April 24th start date for the General Assembly so that's all a package for this yeah this this session yeah okay thank you thank you Mr Mayor so good to see you and was really anticipating this this presentation I want to thank you for the Times when the mayor was hung out all night and didn't want to get up in the morning and I had opportunity to greet visitors to the city and you co-hosted me he does it often so I I want to thank you you did an excellent job too for those opportunities you've given me this is this is I hope everybody watching this presentation has a kind of an aha moment and just realizes how cool our city is and hot it's been without even trying because I think a lot of folk assume that we've been doing this I think a lot of folk assume that this structure it's been deliberate and conscious it's been organic it it's been just who we are.

That's been drawing it without us giving any gas so I I I hope that makes us all proud and say well imagine what we could be with some actually deliberate structure and effort to it I I want to ask a question about one of the slides and then I have think about the two other questions that I'm done or comment that I'm done on the slide with the spending the pie chart with spending visitor spending by category oh yes got lodging food and beverage 30% Recreation 12% retail 7% there's not a percentage on Transportation I think the other ones add up to about 66% what is transportation spending by visitors this is the incl inclusive of airfare okay so we are travel by air and then rental cars gas other things that they anything that the rides shared shared rides so anything that they're using to get around so the the the revenue would be by way of use of RDU as a Gateway that it's it's accruing.

To us and and that correct this is this is looking at of those Travelers who visitors who come to Durham how many of them came by air and then it's figuring in the the transportation cost for them sure okay thank you for for mentioning the legislative actions needed and you talked about product development what what what would what would some of those products look like just for example I'm using that term to refer to I have a background in product development so that that term mology comes naturally but we're talking about any of these projects that we want to develop whether that is a Convention Center or a sports facility or a freeway cap or even parks and trails all of those are projects and many of those projects I want to give kudos to the fact that there it's not like nothing's happening right now there are many projects going on or that are envisioned in different parts of the parts of the community by different groups so but.

This organization could serve as a community Force to help ensure that to bring Partners together and that excuse me as they think about what are the what's the scope of this project and how do we make sure that we are incorporating into whatever this this Trail is there may be three or four different organizations who have desires for what the trail can be and we can bring those voices to the table and Define what that scope looks like and then help provide some of the funding to make it happen it doesn't mean this organization would do all of the projects some they might be the do the full project management work to develop the whole the whole thing in other cases they act as more of a facilitator an advocate or a convenor in bringing parts of the community together to get things done thank you so much for that so finally I for me what what I I have cautious excitement about is is the ability for for this work and work up.

In this area to help us address a concern that a lot of us have about and we've heard it in toned in different ways loss of the flavor of Durham the DNA of Durham gentrification things of that nature this is about tourism not residents come spend your money then leave I'm sure some folk could come here and want to live you know live here based upon what they see but this is about tourism not residency when you think about why people would come to Durham and you look at other cities around our nation there are cities that have neighborhoods and communities that part of their tourist draw is actually preserving the DNA of those neighborhoods I've said before you think about Sweet Auburn in Atlanta or Sugar Hill in Harlem where folk make pilgrimages you know we should be leading lgbtq tourism with Paulie Murray's residents here A whole buildup around that this should be a a mecca for for black those who are interested in the history of black intellectualism and.

Economic development that fville street Corridor should be a Mecca yes but we haven't done the work to package it and build it up but we can't package it and build it up if we don't preserve it if it doesn't preserve that character Walltown should be one of those neighborhoods where folks should come and visit so for those of us that are concerned about gentrification this could be part of our tool chest to to push back and council member Freeman talked about you know organic neighborhood buying buying because as it's going now just left to regular Market forces we're losing that battle just left to it as now but but if we codify those neighborhoods and make the historic nature and preserving the historic nature of those neighborhoods and the residents in those neighborhood actually part of the appeal of Durham and having Avenues of funding that's non-governmental to help preserve those neighborhoods and perhaps even help those residents because now you know we talk about corporate citizenship we got Google Facebook coming all these.

