City Council · Regular Meeting · October 6, 2025

Freeman for the Pledge of Allegiance. Thank you. It's our practice to stand, salute the flag, and say the pledge together. If you'd like to join us.

Thank you. Madam Clerk, will you please call the roll? Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

Mayor Williams? >> I'm here. Mayor Pro Tem Middleton? I'm here.

Council Member Baker? Here. Council Member Caballero? Here.

Council Member Cook? Here. Council Member Freeman? Present.

>> Council Member Reese? Here. Thank you. Thank you.

And I'm going to ask that tech comes to get my iPad as well, if you can hear me. All right, we'll get to the uh proclamations. Yeah, I'm number one.

All right, I have the honor of uh presenting the proclamation for MED Week. Uh Minority Enterprise Development Week. And I have the team here led by Ms. Sheila Faucette.

Are you ready? Good evening. So, whereas this is our proclamation, whereas Minority E- Minority Enterprise Development Week also known as MED Week is observed in October to recognize and celebrate the achievements and contributions of the minority business enterprise community. Through ingenuity, innovation, and tenacity, many minority and women entrepreneurs are shining examples of the 2025 MED Week theme, celebrating people, profits, and productivity. And whereas one of the City of Durham's primary goals is shared economic prosperity. The Equal Business Opportunity Program EBOB increases opportunities for historically underutilized businesses and promotes

diversity and inclusion in the city's contracting marketplace. Whereas the city and whereas the City of Durham encourages and actively seeks participation by minority and women-owned businesses and enterprise business enterprises for advertised projects, the City of Durham is committed to the ongoing evaluation of its policies, procedures, and practices so that it this business is conducted in a manner that ensures minority and women businesses receive equitable access to all available opportunities. And whereas minority and women-owned businesses are key components of the city, state, and national economy and are to be honored not only as valued resources for the provision of goods and services but vital to our economic success. Now, therefore, I Leonardo Williams, Mayor of the City of Durham, North Carolina, do hereby proclaim October 2020 through 24, 2025 as Minority Enterprise Development Week in Durham and recommend its observance to all

citizens. So, witness my hand and the corporate seal of the City of Durham, North Carolina, this 6th day of October, 2025. And I'll add that it in in this in today's climate at the federal level, this is considered uh something that we shouldn't say. But what I'll say to them is welcome to Durham.

We'll also always stand on our values. Thank you. [Applause] Good evening and thank you, Mayor Williams, Mayor Pro Tem Middleton, council members, and those who join us in chambers and online tonight. I am Sheila Faucette, the Deputy CFO, and I have the underutilized business compliance team with me. Timothy Jackson, our underutilized business compliance manager, as well as Sydney Anderson, our business service administrator. It is an honor for us to accept this

proclamation for Minority Enterprise Development Week. Minority Enterprise Development Week is known as MED Week is observed in October. MED Week serves to to recognize the outstanding accomplishments of minority business enterprises and to honor those corporations and financial institutions supporting minority business development. This year, the City of Durham will recognize MED Week with a series of events from October 20th through the 24th.

Our theme is celebrating people, profits, and productivity. Our goal is to provide educational events and to create a culture of belonging. Curtis Ray Hill, speaker, author, and president of Culture of Belonging Incorporated, will provide us with a keynote address during our celebration program on Monday, October 20th. During our Friday Lunch and Learn, Jonathan Collins, Business Solutions Officer from the Carolina Small Business

Development Fund, will share practical guidance on preparing the commercial lending process. Collins will also introduce the Durham Opportunity Loan Program backed by the City of Durham and how local entrepreneurs can leverage that program to grow their business. Attendees, if eligible, will actually be able to start the application process on site. We invite Durham residents and businesses to visit the MED Week page at the City of Durham's website for more information about our MED Week events.

During the celebration program, we will recognize and celebrate the achievements of minority businesses and organizations, which will reaffirm our commitment to the principle of equal opportunity. We would like to encourage all Durham residents to support our minority and women-owned businesses as they are essential to our economy and to keeping the Durham a great place to live, work, and play. We appreciate the proclamation and we look forward to the possibility

of seeing you at MED Week on the week of October 20th. Thank you very much. [Applause] Good evening, residents, council members. Good to see everyone.

Uh can I call up Joe Luna from the City of Durham? Yeah. Or all of you can come out here. Um so, yeah, come on up.

Yeah. Um I have the privilege of being the council's liaison to two important bodies. One's called the Upper Neuse River Basin Association. The other is Jordan Lake One Water. Oh, yeah, sorry.

The other is Jordan Lake One Water. These are two bodies that work we're working on a daily basis to make sure that Durham is part of our um cities around this region is part of a structure to make sure we have clean water from our lakes on a daily basis. Um I've also been on a tour, thanks to the water management folks, a tour of the water facilities here and I've seen the amazing expertise of folks who work behind the scenes daily to make sure we have fresh, clean, affordable water in Durham delivered every day. We can't take that uh for for granted.

So, I'd like to read this proclamation um for Imagine a Day Without Water Day. Whereas water is our most valuable natural resource and one that is absolutely vital to the quality of life for all residents of the City of Durham and Durham County. And whereas Durham's water customers each use nearly 31 million gallons of fresh, high-quality water every day. Whereas dedicated city employees work every day to ensure delivery of this valuable commodity by careful management of the water supplies, vigilant operation of the treatment

facilities, and attentive maintenance of the distribution system. And whereas the critical infrastructure and investment needed to deliver this precious resource are too often overlooked, misunderstood, and underappreciated. And whereas changes in our climate due to extreme weather events are likely to place additional strains and pressures on our water supplies. And whereas investing in our drinking and waste water systems now will ensure a healthy and prosperous Durham community for many generations to come.

Now therefore I Leonardo Williams, mayor of the city of Durham, North Carolina, do hereby proclaim Thursday, October the 16th, 2025 as Imagine a Day Without Water Day in Durham and call on all citizens to consider the value of water in our community in the hope that there will never that they will that we will never have to live a day without water. Witness my hand in the corporate seal of the city of Durham, North Carolina, this 6th day of October, 2025. Leonardo Williams, mayor.

Thank you. [Applause] Thank you, mayor, members of council. Uh Thanks for the proclamation recognizing Imagine a Day Without Water. This is a national day of awareness that invites all of us to think about and consider something we often take for granted, which is when we turn on the tap, we expect clean, reliable water to be there.

It's also a reminder of the critical infrastructure that we rely on every day to make that possible. And the importance of investing in that um and caring for that that those systems. Um we also want to take this time to acknowledge our staff. Uh The water management staff that work 365 days a year around the clock to make sure that that water is flowing and

reliable and safe for us to use. Here in Durham, we are marking this event with uh something unique this year. We have coordinated with the cultural and public art team in general services to uh partner with three local artists to paint murals on sewer risers um along the South Ellerbe Creek Greenway Trail. Um these murals are designed to spark uh reflection on the value of water, uh the role it plays in sustaining our sustaining life, and um the infrastructure that our community relies on every day.

m. m. We will be uh sh- unveiling those murals. Um you'll have an opportunity to see them up close and in person, meet the artists who created them. And we hope that this event and the murals will inspire all of us to sort of pause and reflect on how

essential water is, not just to our health and to our homes, but to the life and vitality of Durham itself. org. And thank you very much, and we look forward to celebrating with all of you. [Applause] Good evening, everyone.

And I am here to read the proclamation for Customer Service Week. And I believe Stephen Williams is joining me. Yes.

So, proclamation for National Customer Service Week. As a longtime customer service rep for a number of companies, you know how important it is to have those customer service folks on on the line. Whereas in 1992, the United States Congress pro- proclaimed that the National Customer Service Week be recognized as an annual event and celebrated during the first week of October. And whereas National National Customer Service Week is set aside to recognize the importance of service excellence and to honor those who demonstrate outstanding customer service and consistently perform their duties with the highest level of professionalism. And whereas customer service in local government is critical for connecting people with services, building trust with residents, helping businesses representatives navigate complex processes, addressing unique challenges, and creating positive experiences with government agencies. And whereas excellent customer service requires an inclusive culture where diversity is valued, all customers are

welcome, and equitable access to services is provided. And whereas the city of Durham believes that mutual respect, integrity, empathy, and in- initiatives are necessary to provide consistently positive customer service and recognizes that customer service is the responsibility of everyone at all levels of the organization. And whereas the city of Durham desires to express its appreciation for the excellent service provided by employees of the city of Durham and recognizing Customer Service Week, we can provide an opportunity to generate an even stronger commitment to the customer service excellence. Now therefore I Leonardo Williams, mayor of the city of Durham, North Carolina, do hereby proclaim October 6th through the 10th, 2025 as National Customer Service Week in the city of Durham. The City Council commends staff and their constit- commitments to the providing quality assistance and support to all of those

who seek our services. Witness my hand in the corporate seal of the city of Durham, North Carolina, this the 6th day of October, 2025. [Applause] Good evening, Mayor Williams, Mayor Pro Tem, council members, and everyone joining us today. I am Stephen Williams, Customer Service Administrator for Durham One Call.

And joining me is Arun KC, who is a data analyst for Durham One Call. And let me just say we represent over 2,600 employees for the city of Durham. Thank you, Mayor Williams, for this meaningful proclamat- proclamation recognizing Customer Service Week. On behalf of all city employees, our dedicated frontline workers, our courageous first responders, and the many professionals working behind the scenes in our offices, I accept this honor with great humility. Each day the employees of the city of Durham show up with one purpose, to serve our community with care, integrity, and commitment.

This recognition belongs to every person who answers a call, fills a pothole, responds to an emergency, or supports our residents in countless unseen ways. Thank you for shining a light light on their service. Happy Customer Service Week to all. [Applause] Oh, great.

Okay, I'm going to welcome to the stand uh Laura Fogel and Patrice Carroll. Good to see y'all. All right, I am reading the proclamation for Digital Inclusion Week. So, whereas digital inclusion refers to activities that ensure individuals and communities have access to reliable and affordable broadband internet service, internet-enabled devices, digital literacy training, technical support, and application and online content for self-sufficiency, participation, and collaboration. And whereas the city of

Durham supports digital inclusion efforts that lead to digital equity, wherein all people who work, play, worship, and live here have the information technology capacity needed to pursue their health and wellness, educational, and economic goals. And whereas the Durham City Council has approved and adopted a formal digital equity plan developed by the Digital Durham for the city of Durham and Durham County. And whereas the Durham City Council has approved the interlocal agreement between the city of Durham and Durham County to support digital equity efforts, including ARPA funds. And whereas the city of Durham is partnering with Central Pines Council of Government to provide digital inclusion services through through the Digital Equity Champions Grant. And whereas the city of Durham is partnering with Digital Durham to develop customized digital literacy training for members of the Durham community using ARPA funds. And whereas the city of Durham is partnering with Kramden Institute to provide basic computer training and laptops for

members of the Durham community using ARPA funds. Durham has been recognized by the National Digital Inclusion Alliance with the highest honor as a visionary digital inclusion trailblazer. Now therefore I Leonardo Williams, mayor of the city of Durham, North Carolina, do hereby proclaim October 7th through 11th, 2025 as Digital Inclusion Week in the city of Durham and hereby all ur- urge all residents to take note of this obser- observance in recognition of the positive impact digital inclusion efforts have on our community. Witness my hand in the corporate seal of the city of Durham, North Carolina, this the 6th day of October, 2026.

2025. Not yet. [Applause] So, thank you, Mayor Williams, esteemed members of City Council, and everyone present today. My name is Patrice Carroll, and I'm honored to stand before you as the Digital Inclusion and community engagement manager for the city of Durham to accept this proclamation for digital inclusion week.

Together with our dedicated partner Digital Durham, we are truly grateful for the recognition and support of our efforts to promote digital equity in our community. The proclamation represents more than just a week of observance. It symbolizes our collective commitment to ensuring that every individual in Durham has access to the tools and resources necessary for success in our increasingly digital world. Digital inclusion is not just about technology.

It's about empowering people to achieve their health, educational, and economic goals, to collaborate, and to participate fully in society. It is about equipping individuals with the knowledge and skills to utilize these resources effectively. Throughout this week, we will highlight the initiatives and programs aimed at providing digital literacy training and access to internet-enabled devices. We encourage everyone to join us in fostering a community where no one is

left behind in our digital age. Let us continue to work together towards a future where digital equity is the norm and not the exception. Thank you again. Good evening.

Thank you, Mayor Williams, council members, and people joining us tonight. My name is Laura B. Fogel, and I'm the founder of Digital Durham, Durham's own digital equity collaborative. And we are one of only 37 local coalitions to be nationally recognized by the National Digital Inclusion Alliance.

We are grateful to Mayor Williams, City Council, and the City of Durham Community Partnerships and Engagement Unit for their continued leadership and partnership in digital inclusion. Neighboring municipalities are contacting us to understand how we have been so successful, and we always emphasize these partnerships. Digital Durham envisions a future where everyone in Durham has the digital

skills and tools needed to enhance their life. We work with our growing list of member organizations and many other partners in the community to connect Durham residents to reliable, affordable devices, affordable, high-speed internet, and the training needed to use those technology resources effectively. During Digital Inclusion Week, I want us all to take a moment to celebrate our progress since the pandemic. According to the latest census numbers, we have shrunk the percentage of households without an internet connection by 50%.

And there's more. We have shrunk the the percentage of households in Durham without a device by more than 50%. And during the last 5 years, we've also launched major projects to improve digital digital literacy funded by the American Rescue Plan Act and allocated

by the city, the Digital Equity Leaders Program led by North Carolina Central University, and a digital champion grant that my colleague Patrice was just talking about, funded by the North Carolina Office of Digital Opportunity. We are closing the digital divide in Durham. I'm so proud of what we have done so far, but there's a lot of work yet to be done. There are older adults who can't figure out how to access their lab results in MyChart, parents who don't have connectivity to check their students' grades, and young people trying to take online classes or apply for jobs using just a phone.

So, my fellow Durhamites, you also can help close the digital divide. It's just not me and Patrice. You can donate your used computing devices to a computer refurbisher like Kramden. You can help someone build digital literacy skills, and you can visit our Digital Durham website to learn more about the work that we're

doing together in the community, to donate to that work, join our and join our membership. ngo. Thank you, and happy Digital Inclusion Week. Thank you.

My thanks to his honor the mayor for allowing me to read this proclamation for Arts and Humanities Week. Good evening to my honorable colleagues, friends and neighbors in chamber with us tonight, and to our friends and neighbors on whatever platform you may be watching. Really important proclamation. I'd like to welcome Margaret DeMott from the Durham Arts Council to stand with me.

As our I'm going to get okay. Oh, hey. Where is Margaret at? Such a um really robust discussion going on in our national public square about what constitutes acceptable artistic expression and what is the corpus of humanities, the body of work that we study, and what's acceptable.

So, this is a really timely proclamation, Your Honor, and I thank you for the opportunity to read it. Proclamation. Whereas the arts and humanities help diverse communities across the United States explore and share their history and culture. And whereas the arts and humanities embody much of the accumulated wisdom, intellect, and imagination of humankind. And whereas the arts and humanities enhance and enrich the lives of everyone. And whereas the arts and humanities play a unique role in the lives of our

families, our communities, and our country. And whereas despite significant losses due to the pandemic and loss of federal funding, the creative industries remain among the most vital sectors of the American economy, providing new opportunities within their own industry and across sectors. 6 million jobs. Now, therefore, I, Leonardo Williams, Mayor of the City of Durham, North Carolina, do hereby proclaim October 2025 as Arts and Humanities Month in the City of Durham, and hereby urge community members to celebrate and promote the arts and culture in our nation, and to specifically encourage greater participation by said community members in taking action for the arts

and humanities. Witness my hand and the corporate seal of the City of Durham, North Carolina, this today this the 6th day of October 2025. Leonardo Williams, Mayor. Thank you so much.

[Applause] Good evening. Thank you, Mayor Pro Tem. Good evening, Mayor Williams and members of the Durham City Council. Good evening, friends and family.

I'm Katie Wyatt. I'm the new executive director of the Durham Arts Council, and I want to take a minute to also thank Margaret DeMott, who is an arts and humanities treasure here in Durham. If you haven't met her, she's our director of artist services and has been just incredible as I've joined the organization. On behalf of the Durham Arts Council, I want to extend our heartfelt thanks for your proclamation recognizing October as National Arts and Humanities Month. Words matter, and this is a powerful affirmation of the role arts and culture play in

shaping Durham's identity, economy, and community well-being. Indeed, in holding the accumulated wisdom, intellect, and imagination of humankind. Durham is a community of creators, from our tech hubs, scrap exchanges, community-supported art boxes, and boxcar art, street performers, world-class artists in world-class venues, glass blowers, and festival throwers. From our murals that tell our history to our theaters, once divided, which now bring people together to learn and embrace being alive through art.

The arts are woven into the fabric of our daily lives. Thanks to your continued support, Durham's creators are growing and enriching our our community. In addition to feeding our souls, the impact of the arts and humanities also powerfully affects our economy. The most recent National Arts and Economic

6 million jobs, and generating 29 billion in tax revenue for local, state, and federal governments. For all of us here in Durham, that looks like 233 million annually, supporting 3,246 jobs, and contributing 27 million to to revenues. These are not just numbers. They represent livelihoods, artists, thinkers, and the vibrancy of our community. We are proud to be a patch in the arts and humanities quilt of Durham. Last year, the Durham Arts Council provided arts experiences to over 627,000 people and awarded more than 880,000 in grants to 136 artists and cultural organizations.

These investments ripple outward, boosting tourism, strengthening education, and fostering a sense of pride and belonging. So, today, as we celebrate National Arts and Humanities Month, we also celebrate Durham's commitment to a thriving, inclusive, and creative future. Thank you for recognizing the power of the arts and humanities not just to entertain, but to educate, to heal, to connect, and to drive prosperity. To embody the accumulated wisdom, intellect, and imagination of humankind.

We're proud to partner with you in this work, and we look forward to continuing to build a thriving, creative Durham where the arts are accessible to all. Thank you very much. [Applause]

Katie, it's great to have you back in the city of Durham. We go back to when she was working with Kids Notes when I first started my teaching career in 2006. Thank you all for promoting the arts. All right, we have one more proclamation.

And that was unusually a lot tonight. Good evening, everyone. I'll be presenting the proclamation for Hispanic Heritage Month. Whereas National Hispanic Hispanic Heritage Month is celebrated annually from September 15th through October 15th to celebrate the histories, cultures, and contributions of Americans with ancestry from Spain, Mexico, the Caribbean, and Central and South

America. And whereas the 2025 National Hispanic Heritage Month theme is collective heritage, honoring the past, inspiring the future. The theme emphasize the importance of celebrating the cultural traditions that shape Hispanic identity while also looking towards the future and the contributions of future generations. And whereas the city of Durham embraces all our neighbors of Hispanic, Latino, and Latinx heritage regardless of documentation status and recognizes their profound and positive influence in the city of Durham.

And whereas the city of Durham recognizes the challenges the Hispanic, Latino, and Latinx community continues to face in our city and the resilience in creating solutions for future generations. And whereas the city of Durham continues to recognize the efforts led by community leader community leaders, organizations, and allies to support the Hispanic, Latino, and Latinx communities. And whereas the city of Durham recognizes and celebrates the impact and efforts led by community organizations and individuals to support the Hispanic community like Guadalupe Cuellar, a Latino senior from El

Salvador. She is an enthusiastic and active member of the Durham Center for Senior Life, always excited to share the Latino culture and to share Latino culture and food. Guadalupe has also volunteered at Church World Services assisting in the ESL program. She will soon be trained to teach literacy for Spanish-speaking students at the main library in Durham.

