Good afternoon everyone. m. I'd like to call this meeting of the Durham City Council work session officially to order for the purposes of faithfully discharging the business of the people of Durham. Good afternoon to my honorable colleagues, to our staff, all who are in room with us today and all who are watching on whatever platform you may be watching.
His honor, the mayor is in route and should be with us shortly, but we want to keep fidelity with our schedule and go ahead and get started. With that, I'm going to ask madam clerk if you would call the role. Thank you, Mr. Mayor Prom.
Mayor Williams is delayed. He's on his way. Mayor Prom Middleton, >> I'm here. >> Council member Baker here.
>> Council member Cabayro here. >> Council member Cook >> here. >> Council member Freeman >> present. >> Council member Rrist received an excused absence for today.
And that's it. >> All right. The chair deems that we do have quorum. Uh at this time, I'm going to yield to my honorable colleagues for any announcements they may have.
Council member Cook. Good afternoon. >> Good afternoon. Um just a brief reminder that we are still in the middle of early voting. We talked about this in the meeting on Monday. Uh, but the only thing on your ballot is municipal
elections. I know it's not the sexiest election of all time, but uh, we have already beaten some of our, uh, municipal other municipalities across North Carolina in terms of our, uh, primary voting record, and I hope to blow them out of the water for our general. So, everyone, please exercise this right that we currently have and hopefully will maintain forever. Okay.
>> Thank you, Council Member. Council member Baker, good afternoon. >> Good afternoon. In this room, it's one of the sexier elections, I'd say.
Um, uh, good good afternoon to everyone. Thank you all for being here. Um, looking forward to a good and productive meeting. Um, nothing nothing for me today.
Thanks. >> Thank you, Council Member. Council Council Member Kabiro, good afternoon. >> Thank you.
Uh, good afternoon everyone. Good to be with you all. Uh, very quickly, it's uh, municipal voting season, but also it is participatory budgeting voting season. Uh, PB has kicked off officially.
look for community events across the city. I really want to shout out PB staff. They do a phenomenal job. Uh I will be with
our PB delegates this evening and in celebration of all the work that they've done. Um remember that you are allowed to vote in PB anytime you are 13 years and older, regardless of uh your status. It is purposely designed to include as many Durham residents as possible. Uh I think proportionately even though our dollars aren't as large as other communities, I think we still have the largest PB program in the country.
Um and we are celebrated nationally for it. So I know PB staff will be has been working with kids voting uh to be in our schools to get our DPS students to vote so that they also get in that muscle memory of of of being used to voting and being uh participatory in our civic process. And that's why we designed uh PB the way we did. So again, PB is open.
You can vote online or you can vote at a community event. They will be everywhere. Uh and our goal is 15,000 voters. PB cycle one, we hit 10. PB
cycle 2, um we had a it was a little different because of COVID. PB cycle 3, we hit 12,000 voters. And our goal this year is 15,000 voters. So, uh, please, including council members, do your jobs and vote in PB.
Thank you. >> Thank you, council member. Council member Freeman. Good afternoon.
>> Thank you. I'll just repeat the early voting is open for municipal elections and uh we've got about 12 more days. So, get out and vote. Uh, also I wanted to just highlight that there are a number of of bond items in this um current work session which are coming forward from from staff and I do want to just say that this is what it looks like for our tax dollars to be used um to make sure that our infrastructures in place to support our growth. And then uh lastly, I want to echo uh council member Cavier's point. PB budget uh budgeting voting is open and I want to make sure
that you know that the projects are all listed on the website. Please take a look at them and then go out and choose which one should be uh selected. Thank you. That's all.
>> Thank you, council members. I'll disassociate myself with all of the announcements today. I don't have any announcements. We'll certainly defer uh to the mayor when he gets here to see if he may have any.
With that, we'll get right into our um priority items and I'll yield to our city manager if any priority priority items he may have. Good afternoon, Mr. Manager. >> Good afternoon, Mayor Prom, members of council.
Good to see you. Today, uh uh city manager's office has one priority item and just a few quick announcements. The priority item is agenda item number 25. This is contract with Paragrin Technologies, Inc.
to procure an operations management platform, the Durham City Police Department. A supplemental item was added to your agenda. Uh and then justform informationally uh wanted we have two uh presentations shown on your agenda today. The strategic plan and the 2024 bond update. Uh we're asking you to take those out of order certainly that the bond presentation would come first in uh
the presentations. The strategic plan, it was our intention that that be the last item on today's agenda and obviously you know that will take uh several hours. So just wanted to request that adjustment to the agenda and uh thank uh the council members who shouted out PB. It's we're really excited about this year's process and so we appreciate the extra um extra plug for those events.
We're excited to get that voting started. Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Manager.
At this time, I'll yield to our city attorney for any priority items she may have. Good afternoon, councelor. >> Good afternoon, Mayor Prom, members of the council. It's good to be back with you.
Um the city attorney's office has no priority items this afternoon. >> Thank you so much. And at this time, I'll yield to the clerk for any announcement. uh priority you may have.
Good afternoon, madam clerk. >> Good afternoon, Mr. Mayor, prom and council members. I did want to let you know there's a delay in the board report and I will um be bringing it forward toward the end of the meeting today.
>> Absolutely. Thank you so much uh for that. Right, colleagues, at this time now I'll read our administrative consent
items. Uh item can be pulled by any member of the council or public uh for a deeper dive. And I'll start that reading now. [clears throat] from the city clerk's office.
Item number one, approval of city council minutes. >> Mayor, I don't want to pull the item. I just want to point out um the actual day in the minutes for September need to be corrected from Monday to Tuesday. That's all >> noted.
Thank you for that. Continuing item number two, Durham Planning Commission appointment. Item number three, human relations commission appointment under departmental items audit from our audit services department. Item four, solid waste management division overtime performance audit September 2025 from budget and management services department.
Item five, FY26 through 27 budget development schedule. >> I'd like to pull that one. >> Item five is pulled. Continuing from our community safety department, item six, Robert Wood Johnson Foundation Systems for Action
Grant Project ordinance uh under environmental and street services department. Item number seven, contractsw SW-103, Street Maintenance Repairs, 2025. Item number eight, contract SW-1103C, Inspection Services for Street Maintenance Repairs, 2025. Item number nine, amendment number one to utility agreement for Eastend Connector with NC DOTU- Z001.
Item number 10, contract S SW66 bike walk sidewalk phase 1 2024 bond referendum. Item number 11, contract SW-66C inspections and ombbudsman services for new sidewalk 2024 bond referendum. 1- 2024 bond referendum. Item 13, storm water control. Item number 12 actually we have is pulled.
We have a speaker on that. Item number 13 storm water control measure maintenance SD-2025-03 to pull that one. >> Item number 13. >> Yes.
>> All right. Item number 13 is pulled from general services department. Item number 14, grant project ordinance for the North Carolina Office of State Budget and Management Directed Grant number 12241 for conservation activities to the city of Durham. I don't want to pull it.
Just want to appreciate our council for approving this moving forward. >> Duly noted. Item number fif item number 15 resolution providing approval of a multif family housing facility to be known as fyet place phase one in the financing thereof. >> I want to pull that one. >> Pulling 15.
The parks and recreation department. Item 16, transportation improvement agreement with the North Carolina Department of Transportation for the Durham to Roxboro Trail Corridor. That is pulled by a resident by a resident under a technology solutions department. Item 17, contract with car Kerasoft Technology Corporation to purchase and implement Clariti.
Okay, pull that one. 17 is pulled under our transportation department. Item 18, supplemental agreement number two, the governing agreement number 21567 with Kimley Horn and Associates, Inc. for signal timing improvements.
>> Want to pull that one. >> Item number 18 is pulled. Water Management Department. Item 19, construction award to ASJ Wilson Construction LLC for the Durham Utilities Pedigrew Storage Site Project. Item 20, construction award to Harper General Contractors, Inc. for the Glen
Road One lift station Improvements Project. >> Item number 20. Yeah, >> 20. You're pulling 20.
20 is pulled. Item number 21, contract amendment five to the professional engineering services contract with Hazen and Sawyer PC for the East Durham Water and Sewer Rehabilitation Rehabilitation and Belt Street Regional Stormwater Improvements Project. Item number 22, contract amendment number two to the professional engineering services contract with Kimley Horn and Associates, Inc. for the 2021 lift station improvements group B lift stations project contract number 18078. uh under presentations from our budget and management services department FY27 through 29 strategic plan refresh process that is slated to go two hours that will be the last presentation we receive uh from our general services department item number 24 2024 general obligation bond referendum projects uh projects progress update presentation that presentation is slated to go 20
minutes under citizens matters to be heard at one I have a card from Haley Cunningham. Uh, subject's community leadership roundt invitation. Uh, and under our technology solutions department, item number 25, contract with Paragreen Technologies, Inc. to procure an operations management platform for Durham City Police.
And that item is pulled uh by a resident uh as a resident. And that ends the reading of our published uh agenda for today, our published consent agenda. I have uh pulled items number five, 12, 13, 15, 16, 17, 18, 20, and 25. Mr.
Manager, do you concur? >> I do. >> All right, those items will pull. We'll take them in order.
First, we're going to entertain our um public speaker today, our public comment from Haley Cunningham. Is Haley here? Good afternoon. Thank you for being with us.
You'll have three minutes. Thank you. While they're getting that together, madame clerk, please note that his honor is at the deis. Good afternoon, Mr.
Mayor. >> Good afternoon, everyone. >> We're going through a pled items now.
>> How many board items do we have? >> One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10. [laughter] >> Two, three. >> How many of these are Chelsea?
No, >> it's actually nine. >> What? >> Hold on. >> Sorry.
Sure. >> Okay. >> Yes. Good afternoon.
Thank you so much. You have three minutes. >> Yeah. Thank you so much.
Um I'm Dr. Haley Cunningham. I'm an HIV provider and co-chair of the coalition to end the HIV epidemic in Durham. Um I'm just here to invite you all in person to our community leadership roundt discussion tomorrow from 9:30 until 2 at Healing with Care. Um, we're going to be bringing together researchers and clinicians from Duke and UNCC, NCCU, as well as community organizations and community members to really design and think about what we need in a system of care for those living with HIV in Durham. Um, as you all know, each year, uh, Durham receives over a million dollars in HOPA funding for housing and
support services for folks living with HIV, and over two years of that funding remains untouched. Um and so we are hoping that some of the outcome and aims of uh this round table can be to really light a fire um and discuss ways that we can utilize this funding. One thing that I ask you all to look into is that I'm worried that if this funding is not used by the end of the year uh some of it will need to be sent back. There is a deadline on how quickly we need to use these funds.
And if we have to send funds back, that jeopardizes funding down the road. if you don't use it, you lose it and we'll have to send it back to HUD, which would be really unfortunate to lose those housing funds. Um, so I ask you all to look into that to also consider and really partner with community organizations to figure out how to best allocate this funding. Um, y'all released a call for proposals uh in June uh well in May and then we were supposed to find out in June who
received that only to find out in September it had been withdrawn and we're back to the drawing board and I'm really really worried that this funding is not going to be used in time. Um, so I ask you all to to really consider coming tomorrow to hear what the community has to say and internally to look into this and see when this deadline is so that we don't have to send any money back. Thank you all. >> Dr.
Cunningham, thank you so much for the important work you do. Would you give us a time again? >> Yes, it's 9:30 until 2. Um, most of the discussion about HOPA and housing will be between 9:30 and noon.
>> Okay. >> And it's at healing with care. >> Thank you so much. It's good to see you.
Mr. Mayor, you want to assume? >> Yeah. Well, yeah, in just a second.
Dr. Tonyham, just want to thank you for the work you're doing. Um, within the next week, I believe there is an op-ed that's coming out in the Hill that I wrote about this very topic. >> Oh, wow. Um, and I'm glad that you're
here speaking on it today with the reorganization in DHS. Um, obviously this is something that's potentially on the cutting block. Uh, and it's an oped asking Congress to keep funding in place, although the reorganization suggested by President Trump has um has potentially jeopardized his funding for residents with HIV AIDS. Uh, so it'll be in the Hill and um, you shoot me an email, I can send that to you directly.
Yeah, thank you so much for writing that. And I I guess I I just want to say too that using the money we have is the best way to show that it's needed and we appreciate it. So I I hope we can allocate that money quickly. Thank you.
>> Follow up with it. >> What you got? >> First pulled items. Item number >> Oh, Cook has something to say.
>> Oh, I'm I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Forgive me. >> That's okay. Um, this is something that's come up a couple of times and I would like a at least somewhat public response to why that RFP was not why we
didn't award it in June and and what is going on with it now because I know that that deadline is approaching. I know we've had some issues with um hapo funding in the past and so a report would be appreciated. >> Yep. >> We'll be happy to bring that forward and our staff will be at the summit tomorrow and we'll be represented.
>> Thank you. >> Thank you. All right, colleagues, anyone else on that? Right, Council Member Cook, I'll yield to you for item number five.
>> I'm sorry, Council Kab Cabierro, forgive me. >> I'm just flagging and I don't know yet, but I'm likely going to be out of town that Friday, um, February 13th. >> Okay. Was that it?
>> That's it. I just wanted to go ahead and flag. >> Gotcha. >> Thank you.
>> Absolutely. All right. Item number 12. We have a a speaker, Brad Johnson.
Hey, sir. How are you? >> Yeah. If you'll approach, you'll have three minutes.
Thank you for being with us this afternoon. >> Thank you for the opportunity. Um, I'm one of the five uh residents who lives on Brutin Road. Uh, I don't know if any of you have ever been down the road. You
probably would have only gotten there if you mistakenly turned down this road, but um uh there's only three houses with driveways on this on Brutin Road. There's only two addresses on the road. And so I could only speak for the five people who live there, but there are hundreds of people that use Brutin Road, as a walkway, as a passage uh in our neighborhood. People walk their dogs.
Uh they walk with their children. There's some classes from I assume it's the local elementary school that use it to run laps back and forth. I'm not even sure what they're doing, but it's sort of cool. Um uh my home has a kitchen and the sink overlooks the um the gravel road.
And so it's at it's at eye level. And I see these people all the time. I see older people who are out there trying to get in shape. I see younger people who are just
out for a stroll. It's not just a road. It's actually just a passageway in our neighborhood. and the number of people far outweigh the number of cars that come down the road.
I'm afraid if it is paved, what'll happen is it'll no longer be able to be used the way it has been, which is more of a pathway than a road, and cars will go up and down it a lot faster, and I'm afraid it'll become unsafe for those people. Um, I really don't know, after looking at the agenda, I don't know if it's technically feasible to pull Brutin Road out of the collection of roads. Uh, I'm not opposed to uh paving the gravel roads at Durham. I know there's a lot of good reasons to do it.
I'm only speaking to this one specific road. Um, I feel like paving Brutin Road is not in the best interest of the citizens of Durham and it's not a benefit to the neighborhood surrounding Brutin Road. So, that was the only thing I had.
>> Thank you so much for being with us today. Appreciate your comments. Absolutely. colleagues, anyone wanted to >> where is it located again?
>> It's right off Anderson Street. It's sort of between >> uh it's close to Duke. It's 3/4 of a mile. >> Okay.
>> From Duke and it's between Anderson and more or less academy sort of. It doesn't go all the way through. >> He's talking about >> Yeah. >> Okay.
>> Thank you, sir. Okay. Go ahead. >> All right, colleagues.
That was item number 12. We'll move now to item number 13, which was pulled by council member Cook. Good afternoon, Mr. Mayor, Mayor Pro
Tim, uh, council members, my name is Antoine Williams with the environmental and street services department. Uh, here to answer questions on, uh, item number 13. >> Thank you. So, um, this is maintenance, as I read it, that we normally have done in house.
Um, and the memo actually addressed a little bit about why we were moving to contracting on this. uh it talks about new staff roles and responsibilities and I was just hoping you could elaborate on what those are and and sort of why we've moved to this particular work being contractor work as opposed to in-house. >> Sure. So, a lot of the the SEMs that are maintained by our street maintenance stormwater street maintenance department, they've done a great job over the years doing that. A lot of these devices are are specialty devices where it's not something that's typically um considered routine storm water maintenance operations and along with the staffing needs down with uh
within the stormwater maintenance division. Uh the need was seen to move to contracting this work out so that we could get it done uh in a more timely fashion. Um, also taking in consideration the the specialty work with maintaining some of these devices um were the reasons to move towards contracting the work out. >> Um, so will Dragonfly do all 40 of the storm water control measures?
>> Dragonfly will do all 40. Yes. >> Okay. And how much of that is currently being done by staff?
All of it. >> Yes. For those 40. Yes.
>> All 40. Okay. And um what are the other kind of things that will fill that time and energy? I'm just curious like what we're diverting staff time to. >> So you mean what will staff do now that they're not responsible for maintaining these devices? >> Well, it sounds like it was taking up kind of a lot of time and you were talking about timeliness and it sounds
like we'll be able to have a contractor would do these things more quickly. there'll be more uh there was like kind of a specialization right and so it sounds like it was probably taking up quite a bit of our in-house time so I'm just curious about the restructuring there >> well I think a lot of the time was just due to I would say lack of staff to be able to perform the work >> I see >> so now we have this contract [snorts] in place where we can these devices have to have routine maintenance uh each year so we'll have a this contract in place to be able to provide those reports reports that are due to continuing to maintain the city's storm water permit for uh keeping those devices operational. >> Cool. Okay, that makes sense to me.
And this was this RFP was put out twice. Is that right? >> That's right. >> Was there any change between the first and the second outside of that?
We got more responses in the second one or no, we got the same number of responses in the second one if I remember correctly. >> We did get the same number. We got two responses on the first. So the reason it
was put back out is because those responses were considered u they they weren't completely responsive. So u there were some information we asked for within those RFPs that we didn't get from the um the different contractors. So we we readvertised we added some additional information to try to clarify what the contract was intended to be for. And um with that second advertisement um the submitts came back complete and we were able to make an award based on that.
>> Awesome. Okay, that all makes sense. Thank you so much. Those are my questions.
>> Thank you, Council Member Collies. Anyone else on item 13? >> All right, then we'll move on to item number 15, which was pulled by Council Member Freeman. I'll yield.
>> Thank you. Just a question mainly around the naming of the project. I understand that there was an update for the location uh something around the villages of Hay Thai.
>> Yes. >> And I just wanted to know if this if it would be possible to make sure that that's updated um because it shouldn't be called a failed project, a failed private project. Um it was actually homes to people who lived on Feville Street. And so if it were referred to as Feedville Street Apartments or the new name, it would be a whole lot better going forward to leave the Federal Place behind.
>> Understood. Matt Walker, housing enabling personel. I'm just offer an opinion. >> Understood.
>> You got a question. Council member, >> I just wanted to know if you were aware of the update of the name of the location. >> The village is at Hai. Yes.
>> Okay. >> Yes. And is there a reason why you're not using that name for the project because it said it will go forward as faith fed place? >> I I understood I think um [clears throat] and uh Mr. Snell from the housing authority should be on the line. Uh the name was recently updated I
believe and he can clarify that um because of how this resolution is worded. It's worded as uh Fedville Say it again. It's >> It's worded as fyville. >> Yes.
Fyville. Uh phase one. >> Feet place. I'm sorry.
Feet place phase one. >> Okay. And so what will it take for it to not be [clears throat] worded as fy place phase one >> because we're going to hope that fyet place doesn't continue into this. >> Director snail I believe.
Is he is he on? >> Yeah. We'll we'll allow doc um director snail to >> Mr. Director, can you hear me?
Uh good afternoon, sir. Did you hear the question? >> Mayor, mayor pro city council. Um there there is no technical reason u for fairy place to continue as the uh name for this project. that was the initial name
that was utilized for all of the planning purposes and submitting the applications um before we had gotten the approval and and gone through the branding process with our community advisory group. Um that happened probably about 45 days ago where we settled on the new branding. Um I think in some references already with the city we made the city um made Mr. Walker and his staff avail um we made them made the made it known to them of the branding for the project and so uh for the record it is the villages at Hayai um and we will make that reference in all documents going forward.
>> Thank you. >> I just want to know if that's okay for your office to also update as well. >> It is. It is. Um you you can imagine we have a slash now. So
>> gotcha. Council members it. Thank you so much. >> Thank you.
All right. We'll move on to item 16 which was pulled by a member of the public. Chris Pearlstein if you're here. >> Good afternoon sir.