Companies coming and there really is no mechanism you know in other cities they they'll build stuff and give a bunch of money but there are mechanisms in place for them to do that we don't really have that in Durham so even if they want to give our government money we'll say well we don't have a pot to put it we don't have staff capacity to work it this is something that we can do in that way and I I'll dismount on this and and you know I saw the bullet under our threats where it says limited philanthropic entities you know we we so if it's limited that means the list is small and we can all think about who's on that list of the small ones that we have right now and so we might want to you know just be careful who we go to war with in this in this context in terms of philanthropic entities in our city when the list is so small already and what we're already getting particularly.

If that philanthropic entity is actually part of the draw that we're enjoying now to our city so I just put that out there I'm very excited about the work I look forward to doing what we need to do at the state level with our legislature and and pushing it through I see no reason why Durham should not enjoy the same designation as so many of our other cities around of the state enjoy know particularly since Durham is part of what makes North Carolina so appealing when those corporations come they're coming here to our area when they come for art to North Carolina they come in our area so we celebrate what's going on in North Carolina we ought to celebrate the ZIP code that is happening in so I'm really excited can't wait to to see this come to fruition and I know our partners at the county are listening will be just as eager because we're all going to share from the same pot same success and I'm looking forward to folk flying in.

And say show me Walltown show me ha Tai show me Black Wall Street show me Paulie Murray's house and North Carolina Central as well as duke so kolos thank you thank you Mr Mayor y back you councilman Freeman just a follow-up question is is the occupancy tax covered in the Airbnb yes they are contribute documen tax also so is it is it in some way shape or form possible for you to set up some like how do you how do you gather information about who's in those how many people are in there how many people are visiting like is that all coming to discover Durham or would that be possible to come to destination how many people how many Airbnb how many are here how many people are in them like okay we we are able to get some information it's a small enough portion of durh there's services that you can subscribe to that will give you all of the data okay we have elected not.

To do that because it's not a big enough segment of the lodging offering inventory in durum we we do have some historical data on it that we could provide thank you all right colleagues all right thank you so much all right this is something that I I know I've been personally engaged in for while while formerly engaged in for a while now and one of the one of the situations that happens in Africa is I used the analogy of they grow oranges and then they sell the oranges and then buy the orange juice back it's a horrible economic situation but we all know there's there's been forces to create that but I am tired of having our kids grow up in our streets but have to go to carry to play Sports in the air facility and having to you know you know go elsewhere for events and you know the amount of money that we lose because we don't have a convention center with real capacity and you.

Know we I believe it was last year we broke the record in sales tax R revenue and we didn't really have the amenities to really do anything so we are trending the Right Way Durham is cool I say a lot Durham is dope and what I mean by that is just we have a lot to be proud of while we have our flaws that we have to continue to working to you know continue working toward this is a really cool place and a lot of people know about us everywhere I travel around the country in the world people know about Durham and they want to come here we want to make sure when they come here they are seeing all of the things that they've heard about but we need to really we need to really project those things when you drive I think hati is what hits to me in my core when you when you get on fville street and you actually drive across that bridge that the ISA Howard Administration separated those.

That Community from the city when you drive across the bridge you should know that you're entering in toai it should be a museum neighborhood when you drive down pedigree or Paris Street you should know the history of these streets chicken bone Park like we have so many historical areas that we could just really highlight that we have just sitting there untapped and I really hope that you know we can find a way to which this is the way I believe find a way where we can have a body that can solely be you know focused on the project management of you know creating the amenities or or you know the the the conditions to really highlight those those those spaces that's why I get excited about this I know that you know this this reallocation of what this reallocation of funds that we were talking about is just a very small amount but right now I who knows what's going to happen in November but right now there's grant funding at the federal.