Two, Roselia Flores, Durham entrepreneur owner of La Superior Market. Three, Cindy Salazar, community leader and program manager for Immersion Immersion for Spanish language acquisition with Roots in Guatemala and Honduras and an advocate for bilingual education. One, Belarde Vasquez Vasquez, student at North Carolina Central University. Five, Angie Melchor Roque, Adia Palmari, a bilingual Peruvian-American 13-year-old, a lover of soccer, math, travel, and trying new foods. Adia has long had a deep interest in the history and geography of his hometown of Durham.

Whereas the city of Durham celebrates and encourages the growing number of Hispanic, Latino, and Latinx resident leaders who are adding their voices to our city and county political landscapes, commissions, community organizations, Durham Public Schools, and nonprofits. The city is committed to improving existing opportunities and opening doors for Hispanic and Latino and Latinx residents of all backgrounds to participate in our city's participatory democracy. I must. Okay. Now, therefore, I, Leonardo William Williams, mayor of the city of Durham, North Carolina, do hereby proclaim September 15th through October 15th, 2025 National Hispanic Heritage Month in the city of Durham and hereby urge all residents to honor the distinct traditions of the Hispanic, Latino, and Latinx community unity and their contributions to our city, state, and nation by participating in relevant ceremonies, activities, and programs. Witness my hand and the corporate seal of the city of Durham, North Carolina, this 6th day of October 2025.

[Applause] Good evening, mayor, mayor pro tem, members of the city council, and friends. My name is Marianela McColl and I am the vice chair of the mayor's Hispanic Latino committee. It is truly an honor to stand here tonight as the city of Durham officially proclaims Hispanic Heritage Month, a time to recognize and celebrate the incredible contributions of our nearly 50,000 Hispanic and Latino residents who help make this city vibrant, hardworking, and full of life. This proclamation may be symbolic, but it carries deep deep meaning because symbols matter. They speak to recognition, to belonging, and to respect. For too long, too many in our community

have felt unseen or unheard. But tonight, Durham says loud and clear, we see you, we value you. You are part of the city's heart and future. Across Durham, the Latino community has helped build our neighborhoods, energize our local economy, and enrich our culture.

You can taste it in our food, hear it in our music, and feel it in the warmth of our families and our community gatherings. We are entrepreneurs, teachers, students, construction workers, nurses, artists, and dreamers, each contributing to what makes Durham strong and beautiful. And yet, we know this celebration comes at a time when many Latino families across our city and our country are facing fear, discrimination,

or uncertainty. This is precisely why these moments matter. This proclamation is more than words on paper. It is a promise, a promise that Durham stands for inclusion, a promise that this city recognizes that diversity is our strength, a promise that every child growing up here, no matter where their family comes from or what language they speak at home, deserves to feel safe, proud, and empowered.

So, tonight, as we celebrate Hispanic Heritage Month, let's honor our ancestors and their resilience. Let's celebrate our stories, stories of migration, of courage, of hard work and work and love. And let us keep building a city where everyone belongs and everyone thrives. To our Latino community,

thank you so much for all your contributions, our spirit, and our and your perseverance. You make Durham shine brighter. Happy Hispanic Heritage Month. Thank you.

[Applause] All right. Thank you. All right. Well, I'll move on to announcements and I'll start to my left.

Council member Cook. Thank you. And thank you everyone for being here. Good evening.

It's always great to see a full chamber. Just a few quick announcements just to be mindful of everyone's time. I just want

to say a quick thank you. I took a tour of the Cristo Rey school over at American Tobacco Campus and I had a one of the students gave me a tour, Anna. So, I just want to shout her out. She is an incredible senior.

She's doing her college applications, walked me through that process a bit. And the really cool part about Cristo Rey is that they get to get some work experience under their belts. So, they do 4 days of classes and then 1 day every week of working with local businesses and nonprofits and foundations that have partnered with the school. It was really really cool to learn and just want to encourage my colleagues if you all haven't been over there to go see it.

Really really cool campus right in the heart of downtown. I also want to wish Shana Tova happy New Year to all those who celebrating with me this past couple of weeks. It's been a long time since our last meeting. So, it has been both Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur and so I hope everyone had a meaningful

fast. Great. We always talk about how the Jews love to set aside a day for um communal crying which is how I view Yom Kippur and unfortunately there's a lot of grieving to be done. And so it was really nice to share that grief with community and and think about sort of how we can spread that grief around and also find joy and meaning in that moment too.

Speaking of grief, I do want to say that the Durham community lost an incredible organizer and activist Ndwarin Langley this week. And so I want to send out my condolences to folks who have worked with him and those who knew him and family and friends. We will miss his voice calling and calling for accountability to the city council for how we spend our funds and and how we're investing in the kids of Durham. So, I was sorry to hear that that that's going to be a really big loss for Durham. And then finally just want to recognize

that tomorrow is election day. We are down from our 2023 early voting statistics. So, please do go out and vote. We've had right around 5% or just less than of registered voters in Durham who have voted in this election.

You all are all here so I don't have to sell you on the importance of local government. But this is the government that's most closely affecting your life. And so I know that it's not as exciting to vote in a not national election time but would love for folks to come out and have their voices heard. We have a primary and then we will have a general election about 9 days later.

And then finally tomorrow is also National Night Out. A little bit of a weird competition there for time but looking forward to celebrating with several communities in the Durham area. So, those are my announcements. Thank you.

Thank you, Council Member Baker. Good evening everyone. Thank you all for being here. It's wonderful to to be in

the same room as you. Thank you to Council Member Cook for your wonderful announcements. Some of them were mine so takes a little bit off my plate. I also want to second your words about a towering figure.

One that I know other council members have also spoken about and published about Ndwarin Langley who who contributed so much to our community, called for policy interventions, really embodied I think the the spirit of love is the motive and justice is the instrument in making our community a better place and holding holding power to account. And so it's a tremendous loss and also just an incredibly kind human being and someone who really just wanted to have so many conversations with community members and get to know people very well. Um the Unified Development Ordinance is one of the most powerful documents in our city. It is owned by us and by the by the people of Durham and regulates billions

of dollars worth of real estate and shapes the world that we live in. We are in the process of rewriting the Unified Development Ordinance maybe 2/3 to 3/4 of the way done. It's being completed in a series of modules. Four modules.

The third module is being completed now. m. That's going to be a technical code presentation by the consultants. com and look look for the Zoom link for that meeting.

And there will be additional meetings moving forward but I wanted to make that known to you all October 21st so you can put that in your calendar. That's it for me. Thank you. Thank you, Council Member Cabrera.

Thank you. Good evening everyone. Good to be with you. We had a fifth Monday which I always call snow days basically because it gives us a a little bit longer of a break as a council.

It's been a busy 2 weeks. I've seen many of my colleagues out and about at various community events. So, I just want to shout out that Pride, Miss Elaine's block party, the Movable Bike Durham event were all incredible. It's been two wonderful weekends in Durham seeing so many folks out and about.

Last week was also week without driving. I know many of us were participating and getting out and about on our bikes and walking places. So, I just want to shout out all those organizers, city staff who were involved. Police, transportation, so many folks who get involved, DPR to make that possible.

I think Ghostbusters was being played the original, the real one. Um on Saturday night at Central Park. So, it's just you know, for me when so many dark things are happening currently, it's been a really nice time to be out in community and seeing folks and

celebrating everything that makes Durham a very very special place. So, um also it's already been raised but tomorrow is municipal primary. Turnout is usually pretty low for this election so really encourage folks to get out and and vote. Um and I think that's it for me.

Thank you. Awesome. Thank you, Council Member Freeman. Thank you.

A number of of items on my list have been touched on but I will start with just a great big thank you. I think Don Greenly has left but he and his team were very helpful in putting together a great tour, a great overview for the water and sewer of the city of Durham for the Leadership North Carolina group. And I just wanted to say thank you again. Um just acknowledging that it's it's a lot to take on, you know, adding on doing a 2 to 3 hour tour for folks coming in from out of town. Just wanted to appreciate all of the

staff over there that put that together and open up their workspace. And then I also wanted to take a moment and thank the students over at Cornwallis that invited me over to present a coloring book of city council at which I left in the car. I wish I could show you the wonderful pictures they put together for the children to be able to color. Um it's really pretty cool.

They're trying to learn about city government at such a young age. And then I also wanted to say just take a moment and say as the ACLU turns 60 this year, they shared a talk on displacement by design with Dr. Henry McCoy of Hayti Reborn and Donna Carrington of Committee Empowerment Fund and a couple other folks there. But over at the PSI Theater and the Arts and the Arts Council and they shared these lovely cards in multiple languages. I can't see them but in multiple languages that that actually

share your rights um as residents in our community. And I want to make sure I just like hold them up and say like please find them if you don't um just to share with folks in our in our community knowing that we're facing some terribly trying times. And then I wanted to also say on a very lighter note, I want to thank the Hesters for their wonderful um you know, cultural arts in a different way making sure that the bands get played in our community as much as possible. Their Phoenix Fest on Fayetteville Street this weekend and making sure that folks came together in a very, you know, family friendly activity. And then um definitely excited about the inaugural Miss Elaine's block party which is also a cultural celebration downtown on Main Street of course. And really just express my sincere concern about how our um

county government is being forced um to withdraw from our communities actual cultural affairs and events. And just just express some concern there. And I did want to just send a in addition to Ndwarin Langley, we also lost a great educator and administrator and and Elton O'Neal, former mayor Elaine O'Neal's brother, older brother, her big brother. And just make sure you just wrap your arms around her and her family as they are experiencing great loss.

He's a giant. E. Smith, you know, cheering the kids on annually for back to school events. And you know, we just I just want to put the plug out there that you know, we got to make sure that we are staying engaged with these schools and the students in schools at the schools

and in the neighborhoods and in the community. So, um just in wrapping up, just want to make sure I didn't forget any up and one more. This is what I made sure to write down. A big thank you to Pastor Love for the participatory community play um on gun violence called The Funeral Is Cancelled.

Um it's it's really uh it was really a great opportunity to see what our community can do and um looking forward to it happening again. And then uh definitely want to make sure that I lift up domestic violence awareness, ADHD awareness, breast cancer awareness. And um appreciate the mayor for designating October for Arts and Humanities Month. Thank you.

Thank you, Council Member Barbee. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Good evening, colleagues, Deputy City Manager Wimberley.

Good to see you with us tonight. Thanks for being here. Uh good evening uh residents and folks online.

It's good to be with you all. Um it it has been a There's a lot been a lot going on as Council Member Cabrera said with that fifth Monday. It seems like it's been a long time since our last council meeting. Um there's a lot going on.

It was a great weekend this last weekend in Durham with amazing weather. My colleagues have mentioned a lot of things going on. I'll amplify a couple of those. Um but I will also notice note that it is also dark times that we're living in and I want to um you know, uh reach out to our colleagues in Chicago and Portland, friends, colleagues, leaders there who are dealing in Chicago with the deployment of National Guard troops um and in Portland trying all legal measures to try to prevent that.

So, um we want to let our colleagues know they have our full support as they use all means necessary, legal and other, to to uh to resist this overreach by the federal government using police power in our cities. It's crazy. Um there's also been a lot going on with bike ped stuff. So, I do do want to um amplify my colleagues' comments about week without driving, a great week. I got wet early in the week, got rained on, got sweaty later in the week as the weather got warm, but it's all okay as I'm biking around. Um I want to thank everyone that

participated in that. Also hope everyone saw the clip on TV, the CBS 17 story about the bike bus to Southwest Elementary. It's a great story. Just Google CBS 17 bike bus.

Amazing story about parents and kids who are now biking along American Tobacco Trail to get to Southwest Elementary. It's a great story. Um one day I wasn't mentioned there was also a Duke Gregson Corridor Study Open House meeting I think a couple weeks ago to get feedback on that. That's one of the corridors we have in Durham that's a that's our fast one-way pairs that is really unsafe for cars, pedestrians, bikers, and all.

And so, we are working hard on Duke and Gregson as well as Roxboro and Mangum to convert those one-way pairs into a much safer traffic calmed artery. So, thanks for all the folks who came out to that. Um yeah, the Movable Durham Festi- Movable City Festival yesterday was amazing. Thanks to Bike Durham for organizing that and for everyone that came out.

Um it was a great event and a beautiful day. I do want to shout out Missy Lane's Block Party as as a number of my colleagues have. Um what a great evening, what a great vibe for Durham, and what an

absolutely first-class lineup, world-class lineup of jazz artists who were here in the Bull City. And I was good to see many of my colleagues there, also Deputy City Manager Wimberley, a lot of fun. Uh but that was an amazing event. Um shout out to Cecily Mitchell, Dr.

Cecily Mitchell, who helped to organize that. Again, first-class festival that I hope will come to Durham for many more years to come. And there were people from certainly from Charlotte and Raleigh who were here for the event. I'm sure folks maybe came even from further and will do continue to do that as we put on amazing festivals like Missy Lane's Block Party.

Um I also want to shout out Kirk Archer, who's the special events manager at DPR. Kirk was there late on on Saturday at Missy Lane's Block Party. He was there early on Sunday for the Movable um Movable Durham Festival. So, great work by Kirk who does a lot of work to to manage special events for the city through DPR.

Um Pride Parade was great. It was great to be there. Thanks to all the folks who came out for Pride. Seems like that was so long ago. Um the last thing I do want to say is um it was my pleasure to serve on the Workforce Board with DeWarren Langley. We literally met two weeks ago

and he was there at the meeting with us. So, the news was shocking to hear of his passing. He was a passionate advocate, dedicated advocate, a voice for for youth and for workforce training in our city. Um he will um be hard to replace in Durham.

So, our hearts go out to his family. Um may his memory be a blessing to all of us. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

Thank you, Mayor Pro Tem. Thank you, Mr. Mayor, and thanks to my colleagues for excellent um remembrances and excellent um announcements. I want to send our love and light uh to the family of DeWarren Langley uh tonight.

Our whole city pauses and our heart beats with that family. Um I grew up with a speech impediment in a neighborhood uh that the New York Times called the crack capital of America when I was growing up. Uh so, the likelihood of me being in a position like this would have been a joke uh back then. But there were people in my village and community. It wasn't DeWarren, but it was people who were possessed of the same spirit uh that made it possible uh

for this proposition to become what it is today, highly unlikely. And I I I thank God for it. So, when I met DeWarren, he triggered a lot of memories and a lot of uh places uh in me that I don't visit often emotionally or intellectually, but but he reminded me of what is possible uh when you never shut up about what our people need uh and when you walk the walk uh every day. So, I I just want to celebrate his light and and let the city know that there are folk that he infected before he left and that his work uh will continue.

Um and as I yield, there was a a movie called Jason's Lyric and it had this really cool song as part of their soundtrack called You Will Know uh by Black Men United. It was a bunch of black artists, black male artists who sang this wonderful anthem. Um and I'll just honor him by saying this. There's a line from the song that says, "Your dreams ain't easy, but stick to your plan to grow from boys to men.

You got to act like a man. When it gets hard, y'all, just grab what you know. Stand up tall. Don't you fall.

" God bless him. God bless his memory. God bless his family. Thank you, Mr.

Mayor. Thank you, Mayor Pro Tem. And I will um join the chorus of honoring DeWarren um and you know, some people may think, you know, people die every day and you know, not everybody gets shouted out. Um but I will tell you that not everybody holds our feet to the fire uh like he did on a daily.

He may have said the same thing, but he meant something different every time. It was a different angle, a different you know, approach to try and get us to that point. And I will share that DeWarren and I actually were really good friends. He would talk to me behind the scenes and the same thing he would say publicly is the same thing he would say behind the scenes. And I remember when I was on council and

I remember meeting him in my office. I was like, "Dude, you always coming to council. You say the same dang on thing. " And that's how he earned my respect.

So, I I appreciate um the words that he shared every time he would call into city every single meeting, literally. And um and those words will continue to ring until we actually carry out um those that very mission that he and I definitely agree on. Uh it's been a a lot going on. I'm going to briefly speak uh and acknowledge as well.

Um but I I would like to say I I have asked Discover Durham to uh and I'll ask also from our off- office of Economic and Workforce Development. I would like to know the economic impact from this past weekend. Uh speaking with retail businesses, restaurants, uh small businesses throughout the city, there were record numbers made this weekend

um because there was so many people downtown Durham. You know, they um I'm going to probably screw this up, but uh when American Tobacco's campus, we had Luftgekühlt. That actually came out all right. Luftgekühlt.

Uh if you're not familiar with it, it's okay because this is the first time they've ever brought this to the East Coast. But it's a vintage Porsche car show. And we I don't know how they did it, but they shut the entire campus down and had over 500 luxury, vintage, exotic, super car but they were all Porsche brands on campus. And there were over 7,000 people who came to Durham this weekend.

Every hotel was sold out. Every restaurant was full. And clothes were being bought off the shelves. That was on top of the farmers' market being extremely populated.

And that was on top of the Missy Lane's Block Party, the Movable City shutting down the streets to two wheels and two feet. Um just, you know, uh John DeLaney at DPAC, uh the movie at Central Park, Ghostbusters. The city was on fire this weekend. And it felt so good.

And you know, and it just it just it was the best of Durham this weekend. Um and I'm glad that we are, you know, mid-week is coming up because this is Durham and this is, you know, the history of Black Wall Street as well. And you There's this growing sensation of anti-business and and you know, anti-capitalism. You know, I I think that Durham got it right back in the day and I think that we're still trying to get it right as well.

Uh so, I want to celebrate people who go out and start businesses and uh and and try to make a living for themselves. Uh my wife and I do it. Um some people think that it's a demonized

behavior. Um I I don't entertain that. I I love the fact that we in this climate politically are willing to state a proclamation on our values of minority and business uh women business own women own businesses. Um and hoping for their prosperity and not their demise.

So, uh Durham, I hope what Durham will continue to stand up and support that. C. C. and New York City.

Uh was invited because residents, including residents in Durham with HIV AIDS, uh were receiving support on the Medicare and Medicaid. Their resources were stopped because the president of the United States decided to stop funding for funding that was already allocated for these residents across the country. I wrote a letter to the president. I did not get a response.

I wrote it again and I joined with mayors. I had mayors across the country to join me. And this is me just trying to be a pain uh and stand up for our residents. I did not know it was going to get traction.

Um so, it was published in a few magazines that letter and Bill and Hillary Clinton invited the mayor of Durham to to New York to join them in a small intimate working group on project 2029 uh as we stand up for this country and its democracy. And I am working with them directly as well as the uh CEO of GoFundMe and the CEO of Pew Charitable Trust and other philanthropic groups and about five other mayors. Um it's good work. Uh we spent this past week at uh New York with the global the Clinton Global Initiative.

And I'm really honored to represent the city in that work. C. to the Congressional Black Caucus uh uh annual leadership conference. Uh and just got a feel of what's happening in Congress and how we could you know, do our part at the local

level. Including voting tomorrow. Um as you've heard, tomorrow is municipal elections. And uh we still show out a bit more, a lot more for national campaigns and not the campaigns uh or elections that affect us most.

So, I hope that ultimately will we'll get there. Uh but please encourage your neighbors, families, and friends to go vote, including yourselves. Um again, the Missing Lanes Missing Lanes Block Party it was uh I'm just going to say it, colleagues, I hope we can support that next year. It it I I think this is the new Dreamville.

I really do. I think it's the new Dreamville. Raleigh is not doing Dreamville anymore. This is an opportunity for us to take the crown.

And the way uh she had it set up and organized, um it was just nothing short of amazing. And also, I met my favorite artist, Tank and the Bangas. So, um they were here.