You'll have three minutes. There we go. Um I should actually know this right from all the BPAC meetings. Um so I'm going to assume that every single one of you guys is going uh to support the um the rail trail.
Um but I wanted to uh talk about some aspects uh of why kind of annoyed a little bit or frustrated I guess uh how we talk about this sometimes. Um, and I was going to apologize to Council Member Wrist because he's heard this uh uh rant quite a bit uh at BPAC meetings. Um, but apparently he maybe caught wind of this and decided just not to even show up for it. So, uh, might want to take his example next time. Um, so to start off
with, this is listed under a parks and recreation uh, uh, department thing, and they're great. This has nothing to do with them doing anything wrong. U, but it sort of sets a tone about how we view these trails, right? um we view them as recreation and uh you've probably heard me talk about it before, but I don't have a car and I do this by choice.
Um and so for me, when I use the American Tobacco Trail, for example, it is transportation. Um I do have fun biking on it. Um but I'm doing it to go visit family members. I'm doing it to go um shopping, to get my groceries, uh to go to BPAC meetings.
Uh and so what I hope we can start doing is thinking about this from that perspective. It's it's not just uh for fun. It's also a transportation option, a lowcost transportation option that doesn't involve being required to use a car. Uh so, you know, I sit there and I I look at the cost of a bike versus a car. And if you've seen me around town, you've probably seen that I have this ridiculously large cargo ebike, right? And that lets me go to Lowe's, pick up
some lumber, do all kinds of crazy things. Um, it's a little bit of a homebrew thing, but if you look at a retail cost of that bike, brand new, it's $6,000. It's a lot of money for a bicycle, right? But if you go look at the average cost today of a used car, it's $25,000, right?
So, this is 120th of that. And that's before we even talk about registration, uh, insurance, license, all that kind of thing. So, this is the affordable option. And transportation makes up 20% of household costs.
And so the greenway is actually sort of like your affordable housing, right? This isn't something that's gentrification or displacement. It actually fights those things. It gives people an option to cut those expense expenses and make that lifestyle more affordable.
Um so I really support this and I hope you'll think about it in those those those ways. And if you look at the the where this greenway is going to go, it's actually going to go by uh several schools. It's going to go by the Bragtown Library. It goes by a lot of publicly owned properties. Um, there's Durham Housing Authority properties here, there's city-owned properties,
there's county owned properties, and there's even federal properties owned here, right? And so, we can build this while also giving access to folks by putting affordable housing in these places. Um, so I think this represents a great opportunity to actually fight displacement, uh, to fight gentrification, to provide us all with a safer option, uh, to move around. Thank you, >> Chris.
Thank you so much for being with us, >> Council Member Freeman. >> Thank you. I really appreciate those comments and I would just add that it also is a route that'll be available for folks traveling to and from Pson County. So it's about 8 miles into Pson County.
Um it is it spans about 18 miles which is pretty large and I do I do agree that it should include some transportation aspect of planning around it and so I'm hoping that transportation staff is coordinating with parks erect as well. >> Thank you much colleagues. Anyone else? All right, we'll move on to item number 17, [clears throat] which was pulled by council member Baker. I'll yield. >> Thank you.
Yeah, so this is um currently we use uh LDO land development office uh for this technology. Uh the staff report says that recently support has degraded significantly to ensure the city of Durham can continue to manage its development activity effectively. A new permitting and application system is necessary. The new system is clarity.
Um can you just talk a little bit about uh the the degradation of the service quality under the uh existing con uh contract that we have. Um any changes in uh cost between LBO and Clarity and then also if there are any annual costs associated with this. >> I definitely will. Um good afternoon mayor um mayor promp city council.
Um, so what we're looking at is the the current technology that we currently have in place uh to support the LDO is a tool that was here probably maybe 15 plus years ago. It's long passage. It's
life of expectancy and it is a system that can no longer we can't really do any type of updates to it. So there's a lot of new data that you used to take in previously that is not done. Uh we recently encountered an issue um unbeknownst to us at the time where the county's tax office upgraded one of their systems. They need to change the schema and what that means is like the columns of of all the data that comes over was changed and it was different from what we were currently using.
So that took a lot of effort to be able to rework things so that the information that was previously able to be pulled could be accessed by staff. And that's something that we're still dealing with now. So that system um it is completely customized and propri proprietary system that we can't make any updates to. The ownership has passed maybe four or five or six different companies just over the last 10 to 12 years.
So we we can't really do anything else to that. The goal is to move to this new system. Um
clarity is the name of the solution. It's actually built on a Salesforce platform. Um, so a lot of municipalities and counties across the country also use it as a 311 system um, because of the integration capabilities. So we'll be using it for inspections, planning, code enforcement, and this is also a city county tool.
Um, and luckily the the tech searchcharge fund that we currently have budget for is what's essentially paying for this. So this is the fees that we charge to actually be able to pay for this system. So, in a sense, it's paying for itself and it's doing what it's supposed to do. 8 million, I want to say it's around two and two two and a half million to actually implement it. 4 million. Then you're going to of course have some additional costs that may be for the project management and
other support. So, that's how we get to that five-year contract amount. >> Okay, that's great. And is this more expensive, less expensive than the current system?
Are we paying more for something that's providing a better service? >> Yeah, so currently the only thing that we're paying because again, this system is so old. It it's on prim. We own it, right?
Uh we pay a annual support cost which is like $49,000 a year. $49,999 a year. And really the vendor still offers limited support. Like if something breaks, they'll try to help if they can.
They'll have like maybe one or two dedicated staff to that. But that that's basically it. Um in our weekly in our maintenance plans, we recently made sure that we got a change to reboot the system at least on a weekly basis at least just to try to alleviate some of the stress from um some of our operation departments. They utilize that system.
Sometimes things get tied up. So operationally it's definitely needed. Okay, great. And the county already uses
this or are they also transitioning with us? >> They are transitioning with us. We So, and I'd like to be add some clarity to this and I know our departments have changed a little so excuse me if if I'm not um exactly correct, but it used to be city county inspections which is building safety um planning. Uh we have the TSGIS which is city county funded which sits within TS but we're we're all co-unding these departments and these divisions and these services.
So it's it's all jointly owned. For the most part we've been in charge of the ownership and the management of it but they have a lot of their data that comes from like the tax parcels that comes into the system. >> All right. Thank you.
That's it for me. Thanks. >> Thank you council member colleagues. Anyone else on this item?
All right. All right, then we'll move on to item number 18, which was pulled by council member Freeman. I'll yield.
>> Just a note. I Hold on. >> Good afternoon, Mayor, Mayor Prom, and members of council. Sean Eaggan for the Department of Transportation.
>> Thank you. And I love the tie. >> Thank you. I um I just wanted to just make sure that we were speaking to some of the time signaling um in relation to uh people with disabilities and making sure because I noticed there are couple of lights around downtown that are a little quick and um making sure that whomever this the contractor is is also um building if you're building into your plan the conversation around people with disabilities then it'll end up in the work.
And so I didn't see that in here and I just wanted to point that out. >> So um that's definitely a a major uh priority for us. Some of the steps that we've been taking to address u the needs of people with disabilities, particularly pedestrians with disabilities, is to add what's called a leading pedestrian interval. So when the
traffic signal is red for the cars, uh before it turns green for the cars, it'll turn green for the pedestrians. It gives them a chance to get out into the intersection before cars start turning across that intersection and it it increases the amount of crossing time uh that people have because different folks move at different speeds especially if they're using a mobility device. Uh they'll be moving across that crosswalk at a slower pace. So that leading pedestrial interval gives them an advantage uh at the outset u and then gives them more time overall to get across the street.
And then one of the other initiatives that we're working on is to have audible pedestrian signals uh at our traffic signals. So you've probably heard it here at City Hall Plaza where it beeps and it tells you um that um you shouldn't walk u or and then now it's uh it's safe to cross uh Mangum Street here at City Hall Plaza. So, uh, as we make traffic signal improvements, we're making sure to add those leading
pedestrian intervals when we're, uh, reprogramming a traffic signal, a pedestrian signal. Um, and then, uh, we're also we have a parallel program and effort to make sure that we're adding those audible pedestrian signals. >> And these will go beyond downtown, right? >> Yes.
So, we have them all over the city. Uh but we continue to work as we uh add more uh traffic signals to get uh uh as many signals as possible equipped uh with both the leading pedestrian interval and the audible pedestrian signal. >> Thank you. >> Thank you council member colleagues.
Anyone else on this item? >> All right, then moving right along. We'll move to item number 20 which which was pulled by council member Baker. I'll yield.
My my apologies. >> Good afternoon, mayor, mayor proton, members of council. Don Gley, water management.
>> Welcome. Uh thanks for thanks for coming. Um so I just wanted to pull this one. Uh the staff report talks about um needed upgrades to meet future capacity requirements and to bring the lift stations into compliance with the current uh city standards.
a sort of growth management question and also a maintenance question. So I just wanted to ask specifically about this one. Um is this associated with what what kind of anticipated growth are we looking at here when it comes to this particular lift station? Um what are the factors that went into deciding if there was going to be anticipated growth in this area?
Um, and um, are are there particular geographic areas that would be served or could be served by by the lift station? So, if we said we're we're going to uh contract and upgrade this lift station, does that expand the area that can be developed in the future? >> Okay, I'll try to handle those one at a time. Um, the biggest reason that the
the driver for this project was the actual existing station itself. It had degraded over time. the wet well itself was in poor condition. Um the configuration within the within the dry well which is where the pumps and the motors are were at the end of their useful life.
So we were going to be looking at replacing all of them. Um we also evaluated whether the existing style of lift station is appropriate or is there a better style of lift stations that we've kind of moved to um which is easier to maintain. So that was the big drivers. So to do the work, whenever we do the work, we look at do we replace what's back or do we have an opportunity when we're doing the work to look at future needs.
So that got folded into the project to be able to look at the whole geographic area. We have a new, you know, comp plan. So we we took that into consideration into the design work of the new pumps and motors and electrical systems. um it doesn't
increase the area that's currently served or intended to serve by this lift station, but the as I said the underlying driver was the fact that the existing station was in poor condition. >> Okay, that's helpful. Okay, so the the driver was uh maintenance and improving uh the degraded quality of of the existing lift station >> and then looking at the comprehensive plan and and aligning the capacity of the lift station to expectations in the comprehensive plan. >> Right.
And currently that area is doesn't see a lot of development at this time. But you know that that can shift at any given moment. So >> would you say that um following the this this uh this work that um there there would be I mean there would be increased capacity for for development in that area. Correct.
>> Um there there was existing capacity already at the station. So that wasn't holding any development back. This just ensures that there is that capacity going forward. Thank you, >> Council Member Cook.
>> Thank you. Um, I actually had more questions about the RFP process. >> So, I saw this one, like one that we were just talking about, had a secondary RFP process because there were only two respondents in the first one. Did y'all change things between the first and second?
>> We did not. >> To to open the initial time, we need three biders >> and since we didn't get the three biders, we had to revertise. and it was the same time frame and we just got double the amount the second time. >> A lot of it's timing because what other work is going on in the area if they're competing for >> this one project that may be more lucrative to the pool of contractors >> and that bid was taken in and awarded.
So now they realize they're not going to get that work. " So, we're we're seeing that pretty consistently where if we have we have to go back out for bids because we didn't have enough bids the second time, we could get just the one or we could get multiple ones. It's timing with other work going on in the area and the contractors.
>> Interesting. Okay, I'm going to log that for the future, but that is fascinating. Um, just >> as a side note, >> for our very large projects, we reach out to our um neighboring communities. >> That's what I was Yeah.
to to understand what really large projects are. We our project potentially would be key competing against, right? >> And we are in constant communication with each other because >> we don't want to flood the market with >> we don't want to flood the market and >> everybody might go after one project and everybody else is high and dry. So, got >> um we're doing that on a regular basis.
>> That makes sense to me. Um I saw that the lowest bidder um did not meet our standards. Didn't wasn't able to show good faith effort. Uh so we went to the second highest bidder.
Do we do the full um kind of scheme of understanding if they can meet this good faith? >> Yes. >> Before we move on to look at the next highest bidder. >> Correct. >> Okay, that makes sense too. Um and then can you just talk a little bit more
about like what is included in that good faith exemption and and what was what was uh attractive about Harper general? that is um that good faith asset assessment is done by the um uh finance department and I don't I see Tim and I don't know if he can putting him on the spot because I know his staff that does that is not here today so but he might be able to send some insight and we can maybe provide some background information if >> and it maybe doesn't need to be specific to this one but I am curious like what what we're looking for there and and what things are what we're asking for these contractors >> a 10 floor finance department and so that is a very good question and so I don't get it wrong. I would uh I can get you that information. I will Okay.
We'll we'll get that information on the overall process and how we work it. >> Okay. Thank you. Those are my questions.
Thanks, >> Council. Mr. Mayor, did you have a >> Yeah, I um So, do we have any indicators that there will be more uh intentions for growth?
Do we know if any property owners are expecting to uh potentially sell land or or build out there? >> And I'm asking because >> in this specific area >> um I'm not aware of any um current development plans that are in the in >> and I guess I'm asking if we if we looked at that or we're just only looking at the the uh just the maintenance as an indicator to spend what we're spending. if we're going to go down there, you know, I I just prefer not to have to go back and expand, >> right? >> Uh because all of a sudden neighbors, you know, as we all know, uh admittedly or not, development starts as a private enterprise.
And whenever we're talking lift stations, memories get short. Uh before I was here, someone talked about a lift station in Southeast Durham, and now it's a surprise to so many people that there's development. I don't want to deal with the same thing here in this area, right? >> Uh I don't want it to be a an intentional surprise or a, you know, a a
later claimed surprise, but we're talking about a lift station for the sake of capacity >> and this is being replaced or or because of maintenance. Um, >> correct. >> So, I'm assuming that it's going to handle the same capacity that we currently have. um is going to handle the capacity we currently have plus what the current land use with the current comprehensive plan indicates for that area.
>> Right. Okay. I wanted to ask that question on the record because if I ever need to go back and pull this day there start there's a bunch of development that starts happening out there. Uh and this this lift station is going to be brand new.
Um, and people start seeing that as a value ad. I don't want them coming to city council say you're doing XYZ because of, you know, um, I don't know. I'm just trying to clarify the whole development conversation. >> Right.
Thank you. >> Sure. >> Thank you, colleagues. Anyone else on
this item? >> All right. Then we'll we'll move to our last pulled item, which is item number 25. And we do have a a speaker and neighbor who wants to speak.
Raina Reno. Good afternoon. Thank you for being with us. You have three minutes.
>> Yes. Good afternoon. Thank you. Uh my name is Raina Reneno.
I'm a resident and a member of the Have a Heart Coalition. Um I'm here to record my concern regarding Durham's plans to procure a paragrain operations management platform. I reviewed the city's IT governance business case for its real-time crime crime center as this details some of paragines's role in the supporting documents for this agenda item. Considering the potential impact on the civil rights of every person in Durham and especially our rights to privacy, I think it is alarming that uh this the public is not being actively informed and consulted regarding the adoption of these systems. The business case argues that the RTCC, which
includes paragrain adoption, will make Durham a safer community and an innovative and high performance organization. I'd like to share some of why these claims won't hold true. As exhibit A shows, the paragrain platform will consolidate data from police reports, body cameras, digital evidence, ALPRs, call records, mobile pings, and social media. These multiple sources were will detail where people are in real time, what they share on social media, and any past and present interactions with law enforcement.
The latter of which disproportionately negatively impacts black, brown, and poor people. It enables DBD and all law enforcement agencies looped into the system to track, record, and profile members of the public in real time, throwing any opaces of a right to privacy in the trash. The public is given no opportunity to consent to such use of our data. And because this data can and will be shared across agencies, including by federal agencies such as ICE, adoption of these management systems invite horrors we have not yet conceived of. In other words, this
integration of data systems and the platform for data sharing does not create a safer community, especially considering the rising authoritarianism of our time. Cities across the country are rejecting mass surveillance and mass data extracting companies for these reasons. Just this year, Charlottesville rejected paragine. Denver and Austin rejected flock and Nashville rejected fus.
Decades of science have already shown us that the best way to reduce crime is to invest in people. Policing and especially policing enhanced by tech is not the answer. spending public funds on tech for the purpose of surveilling every member of the public and dispatching law enforcement in response to every digital whisper of a crime while neglecting to invest in providing that same public with adequate food, education, housing, child care and other essentials is cruel, not innovative and high performing. Durham should absolutely not hastily enter this pellereen contract. Our city has already been on the right track as it has expanded heart programming, adopted the fourth amendment workplace resolution,
and sought other ways to protect its public from unconstitutional and harmful law enforcement practices to ensure we can all safely engage in public life. Adopting the Pelgrain platform would not only be a step backwards, but upend all the progress we've made so far. Thank you. >> Thank you so much for being with us this afternoon.
Um uh for the record, we do have uh two resource uh people on hand for this item uh as well today. Um if our resource folk want to respond and then we'll open up to the council if there's a chief, are you uh okay? Awesome. >> Respond to >> if she'd like if she like if she has a response or she can stand by for questions.
>> Yeah, I do. Did you want to respond? Did you >> Sure. I will.
Um so I'll I'll just start off. We do have um resource staff here um and I also have some of my staff that were on um the um our initial committee that we set up for Real Time Crime Center. I think most importantly what I really want to um kind of make known is
that this software um actually is not going to be bringing in anything we are not currently using in our investigations. So Paragrin is I think of it like a house. So your foundation and then you put everything into um into the house to build it or Google. So Paragan is like our Google.
Google is not by alone. It's its own engine, right? You have to pour into it. And so what we're pouring into it is data that we currently maintain, but it's in a disjointed way.
So, if an investigator um is on scene at a crime, um that investigator will have to do canvasing, then we'll have to go back to the office. We'll have to consult with our intel staff, our crime analysis staff. Um we'll have to look through field contacts and information, which can take quite a while, especially when you're looking at investigating violent
crime. Um and then we'll have to selfisolate all of those data points uh versus being able to through the real time um crime crime center utilizing paragin um will be able to input information specifically for that crime that he or she or they are investigating for. This is not uh software that anyone can just come in and um and just wantingly u Google anyone right or wantingly look up anyone. Um it is u paragrin and all of our software is guided by sis um requirements.
There is a strict audit trail of who is using and who is accessing. It is also not blatantly or or or open to outside entities to come in and access our data. Um there has to be like it is now um full CES compliance
and those individuals that want to access data are would have to be from law enforcement agencies would have to show and verify that they actually are working an active criminal case um and tie it into one of our cases. So there has to be a relation. Again, this is what we currently do. This just allows us to do it quicker.
um it allows us to have case resolutions faster and apprehend and identify named suspects um a little bit quicker than what we are currently doing it. So um I'll just say we do have um a representative from Paragrin. I think that's also online um because I'm not great with names. Um Phil Castanova is online and I have staff here so you all know Mr.
Jason She is here as well. um as well as TS staff >> and chief made this point, but I'd just like to emphasize it. There there are no new investigative tools, no new
surveillance tools associated with this. This is a platform that searches data that the Durham Police Department already has. Uh it does not enhance uh surveillance or or collect broadly information that the police department does not already collect. This is not a a sweeping tool of any type.
This is a tool that that works from the evidence andor the data that the department already collects. It just makes our human investigators uh give gives them better and more timely access to the information we already have. And I and I do just want to add we are we understand and hear the community's concerns which is why we work so very hard to ensuring that everything that we um we bring on board as investigative tools are not going to be abused not going to be misused and certainly not going to be used to victimize our residents. >> Thank you Chief and Mr. Manager. Uh
Council Member Baker I think you had wanted to chime in. And then council copier. >> Yeah, thank you. I was I was going to ask just kind of for the high level background that you just gave us and I appreciate that.
I do I did get a flood of uh messages uh specifically regarding um this technology and also the company um itself. Um, I'm wondering if it's if it's time-sensitive, if there's a possibility of having some sort of town hall or or an opportunity for a back and forth with um concerned residents to answer questions. I don't want to be alarmist about something that I don't fully understand at this point. Um, but I also want to want to um give space for people who have concerns, including concerns that may very well be legitimate.
Um and so I wonder if you'd be open to something like that. >> Of course. Um definitely as as in fact today and the timing is is actually works really well. I have got a uh meeting um in the park today with uh
Durham Beyond Policing and so we'll kind of start working through that um and peeling back some layers and happy to answer questions um whatever those questions might be. And I've always said if I don't know the answer, I know somebody that knows the answer. Um, so I I definitely want to want to be able to facilitate that. So more than happy to.