Level available for reconnecting neighborhoods and it's a little frustrating we probably won't even be up and running in time to get you know to get that money but if we can find some way to get access to it it would be great to get that significant grant money from the federal level and maybe look at you know how do we reconnect he Tai and I know it's going to be really difficult to reconnect he Tai back this direction so we will have to go East well there's a lot of investment needed for EAS durum and that would be great you know so there there's a lot of opportunity here tips are really complicated to incorporate in North Carolina this is the best workaround I think we can find you know so I I really hope that we can support it and and our legislative meeting is coming up early April colleagues so you're going to get an email really soon about that not only with legislative requests April early April yeah not only.

With legislative requests but also the date so Derek is going to be working with all of our calendars to make sure we're all all able to make it but before you go we have a few more questions yes no Mr Mayor I just wanted to tee up what the legislative process is for folks because thank you it's going to be a new process so I don't think Susan's looking for any clear answer today she I think wanted to see what the enthusiasm was and then on our end either myself or Leonardo M mayor Williams will be everybody gets asked legislative agenda items former council member Johnson was the queen of it put 40 items on there yeah I'll send out an email yeah and the short session we do what we call we've kind of focus historically we don't really know what T but we focus on what we call a local bill which is just something that affects Durham it's not a Statewide thing and so over the next few days.

Just you know at some point there's an informal thumbs up about yeah we're good with this going on the legislative agenda because then our delegation knows to move it forward so you just need to tell those of us us who ahead of time like yeah your what your intention is around that that's it thank you yep so you've given us a lot of information today that we really needed to see and once we you know we'll we'll make everything concrete is where we stand as far as where we stand when we have that that legislative meeting I I'll be sending out notification to the council and we'll go ahead and get our draft agenda together we'll have our meeting with our delegation members and solidify that that'll give you notice of what's going to Raleigh and we we'll we'll see what happens after that I I am going to ask that you all make available to the council because we have a lot of new.

Members I because we have a lot of new members I wanted you to make make the presentation available to council about like the visitation who like like visitors that are coming to Durham a lot of the predata okay analysis that it really informed why we were going this direction you it was like a presentation that I mean the metadata that showed who's coming into town who's passing through how much they're spending a night you know the fact that we have dismal Hotel Beds downtown we don't have enough hotels for Christ's sake we have wonderful Hotel Beds downtown they're just we need more of them have nice hotels we don't have enough Hotel Beds yes 800 we we have no end of data available and so we will share some data and then if you have more questions beyond that please let us know because we're happy to to provide more thank you all right thank you very much thank you so much all right colleagues we are not done but that is the agenda public.

Agenda here at this time wait I need to settle I would need to settle the agenda but wait do I settle that before I do this right and I have to entertain a motion also for you right for close session did we do that earlier okay good Madame clerk thank you Mr Mayor I've got three nominations the first is the recreation advisory commission appointment category person with a disability the nomination is for Larry Dale mckel the second Durham City County Environmental Affairs board appointment in the category of Youth Ben Goldberg and the last one for the Durham cultural Advisory Board appointment no category the appointee is Lorenzo a Pedro and that's it thank you so much Madam clerk at this time we'll I refer to the manager to settle the agenda thank you Mr Mayor before I read the agenda I am not certain of the council's pleasure around item number six which is the budget and Management Services budget development guidelines that item would be.

Scheduled to be on the consent agenda at your next council meeting or it could be placed on the GBA and I would like your advice before I read I I think we just had information we just had discussion about it unless unless I'm I'm wrong no I think it's I think it's fine I'd say consent okay yeah thank you for consent I have items 1-9 and item items 11 through 18 and GBA public hearings items 20 through 22 thank you thank you I'll entertain a motion to settle the agend move to settle second moved and properly second all in favor I all right thank you all so much before we move into close session I just really wanted to make sure I I provided a little clarification due to some comments the other night we it cost a lot of confusion about locking people out of City Hall we don't lock people out of City Hall what we do is we follow this I since I'm responsible for facilitating.