Um I want to thank uh Well, also, I want to uh thank the uh Department of Justice um um the Justice Center, Durham Justice Center for inviting me out with our police chief and deputy sheriff and the D A to read the names of our domestic violence victims across North Carolina uh as we uh celebrate um domestic violence month. And I also want to thank the Hispanic Chamber as we're celebrating Hispanic Heritage Month for inviting me out to celebrate uh one of the local authors um and uh just the work that they are doing and um it's it's they're busy. They're always doing something even outside of a Hispanic Heritage Month. Just grateful for their their work and invite. And lastly, uh would like to uh thank the Trinity School. Um I visit a school once a week and the Trinity School invited me out to their Democracy and Discourse Club uh today where these kids go deep and they are

paying attention. And I I implore all of us to just be mindful that we are we are the example. You know, and there are young people watching and that not only goes for council members, it goes for community members, too. Uh people are watching.

And how you display yourself how you display yourself is how people will remember you. And I hope that you I hope that we're never so selfish that we only think of our own our own intentions, but more so our perceptions. Um Council Member Freeman. Thank you.

Just one additional item. I just wanted to make sure that I had um expressed that I that I'll need an excused absence for Thursday. I don't know if we voted on it or not. I got it.

But I I do want to make sure that I request an excused absence for Thursday. All right. So, we can go ahead and do that real quick. I'll entertain a motion that we deny Council Member Freeman from being able to I will make a motion to grant her an excused absence.

All right. It's been moved and properly seconded that uh we excuse Council Member Freeman for Thursday's work session. I'll uh oh, yeah. Madam Clerk, can you please open the vote?

Yes. All right. Thank you. Um The motion is unanimous.

All right. Thank you. It's unanimous. All right.

Thank you so much. Well, those are my announcements. Oh, that Porsche car show I was talking about, it's the first time it's on the East Coast. And um hopefully we we can get it back.

I just I did not vote. My screen never changed, but if I could mark mine as a yay, I'm sure it was abstaining, but I I think it probably was abstaining cuz you didn't vote, right? Um yes, so I just want to be recorded as

a yay, but also mine never I'm not able to vote. Did your vote machine not work? My screen never changed, so. Yeah, I it was a little delayed.

I know mine mine was uh was doing the same, but it's recorded as yay. All right. All right. Madam um Deputy City Manager, Bertha Winbush, it's on you.

Good evening, Mayor Williams, Mayor Pro Tem Middleton, members of Council. Priority items, agenda item number three, request to carry over funding from fiscal year 2024-2025 to fiscal year 2025-2026 to amend the fiscal year 2025-2026 budget, capital improvement plan CIP, and internal service fund spending plans. A revised FY25-26 budget

ordinance requested during the September 18th, 2025 work session has been added. The following items were disposed of during the September 18th, 2025 City Council work session. Agenda item number six, amendment number four to South Ellerbe wetland and stream restoration design services contract CT14277. A presentation was made during the September 18th, 2025 work session.

com for digital plan submittal and review. The item was approved during the September 18th, 2025 work session. Agenda item number 20, appeal of ordinance revision to chapter 10, article 6, housing code section 10-241. The item was referred back to City Council.

Those are all of my priority items. Thank you. Madam Attorney. Do you need this?

No, I don't. Good evening, Mr. Mayor,

Mr. Mayor Pro Tem. Members of the Council, it's good to be with you. The City Attorney's office has no priority items tonight.

Thank you, Madam Attor- uh Madam uh Clerk. Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Mr. Mayor Pro Tem, and City Council members.

The City Clerk's office has no priority items tonight. Thank you. At this time, I will read the consent agenda. Number one, approval of City Council minutes.

Number two, 2025 fiscal year year-end inventory performance audit, August 2025. Number three, request to carry over funding from fiscal year 2024-2025 to fiscal year 2025-2026 to amend the fiscal year 2025-2026 budget, capital improvement plan CIP, and internal service fund spending plans. Mr. Mayor, would you pull item three, please? Number four, grant project ordinance

accepting through Central Pines Regional Council and North Carolina Department of Information Technology Digital Champions Grant for technology acquisition for digital literacy training. Number five, contract amendment number four for SD2021-06 municipal separate storm sewer systems system inspections. Number six, amendment number four to South Ellerbe South Ellerbe wetland and stream restoration design services contract. Number seven, resolution to authorize the execution of opioid settlements with secondary opioid manufacturers Purdue Pharma LP and the Sackler family and approving the third supplemental agreement for additional funds from opioid litigation. Number eight, resolution authorizing the virtual city auction. Number 10, second amendment to city of Durham to the city of Durham and the Carolina Theatre of Durham Incorporated building

and services agreement. Number 11, resolution to recognize Merrick Moore as a Durham Heritage Community. Number 12, revisions to historic preservation commissions interlocal cooperation agreement. Number 14, contract for information technology research and advisory services.

Number Number 15, contract with Open Sesame Incorporated to enhance the city's learning content. Number 16, letter of request for North Carolina Department of Transportation to conduct a feasibility study for passenger rail station in Research Triangle Park. Number 19, report on wildlife feeding. Not pulling it, but this is not what we're not discussing this tonight. This is the report that we received and then we're re- discuss again on at the next work session and then it'll come on the general um It's been a lot of talk on that one.

Number Oh, you know what? I should probably look at my sign-ups. Okay, wait. Let me go back first.

Okay, 17 18. Okay, this is number 19. Gosh, it's so out of order. Okay.

All right, number number 19 has been pulled. All right. Number 21, interlocal agreement. It just goes up to 19 and then the public hearings, right?

Okay. Number 21, interlocal agreement with Durham City Durham County for the provision of housing assistance and related supportive services fiscal year 2025-2026. On GBA, general business agenda, number nine, rewrite of resolution designating city manager contract approval thresholds, formerly number 9673.

Number 17, local historic landmark designation, The Chicken Hut, which has been pulled. Num- And these are public hearings, I'm sorry. Uh number 18, consolidated annexation Harland and Park subdivision. Yeah.

All right. And that is our three and 19. All right. As Excuse me, outside of our public hearings, items number three and number 19.

Yep. All right, I'll entertain a motion to accept the consent agenda with the items excepting of three and 19. So moved. Second.

It's been moved and properly seconded. Madam Clerk, please open the vote. Uh that and thank you, it's unanimous. All right, item number three.

Mayor Pro Tem. Thank you, uh Your Honor. Thank you, colleagues. Uh colleagues, I

as you know, I serve as a liaison for the Durham Museum of History. At our last work session, um I had telegraphed an intent to, as part of our carryover, to request some additional funding for our museum in conjunction with our our partners at the um county. I was under the impression that I had done that, but but in subsequent days, I realized that I had not officially. And I understand we we have two items we're talk discuss.

Additional funds for our immigrant defense fund and um our supportive justice matters and the museum. Uh so I'm asking that item number three uh be amended. The total um ask of the museum is $93,145. $46,900 for for facility due diligence, $46,245 for ongoing operations, education coordination, and cola to be split evenly between the city of Durham and the county of Durham. So I'm asking for a budget adjustment to this year's fiscal

fiscal to this budget fiscal year's budget in the amount of $47,000 for the city of Durham for the Durham Museum of History in conjunction with our partners at the county who will match us in kind. All right. Um Madam budget director, do you have any commentary? Uh Christina Werdon, budget and management services director.

I do not have any comments. Just we the budget and management services staff are are ready to make the amendment if that's the wish of council. Sounds good. I'll yield to the attorney for language crafting if if any.

I can come up with some. I would prefer to yield to staff for the appropriate language they need. Uh yeah, I think that we have we provided a revised budget amendment which includes the 200,000 for Justice Matters. So I think we would just need to

include language to revise and and and add an additional 47,000 to the general fund for the budget ordinance tonight. Do we have that? Is it Let me see what I'll just offer a motion with the appropriate adjustment. Adjusted language as uttered here in the meeting.

The the manager has made it clear to me that there's two ordinances, one with the language of the 200,000 and one without. I want to amend the one with the 200,000 language to reflect what's been uttered here. I'm I'm not finding it. Which one is it?

I don't see numbers. I So it's in the memo, right? So she has an extra one here. Okay,

yeah. All right, got you. But that's not in the actual language. I need the language, right?

Okay. So why don't you do this? Why don't you Cuz I have to read these, right? It's fine. All right, so I'll I'll entertain a motion to adopt an ordinance amending the fiscal fiscal year 2025-2026

City of Durham budget ordinance, the same being ordinance number 16514 to appropriate fund balance for the carryover request. Appropriate fund balance to recognize encumbrances brought forward from the fiscal year 2024-2025 and make other needed ordinance amendments. So moved. I'm sorry.

So moved, yeah. Second. All right, it's been moved and properly seconded. Madam Clerk, please open the vote.

Point of We have a point of clarification to that language. I would like to add $47,000 for the Museum of Durham History. Um I'm I'm I'm moving it. Just a point of clarification.

What we're saying is cuz I'm I just want to make sure I'm seeing the the changed language. I don't see that on the memo. Is it on the memo? Or did you email it? We We did send a

follow-up with the revised ordinance, but it did not include the current amount for the Museum of Durham History. So I'm I'm not reading number figures. I'm reading the action. But the amendment that needs to be made is in addition to the 200,000 that we have in the memo is an additional $47,000 for >> we do we do several We do several adjustments to the ordinance to do the amendment.

>> I'm reading the action, but the numbers will be amended in the actual memo. Staff has the direction and we'll make the >> which is captured. All right. Sounds good.

Madam Clerk, please open the vote. Colleagues, please vote. Unless there's a point of order. All right.

Did we get a Did we get a second yet? I'll second that. I don't know if we got a second or yet. I thought we had a second, I'm sorry.

I But I think that was I think I think Mayor Pro Tem made the motion, so I'm seconding that. All right. I'm I'm I'm fine with appro- I just want to make sure I we're tracking

where the motion is. I just want to make sure I'm seeing it. Oh, so got you. I was confused about the same thing.

So, what's happening is the memo is actually reflective of the of the action that we're taking right now. Which is this we're adopting this ordinance. This ordinance refers to Is that Am I not right? Sorry.

Um Mayor, no, it's just that that the amount has been mentioned by the Mayor Pro Tem. The memo does not include that. So, if we My at least understanding is that the motion we would pass would maybe not include the 46,000 for the Museum of Durham. And I think everyone's in agreement that we want to fund it.

We just have to make sure that the language appropriately captures it. And I think many of us are questioning whether the motion that has been documented is reflective of the >> out. It's It may It may not reflect it because the memo is doesn't have it. There's no documentation other than um what Mayor Pro Tem has suggested. And I think we all want to support that, but

we just have to have the right mechanism. >> Correct. So, that's why I was saying it's been captured. And to your understanding, Madam uh budget director, it is you're capturing it to provide the memo to include that 47, correct?

Uh the ordinance will include >> the ordinance. >> Yes. I will I will present >> So, colleagues, are you all saying that you would feel comfortable if you saw that in the language before we pass it? I I think we can add No?

Okay. Mayor Pro Tem, sorry. Yeah, if if I might respond, it it's within the council's purview at any given time if we have quorum to pass whatever we want regardless of whether it's in the memo or not. Um it's binding, it's legal, it's we're just the language has been stated.

We're just adding $47,000 to that language, which is well within our purview. I mean, anytime we're in a called meeting, we can make a motion and pass it whether it's And we've done that many, many times before since I've been on council. >> So, we're we're currently on the record and the budget director is capturing that language. So, I just want to be clear that we've not done that for a

budget to item ever. And so, I just want to make sure that we're documenting cuz I want to make sure that the budgeting staff is not just shaking their head, that they're actually going to show us where those dollars are coming from with that motion, which is usually why the motion is set in place when we do budget um when we set up our budget in the in the um spring. And so, those budget guidelines drive us into the direction of how the dollars will be spent. I don't want to be in the same position as Rocky Mount, just approving dollars just because someone said it at the dais in the in you know, the majority agree.

I want to make sure that we're doing it as Correct. Now, got you. And these And these are carryovers um carryover funds. So, Carryforwards.

Carried forward. Um Yep. So, it will come from fund balance. >> But carryforward is usually amounts that we didn't like we we were intending to spend >> And we didn't.

This is a new item that's being added. Correct. >> Which doesn't necessarily fit into

carryforwards. As I'm just making sure that it's clear. Um I know we have newer members of council that it's not normal to just add dollars into a carryforward in the same way that we're talking about this evening. Okay.

Um let me go to Council member Ruffin and then Middleton. Yes, as I understand and Miss Ruffin, correct me if I'm wrong. At the work session, we I think we talked about this. So, these items have all gone back into fund balance.

They're coming back out now in this ordinance. And we're just we're saying this this 47,000 would come from the fund balance, correct? Correct. I think carryover items are always the revenue source is always fund balance and they are always one time.

So, those two stipulations if something is a carryover, they would have to be one time funding and it would be through fund balance. And just for the sake of having that kind of continuity, can you say what the fund balance will be after the 47,000? Um

And I can Uh so, in your memo, I I can I don't have the exact number of fund balance. 5% of adjusted budget. So, it would be um $47,000 less than that, which is um And I apologize, I don't have the the full number in front of me, but um that's about $11 million more than That's fine. That's fine.

Um did you have any additional comments? >> Yeah, I I would just This isn't first mention of this item. As I said, it's already on record at the uh previous work session. And I would be very historical.

I I would remind us that the first time we funded eviction diversion, I made a comment that we didn't fund eviction diversion. And Mayor Schewel agreed and we I think we threw like $200,000. Um that's how we started eviction diversion. So, this this is a well-precedented um activity. We We've done it many, many times before. So, I just wanted to make

sure that was that was clear, that this isn't There's nothing exotic about this. And this is not first mention of it. It's on record at our work session. >> All right, thank you.

All right, there's a motion on the floor. Um yeah, go ahead, Council member >> I just want to say also I don't want to in the in the conversation about process, I don't want to get lost here that the Museum of Durham History is an amazing cultural asset in Durham. It does amazing work in its very small facility there. And so, I I think anything we need to invest in the museum would be great.

I've got a number of I had a number of folks reach out over the over the this last week and weekend to support this. So, I think this is this is absolutely something we should need to do to support the museum. Yep. I think it's just a matter of understanding the process.

Yeah, I think we all support. And Patrick, are you still here? Oh, there you go. Executive director.

Uh thanks for being here tonight. All right, there's a motion on the floor and one of us have voted. I'm not sure who, but uh If there's no other discussion, please execute your vote. I need one more.

There we go. Thank you. Madam Clerk, please close the vote. The motion passes unanimously.

Thank you. All right, I'll also entertain a motion to adopt an ordinance amending the general capital improvement project ordinance fiscal year 2024-2025 as amended. The same being ordinance number 16338. So moved.

>> Second. Excuse me, it's been um moved and properly seconded. Madam Clerk, please open the vote. Please close.

Thank you very much. It is unanimous. Uh I'll also entertain a motion to adopt the City of Durham EGI capital improvements equitable greening infrastructure um EGI capital improvements project ordinance fiscal year 2025-2026. So moved. Second. It's been moved and

properly seconded. Madam Clerk, please open the vote. Please close close the vote. It is unanimous.

Thank you. I'll also entertain a motion to adopt the City of Durham housing capital improvements project ordinance fiscal year 2025-2026. >> Second. Second.

It's been moved and properly seconded. Madam Clerk, please open the vote. Please close the vote. 7-0.

Thank you. And lastly, I'll entertain a motion to adopt a resolution superseding resolution one number 10389 to amend the internal service funds fiscal year 2025-2026 financial plan for the purpose of recognizing encumbrance carryforwards. So moved. Second.

It's been moved and properly seconded. Madam Clerk, please open the vote. Please close it. Thank you.

7-0. >> It is unanimous. All right, item number 19.

All right, this is a report on This is the report for on wildlife feeding. I have uh two speakers, Madeline Jones from North Carolina Animal Advocates United and Kaya Manson. Madeline? Welcome.

Thanks for joining us tonight. You have 3 minutes. Can everyone hear me? Yep.

Good evening. My name is Madeline Jones. I am a Durham resident. I'm a voter.

I'm a member of North Carolina Animal Advocates United, which is a local grassroots animal activist group. Um and I'm also the vice chair of Durham County's Animal Welfare Advisory Committee. I am speaking on behalf of the activist group, um but my comments do not represent the views of the county committee. I'm here tonight to share some of the

concerns local animal advocates have regarding the proposed wildlife feeding ban. We believe the ordinance as currently written is overly broad, vague, difficult to enforce, likely in conflict with county ordinances, and is being considered because of a single situation in Trotter Ridge. Recognizing that I only have 3 minutes to speak, I want to focus on the harm this ban could bring to Durham's community cat population. Community cats, and particularly feral or unsocialized cats, too often exist in a legal gray area.

Sometimes they're considered domesticated and are given the same protections as our pets. Other times these technically unowned animals are lumped in with wildlife. The proposed ordinance does not clearly exclude community and feral cats and the pet food many of them depend on from the feeding ban. Instead, it currently ambiguously defines wildlife as

non-domesticated animals that inhabit the area. Study after study has shown that the most effective way to stabilize and over time reduce outdoor cat populations is through trap, neuter, return or TNR. Community cats are humanely trapped, neutered or spayed so they can no longer reproduce, vaccinated and returned to where they were trapped. This process requires getting the cats accustomed to a consistent feeding schedule.

Without daily feedings, it becomes essentially impossible to trap some cats. Since 2023, I've personally humanely trapped over 150 cats within Durham city limits for neutering, vaccination and return or adoption. I have spent countless hours building trust with dozens of cat colony caretakers in Durham. So believe me when I say if you pass the wildlife feeding ban with its current vague language, you risk alienating your constituents who care for and feed

community cats. Many might avoid seeking help for TNR out of fear that if discovered, they'll be fined. This would result in A, uncontrolled breeding and B, outdoor cats not receiving their rabies vaccinations making this a matter of public health and safety. The proposed wildlife feeding ban at best would be difficult to enforce and at worst could lead to increased animal suffering, exploding community cat populations and public health risks.

We urge Durham's council members to oppose the ban entirely. If the council insists on passing it, they must explicitly exclude >> Thank you. Thank you. Next, I have Kaya Mensing.

She left. Okay. I Kaya is my former neighbor and I know she would be along the same lines as the previous speaker.

Um Thank you for joining us tonight. All right. Uh I will entertain a motion. That was number 19, right?

>> You've already received the report. It was just a report. Do I It was It was on consent, but there was no motion to take action. Excuse me.

Excuse me. Excuse me. Um do You've already received the report. The motion like there's So there was no The council was not taking action on that tonight.

All right. Okay. It's information. So we've already received the report.

So we don't we don't have to take action. >> Hardly, Mr. Mayor, there's a Zoom individual waiting for item 19. For item number 19.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right. I'm just going to take an interjection real quick. Some of my loyal council member attendees,

uh you sign up in person and virtually and it makes it really confusing for me up here. So if you got to come in person, please just sign up in person. Cuz we have to go back and shift things around when that happens and it it throws me off and now I'm missing people. So um I have a lot of scratch out marks up here.

All right. So this is Jean Money. Okay. Jean, can you hear me?

Yes, I can. Welcome. You have 3 minutes. Thank you.

Well, my name is Jean Money. I am not a resident of Durham. However, I do have a place of business in the city of Durham. I am here to advocate for the songbirds. Several years ago in 2019, a large study was done where we had lost 3 billion birds. Since that time,

there was a new study released in March of this year and things have changed slightly, but we are still losing many of our birds and these birds affect the economy, not just the outdoors, but there's a huge commitment that we could lose if we start taking away bird feeders, bird feeding possibilities or scaring people from the hobby. There was 1/3 of the US bird species are high or moderate conservation meaning that they are declining in numbers. 42 alerts of species that appeariously low. These are in our songbirds in North America. 100 people hunt 100 million people are involved in birding which creates substantial local economies.