>> And is that a meeting that is open or or are you suggesting that you're open to those kinds of meetings? >> I am I am open to those kinds of meetings and certainly today at, you know, 4:00. Happy to Okay. >> everyone.
It's it's at Hillside Park today. >> Okay. Yes. And could I uh ask chief and I I think you're basically offering this but to clarify will you specifically bring up at this meeting the paragrin software uh give them an opportunity in Durham beyond policing to ask whatever questions they may have about it and how it's used so that ju just to verify for council member Baker that that will you will proactively discuss that with Durham beyond policing today when you meet.
>> Yes, we will. I would also just suggest um maybe we can add another meeting, maybe something next week. I think 400 PM today, you know, in two hours would would be short notice for um the for the broader public, >> of course. >> So, if it's possible to to put another meeting out um next week, sometime later, maybe in the latter part of the week, >> of course.
Yeah. And we can do several. I mean, so it just doesn't have to be one. So, we can do several at different times throughout the day.
um and we can we can pull that together and just provide just some dates and if you can join that's fine. If you can't that's you know we'll we'll try and accommodate as many people as possible. >> Okay. Thank you.
>> Thank you council. Council member Cabier. >> Thank you. I appreciate it.
Um I'm going to ask I mean certainly this needs to be placed on GBA but I'm going to actually ask for an additional cycle. I would also like um uh police officials to meet with immigration attorneys. I want to understand the intersection with federal enforcement. Uh I understand what you're saying. I think right I'm not worried about RPD. I I I'm rarely worried about
RPD. I'm worried about everybody else. Uh and so uh I really need to understand that intersection very very clearly and I need to have that intersection with the folks who are in the courtrooms figuring out what they're seeing and how this data is being used. And I don't think that now to November 3rd is going to or whatever is going to give us the opportunity to really have this conversation in the public.
Um, I would like staff to send me more information on who the owner is. I would also und like to have um the resource person. I would like to have a better understanding of what they how are they interacting with AI. Um, I got a lot.
So, I'm going to be following up and I I not going to be at this point I don't think that we can get it done between now and November. So, or I think it's November 3rd. Is that our first uh Yeah. So, I just want to flag that for for staff. I have I've sat in a I'm one of the like I've sat in a lot of the tech conversations um across the country with a local electeds in these communities that are being raised who
have turned these kinds of contracts down from license plate readers. Not because I again I think that I trust our law enforcement to follow the law uh to do what's right and to protect people's civil rights right now. I don't trust others uh and I don't we can be preempted at any time both at the state and the federal level. Thank you.
Council member Cook. Um I was actually going to ask for the exact same thing. So I just want to echo everything that my colleague has said. I also have a whole list of questions and do not think that I will have time to get them.
Um I was worried about some of things that council member Capiro uh has stated. I'm also concerned about in this time of like over litigation what the policies are. Like I understand that we're not adding anything new, but what we are doing is accumulating all of our things into a third party uh house as you called it, but um what are their policies when they get uh when they get into litigation? Are they turning over every opposing parties come straight to the city? That there these are all policies that companies have developed
and I without seeing these have a really hard time having faith in this. Um, also, um, I know there's like some opt-in and opt out options for some of these things. So, I'd like to have more clarity around what those are. Um, and, uh, there seem to be palunteer ties.
And then the I think the other piece of this that feels particularly harmful in this moment is that we we are like in weird times as a city government because we are trying to maintain in a way that like supports values and protects the citizens of the city um against a federal government that does not share our values in that regard. Um, and so when we have people coming to to us with concerns and we're addressing those concerns in a belittling or patronizing way, which I know a lot of people came and were concerned about Palunteer. Yes, this is not Palunteer, but yes, there is overlap and that was known and should have been known. And so it feels like we are we're not doing a good job of
harboring trust around this. And so I feel like it's already sort of gotten off on a bad foot. And so for me, I want to I want to extend that time. want to make sure that people have chance to have their voices heard and that we get the information that we need as well.
And can I just add if it if it I the Palunteer connection, none of my staff knew about Palunteer until it popped up on Reddit and I worked very hard to try and correct the disinformation that was out there about the Durham Police Department having those kinds of meetings with Palunteer which is you know it's it it is which also what led to you know what's going to happen today is a meeting with Durham Beyond Policing is to further have that conversation but certainly Certainly, we are not and would never um try and do a bait and switch. And I think we've proven that. And I and I just want you all to know that we would not. Um we do have the con the contract.
There are certain clauses within the contract. Um but certainly and I know y'all got a lot of stuff on your plate today. Like I said, I do have
the par um paragrin rep um on um on the line also. And if you'd like, we could probably avail the rep to we could probably avail the rep as well on these meetings. >> Oh, >> would that help? >> Yeah.
And I just want to say that I, like my council member, have full faith in your office. This is not a concern of y'all. Um, and I don't think that it was an intentional bait and switch or anything like that, but I'm just saying that I feel like we're already sort of starting off on the wrong foot with this. Um, and so I want to be really diligent about how we respond.
Um, and I think the rep being on in the world, I always gesture to the ceiling like that they're in the ceiling. Okay. Um, that them being on, they're hearing our requests and I'd like to have I'd like to have responses in writing to those so that they're accessible to the public and we can share them. >> We'll do.
Thank you. >> Did you want to chime in? >> We'll get back to you. >> Would love for uh, council members. First of all, I did want to make clear uh, we do have folks available today for
people who had questions today. uh definitely hear the request for this to come back and so prepared to do that. It would be helpful. In addition, we will we will capture the questions we heard today, but I'd ask if council could uh has specific questions you could send me.
I'd like to make sure that any future agenda item on this is specifically responsive to any questions you have. So, I'll ask uh preferably in the next 48 hours or so so we can be responsive. if you could uh generate a list of questions, we'll make sure that the uh the vendor, the police department, technology solutions department, and and city leadership um all have a chance to review and fully respond to those. Um and so uh I would suggest then that that uh this item rather than be settled on GBA be referred back to staff and we'll place it on a future agenda.
Um it it um but I also wanted to make clear if you had questions today, we also have people who are available to answer questions today and that's at your discretion. >> Thank you, Mr. Manager. I'm going to yield to council member Freeman. I I think I did in fact hear a council member ask for another cycle. So we'll
address that. Council member Freeman, I yield. >> I thank you. I I I appreciate um Manager Ferguson's comment.
And I do want to associate myself with both council member Cook and Cabierro's comments on the company and especially just knowing like I don't think it's derm centric the concern but I do think that the data and I I'm just looking it up um the ties between palrren and planetar and it looks like they both started in 2003 but paragrin seems to have some US securities issues so I just just >> that's a different company okay different name different Just want to be clear. >> Just want to make sure that that um yeah that the back side of this anytime there's AI involved I think that the additional questions around the opt-in opt out and all that should be check boxes. I I think it's clear we've crossed the threshold of uh council uh to to put this off for another cycle. But I still want to if there's any more questions specifically about the item. Mr. Mayor um uh Council Member Cabaro then your
honor. I just again want our police, we all know where you are and what you stand for and where your police department is. And so I just want to lean in again just for the public that this is never uh and I think that this is unanimous on this council. This is not um aimed at you or the department.
Um we know that you are just trying to do everything possible to help keep Durham safe. Um and I think many of us have been in enough other communities to see um what bad policing looks like and what good policing looks like. Uh and so I I just want to emphasize that in this moment. Um uh and and say all of my questions are around the tech itself and the company and not uh police practice of the Durham PD.
Thank you. Yeah, I you know about a year ago I would you I would sound very different. Um but after um our current president and seeing the way Amazon and Meta and all of these companies just literally
took a knee and bowed down to the king. I um I'm much more cautious. I'm glad to hear my colleagues ask for uh a town hall because I think that's exactly what we do need. Uh there has been a lot of disinformation uh just last week.
Thank you chief for addressing the Reddit situation. I hate trying to govern the city based on Reddit. Um I was having dinner with uh former mayor Bill Bell and his wife uh Jim Goodman and his wife and the folks who run DPAC when Farad Ali and his wife, the folks who got DPAC off the ground and security came in and they said, you know, uh mayor, there is about 15 people outside protesting. they think that you're having a private dinner with the owners of Palunteer.
" And just casually, folks are just lying. They're just putting information out there. And you know, folks get worked up and they came to protest the mayor having a secret dinner with Palunteer. I
didn't even know what Palunteer was. So I had to look it up, you know, and then I realized that, you know, what I said to the manager this morning, I was like, "You mean to tell me we have a security company that starts with the word P, start with the letter P, you know, [laughter] so it's extremely sensitive. So I I want to make sure that we can engage. Um, I also don't like, you know, being an elected official that has to take every decision back to a community meeting and make the decision there first and then come back here and make a decision.
But I think there are some things where we make an exception. Uh what I don't want to happen, I don't, and this is why I do want community meetings. Um I don't want a bunch of folks who don't experience the daily issues of crime talking about black and brown folks and what they need to do. So, I I believe in a community meeting, those black folks and those brown folks that are overly represented in the data of criminal offenses, their families, I would like to hear from those folks directly
rather than just a very engaged populace speaking on behalf of that is really frustrating because I I I it's really hard for me to go to a parent and say, I we just have to wait. we have to wait until there's political will to do XYZ. And so I appreciate us doing our due diligence especially in this time. Uh but I want to make sure that we are sensitive to that.
And it's really easy to talk for someone and not listen to the people who are experiencing this on a daily basis. There's a lot of misinformation. There's a lot of disinformation. Shame on the people who are doing that.
It does not help our community. So this is a serious uh it's a sensitive matter that I hope that we will uh that I know unanimously we're taking very seriously. Um but one thing I won't stand for is you know uh the the oversp speakak or over representing uh representation of folks and the folks that are most impacted are not even at the table a community meeting. Thank you uh council member Baker for proposing that uh first that this will give us that opportunity and uh I I'm I'm also
not going to be an alarmist uh but I think that the concern is very clear uh the data is so easily you know uh viewed and snatched and used uh considering how um I mean we're living in almost a lawless state right now and so I think that we need to be very sensitive to that uh from you know data being shared with immigration to you know um folks just feeling comfortable. And I know like as we've stated, this is not a new technology that's going to add new capabilities outside of what we're already doing. This is a matter of being able to quickly search the information that we already have in house rather than paying an investigator to go to each segment of the case or each component and then have to bring those things together. So, I appreciate what it does, but I do think that you it's important that we do our due diligence to make sure that we are uh considering past conversations as well that we bring this in.
um bringing community in with it. So I know council member Freeman had another comment. >> Sure. Council member, >> thank you. I do want to say that I think
that it raises an issue or not really an issue but a concern and really going through I guess the TS side of policing uh especially in light of AI. It would be great to see uh like what the police policy is on that so that it is clear. Um, I'm sure you have it already and it I think it's I think it would be helpful to have that conversation more publicly. So, >> thank you colleagues.
Anyone else? Right, Mr. Manager, just for the sake of clarity. So, this this item will not appear on our November 3rd um agenda for Monday will be carried over for another cycle.
>> Thank you. >> Just I'm I'm sorry. Just one >> question. >> Sure.
Identify yourself please. >> Uh this is Philip from Paragrin that chief had identified as the restore standing on standby. >> All right. >> I was just curious if I could say a few words just to mitigate some concerns or misconceptions about the company or the
data what we share etc. Um spent a lot of time on it already and happy to go into further discussions with the public or whoever needs to hear it but just thought I'd clarify a few things if I could have a minute. >> Sure. Please proceed.
Awesome. Um, so Paragrin is just a data integration company. As chief said, we just take the information that um, the Durham Police Department has really difficult time searching and manually cross referencing like their CAD, RMS, and evidence, bringing it all together and making connections. So that would typically takes an analyst, investigator days or hours.
They can now do seamlessly minutes and seconds to spend more time doing high quality police work, engaging with the community, and just being more operationally efficient, you know, for a department that is understaffed. And while I agree with um the original lady who brought up the concern that people should, you know, be leading policing, the unfortunate fact is there's not as many people today lining up to become law enforcement officers. And so this can certainly fill
a gap. Um Paragan was founded by a former um uh Palunteer employee. That employee has not worked at Palunteer since 2016. So for almost a decade.
There is no association with Palunteer. We are not a partner. We do not work together. We do not share data with Palunteer and we do not work with ICE and Durham PD nor any of our um partners or law enforcement or whoever uh would ever have their data shared with ICE or any other agency whether state, local, federal or any otherwise unless there was explicit permission um granted.
Um so just want to clarify those items that uh maybe are of greatest concern. We do not do any predictive policing. I'm happy to get into some of the you know specific use cases in which we leverage artificial intelligence for cleaning data, creating safety flags for patrol situational awareness going into you know calls for service. Maybe understand that there's a hazardous material. You
know there's been violent situations at this address before. there have been, you know, there is a child maybe with a a disability or a learning disability not to, you know, go in too violently or, you know, barge down a door. So, it's just using data in a way that helps the department make better datadriven decisions and overall creates operational efficiencies. So, happy to go more into any conversations, but just want to throw that out there.
>> Thank you very much, sir. M you >> Yeah, I I just I'm conscious about the cycles. I know we asked for an additional cycle. I don't want to rush it if it we don't know what folks schedules are.
Um I'd like some churches and organizations to be able to like grab this information and be a part of it. I would like to go ahead and get it through as soon as possible if you know um because I know it's a resource you could desperately use, but I I do think that we need to make sure as many voices are at the table as possible. Uh so uh if we can get it done within the next cycle by what what is it mid November or
December whenever that's fine that's great I just don't want to set a hard line and not enough people have been engaged let's just say we can just do three roundts or I mean three community gatherings at least that would be great but uh I can I can help pull some folks together as well. Um yeah. >> So just if I may, um I while I have some ideas of places to meet, I want to make sure that we're meeting people where it's easily accessible for them, whether they're biking, walking, what, you know, what have you. Um so if if you have location, I know what I'm thinking, right?
But if there's certain locations it's easier for more people um to meet, then I want to be able to facilitate those meetings at those locations. Um so I just want to throw that out there. You should just let me know. Let us know. >> Thanks for that, Chief.
>> Okay. Well, Mr. Manager is going work with you on working with the folks staff to get that set up. I just don't want to rush it.
I and I I appreciate the this this idea of engagement. I think it's really important. " So, um rightful concern, but I just want to make sure that we're able to have an honest conversation around it. Um or have a conversation so there can be honest, you know, feedback about it.
>> Thank you. >> Pardon me, Mr. Mayor. There is a speaker online who would like to address this item.
Did they register for >> He registered? It's Mr. Owen Webster. He's on the list.
>> Okay. >> I thought he was a a res. Okay, that's fine. >> Yep.
Go ahead. That's Orin West. Yes. Sorry.
Um Owen. >> Hey. Um sorry about that. I was good.
Microphone and everything. >> You're good. Welcome. You got three minutes.
>> Okay. Yeah. Thank you. So, obviously there's been a lot of people.
First of all, I'm I'm a resident of Durham, have been for like six, seven years now. Um I'm a PhD candidate in nuclear engineering at NC State University. Um what I was most concerned about was of course this issue. I, you know, I'll be the first to admit this is the I I heard about this very recently.
This is not something I've been following for a long time, but um you know, in the past few days, I've been reading it fairly extensive, reading about it as much as I can. Um I I think that, you know, I think I think that I want to address a few main arguments. I think the original speaker handled a lot of it, but one of these arguments is this idea that, oh, we're not adding any new capabilities, which, you know, I think is a a valid thing and it's a it's reassuring to hear. Um, but but the the fact is what you're what you're doing is you're allowing a computer system to be integrated into deciding which of the
existing capabil um you know are applied and and you know what things are brought together and I think that anybody who's read about the sort of AI issue or in my case teaches students understands that people that use AI frequently in in in their work are you know they studies Microsoft, MIT, Harvard have done they they cognitively offload they they over time they gradually become trusting of the AI and less trusting of their own internal judgement. Um, you know, there's there's people who advocate for RTCC systems. They talk about it like it's this, for example, Eric Lean, uh, communications director for the National RTCC Association. " Um, to one who is associated with these
things to believe that sincerely that there cannot be false positives. It's very concerning. Um just from a cost standpoint, you would want to avoid this. I mean, there's been instances where, for example, in Aurora, Colorado, there was a woman and her, I believe, six or sevenyear-old child that were held at gunpoint because of a system similar to this, concluding that they were driving a stolen vehicle.
9 million settlement as a result. So, you know, that's four years of this contract if it goes wrong even once potentially. Um, and you know, there's just plenty of reason why I I don't really trust the whole I I think it's very dismissive to say that, oh, it's not Palanteer. You know, you you thought that it was Palanteer because it starts with a P.
I think that's very much a straw. And the fact of the matter is the CEO that founded this company was a former Palunteer executive. He worked at Palanteer according to his LinkedIn
until 2017. Um, >> thank you so much. >> Okay. Sorry.
>> No, you're you're welcome. Thank you. Good points as well. Thanks for uh chiming in.
And uh the original speaker who's in person, what was your name again? >> Raina. >> Raina. Okay.
All right. You could email me your remarks. I wanted to Yeah. Thank you.
Go ahead, >> colleagues. Anyone else? >> Go ahead. >> I would just echo the comments.
I don't I don't know how much of the text I have a little bit of a tech background. And so the folks who worked at what was, you know, Map Quest to, you know, to Hotmail, like all of those incremental changes. um those folks take that same coding and systems work with them and so everything
it it all can talk to each other and so it's yeah this is just very troubling but I I just want to make sure that we're not uh simp like simply just looking at this one software system it is every system that we're using and so it's not specific to the police department is specific to all of our technical solutions and yeah that's mainly the thing is that this is not limited and yeah I don't want us to just harp on surveillance is happening right here with my phone and what does that look like and how are we putting in place policy that will make sure that we're cognitive of of what what's happening because that is is so readily available >> and I just want to appreciate that point. I uh I I I'm advocating for broader community engagement because I do think that, you know, some solutions are necessary. Uh to not do anything and
pretend that there won't be any surveillance is just disingenuous. So, I appreciate Council Member Freeman's point. Um, but also if more, you know, if if we're able to, you know, be able to look at this information and make sure that, you know, again, as stated, we're not worried about our police department, but, you know, if we could, you know, put that transparency out there and everyone knows what it is, you know, uh, great. But doing nothing is just not an option.
I don't know how you tell a parent whose child was just shot and they're waiting on an investigation to be closed that well we didn't want to overp police you, you know, like it's it's not really about over policing. It's about this technology doing what we say it does, but also doing our due diligence to ensure that it's also not abusing uh abusing even our police department's use. Just like when Shot Spotter came in, you didn't take Shot Spotter as stock. you literally changed the whole company which inspired them to change your name. So I appreciate your leadership in that and I'm expecting the
same thing here. Um so I think the concerns that I've heard uh from the original speaker as well as uh Mr. Owen online are very valid and I think that's why we need to have those community conversations um to make sure that folks understand what it is, you know. But I I also don't think we're running from AI and and surveillance because it's just too it's too many places.
And I'm not we're not saying that we're trying to like prevent AI in the city, but we want to make sure that folks know exactly what we're getting ourselves into. So, thank you. >> All right. We have two hours on a thank >> strategic plan.
So, I'm gonna stop talking. [laughter] >> Right. Thank you, colleagues. Chief, good to see you.
Thank you so much. All right. Uh colleagues, our first presentation is a 2024 general obligation bond referendum projects progress update presentation which is slated to go 20 minutes. We'll hear this presentation then I recommend maybe a seven to 10 minute
break. Then we'll go into the two hours. >> And don't feel like you have to take the whole 20 minutes, you know. >> Yeah.
[clears throat] Oh god, [laughter] council members are getting really excited about this. So, yep, it's going to be the 020. >> Good afternoon everybody. Um Tasha Johnson, Environmental and Street Services, and I will be presenting today also with WDE Walcott with DPR is somewhere nearby.
and uh >> cheering me in the back >> working behind the scenes to help bring this all together. Stacy Poston with general services. Um so we are here to present for you an update of the projects funded by the 2024 bond referendum.