This meeting I will follow the fire code if we get to the point where there is no more seats I'm not going to put us in danger of being in violation and in case you know something happens we have to run out of here people get trampled so it was it was my decision to follow the actual process in place and and I would I will continue that that is why we also put extra chairs in the lobby and just making sure that we are trying to accommodate as many people as possible if there is ever a concern you know where folks feel they're not being able to have access then that that's something we could talk to them about I if it is a little frustrating when when I've personally seen folks come in go back out wait until we get capacity and then complain that they can't get inside and that happened twice where I saw it myself something else that is a little concerning to me is I want to make.

Sure that we're consistent on what time we open the doors to make sure folks can be able to get in here have enough time to get to the clerk's desk to sign up so that they can make sure that they sign up before the meeting start once the meeting starts we're now handling the business of the people but it will not be a freefor all a free-for all and I will I just won't tolerate it you know and I want to make sure that we are following procedure that is welcoming and accommodating to everyone but it it will not just be a free-for all and I don't want to put us in danger and I don't want to put us in in a position to be sued either and we've had some close calls and I I just wanted to make that very clear clear this mayor and I would not lead a counsil that will lock people out of their own their own house so Mr Mayor just for clarity I don't.

It wasn't these doors that were the issue it was the front door to the building of City Hall that was the concerned because the doors were locked so people could not enter the entire building so it's not the chamber that's of concern understanding the fire code that is not an issue I think all pre previous Mayors have had similar situations and we you know it's well well documented and noted that you know the doors of the chamber may you may not be able to come into the chamber but it's the city hall itself being locked that's disturbing and so I just want to clarify you're saying that you didn't know that the doors of the city hall were locked I I didn't state which doors I didn't state which doors and if that's a concern then Madam manager can we please look into that all right can I also just make a request and this is around the sign up I know that you're being firm about the 7 PM sign up.

Which I think is fine because we're currently not following some of our procedures on letting how many people speak there is limits to how many people we allow to speak and we're not following that rule so that's something that we are cleaning up on procedures committee end if we're going to follow if we're going to let as many people speak which I firmly supportive then the cut off 7 p.m. and I understand that I respect that but I think then the doors to be able to get in need to be at 6:30 because when we're opening them up at 6:45 and 650 especially on a budget hearing night here budget hearing night folks aren't able to get here by 700 p.m. so I think if we're going to have a conversation around that process that would be my request is that we are ensuring people have access to the cards to speak because we're cutting off comment at 7 p.m. and I I get that we've had a lot of.

Folks commenting a lot but that that is my request thank you yep I make one comment yep I would like to make one comment and it it is a general comment we actually do have capacity in the lobby of City Hall as well as in this building I do I do understand that we need to look at exactly how we manage the capacity in both places but there is is not an unlimited capacity in the lobby as well as not certainly not Unlimited in this in this in this chamber Mr May if I yeah thank you Mr May and and I I do recall from past incidents a after the capacity of the building is different from the capacity of the public areas available at certain times after a certain time this building is closed so because people could fit on the second or third floor in our suite after a certain time th those are not open our capacity is the lobby and this building as I understand and and from what I.

From what I understand is that there was an issue with the the number folk in this room and in the lobby and some of the posture of some of the people at the door as well which which could have caused an issue we don't want people to get trampled we don't get people get people to get stomped but you know as as a not only member of this Administration but in past ones as well there's absolutely no appetite and there'll be no tolerance as the mayor said for locking anyone out of the building for any other reason than the preservation of life and property anything other than that you know I'd be the first person with folks saying that's that's nonsense but the characterization of locking folk out the building without context I think is just a disservice to what actually occurred but I do welcome the mayor's directive to to look at that but my understanding I I think well not my understanding it's important to understand that capacity of the building.

Is different than the capacity of the publicly accessible areas at the time of our public meeting because the building's not open the lobby in this chamber are open and the restrooms of course thank you Mr Mayor all right thank you all so much we will now we will now move into close session I'll enter no I've already done the motion right all right so we'll now go into close session at time do we need a motion already I mean again minutes yeah I did it earlier yeah yeah I'll see you up there at at.

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