$279 billion is spent annually on birding related activities. 4 million jobs are created. Then there's the crossover activities. 24% to 50% are deemed to be fishermen.

8% of birders also hunt. 6% of birders do both. 8 billion. The big box stores, pet stores, grocery stores added additional funds to that. Durham sees $1 billion in bird watching events, tourism and retail sales. Tourism brings visitors in for our natural areas and also brings in food sales and lodging sales.

Retail sales of birding equipment and houses are included in these numbers. Conservation funding, birds expenditures for conservation funding. Birding increases local property values with the green spaces in quality of life. It has been proven that bird feeding can have a significant impact on mental health of individuals.

Stress and anxiety are reduced, improved mood, enhanced cognitive and greater social connections. Thank you >> Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for joining us tonight.

Yes, she left. All right. Um Item number 19. All right. I and colleagues are not to entertain a motion on this due to the fact we've already received the uh We've already received the report and

there was no action to be taken. Yes. That's for something else. All right.

This is number 19. You're quite. I just want to say and I think Mr. Mayor, you started to say this earlier, but just so everyone is clear cuz I know that the word has gotten out and lots of people are responsive to this item.

We are going to be discussing the proposed ordinance and the language that's been proposed by the attorney's office on Thursday at our work session. m. and you can sign up to speak. You can either come in person or speak online the same way that you can come to this meeting and speak.

Um and so we don't have a final language cuz we actually have not discussed it. The only thing that has been discussed was whether or not we would entertain language from the attorney's office. The attorney's office has provided us language. We still have time to discuss and then it will need to go to a vote at

a meeting that'll be 10 days subsequent from that. m. I just want to make that really clear cuz I'm getting a lot of responses and people are worried that we're voting tonight. Nothing is being voted on.

Thank you. All right. We'll now go to our general business agenda items. This is number nine, rewrite of resolution designating city manager contract approval thresholds.

And I have one speaker signed up. This is Mimi Kessler. Welcome. You have 3 minutes.

Thank you. I didn't forget you, Ms. Kessler. Pardon me?

I didn't forget you. Good. Thank you. Um I wasn't kind of sure of the process. So thank you very much for letting me

speak tonight. I sent you an email this afternoon, but I don't think that you hold your breath waiting for my email, so perhaps you haven't had time to read it. Um but um about this item, I put in a FOIA request several years ago uh to have a listing of all the contracts that had been let that the uh city manager's office had um uh let. And I never got an answer to my FOIA request, uh which was not did not make me happy.

Um And this may be very innocent and and not reflect anything, but of course there are rumors. Um I have uh no objective reason to suspect that there is corruption in our city government at all. Um and um and I think that in the report it refers to 22% of contracts were before council, which sounds like a pretty good 80/20 kind of rule.

Um and I'm I apologize that I am not familiar with the residents opportunity to have oversight over these contracts. Um perhaps there is a committee or task force I'm not aware of. Um and I would like to know why it it it if there's so many of these coming through, I would like to know why it's so difficult for small businesses, particularly minority owned businesses, to participate in this economic opportunity. If you doubt that statement, um I could be very happy to facilitate your learning more about that. Um specifically to the um to the item uh of services uh there going from um 50,000 to 500,000 seems like too much of a jump. Um the this is an area where

uh there can be abuses to um some of the restrictions. And I would rather see it go up by uh twice, that is 100,000, than go 10 times higher. Thank you. Thank you very much.

All right, those are all the speakers I have uh for this item. Uh so therefore, I'll entertain a motion. Turn to speaker presentations. I'm sorry, this is the wrong agenda.

What just happened? Oh, here we go, right here. I'm I'm going to read the uh motion and then uh open up for discussion if there is any. All right. I'll entertain a motion to adopt a resolution updating the delegated authority to the city manager with

respect to making and executing contracts, leases, and grant instruments, the delegation of that authority, and to take actions regarding bids, proposals, and bonds. So moved. Second. It's been moved and properly seconded.

All right. Uh yeah, go ahead. Thank you. So, um I had asked for this to be put on the general business agenda, and so just so everyone is watching is clear, things that go through the consent agenda, we've already had an opportunity to discuss those, uh and we've left them on the consent agenda if all of our questions are answered.

Um this I didn't feel like uh was resolved, and I don't support it, and so I asked for it to be put on the general business agenda tonight so that we could discuss. So, we're talking about uh changing the threshold under which the city manager can make decisions without council's approval. So, we are looking at raises on that threshold for goods, three different categories, goods,

repairs, and services. Um and all of those are seeing a pretty massive increase, but the one that I'm particularly worried about is the threshold for services. So, currently, the city manager is able to make decisions that are $50,000 and under without that coming in front of the council. The request tonight is for that threshold to be multiplied by 10.

Um and so for any contracts for services that are other under $500,000, the city manager would be able to decide that without it coming in front of council. Uh there was a lot of discussion about this at the work session, and the response that I was given was that, well, these contracts are available for public oversight because there's a quarterly report. And I think we all know that functionally a quarterly report after uh contracts are already done is not the same as the public and also the council being able to see them before they are decided. Um I noted at the time, and I just want to reiterate my statements from then, that

we have a new city manager, we have not had an entire year under the new city manager, we have several new department heads, we have a new deputy city manager, um and so for me, the lack of demonstration of experience is a little bit unnerving to have a jump that is 10 times the amount for services. Um but I also went back through and just looked at our calendar year, and the things that were pulled by either the community or by the city council, um of the service items that we pulled, 65% of those fell within the 50 to $500,000 So, almost all of the things that either we or the public pulled to have a conversation about, those things would not be on our agendas for conversations moving forward. I understand that we haven't had seen a change in this in a long time, and um and I am would be okay with a slight raise, but I don't think there's any reason for a 10 times raise. Um it was noted that some

of our uh comparable cities have different ranges. Some of them have $100,000 all the way up to $500,000. Um but for me, the efficiency argument is not strong enough to take back uh the transparency that I think we will lose here. Uh so, I'm not supporting this.

Uh I would request, and I know that the manager had also discussed that this was a high-end threshold. Um he was fine with us having conversation around this number. Uh and so is my request tonight again that we only raise this times two, uh and do it to $100,000. That will uh help us in some efficiency, but also leave us with the transparency to be able to, not only us, but also the public to have conversations about these contracts before they're signed.

Mr. Baker. Thank you. Thank you, Council Member Cook. Um and just to just to share the actual numbers here, um the contract thresholds, this is um whether it's it's

over the threshold, council uh approves the contract. If it's below the threshold, uh the the city manager's office can can approve the threshold. Uh and and I support uh along with Council Member Cook um changing the thresholds on three out of the four proposed changes. Um those are for goods purchased going from 300,000 to 500,000.

Let's do it. Construction and repair, $300,000 to $500,000. Let's do it. Uh electric utility, $100,000 to $500,000, five five times the the current amount.

Let's do it. Um I agree with the Council Member Cook. Um I would not uh support I do not support I would not be comfortable with uh fully increasing uh the threshold for services contracts uh from $50,000 as it is today, which is low, um and if it were uh if it kept up with inflation from 2009, it would be $85,000

today. Um Council Member Cook is asking for for 100,000 for that being raised to $100,000, which exceeds the rate of inflation from 2009. I am not comfortable with raising it to uh $500,000. That would even exceed Greensboro, it'd exceed Raleigh.

Um and so I would also seek to uh limit the increase uh on the services contracts threshold. Council Member Freeman. Thank you. I appreciate Council Member Cook and Council Member Baker laying that those details, and I would just add to that in saying that just acknowledging you know, the history of how things have operated, and how we have mid-week in place, there's often a missed opportunity when we don't have an extra set of eyes or get in front of it before a contract is executed. And so, I know if I've pulled a number of contracts in the past um just on the basis of equity, and I I just want to make sure that I state I

I'm I'm comfortable with 100, I'm even comfortable up to 250, but 500 is excessive. Council Member Cabellero. Thank you, um Mayor Mr. Mayor.

Uh just really quickly at the at the work session, um I felt like there was consensus on the 250,000 part. I think everyone's at consensus around construction repair services and electric utility. It was just a Sorry, the services one is the one we're not on consensus around. And so, uh I am comfortable just to get us to unanimous um vote here to just uh it seemed like at least at the work session, most everyone was okay with 250,000.

Maybe they didn't love it, but they were okay with it. And so, um that would be my suggestion. So, it is a big increase, but responds to some of our colleagues' concerns. Council Member Rist.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Appreciate the comments from my colleagues. Appreciate Ms. Cancel being here as well. I think, you know, sometimes we we get focused like the issue is about the limit on contracts at

the one big issue. The truth is what we're doing here was trying manage, we've got a $700 million plus budget in this city, right? And we're trying to manage the workflow for staff and the council. We spend a lot of time on our agendas with contracts, a lot of time that we could be spending on other stuff.

So, I don't think this is any kind of um you know, some kind of something that managers are trying to put over on us. I think the manager is trying to help us be more efficient in the work we do. I think raising the limit makes a lot of sense as we've seen with other cities where they are. I'd support 250 and just again, this is about it's about getting better, delivering better as a city, being more efficient in the work that we do.

I think raising the limit needs to happen. I'm happy with 250, but again, this is a this is we face trade-offs all the time between working on contracts and thinking about some of the big projects that need to be delivered. I'd rather talk about that than talk about contracts of a sort of very small amount. So, I'm happy with 250 if we can get agreement on that um and the rest sounds good to me. So, thank you.

All right, sounds good. I I just want to put just a little bit into this. Um we uh chose Well, we had city manager Wanda Page uh which was she had the longest tenure in the city. Um she had one employer out of college, City of Durham, and she ended her tenure here.

She retired. And when she ended her tenure, we were um out of over 20,000 cities and towns, the number six best-run city in America. But, the person that was working about 13 years under her was William Bo Ferguson. He's one of the best there is in the country. He's been right there next to her and deputy city manager Bertha Winbush and deputy city manager Keith Chadwell for over a decade

running the city. It is now 2025. And there are over 22,000 cities and towns in America. Things changed a little bit, but we're still the number 15th best-run city in America with a AAA credit bond rating.

That's why we chose him as our city manager. And that's why we pay him and others handsomely. So, I don't want to doubt the capability. And I want to say this to every city employee in this city, we appreciate you. We appreciate what you bring to this community and what you bring to this city to allow us to be able to brag on why our city is so amazing. Now, I've also requested that we open our agenda up more so that we can talk about more content because obviously there's a lot of definitions

around things that we talk about a lot such as development and other things and housing and transportation that we don't necessarily get to put a lot of energy into. And I've asked the manager to open this agenda up so we can have more dialogue so that we aren't just trying to govern based on assumption. And this is going to give us more room in the agenda. We are real city, better than most statistically, factually, and in reality.

So, I um and I do think that going from 50,000, no matter the capability of the leader, 50,000 to 500,000, it is a big jump. But, we set the rules. And we did talk about this tonight. Let me set the record tonight.

It's not the first time we've talked about it. We talked about this in um in work session extensively. And I'm putting that out there because I know things like to be manipulated

on social media. So, I too, as I stated before, will be okay with 250,000 in exchange for us opening up this agenda and being able to talk more. And I want to be very clear. The public, the community elected us to do this work.

And it is unrealistic to think that we're going to be able to litigate every agenda item. I mean, that you're just not going to be able to litigate every agenda item with the entirety of the community. That's why you do town halls. That's why you engage with your constituents.

So, I just want to make sure that, you know, we're not treating this as there's trying something that's trying to be hidden. I want to make sure that, you know, folks know that we still have access to the information. We're the council. We can pull this information anytime we want. And we get these these uh agenda briefs.

And it's up to us to go through it, do our homework. That's what you elected us to do, do the homework and bring it before the public in this setting right here. This is the community work right here. This is what you elected us to do.

So, that's what this is. That's what's happening now and we talked about this and majority of us said, "You know what? That that is a big jump. " So, tonight uh and I appreciate Council member Cook, she stated she wasn't comfortable with it and she would put it on general business agenda and that's why we're here tonight.

We're talking about it. So, I just want to make sure we put all of the context out there. Um the manager suggested a quarterly report. I asked for weekly and make sure we can have access to it anytime we wanted to and we do and we will have that. And if anybody from the public wants access to it or feels uncomfortable with anything, you can reach out to your representative at large or ward or the mayor's office to get this information and get our thoughts on it as well. But, everything everything

that we do is public. So, there's a motion on the floor. It's been moved and properly seconded. Madam Clerk, if you will please open the vote.

I'm sorry. Say again. The motion is Oh, we need to we need to adjust the number. Sorry.

So, um So, again, this is another situation where the numbers is not in the actual motion. So, we need to capture it uh publicly. Um Let me go into the memo real quick. Miss Mayor, do you want a motion for 250?

I I need a motion to uh it was for all three as is and then services from 50,000 to 250,000. Is that the consensus? Is that that is that the Yeah. Yeah.

Can I get a thumbs up for consensus? 1 2 3 4 5. Okay. All right. So, I have a 5-2 consensus.

Uh so, we'll change that language to be captured publicly and moved into a formal into formal language. Madam Clerk, are you capturing this? I think we can read each of the motions independently and we can just substitute the new amount for 500 when we read the services contract. Just read it correctly into the It's only one change. You can just read it correctly into the record. So, the motion that I have before me is to adopt a resolution updating the delegate the delegated authority to the city manager with respect to making and executing contracts, leases, and grant instruments, the delegation of that authority, and to take action regarding bids, proposals, and bonds in the following categories, goods purchases from 300,000 to 500,000, and construction and repair from 300,000 to 500,000, and services from 50,000 to 250,000,

and electric utility from 100,000 to 500,000. So moved. I second. It's been moved as a and properly seconded as amended.

Madam Clerk, please open the vote. All right, please close the vote. The motion passes unanimously. Thank you very much.

Colleagues, I am going to call us into a break before we move into our public hearings and let us report back at 9:10. We are in recess. Mhm. Yeah.

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We're going to get started. Please have a seat. We are now at our public hearings. And the first one up is item number 17, local historic landmark designation of the best chicken in town that is not in the agenda, but the Chicken Hut.

Yes, sir. All right. So, I do have So, basically we'll be conducting a public hearing to receive comments and consider the following motion, which I'll read in just a moment. So, um Yeah.

Welcome. We have a staff report. Thank you. Good evening. I'm Carla Rosenberg with Durham Planning and Development. And before I begin, staff would like to state for the record that all planning and development department hearing items have been advertised and noticed in accordance

with state and local law, and affidavits of all notices are on file in the Planning and Development Department. 17 acres. The request is submitted by Preservation Durham. The Historic Preservation Commission gave its recommendation for approval for both the building and the land being designated with a 7-0 vote on July 1st, 2025 with comments issued August 5th, 2025.

And the North Carolina Historic Preservation Office issued a letter of recommendation on June 10th, 2025. And staff is recommending approval of this request to include both the buildings and the land associated with the parcel. And I'm happy to entertain any questions that you have. Thank you.

You've heard the staff report. Are there any questions for staff or comments? All right. At this time, I'll declare the public hearing open.

This is the updated one. All right. And I have Mr. Skip Austin.

Oh, I'm sorry. The applicant, do we have the Oh, there you go. How much time do I have? How much You're an applicant, so you tell me how much time you need.

Um can I have 10 and I'll try to do it in less? All right. Let's put 12 on the clock, please. Welcome.

Thank you. So, Julianne Patterson, executive director with Preservation Durham. And just a little bit of background context as to why Preservation Durham is the applicant. The owners, Traina and Kaya Tap, initiated this process on their own a

few years ago. And the way that this designation process works, a property must first be listed on the study list. That's basically a flyover history of the building, its significance and it's to see whether or not the building is eligible before somebody invest more time and resources into a full nomination. So, the Taps presented this and then requested assistance for completing the next steps to research and write the full nomination, which often requires significant archival research and understanding the architecture.

Attempts to support the nomination led by volunteers of our organization lagged while we went through staff transition, but last summer we rebooted the project in earnest led in large part by Julia Leisure, who was our summer intern, but is now staff of Preservation Durham. And we worked with the Taps to document their family's story and the story of the Chicken Hut and officially submitted the nomination with them earlier this year. So, Preservation Durham eagerly agreed to work on this nomination because we believe it meets criterion 3B3A,

um which means that there are it's associated with events that have made a significant contribution to the broad patterns of local, regional, or national history, and specifically related to its association with Durham's Civil Rights Movement and its standing as the oldest continuously operating black-owned restaurant in Durham. org through our organization as well as the excellent staff report. And I can never tell the full story in a single presentation. So, I encourage you to read over the nomination and we'll just attempt to provide some highlights to its timeline.

So, it originally the business originally opened in 1958 as the Chicken Box as the Chicken Box on Apex Highway by Clayborn and Julia Tap. And it was actually a concession stand at the drive-in theater. It was a family-operated business, still is today, with much of the work done by Clayborn and his wife, Peggy Tap, and it is now owned and run by Traina and Kaya Tap. In 1961, it relocated to 410 Roxboro

Road, where it grew in popularity. And in 1966, it was forced to move again to its current location at 319 Fayetteville Street due to urban renewal due to the urban renewal project in the 1960s and 70s that disrupted the Hayti neighborhood to create NC 147. And it's been at that current location ever since. And although other locations did open, this is the longest continuously operating location.

And while it may appear to be an unassuming commercial building, its architecture is also significant. Modernist architect Kenneth McCoy Scott designed the Chicken Hut from 1965 to 1966. He was the first in the graduating class from Henry Kamphoefner's newly formed NC State University School of Design. And then after graduation, Scott taught at the school and worked for Milton Small, the same Milton Small that I'm here advocating for associated with 505 West Chapel Hill Street.

So, Scott completed a preservation project early in his career at Historic St. Joseph's AME. He designed many modernist residences in

Durham and worked with other prominent architects including George Matsumoto and Jack Pruden. We were able to get the original drawings and plans from the for the building from the NCSU archives, and the building is much the same as it was as originally designed in 1966. And as of today, the first building that shows up on NC Modernist profile on Kenneth McCoy Scott is the famous Chicken Hut. The historic impact and significance of the Chicken Hut and its intangible heritage is remarkable.

Again, to summarize a few highlights, the business supported civil rights demonstrators in the 1960s by supplying meals to those jailed or on curfew. It served as a community gathering place or a third place for local activists and political organizations including the Durham Professional Chain of Business, Black Youth for Progressive Education, the People's Alliance, and the Dirty Durham Committee on the Affairs of Black People. And there were so many references to the Chicken Hut meetings when we were doing this research, it I really cannot

understate its significance in that regard. It served as a community gathering place for NCCU including hosting their football press conferences. There's some really cool news articles in the nomination related to that. And it also organized and sold tickets for performances by famous artists like Otis Redding, Little Richard, and Fats Domino.

And the business today continues to support the community by donating free meals to numerous organizations and individuals. So, to provide some modern context of where this building is located on Fayetteville Street and the parcel under designation, showing a map here. As well as some contemporary photos of the exterior and interior of the property for documentation including its original sign, which I believe is going to be restored thanks to a recent grant from the National Trust for Historic Preservation's backing historic small restaurants grant. So, in conclusion, Preservation Durham

fully supports the designation of the Chicken Hut as a local landmark to honor, document, and preserve the impact of this Durham legacy business with its historic significance and integrity. We are grateful to the Tap family for inviting us to assist with this application and want to acknowledge their enduring role in creating the legacy we celebrate today and in continuing its stewardship for the future. And I didn't go anywhere near my time. So, thank you.