Okay, so just to recap how we got here. Um, in November of 2024, the city put forth two bond initiatives for the voters and they were approved with convincing support. Uh, the referendums total $200 million. The first one was 115 million for streets and sidewalk projects as you see outlined here, sidewalk repairs, new sidewalk construction, uh, street paving and unpaved roads program.
The additional 85 million went towards parks and recreation for several projects. Uh the projects that were funded were considered to be shovel ready at the time and the um thought process was that spending money now would help us save money in the future. Over the years, we've seen significant increases in cost associated with these scopes of work. And so by advancing the money now to accelerate delivery of these projects,
the plan is to save money on those projects to deliver them faster and therefore having more money available in the future. Um as I go through my slides, I do not have uh vicinity maps for the specific projects but maps are available on the bond web page and uh also each of these projects has its own individual web page. I would like to pause right here first and recognize additional staff in the room. We have staff of course from environmental and street services as well as DPR, general services and transportation all working behind the scenes to bring these projects forward. We also have Tim Flora ever present when there's a bond conversation going on available as well. Um staff have been very nimble and flexible in how they've been working to bring these projects forward, identifying contingency plans, bid alternates, and looking for critical path issues and pivoting to make sure
that when we got to those points, we were able to continue the forward momentum. [snorts] the first batch of projects, sidewalk repairs. You've already seen some of this work. Um, we were working to develop these projects even before the initiative was finalized and so we were able to get to bid very quickly once the referendum was approved.
Uh, we advertised late last year. The work began early this year and we uh are a little bit more than 50% complete with that work. Um so that was the phase one of these sidewalk repairs. We are delivering these projects in two cycles.
The second cycle uh we have opened bids recently and we will be bringing that forth for award as well. And that contract should also start in January of 2026 and finishing up a year later. And so that will complete the first $15 million
associated with sidewalk repair projects. Oh, if I can also point out uh this will include a combination of treatment types. Uh not just removal and replacement, but also um some sidewalk grinding that has been uh a tool that we have incorporated into our our program recently to make sure that we can make these funds go further. We do uh anticipate getting close to our projected 20 miles of sidewalk repair with both of these combined projects. And also the locations that have been identified uh were prioritized to focus the repair on the areas of the city where the residents are most dependent on alternative modes of transportation for their daily transportation needs. All right, the next batch of sidewalks or projects we have are these sidewalk
construction projects. Uh we have a combination of projects here. There are some that are federally funded. There are some that are city funded.
There are some that are on city streets as well as some on um NC DOT streets. And so each of these comes with their own unique um frustrations in terms of delivery. 4 miles of sidewalks across 25 different locations represented here in I believe it's 11 different projects. Uh some of these for example bike plus walk phase one which is on this agenda cycle um has multiple locations and so that's why we're able to address 25 locations with just uh 11 projects.
So um as I said some of these are more complex than others. Some are road widening projects that have sidewalk with them that include sidewalk and additional pedestrian amenities and some are simply sidewalk projects. The bike plus walk phase one is simply a sidewalk project. Uh East Club is the
next project that is slated for average um award and that is very near design completion and general services is here. They're managing that project if you have any questions for that. But we plan to start construction in early 2026. I will highlight a few more and then keep it moving.
Um, Hillenddale Road is the next project uh coming forth after East Club. That is a federally funded project. That is a bicycle and pedestrian project. Very um extensive work.
We are almost finished with no I'm sorry. We're finished with rightway acquisitions for that one. and uh we are awaiting NC DOT construction authorization and we plan to advertise that and then begin construction in the spring of 2026. The last one I will point out here is the Morin Road bike lanes uh also a federally funded project with uh pedestrian amenities. We are almost finished with acquisitions for that one.
We have run into a few um uh issues as far as having to proceed with friendly condemnations for example with Durham Housing Authority. They have been working collaboratively with us but that has been um a very complicated process. So once we um obtain that acquisition as well as an acquisition with Duke Hospital uh the attorneys are working on that as well. we will be able to move forward to construction ac uh authorization as well as uh construction in spring 2027.
[clears throat] And I will pause to see if there are any specific questions on these projects before I move forward. Okay. Uh the next um batch of projects managed [clears throat] by environmental and street services here $30 million for street repair approximately 100 miles of streets to be impacted by this work. The work that we do is not glamorous but it
is very much important to maintaining the infrastructure of the city and so this is another one of those types of projects. Uh we have already advertised the first uh batch of projects I'll call them for construction. That work is ongoing, still doing our typical pavement preservation methodology with a combination of resurfacing, repaving, and pavement preservation treatments. Those projects are wrapping up um for this construction season and uh construction began in 2025 for the repaven and uh or I'm sorry, April 2025, so the spring for repaven as well as May 2025 for the payment preservation. Um let's see the street repairs which is the next phase of that because again we were as we said when we were um talking to the residents these projects would be delivered in two phases. So now we are advertising for phase two of street repairs and repaving and uh we should have that awarded later
this year with again construction to start in 2026 for both of those projects. Um, paving is more seasonally constrained than concrete work, which is why you see these projects started in 2026 or spring 2026 versus winter of 2026. So, and the last group of projects before I turn this over to Wade with the DPR projects is the unpaved roads program. So, in 2019, uh, council directed this department to pave all remaining unpaved roads in the city.
At that time, it was just short of 19 miles of unpaved roads. they were spread across several hundred locations. Over the years, we have whittleled that number down. 8 miles of unpaved roads in the city.
There was a project that was completed this year. So, the number is about nine miles now. Um so ST 337 is the unpaved roads uh project the first phase of the bond funded work which was also on today's agenda and uh we once we receive award with that work they will start uh construction in late 2025 or this winter. Uh even though this is asphalt work, there is some work that they can do um before laying asphalt as the season or the temperature warms up um in the spring.
So that's phase one. And then the final phase of that work. Again, these projects all delivered in two phases for maintenance type activities is the unpaved roads phase two. And that will be advertised about this time next fall again with the work to start later in 2026. And if there are no questions for me, I
will turn the mic over to Wade. >> Sure, Council Member Freeman, before we transition to parks. >> Yeah, thanks. Just a couple questions.
Um, I appreciate you bringing this forward and I'm excited about all the projects. I just know I'm going to get phone calls. So, is there a dashboard that kind of tells I know I'm looking it looks like there's about 105 different sidewalk just sidewalks. So, how do how would I see kind of like a stop light or traffic light kind of red, green, red, yellow, green on these projects?
And then also a map. >> So, the maps are on the bond website. Um, >> but they're by separated projects. They're not they're not like if there's five of them in this one area and then you have to like make all the detours in that area for this week like kind of thing.
So >> um so that's the one place that the maps are available. The other place is for the individual uh project web pages. So as each in environmental and street
services each project has its own individual project web page with um the schedule as well as the maps and the contracts and the locations available. But there's no integrated map. >> I do not know of an integrated map. >> Okay.
>> Um, answering your other question about the stop lightss, I don't know if these projects are part of the stoplight report. >> I'm certain they're not. >> Christina Rearden, director of budget and management services. So, um, as we had talked about at our previous um, work session, we uh, budget and management services has been doing some work on the quarterly stoplight report.
So, um, as the, um, kind of projects come forward, so you'll get a, um, in our next quarterly report, um, you'll get, um, that stoplight and then they'll have what you're used to seeing the red, yellow, and green where they are kind of in that phase. >> Each of these projects will be in the quarterly report is what you're saying >> as they're kind of as they're financially kind of like contained as far as how we have. So, um, as their
projects >> once it moves forward from the public hearing and acquisition and then kind of actively goes into construction, it'll be under stoplight report, >> right? And we group them by what we call projects, which is how we do the funding. So, it might not be by individual contracts, but at least um the project will >> the new software that we're looking or the new platform that we're looking at using to track these be helpful in maybe helping to integrate to create a map. Yes, I think there's several things that we're looking at to um kind of move that forward as we go into Oracle and I think um some other technology that uh project management software that will be going >> I would offer to sit in your integration meetings but I don't want to do that.
>> Thank you. >> But I will if I have to. >> Thank you, council member. Uh colleagues, can I just say how amazing and exciting uh this is to see uh this work um moving forward? I I also just want to just lean into the fact that we are um
operationalizing our equity tool uh and actually rep prioritizing and changing the list and the order of projects that are going to get addressed. And I think that's worth noting because under under the old rubric, you know, how we do CIP and stuff, some of these areas may not have been where they are. So, I I I think we should really just celebrate um the concrete work and and uh results we're getting from not just leaving our equity work on the shelf, but actually changing the order of projects and some of these historically disinvested neighborhoods are moving up uh in rank. I I I don't want that to get lost.
4 miles of new sidewalk uh construction um in our city. Um you know, put that in context. 4 miles long. So, we we are constructing almost enough new sidewalks to go from one end of Manhattan to the next.
That that's something I think that needs to be celebrated uh and lifted up. Uh paved roads. Uh finally getting to
our paved roads in the city. Um this is this is there's a lot of work to be done, but I I just want to seriously just um celebrate um the vision of this and and those who work so hard on this bond. Cabar, I know you were this was a big project for you and for our voters who who approved it and the the uh employment of our equity lens. Um this is a this is a good thing I think and it's going to um acrue good to us for generations to come.
So I just want to thank y'all so much for the work and and thank um the voters and this council and councils uh that have worked on on these type of projects and lean into uh infrastructure and the important importance of our infrastructure as well. So kudos. >> Thank you. Thank you.
Want to shift to parks now? >> Yes. No, >> I can just say it at the end. I just wanted to thank all y'all because I was in lots of meetings with you last fall. >> Good afternoon, Mr. Mayor, Mayor Pro
Tim, members of council. I'm WDE Walcut with your parks and recreation department and we're talking about our building our legacy parks. So, we have one park bond that's going to impact and transform three different parks. So, starting off first, we're going to make some waves over at Merrickmore Park.
This is a place to swim, play, connect, and belong. And this is just a reminder, a refresher, if you will, of the amenities and the activities and the priorities that the community told us when we went through the Splash and Play plan a couple years ago. And so, those still ring true today. uh some of the specifics you can see in the first bullet points from a zero depth entry to a spray ground and making sure there is lots of shade.
And that word is very simple, shade, but that comes that rings true through all of our parks. And that's a a lot of what residents are asking for places to cool down and have some shade. Um but not just having toddler slides and pool, but it's also having some adventure components and fitness components to this aquatic center. from a lazy river of course to a
huge water slide tower to even a climbing wall. Uh but also there's been a lot of favor toward the competition pool and a place to do lap swimming and and learn to swim as well. So something for everyone. The design approach that you'll see here is essentially going to be the same design approach that we're going to talk about for Long Meadow and East End.
And looking at those elements of transformational, being world class, um h having safety, having being inclusive and accessible for all of our guests and visitors and residents, incorporating sustainability, efficiency practices along with creating a space for community identity. So, this project, you can see the budget there. Um, this where we're at right now from our conceptual plan is uh working with our design firm and general contractor and taking a look at the actual site. Before we had a conceptual view of what how shapes would fit on the site. Now, right now, we're taking a
closer look and seeing how can we enhance public access and parking and reduce some of the spaces that you saw in a conceptual rendering a long time ago and how we can connect folks through the park and of course make connections to the pool to wheel skating rink as well. You can see the expected schedule here at the bottom of the slide on where we are now and where we plan to be on our proposed opening day of Memorial Memorial Day in 2029. So since we've last uh been in front of you on the left side of the slide, we you have approved uh the contract for the design firm and the construction manager at risk. We have done with them site visits to get a closer look of of the site itself.
We've had our project kickoff meeting where we established all of our goals, our roles, responsibilities, and how our communication is going to lay out. And like I mentioned earlier, confirm the alignment with the original plan and adjusting the layout today. And part of
it also has been community engagement. It's really re-engagement. Uh reminding folks and especially at this particular site, our neighbors at Merrick Moore, um where we were, we're back at it again. Here's our next steps.
And then on the right hand of the of the slide, um these are the next steps you can expect. So we'll have cost estimate updates. Our design will continue. We'll deepen our relationship with the community as we move along and we're going to make sure we integrate all of our city initiatives and then begin that phase delivery.
Now, as we move toward the other project, this is all about restoring ground, reuniting community. It's the renewal of East End and Long Meadow Parks. And this is chapter one. Uh you can see the total budget here is very similar.
And what is this? This is not just a park. It is a living crossroads of connecting people, play and place and that's at the forefront. Uh just like the design approach for Merrick Moore Aquatic Center, it's the same uh broad
goals of transformational and world class. Um we're also looking at the amenities that rang true in the splash and play project that were priorities of the community. Uh, it's having a pool. It's having play spaces, athletic fields, courts, skating, climbing, fitness areas.
It's also what really rang loud to us when we went through the original process was having that community space, that plaza. Uh, so that is still a priority. And again, like I foreshadowed earlier, but Nintendo shadowed um shade and cooling opportunities ring true here for for this for these sites as well. Now the phases here for this project um are three-fold.
e. the Long Meadow pool. And we were going to work our way from south the Long Meadow area and work our way north um to the border of the East End park. And so phase two is
redeveloping is putting all those elements in from Long Meadow up to the science signal shop. And then um there'll there's essentially a line there. And that third phase and that that line is the east end property. And this is what I've talked about a few times with you and the community about waiting till the end of this year to getting the data from the department of environmental quality to inform us on how we can move uh forward.
So again uh similar to the last project, we have three phases here. You can see the timeline for phase one and phase two. And what I mean again is proposed opening of October 2028. That is going to be the majority that is going to be Long Meadow Park as we know it right now in the sign and signal shop.
And there may be some elements north of that. We're not sure yet. And then the third phase is a is a future date depending on the data and information we get from the Department of Environmental Quality.
So again, uh, since last time you heard about this from us, you can see that you approved the design and construction contracts for both groups. We have also had that project kickoff with those groups establishing our roles and goals and responsibilities. Again, we have been on site. Um, and then we've also had a great partnership both with the police department and community outreach and safety and community safety departments.
Our schematic design is started and then up next, what you can see coming in the future is park security and closing. What that means is uh securing the site so more of our contractors and design team can be on site to do their work. Part of that will include putting up the fencing and having the connect Durham language and our bond language around there to signal to folks that good things are happening. Park in progress.
Your bond dollars are at work. And so you'll see that happening um at all these sites. Majority of Long Meadow Park will be
closed during this time. The baseball fields will remain open. So that little section off to the side, the baseball court, baseball fields and restroom again will remain open for all the program that we normally do. You can also we will expect to see cost estimate updates coming.
um we will continue our uh relationships and engagement with the community and just like the others make sure we're incorporating all the city's initiatives and begin that that phased uh approach. Uh you know Tasha and I've been like council member Cababierro mentioned earlier um she's been a part of this process since we were first thinking about having a bond and I've been with Tasha as we've been putting all this together. So I've learned enough from her that the streets and sidewalk projects just like our park projects are building legacy and and so you know I thought of it course selfishly and biased of a park um from a park
perspective but the streets and sidewalks and the parks is the city and thankfully to the voters are putting you know over 70% approval for their taxpayer dollars to make this transformation. So, they're legacy parks. They're legacy projects. They're legacy parks and projects in the literal sense because these are being designed and built to last generations.
So, they're going to be designed and built to endure uh the environment or any financial or any social changes. They're legacy projects in a symbolic way as well because they're more than just a sidewalk. They're more than just a recreation space. They're a place where people connect and build community and build lives together. And what I love most about these projects is they they reflect the values and the identity and really they reflect Bull City pride. And so we're really excited u all of us and all the staff that we have the opportunity to work on some of these legacy projects and provide these gifts and serve the
community in this way. So we're we're grateful for that. and then we will build great parks and our little brothers and sisters in Raleigh and Carrie can, you know, model after us and and go forward. So, we're happy Tasha and I or who else are happy to answer any questions.
>> Thanks so much, man. Great presentation. Colleagues, Mr. Mayor, >> I just had a a question around um the current parks that are closed.
I know we were talking about the bonds and I'm grateful to see all of this work happening. Um, and I actually at one point forgot that we had did this and I was wondering like why is there so much construction on the corners downtown, but I see what's happening and it's, you know, um, everyone is passively at work. Um, have we considered for a temporary solution putting tarp over some of the parks that are closed? Um, >> could you explain that a little bit more?
Tarps? >> Uh, yeah. It's it's a short-term temporary solution for some of the
closed parks and I know some of them are what we're looking at redoing here that once that had lead in the soil. >> Sure. Oh, so are you talking about >> not to take us too far off topic, but I'm just thinking about [snorts] >> so other parks not part of the bond project tarps to cover just the spaces. Uh we can we can look at that.
Sure. And we can find out more about the details of that. >> I appreciate that. Mhm.
>> Can I understand with more clarity, mayor, is that for what would be the what's the outcome you're wanting [clears throat] us to accomplish by covering the parks? >> Well, with cautiousness of not taking us too far off topic for this, um, we do have a lot of closed parks due to the lead in the soil. Um, I was asking if you know we could maybe look at being able to temporarily open up some of those parks, open them back up with the temporary >> So, you're you're saying
you're asking if there are measures we could implement to make them temporarily usable and that you were suggesting. Okay. >> Yes. >> Okay.
Yeah, I better understand. Thank you. Yes, we have we have five parks out of our 66 that are impacted as by previous landfills or receiving, you know, landfill soil. >> Yeah.
>> Uh all of those parks do have portions that are open still. Not none of them are completely. There are some parks obviously that have majority of the space closed, prohibited access. Uh we have looked at that very same thing.
Um, and as we defer to the state, they weren't comfortable endorsing that piece yet. Uh, I'm hoping again, and I sound like a broken record, but very soon we should have more data to allow us to make better decisions and see if there are portions of some of these parks that we can open up. um when they're while they're doing their below ground like vapor testing and soil and water testing
right now. That is what I think holds them back a little bit on saying yes, go ahead and open up these spaces. So, we'd like just to to wait until we get the science to help us make our decisions. >> All right.
Thank you. >> Thanks, Mayor. Council Member Cabier. >> Thank you.
I just really appreciate the update and appreciate um all of the work. I also appreciate the giant signs that y'all are putting out in some of these places because I I know I've said from the beginning, I really want us to celebrate. Uh I know when I've traveled to other cities, there's clear giant signage that's like welcome to this thing or thank you voters for this bond or whatever. So, um I think that it helps further that communications that we've talked about celebrating the wins.
I think folks really need good news right now. uh and to show um that election night last year was a sad sad state of events other than our um very uh amazing uh bond approval here in in Durham. Um and to see uh it was a risk.
I mean, it was one of the first times we've ever put a city bond measure on a general election ballot in a presidential year. We usually line it up with municipal elections, which has much lower turnout. Um, so I think it's also a testament that it probably captured uh folks who maybe don't vote in municipal elections but still wanted to see this uh in their communities. So I I think that it was it was worth doing when we did it and certainly got us ahead of um by a year [snorts] uh on some of these projects and we know uh especially with cost of construction a year can cost a community a lot of money.
Um so thank you to uh please remember to invite us to anything any ribbon cutting. Many of us may not be here when those ribbons get cut in the future, but reach out to us anyway. Uh so that we can uh celebrate some some lovely things. I remember when Merrick Moore soccer fields opened, >> you know, that that was a a great event.
Um and y'all did a fantastic job. Uh DPR did a fantastic job bringing community together. So looking forward to those um
ribbon cutings and shovel. Um I think I remember when Merrick Moore was there and I dug the dirt and cut a ribbon. So, I want to do both. Thank you.
>> Okay. >> Thanks so much, Council Member Baker. >> Um I'm also team sign. I like like uh showing people uh physically what what the city is doing.
Um and uh so on the question of the uh bond, um my only question is could you just give give us a little bit of um a little bit on the public input into the design process? Um, and then on just because it came up the the lead in the park situation. Um, I just wanted to see this is something we discussed earlier, potentially convening your working group and getting started on design, sort of anticipating what uh what kind of new data might be coming back and if that's something that that uh you're you all are planning on moving forward with. Thank you.
>> What was your what I'm sorry, what was the first part of the first question. uh public input into the design. >> We had close to two years worth of that public engagement process. And so that was part of the, you know, honestly I could go back further than that.
" And so that started it off and we looked areas of the city where we needed more pools and we knew east was definitely one of them and we also part of that study in 2017 looked at the age of our pools and they're not young. So 1950s I think were when some of them were built. So that started the engagement process then. Then uh about two years ago it took about two years worth of engagement. We identified
locations. That's how we purchased the wheels property and then we were reminded that there might be a strong feeling about reopening wheels roller rink. So we did that and that's been great. Um and so all the priorities that you're going to see in our planning documents whether it's for Merrickmore Long Meadow or East End.
You're going to see the raw data of how many votes and how many people wanted this amenity and all the priorities that are going to be designed and developed come from the community. So when I say legacy parks built together, it's a literal statement. And I I think you your second part of the question was maybe regarding the other parks, the preregulatory landfill parks. Yeah, I know it's a separate topic, but just because it came up, I was I wanted to while you're here, I wanted to follow up on a previous conversation we'd had about potentially, and if you don't have
the answer right now, don't worry about it, but um what I would love to to get the answer today, but convening that entire working group that has of atlarge community members and technical experts and the nonprofit orgs that have been involved. >> Yeah, the the community and we're a partner with them in the first part. They're uh producing, you may recall, several soil shops that are coming up. Um, and I will get you that information, the list of the dates and locations uh where they're going to be able to provide all kinds of information that that residents are interested.
Uh, since June of 23 or I'm sorry, a few months after in 23, we developed this working community group that have all the folks that you just mentioned. um whether it's been in-person meetings, remote meetings, or communications at least once a month, that has continued for two years. Uh like we mentioned to you in our conversation, probably haven't met recently, that will happen soon. Um just
as a refresh of here's where we are. Um, here's what we anticipate when we get information from the state. And these are the alternative ideas that we've been thinking about to the mayor's point, to some community members point, frankly, to my point of like what can we do, what areas can we open that we can be creative and maybe have some supplemental ideas there, too, because we know thanks to to you, uh, we have funding in our capital improvement program that we can address some of those issues. And council member Freeman, I wanted to mention um with Long Meadow and and East End specifically, even in this early design as we're just trying to get our ducks in a row, um designing for intentional spaces to have storytelling opportunities is is a priority of ours and I think you mentioned that previously. So, I wanted to make sure you knew that that that was a priority. >> Colleagues, anyone else?
I would just echo the uh update for whatever is going to happen, but I know the no future meetings, no currently planned meetings for the lead in the park is kind of concerning, but I I appreciate the update on East End and Long Island. >> Wade, could you I would clarify that the soil shops are are public meetings specifically on this topic and from this topic. So, I don't want to leave the impression that there aren't meetings. There's a number of intensive meetings with a lot of public information, a lot of educational value to those.
So, Wade, could could you clarify that those are >> Yes, they're absolutely they're I think most of them, if not all of them, take place in our recreation centers. Our team uh will be there and we'll have a a booth set up as well. Those are being shared with that that group and the community at large as well. >> And I would just ask that you update the website.
We'll do. >> Great. Council member, >> just following up to say uh thank you
for for the work. Yeah, I'm very excited. Um team sign. Thanks.
>> Outstanding. Uh great work. >> And one other just also just hearkening back. I think that this all started from a 2013 plan around all the parks in 2017 specifically for the aquatics.
But the the connection from R. Kelly Bryant. I think that is really monumental and I really appreciate because the east side of Durm does or does not have as well connected routes um near the creeks or the trails like in like it does on north or south. Okay.
>> And so that's helpful. >> Yeah, that's just you made a great point. It's an exciting opportunity. As I always say, we're literally and figuratively connecting these two parks and we can't do it without the R.
Kelly Bryant Bridge Trail. >> Awesome. Thank you colleagues. Before we take a break, Madam Clerk, do you want to give your report very quick and then uh we'll break.
>> Thank you, Mr. Mayor Prom. I've got two um boards and committees to report on. The first is the Durham Planning Commission appointment.
Um council has nominated America E. Huarez Maldonado and the second one for the human relations commission. We do not have consensus on that. Um Kristen Barrett has received three votes and um then there was a distribution between the others of Leticia Graham, Charles Robinson and Robin A.
Smith and I didn't know if somebody would like to change their vote. >> Colleagues, is my vote helpful at all? >> You're under Kristen Barrett. Okay, >> Kristen, >> you can change mine.
>> You can change mine to the majority. >> Okay. All right. Thank you, Mr.
Mayor. That means that um Kristen Barrett has received the nomination. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, colleagues. The manager has
also just informed me as well since the next presentation is just a presentation, we can go ahead and settle the agenda now actually and dispense with that now and then once the presentation is over, we can adjourn if that's okay without objection. Mr. Manager, can we settle? >> Thank you.
Uh, settling the agenda. Items 1 through 22 are on consent. There are no GBA items. Item 25 has been referred back to staff.
>> Outstanding. Um, motion to settle. >> So moved. >> Second.
>> Heard a motion in a second. All in favor? >> I. >> Those opposed.
>> All right. 310. Long enough. 312.
312. >> All right. We >> We'll be back. We're in recess until 3:12. Thank you.
All right. Okay. Test test test. Okay. >> Yeah, that works.
going the wrong direction. We're losing people. >> I know, right? >> Friends, it's 3:12.
If we'll come back to order. Have anyone seen any council members roaming the hallways? Would you uh Buer? Buler.
[laughter] One, two, >> three. [laughter] >> All right. More. >> Any more council members with you? I don't get this done too.
All right, we're at quorum. Let's proceed. Good afternoon. I'm Sheri Metaf, strategic manager for um in budget management services department.
Welcome back. We are here for our second part, a continuation of our September 18th meeting. Um so just a uh highle timeline so we all remember where we are in this overall process. Um the goal for today is to get a draft goals and um priorities that we will then use when we go out to our community.
Okay. So we're going to be doing the next couple months we're going to be doing um a bunch of different community and employee engagement. Uh we'll be using some good oldfashioned paper surveys. We'll also be um we're excited to be using our new community partnerships and engagement department. They're going to be um helping us out with community
conversations. So, we're going to take all of this information over that we're going to collect over the next couple months and we'll be back in front of you all in February at the budget retreat. And that is when we will finalize our goals and our priorities, the ones that are going to be in our strategic plan to kind of finalize that structure. And that kicks us into phase two of our strategic planning process which then comes out to staff where we start developing those really important initiatives, those action items that we're going to be doing in the next three years to get us to where we want to go.
So, and that will all come back to you again at the end of May. So, we following the budget process. So, when you are coming together to talk about budget, we will also be there to talk about strategic planning. So today is all about getting that draft uh goals and those priorities that we're going to then take out to the community.
Okay. So I'm going to go ahead and kick us over to Warren uh Warren Miller and Danielle Bodaki from Fountain Works. They are once again going to lead us in our conversation. Um and I hope you enjoy
the next two hours, maybe less. We'll see how it goes. Thank you. >> Y thanks Harry.
So good afternoon. Glad to uh glad to be back with you. Thank you so much for uh having us back. And uh what I want to do is just jump right into our agenda here.
Got it up on the screen. And uh um really just re restating again what Sherry said is that um we we want to get to a point today where you have um you have agreement on your goals and priorities so that you can then take this out to the community. And so um what we're going to do is just a quick recap of how we got to this point. just uh refresh um refresh ourselves on what we did uh since the September session and then we're going to go through the different components uh values, lens, goals, priorities. So,
we're going to work through each of those. Um and then we're going to talk about the next steps. So, that's big picture what we're going to do. And um you know, I guess before we we jump into this, any just anything that you need to get out of this or any questions or any anything that would just be helpful to put on the table before we get started?
>> Everybody good? >> Yeah. [clears throat] I um just as I was thinking through it last time, you know, and I'm looking forward to the community part of this, but and I'm biased of this. I'm going to give you my ideas as a human being, as a resident of Durham. Um I just don't want to be so far removed from the functionality of how government works, how the city works, how we engage. I I I want to let that
center us and and be grounded in that. So I I may tell you that, you know, I uh I don't know. I may tell you a goal that may be unrealistic because it's what I feel, you know, as a person, but I hope that you'll pull us back in and center us and keep us focused on what the actual mission is here. >> Yeah.
Yeah. I mean, this is you are the city council. You set direction for this organization and the community. you're establishing um things that you want to focus on over the next five years. And what this what this will do is it will communicate to your to your organization, to the community, what you intend to accomplish, what those outcomes are, um what your values are all about, um uh so that you can then continue to make progress on that. So, you know, to your point, um, it's it's, you know, a strategic plan is about aspirational, it is about stretching, but it's also about getting really clear
on what you intend to get done. So, we want to keep it within the the the the structure of the plan itself, but there's certainly room for you to um to to to put out those things that you you know that you want to put out to the organization community, but I'll pull you back in if we need to. All right. Anything else you want to make sure that you get out of this conversation before we jump into it?
anything anything you've been thinking about since September 18th? All right, we'll get into it. Um all right so the work so far um three things that we did um at the September workshop you got oriented into your current strategic plan goals and then what you did during that session is
you identified prior a set of priorities and then we spent some time uh trying to organize those around a set of goals. We had some conversations and you had some different options, structures that you came up with. You had a list of priorities that you felt were important. So, we were around the room generating ideas and we started to get that organized.
Um, weren't able to land on a specific goal structure. Um, but you weren't that far off, but that we needed a little bit more time. um and um we did not land on a set of finite priorities that you want to take out to the community. So there was some more work that needed to be done. And so after that session, working with staff compiled your work, uh organized it a bit and then sent out a survey for you to help. One of the things we thought would help uh make this afternoon a little more efficient is giving you a
chance to look at all those priorities that you identified and doing some ranking of those. So, we'll take a look at that. But the idea is you uh you were you were evaluating which ones are that you felt were most important um uh so that we can then um finalize that list today. So, um, that survey, that work from the September 18th session is what we're going to review today.
So, a lot a lot of has been happening behind the scenes. Um, just again, any other questions about what what led up to today, sort of how we got here. You've got everybody, I think, is going through it. You've got your handouts to just to go through.
And so, we'll follow this along. the way we're gonna the way that we'll um Yeah, actually we can move to the next slide. So, we want to review the val the value lenses. Your city manager shared that out with you. So, we'll review that today what that means and then we uh we want to come away with
uh selecting a set of goals again that you can take out to the community. This is not your your final set of goals, but something that you feel comfortable taking out to the community to get some feedback on. And we want to select about five priorities per goal. So your current your current strategic plan has about three for each of the goals.
We're we're going to expand that a little bit so you can get some more feedback. But that would be shared out with the community and the community can then take a look at that. They can add give you feedback on those priorities. So those are the things that we want to um walk out of here with today.
Okay. So um reviewing the terms. So one of one of the things that um that emerged when we started going through the goals and priorities in the last session uh was the importance of making sure that the values that are already part of your organization are clearly
reflected in the plan. So for example, you were you were talking in the previous segment about um equity and the equity lens that you're applying to uh some of the decisions related to bond. And so the the uh the importance of having these articulated having them clear and communicated uh is something that we want to we want to get into. So the idea is that when you as a council have a set of values, you're applying these across all of the decisions that you're making, the tactical decisions across all of the goals that you're making.
So when you think about equity, for example, uh equity is something that you you're you're going to be looking at projects about priorities and you you think about that lens, the equity lens. How will this enhance equity in our community? So, you have two choices, choice A, choice B. You're applying that lens to
the decision. And so, it's the idea of we wanted to get that more clearly uh communicated and a part of your strategic plan. So, it's in there. It's something you have, but it's something we want to pull out.
and you you at our last session all of you um uh uh articulated some values. So we'll go and take a look at those. Those are on your handouts there. Um the goals are the overarching things that you want you want to accomplish that'll help you uh uh take you to that vision.
They are broad-based. Um the example we've got up here is safe community. And then you have priorities which are the things that you need to do really well to achieve those goals. So you have the example there of reducing gun violence as an example of a priority. So just just um wanted to just start with these terms. Um we'll dive in specifically to value lenses in just a
moment. But any question about the terms that we're working with? the the really the new one is um the value lens. Okay.
So, let's let's look at these. So, there there are there were four that we heard that came out um in the in the September session that are, you know, uh and working with staff to identify these. You see them up on the on the screen here and in your handout. Um and our our intent today is not necessarily to finalize this. Our our main focus is on the goals and the priorities, but we want to bring we want to bring these forward, see how these land with you, and see if they're u uh and just check
this. You'll have another chance to come back to these as part of the strategic planning process. So you have equity, economic justice, environmental justice, community engagement. As I was listening to the conversation from the last couple of hours, these were coming up, these values were coming up over and over in some of your comments.
So um how do these land with you? These values as a as a thumbs up as a Driana just how do they >> good okay >> this definitely sounds like us I mean it it it there's almost an internal redundancy to it in some they they each overlap and inform each other but this definitely sound like us. Yeah. I mean in a good way. >> They're powerful. Yeah.
I think, you know, just to to add on that comment, I think I remember you saying in September, we don't want like we we don't we don't want this to be a cookie cutter. I think you might have used those words, but these, you know, these are intended to reflect the values of you as a council, as you as an organization, as community as you think about your decisions. Nate, any reaction to these? Yeah, I I take our silence as um I I think I think our silence is making a statement about the fact that um these kind of land pretty well.
>> Um the only thing that's on my mind that I don't even need to change, but the only thing I'm thinking about here is under equity and economic justice. We talk about um historical inequity and historically marginalized or excluded, which is of course important, but for me it's about today and who is marginalized and excluded today. um and making up those gaps. Um who is experiencing inequality, not just
historically, but today. >> Yeah. >> But I don't really need I don't need to change that. It's just something that I'm >> Yeah.
>> I'm I'm I like this framework. >> Yeah. It's a good build. >> That that is really interesting because as I was thinking, I was like, you know, I'm being nitpicky about this um verbatim almost what Council Member Baker just said.
like I I historically which is the word is actually in there historical acknowledging the past yes but my goal is to make sure the past doesn't happen again and so I want to capture how we move forward >> but moving forward capturing that acknowledgement rather than just starting back to like I don't want to go back and like all right let me go and try to fix the past I want to make sure that everything we do forward does not >> allow the past to happen >> and So, um, yeah, these are powerful values. Um, uh, I mean, you know what I mean? You know,
uh, I I just, yeah, it's not it's like I'm fine with it, but if you're asking me for feedback, like my initial feedback is like, are we are we, you know, going to war with the past or are we preparing to make sure the past never happens again? The bad the the negative impacts of the past. >> Yeah. So, and I don't really know how to work that moving forward unless it's, you know, economic something to ensure that it's economic justice, you know.
And also for me, justice um almost implies that we are trying to fix something. We're trying to make so make sure something doesn't go wrong or we're trying to fix something that's wrong. Whereas you know it's like economic e it's almost I'm looking at equity and economic justice like economic equity moves forward ensuring that the past negative impacts of the past does not happen rather than >> you know putting the balance of justice on the past behaviors and harms. >> I don't know if that makes sense but
>> yeah I want to mark and then I may I may just add to what you're saying here. you know, Council [clears throat] Member Baker and the mayor's um it's an intriguing uh I think uh a read or gloss because for me the whole the whole equity industry is based upon the premise that history is still with us. It it it was never history was in this context does not mean it happened put a ribbon on it. equity that the whole thrust of equity uh it exists because our history still informs who we are.
We are living based upon things that were codified um historically. Um so I it's an interesting gloss but I I never you know I I never thought of it needing proof reading because it was always just assumed those of us who speak equity just knew that our history is very much alive >> um today and informing our context. But, you know, I'm not against tweaking a language, but I that's an interesting take. I never thought of it as in that sense. Yeah. You know, our history is now.
>> Yeah. And I think Nate, that's that's part of what you were you were getting to. And, you know, the idea of this is that you have a project, you have, let's say you have an econ you have a development project that's before you. You want to be asking these questions.
You're thinking about these things that you apply. Is this something we should do or not? Or we have two choices. how is this impact uh you know what's the impact of this from an equity standpoint that you know that's the idea is like using this as a tool to help make sure you're always thinking about these and in the projects and the things that you're doing and that the the the organization is thinking about these and things that are you know even things that don't come to your your desk here that the that the organization is applying these >> can you explain to me a little bit like the I get the values lens, but how does it fit in structurally um >> structurally >> to the to the >> Yeah, I mean think about it as you are are as you are pursuing priorities, as
you are pursuing tactical actions, you are asking these questions to make sure that your decisions are consistent with these values. >> Yeah, I guess is it I I understand the definition of examples. I'm just thinking like you know how our current plan is it one leads into the other. So would this be the highest level?
>> Yeah. Be Yeah. Think of it as like an umbrella. >> Yeah. >> And if I can So part of the conversation we had setting up for this and I think uh our our facilitators at Fountain Works really came up with this construct as we heard you working through the language for the goals and sort of struggling and going back and forth. What what we eventually sort of deciphered is it felt like you were trying to make sure each of the goals got language around these values and that it was it felt more simplified and more elegant to say why don't we just pull the values out and say the whole plan is going to reflect these values so
that the council didn't feel compelled to try and make sure each goal statement hit these four values when what we know is these four values sort of undergard everything you guys want us to do in the strategic plan. So this is the lens through which all the other work in the strategic plan will be projected and these values will be honored in all of the work. I think that's that's how this construct sort of came about. >> Thank you.
Then I I have some I I personally like in the economic justice like we're all residents. I would just say we're residents. >> Okay. Okay.
Uh same with uh the all in the environmental justice all res protect all residents from environmental I mean I I think that if it's going to inform it I I understand visioning but it's also to me things that aren't actually >> like you can't deliver on a thing then it's actually just miscommunication and and over overpromising that you can't. >> Yeah. So, I just want to be I'm always
I'm very practical and I want to make sure that >> while we have lofty language and I don't that there's a you know it's a strate a strategic plan for a reason we do actually have to organize our work to a thing >> right >> so our northstar to me has to be a northstar we can actually like align to so just to be wherever that is just to be careful I guess um like I like >> I like the community engagement piece because it's like provides opportunities right an opportunity is kind of a two-way thing. You may not get engaged on every single decision. That doesn't mean we're not going to try. >> Yeah.
>> But that's why we provided you an opportunity. Part of that is then also you have to be an engaged resident and give us the feedback, right? Like it's it's both and so that Yeah. >> Yeah.
That's good good feedback. Did John any >> Okay. Yeah. And I just want to lean in on values and not allowing our values to become
a a a tool to become overly bureaucratic to where we can't produce but more so a tool to you know set parameters in how we make decisions and how we move forward. >> Right. >> Yeah. >> And and that's why I appreciate moving to August.
It's like it's almost like down. Okay. Now you got to get the signatures of all these people to do something. >> Yeah.
Yeah. But do you feel but for for you as you think about applying these to prize this these you know some of there may be times when some of these values could come in conflict with each other. Right? So you could have a project that um you know where economic justice and environmental justice you know may there may be some tension and that's okay and that happens but you're you're trying to raise the awareness that you're thinking about these and that you will have to work through sometimes where there are yeah I'm just you're nodding as Yeah. I think this happens naturally. When I first got on council, I used to call
council member Freeman. No offense. I used to call her an equity watchdog because everything we talked about it was always, well, did you consider these people? Did you consider those people?
Did you consider these people? And in my mind, I'm like, well, for me, equity is a lifestyle, you know, and I automatically think about that lens as well as the more, you know, this holistic approach. And I thought it was a really good balance >> because she communicated it, you know, more better than I did. when we were deliberating cases.
>> Yeah. >> Um now she's environmental watch and um it just you know I think we naturally think this is basically verbalizing how we function anyway. >> Yeah. That's right.
And and you're communicating it to to the to the community. >> Yeah. >> All right. Sound it sounds like we're the these are landing.
Um we can we can do a little tweaking again. These will come back to you. you'll have another chance to look at these, but we can I think we can move on from this. Okay.
So, the next the next thing to go over are the goal structures. So, there are you've got you have I think you have these in the handout too, right? So you have these there there were three structures um that you came up with and then the fourth is what what's the staff recommendation um kind of look looking at these looking listening to the conversation. The fourth one in yellow is what the staff came up with and you were you know you were if you look at these you're pretty close and then uh but there were some things that you wanted to pull out. there are some changes that you wanted to make and so the intent was to reflect those in structure 4. So, for example, um uh you wanted to pull out I mean you can read it for yourself, but you wanted to pull out um uh uh affordable housing sort of having that so creating a goal affordable housing, accessible
transportation um uh connected and engaged inclusive communities. So part of the community engagement value is sort of that's that's reflected across your goals. So you can see there there were some tweaks. Uh but ultimately structure number four uh was the one that we want to check in on that and see it see how that one lands with you as something that you feel that you'd be comfortable taking out to the community and knowing that you you would have an opportunity to to come back and tweak this.