[Applause] Thank you so much. I do have a speaker online, Melvin Skip Austin. Melvin, can you hear me? Yes, I can.

Can you hear me? I sure can. Welcome. You have 3 minutes.

Good evening, mayor members of the city council. My name is Melvin Skip Austin. I come before you tonight wearing

several hats. First as the co-founder of the International Civil Rights Center Museum in Greensboro, North Carolina. Where the sit-ins took place on February 1st, 1960. Which was recently named a national historic landmark in December 2024.

Also as the chairman of the Guilford County Board of Commissioners, having served there for 28 years. Also as a proud native son of Durham. And most personally as the second cousin of Clayborn and Peggy Tap, the founder of the legendary Chicken Hut. And as a former employee of the Chicken Hut, who spent five formative years working there while attending Durham High School and later North Carolina Central University.

The Chicken Hut is not just a restaurant. It is a living institution. For more than six decades, it has led not only the body not only the bodies, but also the spirits of this community. It has been a gathering place for generations of Durham families in

support of our churches, schools, and civic causes, and a proud example of black entrepreneurship and excellence. At a time when opportunity for African-Americans were limited, Claiborne and Peggy Tap Tap built something lasting, something meaningful, and something that gave countless young people, including myself, their first chance to learn the dignity of hard work and community service. When I co-founded the International Civil Rights Center Museum in Greensboro, I learned firsthand the power of preserving places that tell our story. Our history lives in the spaces where people gathered, worked, dreamed, and overcame.

The Chicken Hut is one of those places. It represents the heart of Durham's black business legacy, a bridge between the past and the future, and a reminder of what perseverance, faith, and family can accomplish. Today, as the next generation, led by my cousin, Claiborne Trey Tap III and his lovely wife, Kaya,

as they carry the legacy forward, I urge this council to recognize what so many of us already know, that the Chicken Hut is a landmark, not only in location, but in meaning. By designating the Chicken Hut as a local historic landmark, you are preserving a history of resilience, community, and pride. You're honoring the Tap family's contribution to Durham's cultural and influential fabric. And you are ensuring that future generations yet unborn can can continue to gather around that same restaurant, feel that same sense of belonging, and taste that same history that shaped so many of us.

I thank you for your time and your consideration and your commitment to keeping Durham's history alive, one landmark, one legacy, and one plate of fried chicken at a time. Thank you again. I appreciate your consideration. [Applause] Thank you so much.

I felt like I was listening to a speech, you know, in history. I lost track of time. Thank you, Mr. Austin.

Um the next speaker I have is Julianne Patterson, which I've heard is the applicant, Joseph Henry Young Sr. from Young uh Architects. Welcome. And after Mr.

Young, I will have Christa uh Umstead Johnson. from the Durham Exchange Club. Trey, did you sign up? Did you wanted someone else sign up?

Do you remember who it was? Madam Clerk, could you text me? Oh, you already text me. Sorry.

Am I up? Welcome. You have 3 minutes. Yes, thank you very much.

Yes, my name is Joseph Henry Young. I'm the owner of Young Architects. I'm a licensed architect in that uh

realm, as well as I'm a licensed home inspector. I'm also a certified HUD consultant. I've been a member of the commission under your auspices of the architectural advisory appearance commission. Uh my projects throughout the 30 years of my firm have been with renovation and improvements, particularly in the Durham community community, both the private and the public sector.

And I come here to you tonight to encourage this type of business. It's a business that is hard to do not only as a uh operating the full service, but to preserve the building. The building requires a lot of maintenance, a lot of repairs, a lot of improvements, a lot of just hard

perseverance to the cause. Not only is the building of significance, but the site. Those who've been here in Durham knows how the Chicken Hut was surrounded by a lot of different elements, and they have improved the parking lot. They've done a significant uh influence on the Durham community community.

Um I have also been the founding president of the North Carolina National Organization of Minority Architects, and with that, we have tried very diligent and have been success successful in preserving those types of environments. We are proud of the black neighborhood, but they need support. The subsurface conditions are often not dealt with, and they deteriorate. The unforeseen elements often times don't get taken care of, but the Chicken

Hut has done that. They have taken good care of the building, have been very good stewards of that building and the site. So, my support, I'm here today to encourage that as an influence on other businesses like the Chicken Hut. Say, "Hang in there.

" Part of my being a HUD consultant is to provide monies for buildings to not be dilapidated, uh condemned, but to give money to encourage those buildings to survive and to thrive. And the Chicken Hut is a prime example of that. So, I encourage you to recognize the Chicken Hut so that they could be an example to many other businesses. Thank Thank you so much.

Thank you. [Applause] It's Umstead Johnson. Welcome. You have

3 minutes. Good evening. My name is Christa Umstead Johnson. I am employed with Durham Exchange Club Industries as an assistant manager of our job placement program.

Our organization is dedicated to helping individuals with different abilities find meaningful employment within the community. October is National Disability Employment Awareness Month, and the theme for this year is celebrating value and talent. I've had the privilege of serving on the mayor's committee for persons with disabilities, and 20 2016, um the Chicken Hut was honored for its commitment to hiring individuals with disabilities. Not only did owner Peggy Johnson Tap hire a referral from my program, but she also went above and beyond by proving tran- providing

m. in the morning, because at that time, the bus system was not running. The Chicken Hut has consistently opened the doors to individuals many employers might have overlooked, or maybe been unwilling to work with. Their compassion, dedication are not only evident in the food that they serve, but in the lives that they have lived and served the community with heart and integrity for over all these years. I challenge other employers to follow this example, hire someone with a different ability, and become a model of true community engagement, just as the Chicken Hut has done. Today, it is my honor to recommend that the Chicken Hut be officially recognized as a Durham City Landmark for its

long-standing commitment to inclusion, service, and community support. Thank you for your time. [Applause] I have an additional speaker, Christopher Logan. Welcome.

You have 3 minutes. All right. My name is Christopher Michael Logan. I was born and raised here in Durham, North Carolina.

I now reside in Greensboro, but I just want to say a couple of things about uh Trey, his mother, his wife, and family, is that when I first met Trey and I started working for his mother, I remember my first time catering. I tried to pick up two pans of spaghetti. Both pans fell. I felt bad. First time catering, and uh she said, "Chris, don't worry about it.

" So, she called somebody at the Chicken Hut, had them bring over four more pans. And right then, I knew that she was a nice, sweet lady, and they had a backup plan. So, what I'm saying now is that if the Chicken Hut was a historic landmark, they would always have a backup plan for it would to continue to be a historic landmark. And I just want to say, thank you for your time.

Thank you. [Applause] Those are all of the speakers that I have signed up. So, therefore, at this time, I will declare the public hearing closed and back before the council. Colleagues.

Council member Freeman. Thank you. I just wanted to check with um Mr. Tapp and see if he wanted to say anything. I know you didn't sign up to speak. But if you did if you don't it's fine.

Let Let Let me actually uh cuz I was going to ask him to do that. Uh let me address the council first and then let them have the last word. That's That's fine. I know.

I know. I just want to say um I appreciate the opportunity to make um this site a historic landmark and to be on council at this time to say thank you um for the many many meals that have you know filled my belly and the family. Uh I know you've covered many a funeral many many of summer camp many of um you know just emergency situations that have come up and um I think you know it's it's I I see your face but I know the family carries the load and so I think thank you for the opportunity to be here this evening and say thank you to you all and um just continue to do what you're doing. It's not as um I think it it it tells the story and the story is still continuing. And I wish it wasn't the way that it is but it is and we'll continue to do what

we can to make sure that it continues the way that it needs to. I thank you. That's all. Council member Cook.

Okay. Um not a lot to say that hasn't already been said. I just um really want to reiterate what Mr. Austin said that this is already a landmark.

This is um those of us who live in Durham we already we already know the importance of this and I am like my colleague said very grateful to be on the council to be making this decision tonight. I do want to note that when I interviewed for this position I was appointed I was asked what the best meal in Durham was and I said the Friday oxtails at Chicken Hut and I got some heat from some some one specific restaurant owner up here. I just want to say um so just you know for what it's worth um I actually you know I always I think going on Fridays is maybe the worst decision because then you have to

choose between the chicken and the oxtails which is a nightmare but um yes best meal in Durham uh and a place where I've gone and and had a lot of really meaningful conversations and so I'm really grateful for the opportunity to recognize y'all tonight and grateful for your for your history in the city and um really looking forward to good things to come. Thank you. We go to war over oxtails in this city, okay? We go to war over oxtails.

Council member Best. Thanks, Mr. Mayor. Yeah, um this is a is a fun moment here in the council.

Um I want to thank you all for the the years of amazing food but also being for being a community institution in Durham. Um as you may know I'm the oldest person on this council. It gets spoken about from time to time and I just want to lift up what Jillian said about the the famous Chicken Hut meetings, you know, cuz when I first got to Durham which is a long time ago um I heard all about these the the Chicken Hut meetings. That's everybody talked about that. So and that was like those were way before my time so I know that goes way back but that was an important part of bringing folks

together on some tough issues and that was really an important role you all played and I want to thank you for that. I'm so glad you're here for this uh award. So thank you. Mr.

Baker. Yeah, we uh we live in the world that was built before us by previous ancestors and we leave to the next generation uh the world that we built and we can't talk about uh we can't talk about our city without talking about the physical world that we live in, the architecture, the design, and we also can't talk about those things without thinking about how they influence us, how we shape the world and how the world that we live in shapes the people in this world. We can't talk about architecture and historic architecture without talking about the people, without talking about the architect, without talking about the builders and the workers and the people who showed up and the community that supported it and uh

the the owners. It's impossible. There's no conversation that involves historic preservation and historic architecture that doesn't involve the people and human beings. There's no uh conversation about historic preservation architecture that doesn't talk about shaping the world and the world shaping us and so um it's these are special moments.

I love items like this that we all get to enthusiastically support. I'm one of them and um I'm looking forward to uh continuing to have meals here and um and continue to support this as as an important institution in in our city um and it is such an important one one that is central to uh to who we are and the identity of of the city of Durham. So uh thank you so much for uh all the work that you have done and um and again I I'm looking forward to enthusiastically supporting this item.

Um there's you've been here and you probably watched us so when you're going you're going to get a very happy unanimous yes and I'm very excited about it. I just want to say uh thank you all also for feeding the community during the pandemic. Uh that was a a critical time. Uh we we knew a lot of kids who often got their meals at DPS.

We knew that that was a resource that was deeply needed and so uh just a heartfelt thank you and a lot of gratitude for everything you've done for Durham. Council member Thank you, Mr. Mayor and thank you, colleagues. Um it was fried chicken that saved America.

It was it was soul food that was on the table where folk sat around and and refused to allow America to sell herself out. Uh who talked about making us face the promise that we so boldly declared to the world that all men should I said people but all men are created equal and we would not allow her to give up on herself and it was soul food that fueled that um movement. I don't know how many votes I've taken since I've been up here

but I I know the votes that I'll remember. And this is one of those nights. Um Harlem has Sylvia's where our leaders met. Some might say it's Amy Ruth now but it was Sylvia's and Atlanta it was Pascal's um and Durham has the Chicken Hut.

These iconic places where America was redeemed. Um I'm so excited about casting this vote. Um this is just one of those nights where the job is just so cool to have at this time in this season. Um God bless y'all.

Thank y'all for what you've done and for the legacy that you continue. Um let's press on. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

Thank you. So um feel like this is America's Got Talent. The golden buzzer. Um so it gives me great personal honor tonight to support this because it's personal. Um I was a young college kid um hoping to be drum major one day at

NCCU and I would go into the Chicken Hut. You had to have cash. I would go in Chicken Hut and your mother was there. " And she always knew the drum major, you know, um cuz we were marching on the street for homecoming every year.

And um I don't know. It just it just felt like family and it reminded me when I was home in Scotland Neck, North Carolina. And I loved going there because I was first introduced to your food at our band banquet at NCCU and you all catered for us every single year. The sweet tea that would give you a sugar rush.

I mean it would make you dizzy. But it was so good you could not stop mixing the sweet tea and the lemonade and and I didn't know if you had anything else on your menu cuz all I wanted was a chicken leg and a chicken wing. And um the mashed potatoes or gravy, you know, just I remember it like it was

just yesterday. Um food is what brings us together. And I remember when my my my my wife and I when we said we're going to just open a restaurant. We're going to do it.

And we started looking around and the first thing we did were we realized all right, we're black so let's see how black-owned restaurants are doing it in Durham. And I remember her saying well, we got to do it like the Chicken Hut. Cuz you guys have been around forever before we were born. " You know.

Yours is one of the first places that people say. And it's not because just the food is good but it's because they want to be able to taste our city's culture. They want to be able to taste the culture and the history of Durham. When you go into that

unassuming building you walk on the same floors as the people that we read about in history books. So I mean I know how hard the job is from fellow restaurateur to another. But I know when you put your heart, your love, your soul into it you're doing more than just food on a plate. You're telling the community, I love you.

And there's nothing more personable than that. I appreciate you for always opening your doors. You know what I'm talking about with the sheriff and I. I appreciate you being that secret place for us to meet with our community's most vulnerable.

Thank you. Thank you for being a staple in this community. Thank you for your family. You all are the city's DNA. Continue to be our spine.

All right. And with that, I'm going to ask you to please let this world see your face and your family's face. If you could please mark this moment with us by sharing a few words. To everybody can come up and stand behind him.

And this is being recorded on YouTube, so you can always go back and pull it up. I'll say around the 2-hour and 9-minute mark. Cuz I want people to that are watching this to see what Durham is all about. Um I'm not really a public speaker, so I'm just going to speak from my heart.

Um I want to thank the mayor, city council, um the beloved city of Durham, um my family, my friends, um the community. Um this really means a lot. Um today I

was nervous all day. Um I know we're a staple in the community, but leaving here tonight um will be a landmark in Durham. And for my daughters, um just how my parents worked so hard, poured so much blood and sweat and tears, um they had so much of a passion of giving back. They loved their city.

They loved the community. They loved giving back. Um Thanksgivings growing up, um my Thanksgivings were spent with my mom and dad giving back to the homeless shelters. You know what I'm saying?

I just saw that. So, that's what's engraved in my heart. You know what I'm saying? I want to continue that legacy on, continue to give back.

Um I was always taught you got to give to receive. So, this is is um my my heart is filled with joy right now. Um I just wish both my parents were here to see it. Um but I'm sure they're um smiling down from heaven. Um and that's why I'm so emotional. To me, um it's a lot of hard work that

me and my team put in every day. And like I said, we just love the community. We love the city of Durham. And now I'm just so happy that we forever be a landmark in the city of Durham for the future and for future people to realize and see, man.

So, I really sincerely from my heart thank all of you. Um this means so much. I'll never forget this moment but as long as I'm here alive, man. So, thank you so much.

Thank you. Can I say one more thing? I also would love to thank Preservation Durham cuz they they helped us so much and I even learned history about my restaurant that I didn't know. You know what I'm saying?

I can't ask my parents, but thank y'all so much. I sincerely thank y'all from my heart. Without y'all, this wouldn't be possible. So, thank you.

Thank you. All right. [Applause] And with that being said,

colleagues, I'll entertain a motion to adopt an ordinance designating the Chicken Hut I did. Yeah. I'll entertain a motion to adopt an ordinance designating the Chicken Hut as a local historic landmark including both the building and the land. >> Moved as read.

>> Second. It's been moved and properly seconded that Madam Clerk, please open the vote. Please close the vote. Motion passes 7-0.

It is unanimous. Thank you. [Applause]

Thank you, colleagues. So, we're moving a zoning case to the next meeting, so we can end on that. [Laughter] Here Here comes Aaron. All right.

And our last item on the agenda, number 18, consolidated annexation, Heartland Park Subdivision. We're ready for the staff report. I'm really supposed to follow that up. Now what I know what it feels like to perform after Beyoncé at the Grammys.

Um Mayor Williams, Mayor Pro Tem Middleton, and honorable council members, good evening. I am Aaron Cain with the Planning and Development Department, and I'm happy to be here with you tonight. A request for a utility extension agreement, voluntary annexation, and initial zoning map change has been received from Paul C. 999

acres and located at 1021, 1105, and 1213 Doc Nichols Road. This annexation petition is for a contiguous expansion of the primary corporate limits to allow one up to 117 townhouse dwelling units. 001 zoning is generally consistent with the designated place type. Thank you.

Staff and the applicant are available to answer any questions. Thank you very much. You've heard the staff report. Are there any questions or comments?

If not, I'll declare the public hearing open. Welcome, Mr. Barker. How much time do you believe you need?

Uh under 4 minutes, Mr. Mayor. All right. Put 5 minutes on the clock, please.

Welcome. Good evening, Mayor Williams, Mayor Pro Tem Middleton, members of the city council. I'm Patrick Barker, an attorney with Morningstar Law Group. I live at 2614 Stuart Drive. I'm here tonight representing Ardent Building LLC, uh which is the applicant

for the Heartland Park Development. I want to thank the staff for their presentation. At 117 townhomes on about 13 acres, Heartland Park is a dense but small project. The density is quite surprising for this area, but there is a reason for that.

Unlike many of the projects you have seen in this section of Durham, this piece of property does not have any environmentally sensitive areas. You can see in the staff report that there are no wetlands, steep slopes, riparian buffers, or things like that. This allows us to build more efficiently. Accordingly, this project achieves the densification within the urban growth boundary that our comprehensive plan envisions.

The townhome project is consistent with the place type map place type map designation, and there are conditions which go above and beyond what is required. We will be using native plant species, and we will have a 10-ft wide shared path along Doc Nichols. Additionally,

based on the recommendation from the Bike Ped Advisory Committee, we have included a commitment to keep the sidewalk flush with the driveway for a better pedestrian experience. This specific design will be subject to approval by NCDOT and the city. So, if they approve it, we will build it. Also, we have committed to 5% of the for-sale townhomes being affordable at the 80% AMI level for 30 years.

When we went to the Planning Commission, we had already committed to handling the 100-year storm. Neighbors brought up that they would like to ensure that the commitment also includes provisions not just for the permanent stormwater infrastructure, but also for the temporary sedimentation and erosion control measures during construction. We heard that feedback, and after the Planning Commission meeting, we worked with the staff to adjust the language of that commitment to make sure it applies both to the temporary stormwater measures during construction as well as the permanent stormwater measures that

will be in place when the homes are occupied. In conclusion, this is a good, sensible project. It addresses the need for housing and does so in a responsible way on a relatively small piece of land. We are at PDR 9.

94. 2, but there are also a few PDRs that are in the range of two to three units per acre. The reality is that those lower densities simply are not going to help the city keep up with the growing demand for housing. I think the city needs to take advantage of the parcels where it is actually possible to build at these higher levels of density.

And this project does just that. Thank you for your time and consideration tonight. Our team will be happy to answer any questions, and we respectfully ask for your approval. Thank you. Thank you very much.

All right, I have a few speakers here. Starting online, Sarah Telen or Sarah Thelen. Can you hear me? I can hear you.

Can you hear me? There you go. Welcome, you have 3 minutes. All right, super.

Thank you city council members and Mr. Mayor Mr. Mayor Pro Tem. I'm Sarah Thelen, living on Buck Road.

I'm here to speak in favor actually of high density housing specifically in Southeast Durham. With the influx of people and development specifically there, there is an impact to that creation system and fire and police and EMS and that's been talked about quite a bit. My question though is where are the firefighters and teachers and police needed for this part of Durham expected to live? You know, the average home price in Durham is $243,000. The median salary for a firefighter is just over $66,000. Police are about the same.