Yeah. >> Do you remind me how the structures work again? I get some things. >> Yeah. Just think of it as your strategic plan has these broad goals and so we we were at the last session we were sort of like well should we have this set of goals or tweak it slightly. So we just put those different options that you were you were thinking about
one two and three up there for you to look at and remember this these were the conversations we had. But then the fourth is working with staff was their recommendation of how we think we could based on what they heard you say pull these together in a in a a set of goals. So just want to see how these land um get some get some initial take. Nate, do you want to get started?
>> Sure. Yeah, it looks like we're basically taking structure for us basically structure one but swapping out or kind of renaming uh connective connected, engaged and inclusive communities would become affordable housing and accessible transportation more or less and then vibrant built in natural environment would become vibrant sustainability and intentional infrastructure more or less. Um I want functional buckets that we can work with. So [laughter]
>> yeah, >> I can definitely compromise. Um, vibrant sustainability and intentional infrastructure seems a little clunky to me compared to vibrant built in natural environment, but >> I can compromise. >> Okay. So the word the the concept works, but the wording could be maybe back to and I think I remember in in September you were you were advocating or you were okay with the the the previous set.
Yeah. Okay. Um, Leo, [cough] [clears throat] >> I um I you know, I understand goals. I just I I get a little it feels a little weird when we're um like it can be a goal to have affordable housing. Obviously, I I it's just really subjective and I don't know how we make it practical. Of course, I want I want the housing to be affordable, but you know, are we putting it out there as, you know, it's
something that we value? Is it it's something that we want? How do we operationalize? I can say I can tell you how we can make communities safe.
I can tell you how we can make housing safe. I can tell you uh I can tell you how to make housing affordable, but it just kind of goes into this quagmire of for who, you know, and then it gets into the philosophy of, you know, accessibility, attainable, accessible housing, attainable housing, affordable housing, >> all the a word housing. Um I kind of get lost in that. It's to me it's more of a value than a an actual I guess it could be a goal.
That's fine. I just Now, housing for everybody. Yeah. >> Is what what what >> I would just say maybe if you put the actual 30% of your like tying it to an actual number might make it feel a little less subjective. So, if your housing costs are 30% or below and your
transportation is accessible to where you live and where you work, something more specific. [snorts] accessible. >> So >> yeah, you want to you would want to have metrics >> 30% or below. So your housing cost should be that's what makes it affordable.
At any rate, 30% or below >> of your Yeah. I I I I just think that if we if our goal is to house make sure people are housed, you know, um we're going to get into how accessible it is. We're going to get into how attainable it is. We're going to get into ultimately how affordable it is, you know.
Um so are we are we talking housing? Are we talking, you know, what type of housing? >> I don't know. Is it something where you'd want to um so is it the word affordable that's maybe um maybe
something that you want to rethink? >> Well, obviously we want affordable housing. Yeah. But how, >> you know, and and I I I want to be able to tie actionable steps and I can do that with affordable housing, but understanding that affordable is more subjective than than than actionable.
>> Yeah. Yeah. And these are the what the what's the what you want to treat achieve. Did you did you want to jump in on this?
>> Just specific to cost the tying the number to make it less subjective. Um tying the cost rather than just a number. >> Okay. Anyone else want to weigh in on these?
[laughter] He said disturbance to the forest. [laughter] >> Um and I think I think last time I had um talked about the innovative, efficient and high performing organization >> designation. Um what's interesting to me is is >> all of these other uh um bullets are are I mean clearly reflective. I think well let me just put it out there.
Our conversation about the whole um uh paragine contract >> which you know some of our people in our org chart would would argue that goes directly of becoming more efficient and high performing by integrating information and accessing it more quickly. >> Yeah. >> But when that and as I said before when that runs up against our values >> Yeah. there there there's tension
because and and I I think I said before I mean you can be >> you can be efficient and evil you know you can be a really bad organization just do it really well um and what what organization does not want to be high performing and I just think when when when high performance runs up when we have our managers or people in our orchard come and and and say this will make us more efficient but then it it but for the sake of equity for the sake of our own values and views. Do we do we hinder it, hamper it? Do we So I I guess I mean on its face obviously we'd say yes, but in real world application, you know, how do we really want to be that efficient or high performing? You know, >> related to the conversation conversation earlier today. >> Um so that's just kind of Yeah, that yeah that's that's I believe
that is the language you had from the previous goal. Um and you you would want to apply these value lenses across these. >> Yeah. I mean, I think another example, we, you know, we had we had a rather protracted conversation about um funding our ADUs uh as well just recently, which which was a kind of a innovative kind of thing, but my colleagues and rightfully so.
I'm not saying that they were wrong or I have a problem with it, but there was some reticence about it because of, you know, us putting money forward and how do we I think there was some back and forth this at our last I mean our Monday night meeting um that this was this was something innovative and let's kind of, you know, lean into it and see where it goes. But there was some some reticence, you know, lack of traditional banks wanting to touch it, cities exposure, what it may do in terms of will it do the opposite of what we want it to do. Yeah,
>> but it was all in the name of being innovative and and so I just wonder, you know, when we say it when it's disconnected from real world world examples, it hits different when you start actually applying it. Um, so that that's what's kind of around in my cross. So, >> well, what would you want to make sure you communicated to the community? Like what's important that you'd say this is what we want to be able to deliver?
I think the four boxes prior to this we we we are we're more concerned about our values being protected. >> Yeah. >> Than necessarily being quick or being and and at least from my seat, I've seen that that conversation play out time and time again in many different contexts that we'd rather be true to our values even if it means kicking something down the road or or or not doing it at all. Um, >> yeah.
Thought on this. >> So, are you wanting to just remove the whole thing? Would that be >> Oh, no. No. I'm not I'm not saying we should >> I mean, I'm just asking for a
preference. I just >> No, no. Nate made me talk. I just [laughter] >> He sounds >> Yeah.
I say all that to say I don't know what that >> Yeah. >> yields. But that's just what I was thinking. >> Yeah.
>> So, yeah. Did you did you wanna um suggest a >> Yeah, I say something. [laughter] I'm like, >> next time you don't want me to talk, I will remind you that talk at another time. Um can we either do a safe community or uh safe communities?
Do you see what I'm saying? Like that's driving me crazy. Okay, thank you. >> Um >> teacher.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, come on, we need an article there. Um so, um you know, or safe, you know, it could be safe communities or a safe community.
How about a safe community because >> Yeah. Yeah. So that and I think that that's the one that I have. Okay.
It carries over from the past. I think everyone's on board with it when you go into the goals. Yeah. >> Or the other pieces. There's a lot around >> right >> um you know youth prevention around
violence, you know. So there's So I feel great about that one. >> Yeah. >> The collective economic I don't like broad-based.
I don't know why. Um something to that a synonym that gets it. I like the collective and something but and and I think the same thing the economic prosperity I felt like there was a lot of alignment on council around that. Yeah.
>> Um so again so that's word smithing to me and not necessarily conceptual. Right. >> Um >> so you're okay with it conceptually but just particularly the broadbased >> the collective is fine. broad-based is I don't know is there a synonym that we could >> or would you be okay with just >> um >> collective economic yeah >> that that would maybe work to to the mayor prom's point around innovative efficient if there's a way to get to that thing with goals like we all listed [laughter] you know pay and benefits and promoting that >> um within the organization and outside of the organization if there's a way to figure out how to collapse it somewhere else I'm open to that I'm not super tied to that one because so much of that isn't internal facing and so it's hard to [clears throat] kind of make that
connection out to the community around it. >> Uhhuh. >> Um >> and then >> so so make sure I understand. So for that one would you would you would want to keep that as a goal?
>> I don't know. I don't know if there's ways to get strategies like this the strategy gets you the thing like I'm because so much of that is like about our work >> internally >> internally facing versus what we're doing with community. But I don't I don't know like I'm not that's always been one of the ones that from our former strategic plan >> that so many of the things that are tied to it is really about how are we working and to me a strategic plan I mean it it is internal and external but because this is really being promoted to the community >> I don't know if it >> it like >> you see it as an enabler to >> yeah kind of >> yeah like you you through these things you get those things. >> Yeah.
>> Like through through that you get to these other goals. >> Yeah. I think just to just but not to
interrupt but um you know I think that you within this goal area you would also have delivering on your core services for example. >> Yeah. And that's where the whole, you know, infrastructure piece and housing and transportation because those are those are the biggest buckets of our core services, right? >> So that's where that's where I'm like, are you capturing it somewhere else and then it can go away?
I don't know. >> So So you'd argue maybe pulling that out as a sort of a an internal enabler, something you still track and you focus on, but for the community, for the purpose of sharing that with the community, it's >> Yeah. I mean, that's just a thought. I don't know.
everybody else's. And then with the affordable housing, accessible transportation, I I don't again I think that conceptually something around housing and transportation or if it gets captured in infrastructure, it's it's got to get >> uh >> because infrastructure is big and a lot of times when people think about infrastructure, they think about roads, right? But infrastructure to me also
means like transportation like the buses we purchase, right? Yeah. >> The housing we're helping deliver like that that's infrastructure as well. So I don't know how we say it.
Yeah. >> But I don't want it to just be lost in infrastructure because I think folks hear that and they don't necessarily think about that. >> Yeah. So that would be an argument then that you're making to to keep it pulled out.
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But I I'm not if if there's a way to capture it in that kind of vibrant sustainability intentional infrastructure, it's fine. I just think it needs to be called out somehow.
Yeah. That's all those are my thoughts. >> And that and that that came out in the last session that you wanted to you wanted to elevate it and call it out. Yeah, >> I feel really I feel really strongly about the uh innovative, efficient, high performing um whatever uh the other the old thing is organization.
>> Yeah. >> Um simply because I I think that is one of the most front front-facing community expectations. I mean, think about the the the rail trail, you know, it's like
when is it going to get done? When is it going to get done? Like what what are you guys doing? um you know and uh just around any project you know things just take too long and folks think we're not doing anything that's why we're talking about putting signs up to show the bond results you know um >> so I I think that that allows us to be able to show and it also inter it does allow us the ability to incentivize you know uh proficiency um internally I I think that you know internally and externally this is our strategic plan is how the organization functions uh so and I like a safe community uh because it's overall you know the whole the whole dur community >> but yeah I do feel um most strongly about that one >> I think it's important how we how we deliver >> yeah okay I mean I think what I'm hearing is these five
and mark catch me if but I think these are the right goals with a little bit of word smithing to them like you said >> but that with if you these are these are the major areas of focus that you want to make sure >> you're you're um setting your your agenda around >> what what catches me is the more adjectives we use the more I get caught I've been like, how do we get to that point? >> You know, like housing is what we do. >> Affordable housing is one type of housing. >> Yeah. >> And we need housing at every level, every income level, every type, you know, that we can get. Um, so I just don't want to limit us because of the adjectives we're using around the thing that we do.
Say something. Say something. [laughter] >> No, I think I think what you're saying makes sense in an abstract way, but then >> say that again, >> but then [laughter] >> I never get that. >> You have to you have to say abstract.
>> I was trying to stop it before abstract. >> Sorry. have you have to really consider >> this is why I was saying the 30% makes it specific but I think from the comment about like transportation infra I've sh I've served on a transportation infrastructure committee for the national league of cities and it's together so it makes sense to say like if you're talking about infrastructure if you were to say vibrant and sustainable or vibrant sustainability and intentional housing and transportation or infrastructure transportation and housing. Something like that might be helpful. >> Wait, say that again. >> I I like that because we're not just
talking about just one >> demographic or one economic class or one group of people. We're talking about everybody. And what she just said encompasses the actionable thing that we do. We're being intentional about housing and transportation, infrastructure, what, however you said it.
>> Housing. Well, transportation and housing. And that was what I was trying to say with the 30 because 30% matches any income. Like if you make a million dollars, 30%.
If you make $30,000, 30%. >> I don't think we need to go I I don't even think we need to put the 30%. I think what you just said encompasses it all. >> Yeah.
Vibrant sustainability of equity. It allows us to, you know, address who needs what where. >> Yeah. I I think you could just do intentional and sustainable or something like that.
I think >> intentional and sustainable housing, transportation, and infrastructure. >> Yeah, because then like >> and take out the vibe. >> Yeah, because it's the same thing. Okay. The adjective is too it just gets too like uh woo. Sorry, I'm going to say it
gets so woo like it's like no. Can we deliver on the thing or can we can we not? So, >> I'm going to spend a day thinking about woo and what that means. >> Whole Foods.
[laughter] So then Yeah. So um so then that would that would drop you down to four. >> Yeah. >> And that that would make that would make you happy.
Um >> focus. >> But I guess I'm Mark, you're still >> Don't mind me. >> He's a pastor, so we are [laughter] a counter on the here. >> Yeah.
>> No, I'm I'm I'm vibing with everything. My >> Okay. All right. I think I do want to say I I I think when when you mention the innovative efficient and high performing organization as long as it's not in contrast to one of the other things is the and that's the one that does kind of can conflict with the others. >> Yeah. is like more so than any of the
>> other three. I don't see how I I think the >> just the just just the example he gave just the one >> if it's not safe if if it doesn't build economic prosperity like if it's not going to give us intentional sustainable housing then the innovative you know if it might become secondary it's it's the one for me specifically >> I think that's how we get there though I think secondary >> to me like you know if it's not a safe community then we need to be innovative we need to be efficient high performing organization to get to a safe community economic prosperity. I I think that I think actually the the innovative efficient the third one is the vehicle to actually make all those >> things happen. >> And if it's not Yeah. >> No, I agree with I agree with the mayor and and I I agree. I think though this particular organization has demonstrated that that when we get to that it it it can be uh it's almost kind of like
arguing for a merit-based society. Um, you know, then you start getting into who determines what's meritorious and who's kind of when have you cut corners for merit? Like merit just kind of dropped out of the air as this kind of neutral kind of thing. Like you the people who are determining who's meritorious didn't design the metrics for merit.
>> Um, so yeah. So no, I agree on its face it's perfect. I'm just saying from our own lived experience, my lived experience with this organization and this group that we've run into some tension. And maybe that's a good thing that that's not necessarily a bad thing, but I just wanted for the record to demonstrate that as early as today or as recently as today, we've seen that tension, I think.
>> Yeah. And and you'll see that across these different goal areas and priorities. I mean, that's just naturally. >> Yeah.
Nate, you're gonna jump in. >> Yeah. So, we're talking about collapsing four and five there. Yeah. And turning it into intentional and sustainable housing, transportation,
and infrastructure. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Um, I guess I would just say, you know, I kind of like built a natural environment because it's simple and also because it's not it's it's looking holistically at what a city is and not just housing as one specific thing detached from everything else because housing is attached to everything to services and um retail and commercial and everything else.
So, um, [laughter] we could go around we could go around in circles a lot on this. >> Um, >> I can I can find common ground with with any of these. But >> so Nate, I think what you're saying is you uh so the goal what you want to achieve is uh is an intentional sustainable built natural environment. >> Okay. And I just have to say that my visual uh CDO is not going to let me
look at housing, transportation, and infrastructure. It's either going to be housing, infrastructure, and transportation [laughter] or >> Okay. >> Okay. But um I do like the built-in built-in natural environment because it does take into account um the open spaces and they're not like just infrastructure like uh I think Cabiero was saying it's not just the road the hard like the buses like it's the soft um >> the birds the like the trees all of those things in So I think >> does cover all of it. >> Yeah, I think we I think where we're where we seem to be landing is four and that and that fourth one being collapsed into um intentional and sustainable built and natural environment. Javier, do you are you okay with that
>> or do you like calling it out more? >> I mean, I I think some folks relate to the word built environment, you know? I'm not saying they don't. I just don't know.
Like, everybody knows what housing and transportation is, >> so I don't know. >> Okay. All right. I think what we maybe we're pretty close here.
Um >> and I wonder I mean one we can you can take one of these out to the community and get some feedback and then you can come back to this. I am worried that we you know we could get stuck on this for a while. >> You ever met the Durham City Council? [laughter] >> Right.
Right. >> We agreed on that. >> Yeah. >> Well, the values that was very that was that was quick. All right. Um, I'm going to suggest that we that we move to the priorities, the list of priorities, because we want to go through the ones that you want to take out to the community and then for our
grand finale, we can come back and you can decide which of the which of those verbiage you want to use to take out to the community. Is that okay? Okay. All right.
So um [clears throat] again you identified the these are based off your previous set of goals. So there may be some things that ultimately would move into another goal and that's okay. Staff can do that for you. What we want to what we want to focus on are what are the what are the really important things that you want to see accomplished around this goal.
And so what we did is for the survey, we asked you to to rank these and you've got the scoring here. And what we're what we're trying to do, as Sher said, you've got about three that you in your current plan, taking about five out to the community. We want to see if we can um
we can settle on these five. If there is something that is absolutely missing from here, we you can add it. But our our hope is to get to about five. So let's start with this uh the a safe community goal.
How do these five plan? And then remember there are tactical things within these. Okay. Yeah.
>> Could one and could one and three come together to make five? one and one which >> it's like reduce deaths especially for like reduce deaths completely. >> You you want to combine the reduce gun violence and reduce vehicle deaths as as a single. Okay. Is is that
>> I I think you'd have to say by by what mechanism. So you could do reduced death by gun violence and vehicular, right? But I think you're going to have to name what kind of and those are the two that are the like we know from the data those are the ones that we see the most. But I think you have to call it out specifically.
And I think it would help because we have the reduce gun violence especially for youth. But then that second one create opportunities for youth engagement. And I think that that's one that we really want to I mean at least I'm really interested in making sure because that the youth engagement can come in all kinds of ways. >> Yeah.
>> But it's something that's come up pretty consistently. >> Okay. I will say that I I uh the psych the psychological venue of reducing youth violence um I just I'd like to focus more on positive youth engagement and then reduction of youth violence will be a result of it. >> Yes.
>> Say that again slowly. >> Yeah. uh just the idea of positive focusing on the positive youth engagement. I believe that youth violence reduction is an outcome [clears throat] of that.
But if we're starting with just focusing on youth violence, >> okay, >> when we've left it majority of our kids out, you know, I think we're just starting from the wrong place when we're focusing on youth crime. >> Would would you >> I'm trying I'm trying to address the water rather than the fish. >> Yeah. And so I wonder if you go with that then maybe and may jump in that maybe you would want to keep meaningfully reduce vehicle deaths because that applies not just to you but >> and that's why I think they do need I think they need to be separate because you know vehicular death is you know uh you I mean you you could take the same approach by you know better highway design better better street design. >> Yeah. Um and youth vehicular death will be a reduction by cause effect.
>> Yeah. So I think I think we're saying that first lefth hand bullet we'd we'd drop that if that's you agree uh so you'd have focus on positive youth engagement >> and I think because you're addressing the youth engagement um will lead to gun violence or will lead away from gun violence. I think I think it was what you're trying to say. But then if you were to say that line is in the middle in the middle of the but if you were to say reduce violence um that would capture a lot of the things too. So like if you're trying to stay uh more focused on the the water, the violence that you're addressing will make all the fish So what happens if you properly condition the water, right? >> Positive youth engagement yields more outcomes than just reduction in youth violence, it it produces better job, you
know, engage. >> Well, I'm with you. I'm just saying on the other side, if we reduce the violence and that would Yeah, that would >> well lead to that. When I think about answering the question of how do we create a safe community, the safe community is you know a myriad of things >> you know and when you're focusing on positive youth engagement violence beame become becomes one of the components that will be reduced.
>> Yeah. lack of engagement is a component. Yeah. You know, stronger families, you know, will be a component.
Youth [clears throat] exposure, you know, travel, all those things can be a component of positive youth engagement. But if we're just focusing on violence, uh the reduction of violence, and I think we're just missing so many other opportunities. So, a safe community, you create a safe community by one of many things here in the priorities, positive youth engagement. That way, we wouldn't have to categorize a specific component, we will
benefit from the the mass benefit of all the things that kids been positively positively engaged with can produce. So I think >> I think uh I I would just encourage council throughout this process to u to tell us what you want your outcomes to be and that your words should reflect your outcomes that if you want your outcome to be broad-based youth engagement what we will when when we get into initiative development phase we will deliver broad-based youth engagement. If you want a youth engagement strategy that reduces violence, we will focus on finding initiatives to target youth engagement on reducing violence. Uh so I I if you believe that one will deliver the other, that's good. If you want us to focus on an outcome, I'm asking council to be explicit about the outcome. kind of to
your point about, you know, if you want us if you want the strategic plan to deliver uh narrower roads, then we will get you narrower roads. If you want us to narrow roads to enhance road safety, then the initiatives are going to narrow it. So, I'm not trying to weigh in on one or the other, but if you ask us or ask the take out to the community a list that says do broad-based youth engagement, that may look different than if you say do targeted youth engagement to reduce violence. So, I'm not weighing in on what you want, but what I heard you say is I want to put the words here because I think the outcome will be here.
And I'm just encouraging you to tell us the outcome you want so that we can focus the initiatives as clearly as possible on whatever outcomes council desires. >> Got it. So I'm thinking about the culture of the entirety of the community, right? And I think there's a difference between a priority and a program. >> A priority is
we want to make sure that we're focusing on positive youth engagement. a program is specifically toward reducing violence. That makes sense. >> That's how I'm looking at it.
>> Okay. >> I mean, and I think that's whatever the driver is, whether it's positive youth engagement or it's uh like engagement meaning like a job opportunity versus, you know, a parenting training or like those are all >> which both. >> Yeah. which both will reduce violence just on those two examples.
Um so I I for me I'm thinking about the next time we visit our strategic plan is probably what five years from now. So three three years. So I'm thinking about what is the culture we we're setting >> and then within that culture what programs are like it's it's too many approaches to be that specific in the strategic plan. I think >> yeah, you you really your current plan
has about three things that you're doing in each goal and so you you know we can take more than that out to the community and the community is going to have more ideas. So that's okay to have a few more things. We I think what we want to try to avoid is having like eight or 10 or 12 different things right now because that'll you know that that'll be a lot. Um, so I you know I think if we've got Javier did you did you have a did you want to weigh in on this because we've got a couple of different ideas here and I also want to make sure that we're looking at the just the survey results from your initial set of ideas.
>> Yeah. I mean I think I like the purple ones right now. >> Positive youth engagement. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Okay. Reduce violence. Yeah.
>> Yeah. And I like the I mean I think that the again like I think it's the right it's word smithing maybe but it's it's it's conceptually like correct. I mean and
and based on >> it's what we hear all the time anyway. Yeah. >> Right. And so I think you know >> we we're putting these goals out in front of community but if the goals are completely out of left field from what we hear we're just like >> it's not going to resonate with folks.
So >> yeah, >> we hear this a lot. >> And five is about Yeah, that's about the right level. And then you would have specific programs or initiatives within these >> well somewhere in >> are we are we did you you want to add do you feel like something's not captured? I was just saying and somewhere in there going to have to figure out how to make sure the care because it the positive youth engagement can be undone with uh without caregiver support. So just >> just making sure that Yeah, that comes in someplace. >> Yeah, >> I'm going to suggest we move to the next one.
>> So the next goal would be So, this is these the top five here. If you can read it, you've got it on your on your handout as well. High performing organization. Can you Yeah, there we go.
Um, make it easy to access and view metrics of city goals for the public. Develop comprehensive economic development plan. That potentially could move, again, this is just where you put it. So that could potentially move to um the uh economic prosperity goal.
Keeping uh supporting our employees through paying benefits, efficient government that prioritizes outcomes over process and deliver on promises from the $200 million uh in bonds that you just talked about. So those were those were five and you've got a few other things that receive some votes. So, we want to check anything you
want to pull out, anything that's not represented in these green ones. Yeah. >> And then you >> No, I was just going to say because I'm hoping that it doesn't take us five years. I mean, I'm hoping [snorts] it doesn't take us one year to come up with an economic development plan.
I feel like it's hard to see that as a strategic goal. Like, can that not happen in in this year? Yeah, >> I feel like that's not a long >> That could be something that could be something you pull out from this. I >> I do want to clarify that putting something in the strategic plan doesn't automatically mean it'll take three years.
Um so, you know, I I think for us it's more you telling us what your priorities are and we you can always give us direction about and have conversations with us about your timeline. So, I'm not arguing to keep it in or out, but the inclusion of something like that in the plan doesn't mean it won't be delivered until the plan is complete. >> I would just say by the time you take it
to the public, I would hope that we have something already. So, >> yeah. I uh at what point do we deem a a strategic goal accomplished and it becomes a value in practice? Um we have so many metrics that you can go to.
Yeah, >> that's just a thing that wasn't before but but now is dashboards. >> Yeah. >> Um >> I I think we desperately need a comprehensive economic development plan. Um keep supporting our employees through pay benefits.
We did we we taxed ourselves. We did a market study. We increased pay. That was a big debate uh a few years ago.
And now we you know we I actually talked to a few officers. They said, "Nope, I'm good. I'm I'm good. " you know, so we we have accomplished some things and it's now just it's a practice and we just did the living wage, you know. Um, >> so do you want to argue pulling that out, you think? >> Yeah, I mean I think I think one in three have been accomplished and now
they're just their values because it's what we do. um encourage an efficient government that prioritizes outcomes over I think we we addressed that in the actual um gosh the innovative if yeah in the actual I don't know if it was a pri goal or priority or what but it was one of the four or five things >> yeah so that was the overarching >> goal these would be the things you are doing to help you accomplish >> to reach that right to accomplish it yeah >> so I think that that's repeating you know Um well I maybe not call might say something different. Um deliver on promises from $200 million bond. We just talked about that today you know uh so I could I would take that out.
Empower and incentive good performance. I think that's a duplication of pri priorities u outcomes over process. So I would merge those two. Eradicate food and child care or the necessity
deserts. Um, that's a goal, but that works. That's fine. Adopt social, housing, economic justice.
I think that that is addressed earlier. So, yeah. >> Okay. Um, I'm not sure we got all of that, but just to re and Nate, I know you do you want to weigh in specifically on on that, but >> do I need to repeat it?
Yeah, I think you've got I think you're saying that first one would >> So one and three >> one and three would be pull >> I think we've accomplished. >> Okay. >> And now they're they're practices. >> Okay.
>> Period. >> And then the >> uh de I think we desperately need number two. >> Okay. >> So I highly prioritize that.
>> Okay. >> Encourage an efficient government that prioritizes outcomes over process. I think that really addresses what the overall goal is. But I do think that one, two, three, number four, and number
six, empower and incentivize good performance. I think they're saying the same things, just different words. >> So, so keeping one of those uh >> Yeah. >> Okay.
And then five, delivering on the uh on the promises from the bonds would be something that you would want to >> I think we're doing that now. >> Would you want to keep that over the next three years is something that Yeah, >> I think in general it's not just the bonds, it's just deliver on prom like deliver on our CIP, deliver on our right >> to broaden it a little bit more. >> Yeah. So it's not just about the bonds for me.
It's just like on city projects that we are delivering when we say we're >> we deliver we deliver. >> So that >> we do it efficiently. >> Um >> so that one would stay. >> Yeah.
Because I think that that's something to to the whole point around you know innovative and efficient and high performing. I we've had several updates on like certain projects that have lagged for a long time. I think it's one of the things that the public >> are certainly questioning us on and so I
want to be responsive to that kind of push. >> Okay. >> Um and then can I ask a question with the develop a comprehensive economic development plan? Do we want that one there or do we want it in the shared not what was shared economic prosperity?
>> Now was something else I forgot. So, let's do broadbased economic bee. >> Yeah. Yeah.
>> You want to put it in there? >> I mean, that's what makes sense to me, but that's just I'm one of seven. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
I would just say I think I think most of these could could easily fit in two or three or almost all of the buckets. Um I I wouldn't I wouldn't get rid of any of those um that have the red. First of all, kudos to the notetaker for all the colors and shapes and and [laughter] writing here. uh you're moving so quickly.
It's it's impressive. [clears throat] >> Um yeah. No, I think again like I think >> I really like how intentional we've gotten to this process. Um kind of
collecting every single member up here's ideas, putting them down, going through the process of kind of ranking them. >> Um so I I really like kind of where we where we've landed. [clears throat] >> Um so I just I wanted to state that. um the the top five thing, you know, again, like some of these could have ended up in a different bucket and might have made it into the top five.
And I feel like >> I kind of trust staff to to understand that, you know, if something isn't in the top five in one bucket, it doesn't mean that it's not necessarily a a priority. Didn't make it didn't make it in. >> Um so, I just wanted to just wanted to state those things. >> Yeah.
and your staff would be if something's important to you, they would make sure that it gets in one of the buckets, >> one of the goals. >> Yeah. So, I guess [snorts] >> if if we're speaking directly to to these items, you know, me personally, I >> I did my rankings so they are already incorporated so I can say them again.
But, you know, like for me, I I think I I'd put eradicate food and childcare deserts maybe maybe higher. But >> I also respect this process that we've gone through. Okay. So, I don't know when you pulled this together.
>> I was just going to say I did mine. I don't know when you pulled it this together, but I don't know if mine are in there or not, but >> I think if you did it, they're in there. >> Yeah. Um, so you're making the argument, again, this is not your last take at this.
This is what you want to take out to the community. So, I think um you're making the argument that you could keep these five that are in that are in here as your um as your set of priorities to take out to the community. >> The five um the top five that are are green up there. We were just making notes. >> Yeah.
Oh, put your mic, dear. Yeah. >> Yeah. I I I I guess for me when I think about this category, it it it's almost esoteric for me.
This this is anything that's outward facing that's deliverable to the community. I see this category more as how we're going to deliver it more so than you know I mean delivering eradicating food deserts may be by definition very inefficient process or it could involve you know it's throwing a lot of money at something. Um so anything that you know social house stuff like that that for me this is about how the organization does what it does how it arrives anything any any blanks we fill in or variables we substitute for the end result for me just I I just kind of see that as somewhere else. Yeah. This is about how quickly, how well, how efficiently we deliver whatever it is. When we start getting really
prescriptive like, you know, eradicating food deserts or so, I I >> it's too much. >> Yeah. For me, I I I just think that this is a very inward-f facing kind of selfaware of the organization itself more so than, you know, filling in the blanks of what it's going to efficiently deliver. Yeah, this is certainly your internal but there right now one of these is delivering on some of these you know delivering on the bond as something that would be relevant so the organization delivering on on that would be relevant to the external audience.
So I guess, you know, I guess the question would you be comfortable including these top five to take out and get feedback, you know, letting your letting your team give the give the community a wh why why five? Because I some of these have a lot. Some of them have a few. Some of them could have gone into many different categories. I >> I kind of just like having this that shows how they were ranked in each each category. having the whole list and then
stuff at the bottom of the list and each of these is they're all they're all good ideas. >> Yeah. I think the I guess the question is you know your your structure is one where you typically have about three priorities for each goal and then you have a set of um actions within each. So that's you know there's a lot that's embedded in these three.
Um at this early stage having more than three is fine to take out. You could even go up above five if you need to. I think the question is, is there something really important that's not captured in these top five that you want you want to get the you want to make sure the public has a chance to weigh in on it. So, you could certainly do that.
It's not a magic number, but it's just a a guideline. So, [clears throat] if I was playing with weighing in, so I'll weigh in. Um, you know, I think this this goal has always been a little bit of a challenge uh for council. Um, I I would just say since this is the
inward-f facing goal, you know, I I would just reiterate that that we as an organization take it as seriously that this be specific and achievable and uh as the other four goals. And I think my observation is the the council does uh spend a portion of its time talking to us about how we do the work. So I I do think like delivering on the bonds or recent conversations about how long certain projects take, you know, those can spur us to develop very specific initiatives around the performance of the government. And so, you know, to the extent that this reflects those types of initiatives or gives residents a place to name or rank their initiatives, that's how it's valuable to us.
I I completely concur that it's our job to do all the things as innovatively and as efficiently as possible. You know, residents could tell us they want us to have 247 customer service. they may tell
us, you know, that that, you know, they want a certain type of access to a certain type of department that they don't have right now. And so I do think for us, you know, I I acknowledge that some of these things are things we always do. Those may or may not be the best priorities in this item, but that we are very prepared to respond to council or the community's directives as they pertain to priorities here. So, I'll leave it at that.
I'm not advocating for any particular priorities in in you know specifically but um you know I don't want council thinking that we take some of you know for I guess the other one you know the mayor you made a comment about pay and benefits you know there are definitely things we've done that show clear commitment to pay and benefits in the past we will have very hard decisions to make going forward about pay and benefits and depending on what council tells us about how you want us to prioritize those things you know that will be weighed against your other priorities. So, I'll I'll leave my comments there. I'm not again not arguing for any specifics, but I do want
you to feel comfortable ranking or prioritizing things that impact how we do it. >> So, we've got up there, as you can see, for what would be the priorities that you would take out. We've just ticking notes. Thanks, Danielle.
We feel okay about taking these out. We missing is there something that we're really missing, Nate? >> Take I'm sorry. I say that again.
taking. >> Yeah. So, we're just just based on your feedback just organized it around these four to the right. So, the first the economic development plan might be something that would go in another um >> category.
Yeah. >> Like >> Yeah. >> Like the shared economic >> Yeah. But we wanted to we put it that's someone put it there. So that's why we we kept it there. So that if that that's still important and that would just this you would have staff move that to another category.
Okay, let's go to the let's go to the third one. This this is this one the second one is a little bit tougher. Um so this this was the previous framing of it. Um we can zoom in a little bit.
You can see the top five. There we go. Um yeah, you can read it. Make our own neighborhoods more diverse, affordable, walkable, mixed use, true walkable retail street.
Grow and implement transit access, including BRT, Capital Transit, percentage of residents living within a quarter mile walk, public park, playground, greenways, strengthen the um city's long range planning. I think >> what's that? >> Keep all the keep all the ones in the whole list. >> Yeah. So that would be and this is this is a bigger category of things.
I >> feel like you can collapse some of them though. >> You want you want to give it a shot? >> Um I mean you're seeing like establish more parks in open space and it's like grow a percentage of residents living within a quarter mile. Well, I mean, the only way to do that is to establish more parks in open space.
>> So, create a create a true walkable retail street almost sounds polyimal. I mean, as a as opposed to untrue one. What What is What is >> Yeah. I mean, yeah.
>> Yeah. Can you use normal words? >> It's not like we fight arguments [laughter] strike. This is what we captured on one of one of you wrote this on a sticky note. So, we wanted to [laughter] >> strike the word true >> um >> maybe not the own make our own
neighborhoods like people are going to be like oh just the council members neighborhoods. Um sorry just like right like make our neighborhoods more diverse affordable walkable mixed use >> and walkables in the first line as well then we talk about walkable in the second one as well can we collapse those >> so collapse one and two but the the second one is specifically has a retail >> street so maybe I don't know >> well mixed use doesn't in imply retail >> affordable walkable diverse neighborhoods doesn't imply Right. >> I mean, if we want to explicitly use retail, but I if it's a if there's mixed use in the that's not just referring to housing, is it? open as far as people understanding what that means. I know what that means just because it's the goal of DDI, but it's because they've done presentations
in front of council about it. >> Well, we've got walkable in both lines, so we can collapse that at least, right? >> I just caution, you know, being too prescriptive on type uh if it's something that [clears throat] is out of our um control. Like I I know we talk about, you know, we we've denied some cases because it didn't have a commercial component to it and as a small business owner, I know I wouldn't put some I would put a commercial space in some areas until it has more of a a market grab around it.
Um, but if we have that goal and it directly conflicts with what's feasible privately, >> I think to the mayor's point, well, in and to that point, how do we make how do we make something more affordable? That was my point earlier. >> Yeah. What what are our tools to we can't do price we the council can't dictate prices or anything. >> Yeah. As you know some of these are things you can directly do as government
some things you can have influence over or for partner you know. So >> yeah, that was my point about, you know, while my bias is, you know, toward residents who are less fortunate, uh the reality is not every resident is in that situation. And uh I don't want to neglect someone like housing is what we do. >> We and and our our goals are to make sure it's accessible and attainable.
That looks different to anyone. our mo main focus is mostly on affordable. >> Yeah. And that and housing is actually the ideas around that are in another um one that we'll get to and I think when you now that you've reorganized this that'll go into that'll fall into this bucket.
Yeah. So staff is going to have to move these around. >> Okay. Well, in that case because some are moving here and we're only trying to take like five out to community. I mean, I think we will have to collapse some. I
don't know. I think the the the piece around I mean, it is in the comp plan, right? So, like that whole piece around um >> Yeah. So, just to take it.
So, anything that seems a little redundant maybe like I think like the two park ones are important, you know, >> the the >> establish more parks and open spaces and then the grow the percentage of residents living within like those are similar, right? >> Okay. I'm sorry, Warren. Just real quick, we will Yes, we will go ahead because some of them are very similar and I think we're going to get to our um economy.
Yeah. Yes. And there's a lot of similar ones in there, too. We will certainly do that.
And also, just remember, too, when we go out to the community, we are going to we're going to change we're going to have to change the language, right? Use some plain language words. So, we're also we'll be working on that as well. >> So, so we can um you're comfortable with that. the important things that you want are on this list. Staff can potentially
reword collapse. Um, but we want to make sure there's not some But this is one where you want you're going to want to include a few more things it sounds like, than you were >> if the housing >> because it's a big Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Okay.
>> Um, Sherry, >> one more thing. Um, because you did collapse those two. Um, we will we'll need to do more than five. I mean, yeah.
Yes, there is a there is now a lot included in that goal. And so, we want to make sure we're including including um priorities around housing, around transportation, around um environmental. Yes. So, you're not going to be locked into that five number for that one for sure.
>> And so, Sher, is staff comfortable in keeping all of these that are in here? >> Yes. Okay. This one.
Yes. >> Okay. All right. So, let's go.
We'll go to the next. This is the economic prosperity. This had a lot and there's a lot of energy around this. Um,
so we've got our top five. So I think our question again is if you look at these top five, is there something that's just absolutely not covered in these top five that you want to make sure you bring out to the community? Again, staff will will do a little bit of language word smithing on these. >> I I think same thing like there's some things that could get collapsed and you're going to get to the same intent.
So, I think overall >> like I I may have ranked it low on my own just because I was seeing it. You know what I'm saying? Like I'm like, well, that that that's the same as this or it's similar enough or that it's the same idea or whatever, you know? >> Okay.
>> And then I think the comprehensive the that comprehensive plan one would need to get moved here. The cultivate comprehensive economic oh the oh the comprehensive economic development plan >> would get what needs to be in here in here. Yeah, >> it would go in here and I think a lot of these would just become kind of like bullets >> of that plan, right? Like to me that
ends up becoming the number one thing that we want to make sure goes out to community. >> Okay. So, yeah. No, that's weird.
we would be moving the comprehensive economic development plan into this category and then the the thought from council is that some of these would be sort of within that fall under that. >> Yes. Yes. >> Okay.
>> And there are a lot of similar >> Yeah. For sure. >> I go ahead. >> No, go ahead. I um I I want to uh kind of hold in tention mobility and prosperity and and one we say establish a framework for economic mobility. But then for our youth is prosperity what we want to use for our youth at at that point in their development or >> oh >> maybe mobility for them or we talk about mobility in the second point and then >> economic opportunity >> something would that be a
>> I I think the opportunity and I think we've got it here somewhere like you know these ideas of around pathways for students right as they as providing them either access to internships, support in finding a job, you you know things like that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Exactly.
>> Okay. That's is that good. >> Yeah. Absolutely.
I was just struggling with prosperity or youth burdening them with that. >> Yeah. No, that's not for them. That's for them to build the skills to get Yeah.
Build the skills to get to the prosperity, >> right? >> Yeah. >> I Yeah. The word small uh the word small and the word business is used a lot in here but it in no way form or fashion does it talk about supporting small businesses and if we were to take small business the the workerowned businesses to the small business community like that is a con concept that we talk about well that's talked about here that is not a practical thing that is actually I mean it is a practical concept yes but that's
not what's happening at D in mass And we we've it's it's a it's something we've talked about in the past, but I think we need to explicitly in some form of fashion talk about supporting the small business community. Durham is like 90 95% small businesses and we're not really talk Yeah, we're not talking about that at all. But but but worker own like I I my employee my my team members they don't want to own my restaurant and I don't want them to own my restaurant. I I took on that risk and that's what I went into business for you know.
So I just don't think that's like I I don't think that's like what's happening all over the place. I do think it's something that is happening some places. But I think we need to explicitly talk about one of our biggest and greatest assets in Durham. That's our small business community.