So that means they would have to give over 47% of their monthly salary just to live in an average home. A teacher is even lower at 56,000 around 56,000. So over half of their monthly salary would be just just living. The affordable town homes options offered here by the folks here today would allow the very people that we need to live close to where they work.

If we could get more teachers and police officers and firefighters to move to Southeast Durham. The shortages mentioned and and talked about quite a bit could be ameliorated. An important factor to consider is the environmental impact of development certainly. And that's been talked about quite a bit and and felt quite a bit on this road.

That's why I think higher density housing projects like Hartland Homes and some others should be considered and approved. Denser housing allows for less sprawl, more people on less land, more land saved for trees and farms and green space. There are still 39 households a day

moving to Durham. To preserve the environment, higher density housing should be must be prioritized. A larger question for the council to me is what does Durham want to be? A welcoming place or or fearful one?

There are some projects including this one that have been waiting for approval for 2 and 1/2 3 years and still not approved. There are people still waiting for housing. There are people still getting priced out of their own neighborhoods with nowhere affordable to go. Still people want to move to Durham and can't.

I know the sting of change because our house is on Buck Nichols Road and one of the original ones, not the new development. And it went from darn near a dirt road and a quiet little place where we brought our firstborn to smooth blacktop and sidewalks and busy lots and lots and lots of new neighbors and places for our kids to go trick-or-treating. Not all change is bad but fear of change is. We cannot be afraid of the inevitable change

happening all around us. We must welcome it and find ways to allow the folks we know, we love and we need to be safe and to be housed. Please approve the Hartland Park subdivision motions. All those new residents can and should absolutely go down to Fayetteville Street and eat at the historic chicken hut as well.

Thank you. Thank you so much. Next I have Tina Motley Pearson. All right.

I'm going to add you. All right, that's it. All right. Um I'm sorry. All right, next I have Pam Williams

followed by Donnie Nichols followed by Wanda Allen followed by Pam Andrews. Yeah. Just come to the podium. I'm calling up the four speakers I have Pam Williams, Donnie Nichols, Wanda Allen, Pam Andrews.

You guys go in whatever order you need to go in. Donnie, okay. You prefer to go after you said okay.

Good evening, Pamela Andrews, Wake Forest Highway. On September the 15th, Sound Rivers and the Southern Environmental Law Center announced the settlement of a lawsuit to stop ongoing sediment pollution from residential development into three streams, Martin Branch, Hurricane Creek also known as Earthquake Creek and Lick Creek after 2 and 1/2 years. We must do better to protect the environment in Falls Lake. Runoff from Hartland will likely flow into Earthquake Quick Creek as you'll see in photos.

Additional measures were agreed to in the settlement. Establish strict environmental monitoring, commit to sampling dewatering affluent which is federal recommendation by the EPA as well as it's required by the state of Virginia. Construction erosion control basins at least for 100-year storm and we do appreciate that. Use sediment bags as basin outfall, properly dispose of the sludge, stabilize exposed soils and large dirt piles, smaller phases for grading to avoid exposed soil. But we

also need to reduce impervious surface less than 50% 70% is is proposed. The tree preservation needs to be at least 30% 20% is proposed. 8 opacity with maintaining existing mature trees for boundary buffers between the two developments. 6 is proposed if mass grading occurs.

Maintain existing proposed zoning of residential rural RB. The high density does not fit the character of the existing neighborhood. Commit to no blasting, no variances or waivers on the text commitments, complete environmental studies for federally protected species to protect the wildlife. Next.

Hartland needs to adhere to these added measures stated in the settlement. Don't let history repeat itself. Stop sediment pollution by stabilizing exposed soils and new erosion and sediment control measures. Higher impervious surfaces equals more sediment

pollution. Sediment is the leading cause of water pollution in the state. The effects of sediment pollution can persist in stream beds for long after the end of construction. The destruction of a habitat can affect water quality, aquatic life and wildlife long-term.

Sediment pollution degrades water quality and makes it difficult for the fish and other aquatic wildlife to breathe and to live. " I want to sincerely tonight thank Samantha Crop for everything she's done to save Lick Creek. I want to also thank Southern Environmental Law Center without them this would not have been possible. And to the development team, I ask you to please consider these comments. Lick Creek cannot take more destruction. Thank you.

Thank you. Next. Hi, I'm Wanda Allen. Name is Allen.

I'm ready. This project covers more than 12 acres and our protected watershed. We need that impervious surface to be limited to no more than 50%. No more than 50% allowing up to 70% impervious leads to dramatically increase of storm water runoff both the amount and the speed leading to more flooding and sediment washing into our creek.

It also raises turbidity, deposit scoopable sediment and nutrients into the streams, lakes and worse overall water quality and heat island effect. So we need 50% impervious surface on this project. Okay, the photos here clearly demonstrate mass grading poor

erosion controls are causing serious sediment pollution in some of the most environmental sensitive areas including streams, wetlands and lakes. We're asking the this project to restrict environmental monitoring following EPA and the Virginia best practices including sampling water as they dewater for stability and erosion control basins for at least 100 years. Developers should also be required to use sediment bags before releasing pump water into the creeks to prevent further contamination. Look at this photo here, seeding of disturbed soil. Current photos clearly show bare soil, deep washout gullies, and

large piles of dirt left unseeded, and all which guarantees sediment runoff. We're asking that all undisturbed areas be seeded within 7 days. Failing to stabilize this exposed soil violates the Clean Water Act and leaves the taxpayers footing the bill. Cleaning up the pollution to the streams and the creeks and the lakes.

We can no longer allow North Carolina's streams, waterways, and Falls Lake to become a dumping a dumping ground for developers. Our Our community deserves more than the minimum enforcement and lasting protection for our environment. Thank you. Thank you.

Next. >> Good afternoon. My name's Pam Williams. Uh boundary buffers. Uh as you can see there's existing trees on

these three lots that are proposed, and this is Ovation here. Uh if you try to read the the buffers ordinance and everything, it's like trying to put together a Rubik's Cubit for me. We are requesting at least a 30-ft buffer around the property, all the way around the property, and also along the roadway uh with the 08 capacity. Trees are necessary to reduce the heat island effect, provide habitat for wildlife, provide more filter for runoff, and provide neighbors privacy and vistas.

Replacing existing tree covered boundaries with almost nothing isn't sustainable. When I talk about almost nothing, I want to show you some examples of what's going on out in Southeast Durham, and it's just It's just Southeast Durham, but this is where I live. This is uh after 3 years. This is the landscape between the residential house and the townhomes that went in on Ellis Road. This is Sharon Road. This is the road right here, and this is the tree coverage between the townhomes and

the road. Uh on Dot Nichols, this the same road, this is the roadway. This is what we have for landscape and trees. This used to be nothing but trees, and it was beautiful in the fall, and there other developments have done better.

Uh Fenel Farms at uh Leafmore Road, Brightleaf on Sharon Road, they have uh a tree coverage, and it it looks very nice. And so we're again requesting 30-ft buffer and 08 capacity around this property. This uh the UDA Okay, the comprehensive plan Everybody talks about comprehensive plan. The UDA zoning is in the comprehensive plan, and they're rewriting it.

Right now, this property is zoned rural residential, okay? The The planners who y'all paid, y'all's planning staff, y'all paid consultant, have come up, and they said that this should be zoned RB, not RD or RX at a high density. RB is a low density. If we

continue to make these changes and continue to change all the RR to RD, then all the planning we've done is Why do we spend all that money on it, okay? Why are we spending money on it? Um right here, the comprehensive plan policy uh 15 They met 15 of 22. Why in the world couldn't they meet all of them, first of all?

This is a small It has no environmental uh It has less environmental issues, but it has no streams or riparian buffers or anything like that. Uh three of the policies uh just because they're meeting native plants. They met three policies. In fact, they exceeded three policies.

Uh we're asking for a less than 50% impervious, 30% tree preservation, 8% opacity. Thank you very much. >> Thank you. Next.

Okay. I don't know which slide you want. You want to do it yourself? Or you want

me to use this one? >> need to go back. Go back one. Okay.

Yeah. Um You want to do it yourself or you want me to Oh, I can do it. I don't Man, what a thing to follow up after the chicken hut. Sorry, guys.

Annexation. Um I do want to Well, let me say my name is Tina Motley Pearson, and my address is on file. Um So I I do want to reiterate what what Pam Andrews was saying um and draw your attention to the the recent settlement regarding serious violations of the Clean Water Act in Southeast Durham. And it is a difficult area with the Triassic basin soils that are highly erosive. But in this case, you know, the developer is going to have to pay $270,000 to Triangle Land Conservancy to protect a tract of land in the Little Creek watershed, pay $80,000 in civil penalties and fees for harming water quality and aquatic life, pay $50,000 in attorney fees, and go above and beyond the requirements of the UDO. So there there are things that happen, you know, when when we've been saying over and over

again, like look at look at how bad the creeks are. Well, this is It is clearly a violation of the Clean Water Act. Samantha Caplan of Sound Rivers says this settlement serves as a powerful deterrent to bad actors who recklessly harm our waterways with irresponsible construction practices and unambiguous warning that pollution of our waterways will be met with serious legal and financial consequences. So as we take a look at Little Creek, you know, long-term sediment pollution will kill an entire aquatic ecosystem from the very building blocks of aquatic life and up.

And Sound Rivers has documented this in the Little Creek watershed. The developers have not committed to going above and beyond any of the UDA requirements for open space, sediment and erosion control, or tree retention. The bare minimum approach will increase water quality pollution, runoff quantity, heat island impact, and flooding. Car-dependent sprawl. Every single housing development that has been approved in this watershed has

minimal affordable housing proffers and little in the way of contributions to schools, greenways, and other community necessities. Maintaining the existing zoning would better serve the environment and surrounding communities than this proposal. And developers should provide a commitment to sample dewatering effluent. All right, so commitment to no blasting.

Uh blasting has caused well damage, permit violations, home damage, foundation damage, groundwater damage, and um if blasting occurs, over 240 homes are at risk with no recourse. And this is based on several residents who hired structural engineers to assess damage to determine if blasting caused it. And the answer was blasting caused the damage, and there's nothing anyone can do about it. No one's ever been paid back, or you know, the wells My gosh, Junction Road, has that been almost 3 years now?

It's just ridiculous. Anyway. So waivers and variances, there should

be no variances or waivers on the tax commitments and environmental UDOs. We need to protect our trees, buffers, wetlands, and streams. Thank you very much. And I just think I should say the Planning Commission did fail this 4-7.

All right, thank you. Thank you. Donnie. Welcome.

Does it start when I start? You have 3 minutes. >> Okay. Good evening, Mr.

Mayor, Mr. Mayor Pro Tem, honorable Could you speak into that mic a little bit more? There you go. Okay.

Can I start again or not? You're good. Just keep going. I'll let you Okay.

Good evening, uh Mayor, uh Mayor Pro Tem, honorable City Council members. My name is Donnie Nichols. I've lived in Durham for 4 years. Uh I moved to Sagewood, this area, uh because it was such a lovely area.

Uh we welcome others who want to move here. But things have changed. At least two neighbors in the last who've moved uh here in the last 2 years and excuse me, last year would not have if they had

known about plans for more high more high-density development. Um my neighbor here, uh speaking of storm storm water runoff, lives across the road. Her um she her drainage has been regraded four times, still to no avail. Her next door neighbor has a permanent ditch strictly because of across the street, which is where this would be.

Um My question is, when is enough enough? When do you decide that the limit is reached for development in this area? Hartland is considered a small development, but our community lives with the cumulative effect of each city council decision. These are straws that break the camel's back.

Road infrastructure. 8-mile two-lane road with no shoulders. It is rated at a capacity of 13,600 vehicles per day, which is exceeded by the planned over

600% increase in traffic more than 850 vehicles per day just from Hartland Park alone. That's a capacity fact. That's not an opinion. Public safety capacity.

There are already staff shortages in fighting EMS and police that affect us. Each new development makes it worse because it's a cumulative effect. School capacity. The local schools are already at or close to capacity while the other approved developments are still being built.

There is literally no physical space for new students to convene. Environmental impact. This development would not improve the water quality issue that was recently won in court. Much wildlife is already displaced and causing problems.

Coyotes are becoming more aggressive near my house and they're threat to our pets and small animals. Sorry, pets and even children. Um

Exponential development without the same increase in actual infrastructure creates a substandard community lacking the basic framework to thrive. We're not opposed to development. We are opposed to development without beyond common sense and capacity. Please vote in agreement with the planning commission's no on this project.

Thank you. Okay. Durham's growth should not come at a detriment for existing residents. Thank you for listening to your constituents as you steward this great city and the chicken hut.

Thank you. All right, those are all of the sign-ups that I have for this item and therefore I will declare the hearing public hearing closed and back before the council. Um but let me retract that. I'm sorry.

I'm going to declare the public hearing back open. Mr. Biker, would you like to

respond to any of the commentary you heard? Thank you, Mr. Mayor, members of council. Patrick Biker again for the applicant.

I just want to take issue with a with a couple things. One um Could you speak into that mic? >> Oh, I'm sorry. This new podium's throwing me off.

Um I have appeared before this council for many years now. This is the first development that I can recall that committed to detaining the 100-year storm during the construction phase. So, I have to take issue with the characterization that our client Arden Building LLC has not been uh stepped up to the plate in terms of environmental stewardship. I also want to mention that there is a 45-ft buffer owned by the Sweetbriar HOA behind um this development. So, accordingly there is a buffer in place. It was installed

as part of that rezoning when it was approved. I I I do want to step back a little bit because I worked on Fennel Farms. I was the attorney for that project. Bill Bill Bell was the mayor of course I was he was mayor for a long time.

So, I apologize for not remembering exactly what year it was. 944. 944. It was uh a lost opportunity. And so um when we look at this part of Durham, I really view uh the proposal before the council tonight is sort of like an infill development.

W. Alexander. So, um I do want to emphasize those points for the council that this development team has stepped up to the plate in terms of environmental safeguards. Uh this is uh interconnecting previously approved developments so that it's not 100% auto dependent.

Of course, there's no transit in this area. We we know that, but there are other options and I know in the projects I've worked on Fennel Farms, Creekside uh people use their bikes a lot within those developments. And so we respectfully ask for your approval. I think we've we listened after the planning commission. Uh we heard the criticism of the planning commissioners and we made uh new commitments to address those

concerns. Um so, I think the comments from the planning commission were illustrative and we we've done our absolute best to address them. In close lastly, I do want to address the impervious surface. Uh when the Durham County and the city of Durham adopted the watershed protection ordinance back in the mid-90s, it was agreed upon that this area outside of the critical area would have up to 70% impervious surface.

And so on a 13-acre project, that means that about four acres will remain grass or trees. Um and so that was a development standard that to my knowledge is one of the strongest ones in the triangle for watershed basin areas. Uh for example Wake County, Orange County, Chatham County, all those places have half-mile critical areas. Durham has a one-mile critical area. And so part of that was that we approved a 70% impervious

surface limit in the basin area. And so we'll be happy to answer any questions. Welcome your uh welcome your questions and any thoughts you may have. Uh but that's the background on this project.

And we we do again respectfully ask for your approval. Thank you. Thank you. All right.

I have no more speakers. Therefore, I'll declare the public hearing closed and back before the council. Colleagues. Thank you.

Um Mr. Biker, I have a few questions for you. Um at the planning commission, it was asked if there would be possibility of more affordable housing and your team said that they would look into it. Um can you talk about anything that might have come from that conversation?

Uh Council member Cook, members of council um based on that input from the planning commission, we will increase the affordable housing proper to 7%. Uh again, that's 80% AMI affordable townhouses for a 30-year tenure. So, that'll be an increase from 5% to 7%. Thank you.

Hey, thumbs up from staff. We saw here Okay, great. Thank you. Um another question that was asked at that time was about connectivity and I was hoping that you could um walk me through again why we can't stub out from um There's Sorry, let me just make sure I'm I'm remembering it correctly.

I There's one spot where we are not able to connect. There's a gap in between that's the in the south southern part. >> Oh, to the south? Oh, that yeah yes.

>> Um can you just talk about is has there has there been any conversation about possibility of connection there with the adjacent land owners or can you just talk about I know it doesn't come all the way to the property, but any conversation about like that land in between? Uh that's HOA property owned by the Sweetbriar um well, it's it the neighbor it's under development. So, it's there's really actually um Uh since it's private property, we don't have any right to cross it. And so it's um because it's being used to meet the open space commitments of that development.

Uh we have not pursued that and I think the connectivity that you have east to west it really doesn't get you anything to go south because it's only probably 200 or 250 ft from the intersection further to the east. Sorry, it doesn't make it doesn't add anything to connect to that stub out because why? >> Right, because there's another road already connecting to the south.

Okay. By the connection that's coming out of the eastern property line. Okay. Um I want to ask you about subsurface evaluations.

Is it generally standard that you just don't do them before you come to council for a rezoning? Typically they're quite expensive in order to have one that's um reliable, it would be an expensive undertaking because you if you do a handful of borings you maybe just got lucky on those borings and didn't hit any rock and it would be yes, it would be a an expensive time-consuming undertaking to do a comprehensive geotechnical evaluation of of any site unless it were really small like one or two acres. It doesn't impact your idea about the cost of a project if you don't know if you have to blast.

It's we can factor in that as a contingency, but that's not um I would say it's not material one way or the other. relative to the host of other costs that are involved with uh the horizontal construction before any vertical construction can occur. Yeah, that's interesting. I mean, I feel like when we talk about blasting the conversation comes up a lot where it's um y'all are often saying blasting is the last resort because it's so it's exorbitantly expensive.

>> Right. Um and so it's just confusing for me to hear you say that you write that into a contingency and that's not a problem, but doing a test beforehand is like too costly. Yeah, I'm sorry. It It's there's a wide range of factors that go into the horizontal development. So, for example, if you're familiar at all with the Harris Teeter at um

Glenwood and Teeter at Alexander. And this was 10 years ago. I was shocked that it that the the grading cost for the Harris Teeter in the and that shopping center was $9 million and that was 10 years ago. Mhm.

So, when we're looking at the costs, is it high? Absolutely. Do we factor it in as a contingency? Yes, but we've we've because it's a relatively low risk, it's not viewed as something that we certainly not something we want to do, but it's also something that because it's relatively low risk, there's relatively high cost associated with with grading the site in order to make it uh ready for vertical construction that it's it's viewed as something that we put in as a contingency and um if it has to happen, then it has to happen.

And so, at what point do you determine if it has to happen? At what point? >> going through the site plan process. And so, we're at that site plan process

doing that subsurface testing and in doing it in a way that's more holistic. Right, because when we're doing a site plan, that's a very comprehensive engineering document that costs well into six figures. And so, that's a different calculation for our development teams and when we're going through the rezoning process where all the money that's spent on consultants is uh 100% at risk if the rezoning is not approved. Okay, thanks.

Um and then I know you just talked about it, but I'm just going to raise it again. Um is there anything that can be done either about the preservation of the trees or about the impervious surface? Are we able to get more tree preservation? I mean, I what we're seeing happen and what we are going to see happen in Southeast Durham um is that we are getting hit by major

climate disaster type storms. So, we're seeing flooding, we're seeing intensive heat. Um And so, I'm worried about clear-cutting all of our trees and um honestly, if we're going to talk about true affordability and not going to talk about environmental sustainability, like we're not having a true and honest conversation about the cost of these things. Um so, is there anything that y'all are able to do in terms of either the impervious surface or the tree preservation to make those things Uh again, for the record, the the pervious surface will be approximately 4 acres and 20% will be open space and tree coverage, which equates to between 2 and 1/2 and 3 acres. It It The answer to your question, Council Member Cook, is no because if we committed to more pervious surface and more tree coverage, we would have to reduce the number of townhouses. And so, this reminds me of

the case I had in April over on Page Road with the um uh low-income housing tax credit where it's a trade-off. Do you want housing or do you want trees? You can't have both. On this site that's this small.