So that Yeah. So we're just taking some notes. We want to keep that third that third line there, but just rework it a little bit. Support because right now
>> Well, I think they're two separate things. What? >> Oh, separated out. Okay.
>> I think worker owned businesses is something totally different than supporting small businesses. Okay. >> They will eventually become that, but I think there are two different focuses >> and that you'd like to you'd like to to have those separated and both include. Okay.
Got it. >> Okay. >> All right. I just don't want to lose the workerowned piece and I don't know where we put it but um it has come up many many years and and to the I mean >> you don't want to lose it.
>> No, I don't I mean it needs to be really called out somewhere. I don't >> Okay, >> but for me to to the mayor's point, yeah, right now there might be those small businesses, but what you see is within a generation those businesses will close down if there's not a plan, >> okay, >> to keep them going. Especially the really small like >> one owner two, right? like it people get people want to shift it and then you you lose that >> opportunity and so what you see some long-term small business owners do I've been in this thing for 20 years I've been in this thing for 30 years I'm tired I want to retire >> but I don't want this thing to go away after 30 years of my blood sweat and tears oh owners can take it over and to
the mayor's point it's less risk for them so the risk isn't being carried by that one owner which is why there's a lot of power in that >> um >> in that model right it's a way for for long-term small business owners to to leave their legacy intact. >> Justform informationally, we did just sign anou with Dawi um making this making their resources available uh with for OEWD. And so I just wanted to let you know there is an initiative underway uh and and Joshua Gun is uh leading that partnership and my thanks to Council Member Baker and Council Members Ris who uh kind of brought some resources to us in that space. Yeah, I Yeah, I think they they're both >> they're both important.
Um, >> but I do think they need to be explicitly stated >> separate. >> It could the the grow the work the worker owner could go down with the strengthening no where is it? Uh bring bring better tools for worker ownership and co-ops. >> Okay. Yep. Okay.
>> Okay. >> Perfect. >> So, we've got we probably have about seven for this. That's probably a pretty good number.
Again, bring that out to the community. Let them weigh in on it. You can come back and have another crack at it. Okay.
Um, let's Danielle, we've got I think one more. One more. Okay. >> Oh my goodness.
So, this is this is a goal that that uh you won't have going forward, but these priorities are ones that staff can move into one of the other goals. So, we want to make sure that the we don't lose these. So, if you're if you if you feel that these are important, then you can direct staff to go ahead and populate them. Nate, you want to weigh in on >> Yeah, I'll just say I I love to Top four.
>> Top four. >> Yeah, I love the top four. Um, and I don't know.
I I would want to know more about what is meant by encourage more investment in historic neighborhoods. I would I would rather it be kind of like disinvested, invest in the disinvested neighborhoods. um or bringing in this one that I really want from of uh eliminating eradicating food and childcare deserts. I would love to get that one in somewhere.
I >> Sherry. >> Yes, >> I agree. >> I'm fine with the child care and food desert piece, but then it needs I mean we're not that's not our lane. Like that is the county lane and I like want to be a good partner to them, but that is that is not our charge.
Um so I just want to be real careful because we already struggle that with that with residents, right? and and when you pay a property tax bill, more than, you know, like 60% does go to the county and I think 42% comes to the city of Durham. So, I don't want to shop out in the community that
we're going to take on more responsibility for public policy issues that are are quite frankly not our historic lane. >> Yeah, I I disagree with that. I think it does involve collaboration with the county and I wouldn't want to tell the community, hey, we're going to go and eradicate these enormous challenges, you know, in five years, you know, but that's the north star and land use is a big part of that and zoning is a big part of that. But >> so could you direct >> I I also respect uh comments made by my colleague here.
>> Yeah. Can I also add I think the way that the city would do it is different. And so it's like if parks and wreck is is in partnership with a childare center or if uh you know parks and wreck has a food truck you know ro like those are things that we would I think they're in our lane differently and the county does does it in more of a food security way but we can do it more in an economic way. And so there's opportunities. That's all.
>> So would you be comfortable with staff just wording it so that it's partnering or support or something so it's not uh an explicit >> or you can tie it to economic drivers, right? But like there has it has to tie into our core work or we're just we're just expanding our portfolio and then we're going to do the things that we're supposed to really be doing less well. Okay. >> Right.
So that's where I'm at. >> Okay. Okay. And and then just really quickly and y'all named it, but you know it the the increased public transportation that was kind of captured in that BRT one and and I do think I mean a strategic plan is three to five years and BRT is >> like that is where we're going to be putting our a lot of our transit dollars.
So I don't actually want to lose the focus around BRT. So it is yes transit and and walkability but like BRT yeah um because that's where that's where the federal grant dollars are going things like that. Um, and then >> so this one would this one would go into that other >> Yeah, it can collapse into that other
goal and then um >> I I agree with Council Member Baker around historic neighborhoods. I mean, there are historic neighborhoods have gotten a lot of investment over the years and um they're beautiful and we need to make sure that all of the historic neighborhoods get that investment, right? So I I would want to figure out same that dis that there's some neighborhoods that were disinvested in. So that same kind of emphasis on um I mean it goes back to the value of equity, right?
>> Yeah. So that gets to the the manager's um directive understanding the outcome that you want to get to and I think staff can work on the wording that that can go out to the public on that. And I would just say I would probably [snorts] copy this because I do think that the land use piece is part of the food deserts and the child care, but the entrepreneurship of being in child care or starting a food business would go into
um I guess the economic development planning. >> Sorry, say make sure I'm we're tracking. I would make the e the entrepreneurship of child care and food industry like a priority under the economic development plan. >> Okay.
Agreed. >> Like knowing we have deserts >> calling out the entrepreneurship of starting a child care or a food based business. >> Yeah. Like if somebody's to present an idea of like >> that should be under the economic development side.
This you might want to say specifically around land use considering you know the food deserts or childcare deserts. >> Okay. Okay. >> Because it's about you know the connected communities.
>> Okay. Yeah. Mark. >> Yes.
So I I this one prompted a a lot of questions um for me. Um firstly explore citywide housing strategy to offer affordable housing to all dermites the rich ones too. I I I I
guess I was um and you know, you say like social housing rent stabilized are I are we telegraphing that we're going after at a at a state legislative level the ability to do rent control you know and I I just want to telegraph I think it's been inoned already you know realistic kind of um you know things so what do we rent stabilizing when we say to all dermites are you know so if you're wealthy but want to live in a an affordable housing unit that's available to you is is is so I'm just wondering what what what does that mean uh practically um overhauling Durham's homeless overhauling the whole system overhauling it to ensure the best possible outcomes for unhouse populations again to I think council member Cabierro's that by definition involves the county we've got a continuum of care for homelessness now are we are we suggesting that it's is this editorial about current efficacy. Are we saying it's failing? Needs to be, you know,
overhauled and best possible outcomes as opposed to the ones we're getting now. I I I guess some of the language for me is is just um a bit squishy and and you know, homelessness involves the county again uh as well. And proactive about preventing gentrification and displacement. I'm not I'm not sure I know what that proactively preventing it.
do are we going to assert ourselves now in private sales of land um or kind of set up a nexus or or or you know a matrix of who and when you can sell and who you can sell to. Is that really within the purview of you know a local uh government? Um I like the idea. I wish we could be proactive about it but we we've learned historically that even sometimes when the government spends money to improve areas that has actually spurred gentrification.
Yeah. Allah southside. Um, so I just, you know, it's a bit some of the language just I I don't really understand
what that looks like in terms of actual >> Yeah. >> policies and actions. >> Yeah. And these, you know, again, these these were lang these were priorities that you all um captured.
And so we've got >> I know we get it. You try to say we >> I know. I'm just [laughter] but and I think it's good because then we get it out there and then you can look at and then then when we know what the outcome is that you want or the questions that you have then staff can then words smmith this to before it goes out to the public. So, um I Yeah, I I guess before we just jump in, I think Sherry, we've got we we've we have some input on housing and unhoused from the previous goal. I think that I I think we do, but these would fall into the other um the these would fall into the other goal area and into um the infrastructure into the
vibrant. Yeah. The vibrant. >> Yeah.
Okay. Um, and so I guess my question is, do we does staff need more guidance beyond this in terms of words smmithing these particularly these? >> Well, I mean, we could we could word smith all day. Um, no, I think I think we're good.
I think we're good. I mean, we're going to be going out to communities. We're going to keep these pretty >> short, high level. Um, otherwise, you know, survey for a resident is going to take them 20 minutes.
We don't want to ask that. But yes, so we'll we'll go ahead and go through these and um yeah, simplify them and take them all. And we do have a very large goal, so there's going to be quite a few. Yeah.
>> On that one, >> I want to be clear. I for me I I mean I'm not not I'm not I'm not trying to be cutesy about it. I literally do not. So it's not just about word smithing for me on these.
It's about I literally do not understand the the concept. Yeah. >> Of what that, you know, means. Um so I
just want to be, you know, clear. It's not it's not just for me at least language. I'm talking about actual meaning and concept. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. No, that's >> Do you want to >> I think in in practice it's 505 West Chapel Hill Street, you know, creating some options there that would prevent gentrification, so to speak, or displacement, giving folks opportunity. Liberty Street. Like I think we're doing that, but we need a whole lot more outside of just downtown.
I think um what we're doing on Feville Street also uh if we don't get it done, then gentrification will take hold. >> I'm not sure I understand. What do you mean by five? So being proactive about adding housing to 505 chap West Chapel Hill Street or doing the partnership with the bond for uh Liberty Street. Um well now it's the Ven what I'm sorry the Vanguard and what you see with the
county with 50 500 West Main I mean East Maine and 300 [snorts] East Maine. Those are projects that are working proactively to try and prevent gentrification um from taking hold whether it's rental or ownership um partnering with Habitat, you know, like those are the things that we're doing to prevent gentrification or displacement. >> Yeah, I I saw them as increasing our affordable housing. I >> I think both they're >> maybe I maybe >> if we increase the portable it's like the the positive youth engagement however you name it >> I I think >> the outcome is to prevent the displacement. >> My my biggest fear is when we do take this to the community projecting things that we can't deliver on and again I I talked about this earlier you know like I I take I I'm really worried about that very first one. like council mavier just she's she just presented a housing strategy that had a
lot of people in it and it again we do housing you know uh and I just don't want I was at an at a forum last night actually and a lady came up to me and she said um what about people who don't need affordable housing and and I you know it was it was it was a bit jarring because every question that we're asked in the community is about you affordable housing >> and even advocates who talk about housing, they talk about affordable housing even though they may live in a million-dollar home. So, I I I want to be very careful like when it says explore citywide housing strategy to offer affordable housing to all durmites like I again I I go back to the housing strategy that was done because it addresses a housing strategy for everyone. We need house all housing types at all income levels. uh it's impractical to only focus on one type of housing and >> would it would you would you be comfortable for the purpose of the
community input having something broader like that exploring a housing strategy >> and I'm oh sorry go ahead >> do you I don't I don't know that the city's government would get involved in any other form like I don't think you get involved with luxury like we're not going to build luxury housing >> no we do housing housing comes before us either way I mean not every not project comes before us is affordable housing. They most of overwhelmingly most of them have a percentage that they profer. >> You're talking about zoning cases. But I'm talking about staff actually doing projects.
Is there any other type of housing we would get involved in like put tax dollars towards other than >> What I'm saying is I don't think we should limit ourselves. I think we we do housing >> rather than than you know like either. So, you feel like you feel like the city should participate in some type of luxury housing project? >> Not necessarily luxury housing, but for example, let's say we're trying like what's happening with DHA right now.
We're supporting DHA. Uh DHA is no longer building just one income level housing. They're supplementing market rate with the the required units that they have. And we do want to partner with those projects to expand the capacity overall to be able to house more people, especially the folks that need it most.
So either we go explore a housing strategy to offer affordable housing to dermites or you know but to all I just think that of course you guys can do some work play but I I'm very sensitive to what the expectations will be like rent stabilized um includes social housing like those are concepts but when it goes when it leaves this room folks are not going to be as policy rich as we And we have to be really sensitive to that, you know, um cuz someone may come back and be like, well, the city council ask us how can we do affordable housing. Then they come back and say, we want only affordable housing. And I don't want to put us in a position, >> you know, a position where we're overly
prescriptive and we get to the point where we can't put any action behind it aware of policy. >> So Danielle's just listening and taking and just replacing it. So broadening it and not having as much specificity as that one. It goes back to overuse of adjectives.
>> Yeah. >> The more adjectives, the less action that we can do because it becomes more subjective. >> But if you, this is what I'm saying. So if you already have a housing strategy that covers everything, there's never enough like in this convers like there's never going to be like enough that we can do like we can't afford to do all of the affordable housing.
That's the piece we need to focus on. That's the reason we did the 30% AMI as opposed to the 60 for Willard Street or other projects. >> Yeah, I think it's Yeah, I think it's just a matter of uh just what can we actionably put forth because we're saying we council, you know, not the Durham Council for 10% of the population
or something like that. >> So, yeah. And so, it's worded now as is a focus on a housing strategy to offer affordable housing. um so sort of focusing it in but not getting into the detail of rent stabilization or >> I can deal with I can deal with that >> but since it's inclusive communities would it should we say mixed >> yeah well this this goal would go this goal is going away >> yeah it's getting collapsed in the other one that's I'm kind of because this is moving into the other one it's kind of hard to actually see what's happening so I just think um Um yeah, I think housing, let me see, exploring housing.
>> I guess it would be affordable housing options to duramites or to you know because I mean to the so some of the things we may get into is actually providing workforce housing which is not the same as 30%. And that is not right. So like Right. So it's like I don't want
to >> like >> Yeah. >> Right. This is still pretty broad, I think. >> Right.
So, as long as it's Yeah, broad is fine. I just don't We have >> I think broad housing strategies for different types of populations is how we're going to get ahead. That that's that's that's going to end up being because 30 to I mean the amount of 100% AMI for a family of four right now is like $120,000 for for us. So there's a whole bunch of people who fall well out of that who are not 30% AMI either.
Do you see what I'm saying? So like our housing strategies will maybe need to be broader than what we had to deliver with Willard Street just because of our area and median income increasing over the last few years. So I think >> so having somehow putting it out into the community that we want to prioritize a multitude of ways to deliver housing. Would you want to keep the home the the second one the unhoused population
as part of that? >> I think unhoused folks also need housing. So you're kind of the mayor's point, right? That's what the task force did and we didn't get to [clears throat] talk about it today, but like >> that's the point.
The point is different strategies are going to be different target populations. >> Okay. So >> the city may have to do a lot of those types of strategies. >> Okay.
>> Yeah. >> And it's just going to keep coming back. When I So when I said 30% affordable, it's 30% affordable to whatever income. So if you have zero income, 30% of zero is zero.
So it's still like instead of saying affordable, it is that 30% of whatever you can pay as opposed to just saying affordable. So it's different from the 30% AMI, 60% AMI. This is like 30% of what you have to pay out in a month or what? Yeah.
>> Um >> going to keep coming back to that. >> Thanks. I'll just add um the second one, the overhaul of Durham's homelessness. Yeah. We're actually enga right now we're moving forward with a strategic
plan. Okay. >> Um on on that particular >> So you want to keep that in >> Yeah. Yeah.
And I don't know if we want to reward it, but Okay. But we are moving forward with a a a bold um strategic plan in that area. Um, I actually still like I still like the increased public transportation use um in addition to the BRT kind of >> okay >> both. Um, I like [clears throat] the wording of the first one, but I, you know, if we want to if we need to modify it, um, I'd be open to that.
And I have to go and I love you all. >> Well, wait before you before can you can you wait just like a couple minutes, Nate? Okay. Okay.
>> All right. So, we I think we've got we've gone through all of the goals. You are very patient with this process, but we wanted to respect what you put up there and work with that rather than having staff work on it and then you see something you're like, where did our words go? So, that's why it's a little
sort of it takes a little more time to do it this way. But I think what you've done is you've given staff uh the direction that they need to be able to work these to a point where they can then take it out to the public. And so the next step is that do you want to I can share the next step is that the staff is going to we'll work with this to take these notes put it in a form and I think it's really next week or the week after that this would uh go out and the community engagement will begin. >> Did you have a question?
>> Yeah. >> I'm so sorry. Could you go back one one movement thing? Is this prey?
What is this? >> It's a it's like a mural board. Yeah. Okay.
>> Yeah. To wipe a whiteboard. Yeah. >> We're has we're uh be proactive about preventing gentrification and displacement.
>> Can we say uh be proactive about promoting revitalization? >> Okay. Um >> no.
>> They call it urban rural. >> Yeah. >> I mean that could speak to also government investment in bettering a neighborhood. >> Yeah.
I mean trying to be like what do we move forward rather than just not like trying to make something make sure something doesn't happen. Revitalization gives us like that that permissive forward thinking. >> We could just say investment though, right? Or something like because the revitalization folks also are commenting on that word now.
>> Um >> so we're broadening it to revitalization and investment. >> Yeah. Or just Yeah. I mean like however we want to do it.
public dollars in a thing is essentially what all of these things are. The reason, however you do it, it's public, it's public money. It's collective money to improve a thing. However you whatever fancy word we have to say it or not, like that's essentially what our projects are.
Our projects are taking public dollars and putting them in something to improve it. >> Whatever we say, I don't want to get rid of displacement though, you know, preventing displacement. >> Absolutely. Okay. I I I was going to say
something about uh increased transportation use until council mccabiro had recommended in um collapsing with BRT because when I read increased transportation use I don't read that as it says use I so I'm thinking about what we currently have. So I'm reading that as getting more folk to ride the buses that exist right now as opposed to expanding the transportation footprint or making it more robust use. If it's increased transportation use, yeah, that means what we have right now, use it more. >> Um, so when when it was recommended to collapse, that's why I didn't say anything.
But if we're going to if we're going to leave that, >> then when I read as a lay person, I would just say, "Oh, they want me to ride the bus more. " And I think that's qualitatively different than making our options more robust, route expansion, adding lines. >> To me, that's saying you need to use more we have right now, which I think is a good thing. Yeah.
By the way, >> and I think you need both. >> Yeah. So, we would keep both. I think you would say keep both. >> I mean, you don't get the BRT projects. You don't get better transit unless you
have higher use. And you don't get the transit if there aren't people living in a space to get to the thing. >> Or the BRT is for a specific type of user that already exists, right? >> That we're catering to a specific niche, >> right, >> rider, you know, who's working certain places.
And it may, but we want to make usage more, you know, we want to increase band, >> right, >> Nate? Thank you. Any We're We're We're uh we're at the end point. Sherry, do you want to um just next steps?
>> Yes. So, next step, [laughter] >> sorry. >> Um yes, we're going to take all this information. We obviously have some work to do here, but yes, so we have um community conversations we're going to be starting in another week or so.
And so, they're going to be going out um that new department. And then we're going to have a survey that will be going out and also using our annual resident satisfaction survey. Um we'll be all back to you again in February with all with all that data summarized for you all um to go ahead and make that final framework before we start phase two. Thank you so much. I'm sorry I feel like I'm like you [laughter] >> but um this is this has been very
[clears throat] helpful. So thank you so much to everyone. And um did you have a few did you have anything to add or >> anyone else want to add anything? Uh before we close, I just want to thank Warren and Danielle who've done a fantastic job as our facilitators and >> thank you >> uh and our staff who've put a lot of work in between September and now to try and get this in a usable format.
I know this can be uh a little bit tireing and tedious uh but it's really really important and we're looking forward to doing great things with the work that you've given us. >> [clears throat] >> This this doesn't have anything to do with the strategic plan and I should have brought it up under other matters, but um bringing the housing task force to subsequent work sessions. Um so I just wanted to flag that for my colleagues. I've already asked the mayor if that is something that can happen and he said yes. And um under other matters as well, uh you may have remember a conversation about making a designation about the Durham
Museum of History, officially designating that. Um Mr. Mayor, I'd like to put that on our radar, uh as well. >> Yep.
>> All right. >> So, just as a reminder, process-wise, uh council members, you will work with your staff to to put that on the agenda for a future meeting. uh I I will schedule it but you you will enter it and then once it's at that meeting if there is a desire for council for staff to do analysis or work the council will direct staff at that time. >> Thank you >> mayor.
>> All right guys, thank you all so much. We've settled the agenda. We are officially adjourned at 509. >> Thank you. >> Great. Thank you.