It's only 400 about a 425 ft deep and maybe 1,250 ft long. So, we're not talking about a very large area. Um if we increase the tree coverage by 1%, we would lose at least three probably four or five townhouses. So, that's the trade-off that would be involved.

It would not be Sure, we can we can have increased tree coverage and 117 townhomes. That's not feasible. Okay. Um those are all my questions. I just want to point out that UK said in your rebuttal that y'all were responsive to things that came up at the planning commission and I just want to point out

that uh nothing has changed until you increase that proffer uh of affordable housing since the vote was taken at the planning commission. Um y'all had already done the 100-year storm during That was a proffer that was made during the planning commission. The vote was taken after that and there have been no other changes since that time. So, I don't think it's exactly honest to say that y'all had made any changes to the project before it came before Council cuz that's not that's not accurate.

Uh but I don't have any other questions. Thank you. Mr. Baker.

Uh I don't have any questions. I can make some comments. Do people want to ask questions first? You can go ahead and make your comments.

All right. Well, I appreciate this. Um Mr. Baker, one day I would love to read like if you have a blog or or a book about your history lessons in development in Durham. I I love all of your knowledge and all of the history

that you know about the development. You've been here You've been around for a long time here in Durham and so uh But I'm not old. I just want that to be on the record. >> You're not old.

You're just wise. Um appreciate that. Um so, you know, at this point, you know, when I when I look at the when I look at the annexation map, this is clearly a a logical plot of land to to annex into the city. It's surrounded by the recently approved annexations.

Um and um you know, so there's not really a lot more that can be done with with with plots of land like this that are sort of stuck in between very large annexations that have taken place. Um I think this is I think this is likely to pass this evening. Um I I you know, I'm an urban planner. I I can't in good conscience um vote for this. Um I think I'm a pretty consistent no vote on a lot of the cases out here um

since 2017 we at the city of Durham have annexed half the area of Manhattan in sprawl in annexations um and rezoning cases that have resulted in primarily low-density low-density single-family sprawl that is attached and detached um sometimes other kinds of developments and and uses um car-centric auto-dependent um and replacing forest and farmland, which we're growing city. We We grow outward. Uh replacing forest and farmland does occur in in growing uh and thriving thankfully thriving metropolises. Uh so, having a good growth management strategy and plan is very very important for cities to to have. Um and and at some point you do have to tear down things that you love um uh like trees and forests and order to replace them with homes and with

commercial and retail and all of the things that we need um to to live our lives and to thrive as a community. Um so, it's about how we do it. It's about what it looks like. It's we live in the the built environment that was created by past generations and we leave to future generations the built environment that we are creating using the DNA that that uh we have in the unified development ordinance to shape that world.

Um and uh with the engine being primarily private private developers working within the framework of the unified development ordinance and and our zoning map and our comprehensive plan. Um so, since since 2017, we've we've grown by the half area of of uh uh Manhattan uh and this is to the detriment of things that we we care about, things that we talk about. Vision Zero going backwards. Accessibility to child care going backwards. Sustainability carbon uh carbon emissions going backwards on a per capita basis. Uh

parks and access to parks going backwards. The trust for public land, we city of Durham out of the top 100 most populous cities in the country in 2017 ranked 72nd, today ranks 97th uh in parks and park access. Now, apply that to many other kinds of things that we need to get to on a daily basis and things that make living life uh great. Um so, how we grow matters.

It affects not just the people that are moving to those areas, but also the people who are living uh in in uh municipal uh limits. Um you know, I I I mentioned I I frequently vote no on on these kinds of cases. Um and so, I I from time to time, this might surprise you. I have uh been accused as uh being anti-development or anti-housing, uh even though it's it's a passion of mine as an urban planner. Um but, I feel backed into a corner uh when cases come forward and

they are sprawl uh rather than something that is more mixed-use, more walkable, more transit-friendly, something that I would love to vote for um uh with uh preservation where where necessary and reasonable of of uh open space, uh especially public open space and public parks. Uh I feel backed into a corner because I I I can't in good conscience continue to support and vote for uh sprawl. So, when it comes to this particular case at this particular uh moment, uh it is surrounded by by recent cases that have that have already been annexed in into the city. Um there's not much else that can be done uh in a location like this.

Probably, there could be more, um but but again, um I I can't in good conscience uh support support uh continued continued sprawl cases. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Baker. Uh Council member Cavallaro.

Thank you. Um I'm I'm going to pass for now. Thanks. Sounds good.

Council member Freeman. I was just going to pick up on um a couple more questions and just uh around the opacity. I know you said that there were I was trying to understand You said there were 45 ft on the current on one side or on all sides? >> HOA.

Uh well, the the long side, the long side that's uh between um our proposed development and Sweetbriar, uh the Sweetbriar HOA property is approximately 45. Uh creates a 45-ft buffer between their townhouses and these townhouses. And the rest of the Par- pardon me? >> And the rest of the It's like a rectangle, so there's three other sides.

>> I don't think there'd be anything on the on the short sides. The yeah, no, there's nothing to worry about on the short sides. It's just that 1,250 ft rear property line that already has a 45-ft buffer on it. >> And would that 45-ft buffer create an a point eight opacity level?

It's It's hard to know. I mean, you that that's all defined in the ordinance. Um it it probably be less than that, but it'd be close. And then uh these are these are all townhomes.

Are they Are they accessible by wheelchair? I'm sorry. Would they be accessible by wheelchair? Um I'm sorry.

I mean, we we'd obviously have to make uh allowances for ADA as a federal mandate, but um that's that other than that, that's the uh the plan is for these to be townhouses that would that would be just essentially townhouses that um would uh to pick up on on what the first speaker said in his theme, provide housing for teachers and first responders. Thank you. I I just had a a question for staff around the seeding.

Is there a Is there a guideline around that? I know they asked about 7 days. Good evening. Sarah Young with Planning and Development.

So, the ordinance has three tiers of time frame for seeding. This is the sedimentation and erosion control portion of the UDO. Uh for uh steep slopes, it is 7 days, and then it's 10 days for kind of moderate slopes, and then low slope or no slope areas, it's 14 days for seeding. And this is a no slope area, right?

I think so. I think so, too. Um and so, it would be 14 days. Is there any consideration around making that 7 days? I'm sorry. Is there any consideration around making that 7 days?

Um I would think that um just just making a clarifying point. I know you were you were making comparisons to like Raleigh and other areas. Mhm. The Triassic soil and the tomato soup situation that we have here is kind of um specific to this section of town.

And I think that, you know, anything we can do to prevent as much runoff as possible would be beneficial. I I I'd also say um I I I of course, uh as usual as per usual, I agree with Council member Cook and Baker, and I really am interested in what else could be there um considering the the large, you know, uh single-family attached or detached um that will be there. Can I mean, it's it's essentially what we're what you're bringing forward is additional sprawl and an already stretched area, and I'm I'm

beyond the the construction side of it, what will actually be the non-extractive part that comes to this part of town and creates the kind of 15-minute city, you know, like what bus stops will be Like all of those things matter because we're trying to create um community, not just housing. And so, I know there's a whole lot of conversations about, you know, just build more housing and then, you know, community will come. That's not how it works. I want to be real clear.

As um Council member Baker said, it's really like, where are the daycare centers? Where are the grocery stores? Where are Like all those things that you can walk to matter. And and these type of um I feel like they focus specifically on land use um for capital gain and nothing more, and that's hard. So, even for the teacher, the fireman, or the you know, police officer, they are still going to

be stuck in a car to get to anything that they need to get to, and that's what's hard about approving these cases. And so, I know that my colleagues have approved the other cases I've been a no on, and it's just it just makes it harder and harder to look at these cases as they come forward knowing that townhomes aren't going to cover the great tsunami that's growing. The baby boomers are the largest population of folks, and they're needing they're in need of housing. And knowing that disabled people also need Like these are all considerations that have to be taken into account.

That's why the mix of housing is important. And so, just adding 117 houses with, you know, I think you said how much tree coverage? Is it 20? 20%. 20% tree coverage. Like where these are not It's not balancing out to be

non-extractive. It's It's pretty much an extractive development case, and so I'm going to be a no as well. So, that's all. Thank you.

Council member West. Thanks, Mr. Mayor. Um yeah, thanks to the residents as always for coming out.

You all are so so dedicated. I appreciate your your willingness to stay late and and and bring your response and your your feedback on all these cases. I know there's a lot of development pressure in Southeast Durham. Um so, I have one question.

Remind me, so these are for sale or rental? For sale. And what's the price point? Do you have a sense of that?

80% AMI. I would say um in today's dollars, if they were on the market today, they'd be right around 300. So, but and our median right now in Durham is about is above 400,000, right? So, this is below median home price.

>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. 425. For the ones that are For the ones that are designated as affordable, they'll have a 30-year deed restriction to maintain that affordability.

Oh, oh, oh, the oh, oh, the other ones. Do I'm sorry. I misunderstood you, sir. >> Yeah.

The the market rate. What what's that? >> rate one? Probably in the mid 3s.

So, again, below the median. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, definitely.

So, just a couple thoughts. So, so, you know, these are all complicated, as we know. Um and I you know, going back to the earlier discussion about contracting authority, it's not one thing or the other. It's about balancing tradeoffs, right?

That's what That's what we're dealing with up here. Um and I want to Council member Cavallaro, that you just completed the housing that's housing study, right? And then, I think if I recall, the number was like we're short like 25,000 affordable units in Durham. Is that Is that correct?

It depends on the Like 30% is going to be different than 80%, right? Like what you need at each area median income is going to be each level is So, like at 80%, what do we need? Is like >> is going to be because the market clearly can deliver more even though that the the mid-range point is hitting at a at a lower point, right? So, the

the place that we need the most affordable or the the the place that we're going to have the most needed units at the 30% area median income. So, the 25,000 includes all at all levels of I think so, yeah. >> Yeah. And do you know what 80% affordable or 80% AMI?

>> Yeah. But it's at some point like to me this is it's still about housing, right? And I think that your question's fair like when is enough enough? And I think until we meet that gap, we need more housing in Durham.

So, I do appreciate the additional property of 7% affordability. And I actually I do appreciate the that what you've done on the stormwater side both the temporary as well as the permanent stormwater basins at 100 year. I think I'm not sure we've seen many cases that have had that commitment to >> to me. Yeah, so I appreciate that.

Um I also, you know, I'm a member of BPAC and I BPAC always puts in comments and feels like those comments are not always sort of like, you know, or acknowledged or always sort of responded to, but I appreciate the high visibility crosswalks that have been that are the flush of the driveways. That's also not something we I've seen recently, Sarah. That's So, that's So,

again, assuming you get approvals from the city and DOT, I think that's also a real benefit. Um I do want to talk about this connectivity thing cuz this is I think and I've actually had conversations with a lot of like residents and folks in the last several weeks, month or so during this election period as we again fight about development stuff. " And so, to me well, actually I want to ask you first. So, on this connectivity piece.

So, if you were if you were once this development is built, right? If you were to bike through what's the one development in the Fennel Farms Fennel Farms. Yeah, you would bike through there might be a little bit of Sweetbriar Fennel Farms uh uh Carolina Arbors and then you'd be into uh the Corners at Briar Creek where there's a Harris Teeter and >> So, how close are we talking like 2 miles, 5 miles? Like how close is that to like the area?

>> Probably I would say it's approximately 2 miles. Might be a shade less. Okay. And then um So, yeah, so I think I think what we're battling about in some ways is that I think we all want the same thing. I think we all want a

connected city, the 15-minute city, right? Um yet we are we are growing in Durham. We're the Now, we're the third largest city in North Carolina, but we're the ninth biggest by land size, right? So, we're somewhat we're smaller than most these bigger cities.

>> Yeah. Um and so, as we like we we have to build this infrastructure out to these new communities. We've got to do that. And so, I just want to note that while we don't have I mean, 3B is the bus that goes the closest out there.

I think it ends at like Mineral Springs. So, it doesn't go all the way out to like Olive Branch, right? Um but we do have as folks probably know, we do have this GoDurham part of what the transit department has done is this this GoDurham Connect micro-mobility demonstration that serves East Durham, correct? And so, they as I understand those those on-demand door-to-door micro transit services do go out to like do go out to Olive Branch, correct? So, there So, we So, we don't have a full transit network out there, but we are building out additional services to serve folks in that area. It's imperfect, but I think if we if we wait till that's all fully built out, we won't have that will

become unaffordable. So, to me we this is the tradeoffs. We've got to build more housing. We've got to build transit to serve that.

And so, again, imperfect, but there to me there are ways that over time people will will be able to will be able to get from this development whether by biking through Fennel Farms and Carolina Arbors or using our GoDurham micro transit. There are ways we can connect to transit. So, again, imperfect, um but I think on balance I will be supporting this. So, thank you.

Thank you, Council um Mayor Pro Tem. Uh Council member Vote, did you have any comments? Mayor Pro Tem. Thank you, Mr.

Mayor. Thank you to our friends and neighbors who are who are here with us tonight. Um So, I I think the um the answer to the question of when will there be enough development will always be sometime after my closing date. Will always be after my closing date. Um

If if you moved here within the last 5 to 10 years, you're part of the problem according to a lot of people. Every argument that's being made tonight was made about you. Every single one of them. You were going to bring more cars.

You were going to cause more traffic. You were going to exacerbate our infrastructure. Um and if some had their way, you wouldn't have a home here. That's that's a fact.

So, I want to say you are welcome here. And you're welcome. I A lot of terms have been have been used here tonight and I just want we're policy makers. So, we we have to address at the end of the day we can't Well, we can, but at the end of the day we should address situations with firm actual policies.

Durham's policy answer to the problem of sprawl was an urban growth boundary. That's the policy. That's That was our firm way of responding to what we call

sprawl. And I'm it's intellectually challenging for me and I say this respectfully, it's intellectually challenging challenging for me to hear some extol the virtues of our comprehensive plan and yet call development within the urban growth boundary sprawl. I I don't I don't understand how you can celebrate our policy addressing of sprawl and yet still within the urban growth boundary because that's the policy. That's how That's how we as a municipal family have said we're going to deal with it.

Here's the line and you you better have a really compelling case for us to go beyond this line. So, within this line, we said this is where we're going to focus building. But yet we're still calling within that line sprawl. Car-centric sprawl. Um and again, for me it's intellectually challenging. If you never ride the bus, how do you talk about car-centric sprawl when your life is based upon a car

and you never get out of your car? And if we don't have buses in an area, how else are we getting there? We We We have not attained that level of of a metropolis city where we have and you and this is somebody who rides the bus, verified rides the bus. Um we don't have that type of of transportation system yet like a New York or a Chicago where it's very easy to make connectivity.

You have to make a plan to ride the bus in Durham. So, to say we're forwarding car-centric sprawl in areas where we have no buses by people who don't ride the bus, I just intellectually don't understand that. The other thing is who If you own a business, who's going to build a business where there are no customers? Who's going to run buses empty buses out to a place where no people live?

It's It's density that drives transportation. It's density that drives the presence of businesses. Now, if you want to open a business and hope the

customers move there, have at it. I'm not a great business tycoon, but but my understanding is that you you want customers and you need a customer base to sustain it. So, I I want to, you know, I'm I'm I'm challenged by understanding when we've come up with policies to address these things um how we then extol where the policy is, but then call still use certain characterizations for things. Um One of the things we value and and you know, we we've heard that we do things to the detriment of what we care about.

One of the things we care about is putting human beings in homes. We care about trees. We care about our our streams. And we And human beings have different requirements for living than animals.

Our our our our habitation requires different things than than animals in nature. So, So, we we choose I I think housing human beings is a noble thing. I also think preserving trees and preserving our our rivers and our lakes is a noble thing,

but there's always going to be a balance. So, I don't know if if which one of us is the arbiter of when it's okay when the project uh uh uh meets a certain balance. I've watched projects now for years. No matter what the first number is, a lower number is always going to be better.

Or a higher number is always going to be better. Whatever the starting point. I've never seen the perfect starting point where the bartering did not um commence. Uh You know, the other thing is is um It sounds really impressive to say you know, we half the area of Manhattan.

And that I'm from New York. As I've said before, Manhattan is the small Manhattan's not New York City. And I think we deliberately when you print that image, folks think of the movies and they see New York and they see all this sprawl. It's five boroughs.

Manhattan's one borough. It's the smallest borough. It's 22 I

2 square miles. So, cut that in half. We're North Carolina's third largest city. When you put it in con I mean, it sounds impressive, but when you put it in context, I I'm Is the argument that New York is bad big city therefore we don't want to be I don't understand what the the the graphic is supposed to create in our mind other than oh wow, New York is so big and so crowded and so out of control, we don't want to be like that.

I just it's it's just not a a a the the the impact of that example I think does not serve the the discussion well because it it it relies on us filling in the blanks for our self. Filling in the blanks based upon what we think we know and what we see on television and movies, but in reality, it's the smallest borough in New York City and it's half of it and it's New York and you're talking about a case of 10 years. Yes, we're a growing urban city. So, I I just want to be clear that it may sound dramatic,

but when you drill down as a policy maker, the reality is very different when you put it in context, but I understand the purpose of it. Um finally, I think when you look at what's around this piece of land, what else is going there? Um what else would we put there now? We can talk about scale.

We can talk about okay, well, less um units, less town homes, more trees, but we have to understand that whatever your value is or whatever your decision is, that's yours and we're a deliberative body, but who's to say which one of us has the holy grail on that? What why should my balance or my uh equation be any more moral or righteous than the other person's? We're all doing our best trying to struggle on how do we manage a growing city and welcome people who are still coming here, who got here within the last 5 to 10 years. How do we welcome them and how do we balance uh uh our environmental uh

needs and and what we want uh as a people and still respect each other and do it honestly uh and bring our best selves to it. And we're all I think and I believe every person up here to a person, that's what we're trying to do. What I will not do is suggest that no matter how anybody up here votes, that they are somehow betraying what we hold valuable, that we don't care about certain things. Um that's the beauty of a deliberative body.

We bring our best selves and our different perspectives and we craft and create with a city. We dream out loud together what we want our city to look like. What I will not do is question your motives or question uh how vested you are in Durham's values, but I I I I will push back when we create images or use language that suggests one thing that does not comport with reality. And finally, again, if we have an urban growth boundary and we're talking about a development within our urban growth boundary, I need a definition of what sprawl means

when you have an urban growth boundary. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Um Mayor um Cabrera and then Baker.

Thank you. I'll just be brief. Um I just wanted to say thank you um to both the community and the developer tonight. Y'all have been pushing.

There's an improvement on this with the storm water um during construction and then the increase to 100 year storm water. And that's essentially how I approach these cases. I understand that doesn't make me popular. I understand that many of the folks who are here don't like that approach, but that is that is what in my mind what rezoning is.

It is an incremental and are we moving the needle in the right direction? Um and I think when I look at this project and I and uh um Mr. Baker, you or Baker, you said that um this evening you were part of I think Fendol Farms. Um and I I look at Carolina Arbors and I look at Fendol Farms and I know that that wouldn't get

approved here now. They didn't actually offer enough to get an approval from this council, the previous council and probably the council before that. So, I think that that is my approach. Um are we delivering housing?

Um the proffer got increased. When I first was on council, there were no proffers. Um have we improved on so soil erosion um water issues and things? Yes, we passed uh more stringent ordinances.

Is it perfect? No. Uh I appreciate Council Member Freeman's point about extractive and feeling extractive. That is unfortunately part of being in the system and it is a hard thing to reconcile as a human.

There's nothing that we do in any day in the center of the empire. We are the empire people. That is not extractive. There's no way to exist and be in the United States and be a US citizen without being extractive. Um that is something that uh

I understand the angst. Uh it it it makes me angry. Uh if you looked at pictures of me from 20 years ago, you would see that I had a very a different lifestyle at that point. Um and and so that that sits with me.

I understand that turmoil and that angst and um it makes these decisions hard, but that's essentially how I make them. Are we moving it forward? Is it better than what we saw? Is it responding to some of community demand or response?

Is it moving the needle on housing? And if it does that and it aligns as best, you know, not every single policy is matched here. There's some things that I would have liked to see. I understand we're budding up with density.

The site isn't very big. And so, I will be a yes and I just wanted to explain clearly that um that that's my approach and I understand many may not like it, but at least you can understand my rationale. Thank you. Thank you, Baker. Yeah, I just want to respond to some of the comments that were made that were

clearly directed toward uh my comments. Um half the area of Manhattan. Manhattan is something a lot of people are familiar with. We could talk about football fields.

We could talk about neighborhoods. Whatever it might be. It's 7,188 acres. It's about half the area of Manhattan.

Um with regard to sprawl, what is sprawl? Is sprawl location? Uh I would think of sprawl more as something that is car-dependent, um that induces more traffic. Um uh so, it's not just a location, it's a use.

It's a a design uh and it's it's uh and it's an intensity. That um density, diversity, and design. These are the elements that create a walkable places. Uh sprawl is cul-de-sacs, car-centric, not much to walk to if anything to walk to. Um often times inadequate infrastructure, although not always. Um lack of access to services, lack of

access to things like child care uh in in areas. So, um sprawl is not just about a location, it's also about a form. It's about the built environment that that people live in. Um and I've actually had believe it or not, I've actually had fantastic sit-down conversations with some of the larger home builders, the Mungo Homes, the MI Homes, um especially back when I was on the planning commission starting in 2018. Um and I've you know, uh as a professional planner working on the city on the other side and bringing stuff to the the uh uh city councils and and planning commissions back in the day, um I would have lots of sit-down conversations with developers, um but but when I sat down with MI Homes and Mungo Homes, you know, at this point several years ago, um I said, "Why don't you guys bring more more walkable kinds of developments? Why don't you bring stuff that has non-residential uses in it and a mix of housing types um that's uh form-based and and in a form that's that's more pedestrian and

" You don't make us. This is our business model and it works and we make money off of it. And if you made us, we're not going to we're not going to advocate for you to make us do that. But if you made us, we'd do it.

We'd still make money off of it. Um and uh so, I think that's an important thing to to note. And of course, uh when when uh you know, uh when there are when there are four votes on on the council, uh for three of us, it's it's difficult to to negotiate things uh with developers. It's it's difficult to have conversations developers and say, you know, would you please do this, this, and this?

And sometimes developers will say uh yes and sometimes they say they say no. Um and they don't have to and that's and that's fine. That's that's their that's their right. Um so, just wanted to share some of those some of those thoughts in response to um some of the comments that I heard. Thank you. Council Member Freeman.

Thank you. I I did want to just track back um to staff question around Junction Road cuz I hadn't heard I didn't know that there was still an issue there. Um and not there's not been no remedies? I'm not sure.

Can you be more specific about Junction Road? So, I I do believe that the blasting created some issues with the wells there and there was some water brought in and I know we're it's city county planning. It's not limited to city. So, do you have any information on how this the county is trying to address I I don't >> or the developer is trying to address the the water on that side. Uh my understanding was that the the county several years ago offered, which is a completely abnormal way to do it, offered that landowner to cover at least half of that community well and that landowner refused. So, that is where

that's living. I have no idea if it's been updated or if the um offer was it you know, updated since then, but in fall of 2022 or fall 2023, the landowner was given substantive financial relief from the county and he turned it down. If I could just ask if staff could follow up. I just want to make sure that we're not missing something.

Even if it is on the county side, just to make sure for the since 2022 if there's not been a follow-up, that that sounds a little off for them not to still have water. Sarah Young with the Planning and Development Department. I can check with the county to see the latest. I know that we were also offered the range of possibilities including their own annexation, etc.

and staff met and talked with all through all the various options, but I will check with my counterparts at the county and just see where it is. Thank you. And then I I did forget. I I wanted to also thank the Southern Environmental Law Center

and Samantha Crump for being such big advocates for the creek and making sure that the developer that previously um essentially ran so much of the sediment into the creek and created the harms, actually addressed it. I just want to make sure that we're kind of getting ahead of that in any case that comes forward, and I appreciate the development offer on the 100-year storm. I know that we're this is a process. It's an ongoing process.

I've been here since 2017. I was on the Planning Commission um since 2014, and I've seen these cases getting increasingly better, but we're much more advanced than we were you know, 10 years ago. Um just knowing that what we put forward today um is only limited by our ability to navigate, and where I I think even Mr. Baker said, you

know, for Fendol Farms he would have done 4. something acre or per acre. I think in my mind, I want to be really clear that that is still too low of a density for that large of a area, and it's all what like to be just one is it's not beneficial. And so if you're going to make another borough like Oak Grove, then make a borough, and figure out how to make sure that the resources are in place because otherwise the burden falls on the taxpayers of the City of Durham to make sure that the roads are widened, that the creeks are repaired, that the you know, all of those things have become taxes for us in the city.

And we're still trying to create the the supports for homeless services. We're still trying to create the bus systems that we want um want to see in the core of the City of Durham, and that tension is why I end up on that no side more often than not. You know,

knowing that if we're going to keep sprawling, it's going to create more of a cost, and that cost is going to fall on the City of Durham. And so I'm not opposed to the developments that are occurring. I just want to make sure that they're giving us the best bang for our buck because eventually I got to pay for the road widening for the sites that, you know, the council approves. So, that's where I stand, and that's where I've been.

So, I that's all I wanted to say. Thank you. I want to thank my colleagues for for what I think is a really really substantive respectful conversation, and I I asked a question genuinely about sprawl, and I appreciate Council Member Bakers um making distinction between qualitative and quantitative nature. It's well it was a real question, and I think he he gave really real um respectful um answer, and I I thank my honorable colleague um for that. Um I I you know, I I still I guess struggle with if a daycare provider wants to open a daycare in an area where there's not a lot of people,

and hope that folk come out there. I mean I I governments don't open daycares. We don't open stores. People make businesses based upon market conditions and the existence of customers.

Um governments can create conditions for for folk to come out and do that, but we don't open those kind of things. So, I again, I I I'll be on the lookout for um amenities to go before people as opposed to people inviting um I shouldn't say amenities, but the businesses. Um I I do uh want to say with respect to because I don't I don't want I don't want it the impression to be created that somehow a vote of four stifles or or blocks negotiation with developers. For those of you that are students of these meetings, they're all archived. I invite you to go back and just randomly watch some of these meetings. We have voted on developments that looked very different at the end of our deliberation precisely because of

the agitation of of members who didn't vote in the four, but I've sat here and and I said, "Wow, I'm glad Council Member so-and-so did that. Got more affordable housing. Got larger um proffers to the the the public school fund. To our still didn't vote for it, but what the four did vote for looked a lot better because all seven of us worked together, and all seven of us agitated, and all seven of us leaned in.

So, I I want to give credit. I don't want to I don't want to create the impression that we we've been han han uh hampered or hindered in getting better projects even when my colleagues have not voted for it. I've had the the the the possibility and privilege of voting for better projects because of their insistence on certain things. I want to own that.

I think we should celebrate that, and I want to lean in. I don't want to feed into this narrative of this four or three, and folk aren't listened to. Projects have been better even when folk didn't vote for them because they engaged, and I

think we should celebrate that. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Thank you.

I appreciate Mayor Pro Tem's comment. I agree. And I did want to just ask one last question about the sampling dewatering dewatering effluent that I also heard as a question. And I'm not sure what the current standard is.

That is a new one for me. Um but I think if you already know. But um Sarah, I'm I'm looking at Sarah um Young. Is there currently sampling of the dewatering effluent?

I do not believe so, but let me double-check. I had the ordinance open. And I'm wondering if that's something that came up in that case

that could have kind of prevented the sediment from I don't see it. I do see uh there is a faster a slower dewatering time required for projects in the um in triassic soil. Um those are required to dewater in a minimum of four days. Okay.

So, a longer dewatering time to slow uh But that's not tested. It's not a requirement. If I could get the person that spoke about the dewater Miss Andrews. Can you explain what you're talking about?

Um cuz if we're only if we're slowing it down to four days, is that not enough? Okay. I'm going to go back to a photo I think is in here so I can explain it.

Okay. So, let's look at this pond in this photo. Well, those fill up with water particularly when we are having a hurricane, they would release that water so that they would be way present in the pond when the hurricanes came or rain. It doesn't have to be a hurricane.

It could be just a tropical storm, heavy rains, whatever. Currently, you only have to hold that water for four days. And at the end of that four days, that water can look just like that tomato soup, and it is allowed to be Released. >> you.

And so you're just releasing tomato soup right into the stream. You haven't Cuz that tomato soup, those particles guys clay, sand, silt, clay. Clay is the smallest. It's a thousandth of a millimeter.

It is the smallest. It takes days, weeks for that stuff to settle out. So, if it only has to sit there four days, it's not going to settle out. It will It will never happen. So, testing the effluent is when it comes

out that pipe, it goes down that hill, it's to test the effluent. That's one thing that the bags will do that's here. It collects. That is actually some water, and there was also dirt in there.

It's full of that red clay. If these dewatering bags actually worked properly, so that is something that came out. They had Mungo has to go above the UDO and actually do standards that have been recommended through this lawsuit. It's above what's in the current UDO.

And I just had one additional question. So, if there's so the sampling is going to be before it's let out. Yes. It would be done before it's let to go down the stream.

So, you can see in this picture with the guys here, those are pipes. If you look carefully, those are pipes that drain that pond. There were pumps that pumped it out, and all those drained right over that ridge into Lick Creek right beside there where they live. That goes right down the hill into Lick

Creek. Okay. Okay. That was taken by me.

Thank you. >> And that is what needs to be tested so we aren't releasing that heavy tomato soup into creeks. Thank you. That help?

Yes. And so Mr. I don't know if you even have a idea. I wouldn't I wouldn't say that that would be something you would be I would ask you to do but I would like to know if there's a cost.

Council member Freeman with all due I think we need to have these types of technical considerations referred to the working group that exists between the planning department and and the development community in order to evaluate what just what makes sense. Again, we're um taking a step out with this project committing to the 100-year storm during the construction phase. And uh we're just not able to

verify whether or not this would be this would it whether or not it's feasible, whether or not it'd make a difference. Um and so we're um happy to take it up. I'd I'd be happy to take it up with the working group that we have but I don't think I just >> doing these types of engineering conditions on the fly is a prudent exercise in terms of um I would agree. I was just trying to figure out if if there is a cost, if there is some way that even the city could cover the because I realize you know this is something that's not in our UDO, it's not a current regulation.

But to prevent the sediment from flowing from the site, if it's something that we could like if it's something we could cover, how do you figure that out? And I I can ask staff to follow up on that. It's not something it yeah, on the side. But I I didn't know if you knew of >> No. >> what that cost might look like. That was my That's way above way outside of my expertise council.

>> on I know a little bit about transportation and that's about it. And I hear I hear Mr. Biker talking about a a working group. Is there a current working group that might be able to take a look at this?

We do meet regularly with the Home Builders Association. We have several different groups that we meet with on a quarterly basis and here you know commentary and feedback. So I'm sure that Mr. Biker >> And I think just even just limiting it to hurricane season specifically would be helpful. It doesn't necessarily mean like it's all the time. It's not like something that has to be a regular occurrence but I do think that we are seeing this tomato soup if the four days is not enough if a hurricane has just come or even if it's just something that just kind of a heavy wind or you know like just being mindful that if there's a way to tailor the the recommendation or conversation that would be specifically to just prevent in

a hurricane having that sediment run straight out without testing it or whatever you have. Yeah, I'd also like to you know talk with the sedimentation erosion control staff particularly about how the use of flocculants which you know is a requirement now in Triassic basic soils how that offsets this or doesn't so get a better understanding from the experts on all the variables. Thank you. Thank you very much.

That's all. Just wanted to say thank you and Sorry. It's okay. You're fine.

Um You're fine. Just um also an analysis because it's being raised in Virginia and one of the things that we hear consistently is that it's our Triassic soils that are causing this and so um it I I thought that part of the issue was that this part of Durham was very very unique and so that some of the things like flocculants maybe weren't working or or things like that. What is the

um What whenever y'all meet as a working group really digging into what actually works because we took a lot of time and staff resources to pass ordinances and now we're hearing that that wasn't sufficient. And so um I don't want to go down that path if it's not going to if it just adds cost and doesn't actually do anything. Thank you. Yeah, if I could real quick just share that you know I've had conversations with Ryan Eaves about the effectiveness of the new regulations that were put in place not that long ago and one of the challenges is that and I use the analogy of you have two people standing at a sink.

I have a mug of coffee and Aaron has a carafe of water and we're both allowed to dump that down the sink. What color is the liquid going to be coming out of that pipe, right? I was here before the new rules went into effect so I get to dump my coffee but Aaron came afterwards and he can only dump water. But the water coming out of the pipe is still not going to be clear. It doesn't mean the new regs aren't working. It means we have so many projects that were

under the old regs that we can't yet determine the the the effectiveness of the new regulation. So that's just sharing a little bit of the challenge that we're in with development right now. Thank you. Colleagues, thank you.

So I think also Ms. Young if you would sorry if you come back. I think the issue also is that there's if we were going to measure effluent coming out of a dewatering pipe, right? There's no standard for what that should be, right?

In terms of like turbidity or whatever. We don't so we so I think there may be interested in sort of testing this out but I think the the question is like if there's no standard are we going to hold people accountable to something? So I think there's I think there's some science still that needs to be developed cuz I think we I mean I think we know on nutrient stuff in the lake we talk about phosphorus and nitrogen we know that but we don't know about turbidity. But there aren't standards as I understand. Not in an ordinance, correct. Thank you, colleagues.

Um I after listening to all of you all it wears me down and it keeps my comments short. Um I I appreciate all of the points made. Uh I I think honestly, you know, um Actually, someone text me and said Leo just shut up because every time you you talk about this people say you're dismissive or you are I you know, you're just in the pockets of the developers and I just want to push back and say, you know, we were elected to do a job and I have the utmost respect for everyone on this council and the opinions that you all bring. I don't agree with all of you. Um because I just you know, I have a different perspective. But I will say that you know, I am innocently ignorant in some things or many things.

And that just simply means I don't know everything. Um and I do believe that you know, innocent ignorance is the most valuable currency in political manipulation. And we are held to a standard in which we have to protect trust in the public domain. We have to protect honor because we have people in other offices beyond City Council that really don't give a dang about democracy or or how we engage with one another.

So at the least what we should do is you know, we debate. We we agree and disagree but it must be on the facts. But I hope that we do not tear away that fabric for political wins. So the way I approach this and the way I approach development as I've said before this is not a Sims

game. We don't just put things on a on a on a computer screen and say all right, I want this and I want that and I want that. I am a business owner. I'm the only payroll paying business owner every two weeks.

And I can tell you that it doesn't make any ounce of sense to just put a business anywhere just to say look we have that there. I you know, honestly, you know, if if I I think about home ownership. And I and I think about some of the things I hear and it would literally decrease home ownership. I think about the fact that I can't control when someone who owns land decides to sell their land to a developer and they build on that. I development happens it begins at a at a private enterprise.

And the City Council does not go and take people's land and just build on it whatever they want and then these guys come in here and do it for us. It just doesn't work that way. And I also think that we have to be a lot more honest about how we approach development as community members as well. I always think about you know, I go to I go to these let's take Manhattan or New York and I think about how people are living right up on each other.

And then you come to the South we're talking about 30 to 45 foot buffers. Well, how much housing could we put if we were not actually having so many buffers? Because we don't want folks too close. So we already have that.

And then I think about you know what I if we actually wanted to house people as much as we wanted to preserve trees. Trees are extremely important. We can see that with the aggressive

climate that we're experiencing. But we also have to be realistic. We back ourselves into corners and we think that the perfect development case or the perfect development situation is going to happen overnight. So we're just going to vote no on everything until it happens.

And we think the part the North Carolina Department of Transportation is going to widen a road that there is no one there. So we're going to have to bust at those seams in order to force them to do it. And the city's not going to have to pay for it. It's if it's a state-owned road, it's on them.

But I'm willing to I'm willing to partner with them to help it make to help it happen faster. That's what we're doing right here in downtown. But I'm just going to say on the record, I hope to own a home one day. And I hope people that own a home don't block me out. I appreciate you all actually building something for sale.

And adding an affordability adding an affordability component to it. And I don't know who the heck you are. So I'm not in your back pocket. But there are folks that are deteriorating the trust of this entire community.

And then when you say development is like a curse word. And the same people have the audacity to say I want taxes not to be too high. So we are sometimes not even approving fully 100% affordable developments. We don't want taxes too high.

But we're also anti-development in general. We need more housing at every income level. That is just fact. And you can't say oh look at the luxury apartments coming downtown.

We don't need any more housing. That's just disingenuous. So I challenge every elected official in this city and in this county to actually have an honest conversation about how

this really works. This is Durham. Durham was built Durham was built on the backs of small businesses. And I do not want to put us in a situation where we just exit all of them out and then have to wait on large development.

I'm sorry, large corporations to just take over cuz that's really what would happen. So I'm just simply saying let's just be honest about this. I do not know who's having a conversation right now about selling their land, cashing out, and selling it to a developer to go and build on it. I don't know, but I know in a few months we'll probably see another case where that actually happened. That's just what happens. And we walk in this community every day and we have to deal with folks

yelling and fussing at us the 4-3. Yelling and fussing at us about why y'all take this land and do XYZ. At least be honest about it. So I uh this this makes sense to me.

Um I I mean Briar Creek, one of the most dense commercial areas is literally less than 2 mi away. Okay, 2 mi. So I mean I I wouldn't expect you to put another Walmart or another Target right there or whatever commercial. It just doesn't make any sense.

Um it makes sense this case makes sense to me. Um I Yeah. And the next time the city staff the next time there's a lift station proposed somewhere, I hope we do a big education campaign around how you pay for that lift station. Because clearly that's what happened in

East Durham. So anyway, um I'll go ahead and um bring us to a close here. Mr. Mayor, if I may just confirm the two additional um commitments that we have, which is to increase the percentage of affordable units to 7%, which would be a total of eight units instead of six.

And >> 7% is correct. Okay. And uh doing receding within 7 days rather than 14. That is correct.

>> Okay, thank you. Thank you, staff. Do you have what you need? All right. At this time I will entertain a motion to adopt an ordinance annexing Hartland Park subdivision into the City of Durham and to authorize the city manager to enter into a utility extension agreement with Ardent Building LLC.

So moved. Second. It's been moved and properly seconded. Madam Clerk, please open the vote.

Mr. Mayor, the vote is 4 to 3 with council members Freeman, Baker, and Cook voting no. Thank you. 001 in Falls Jordan Watershed Protection Overlay District B, city jurisdiction.

So moved. Second. It's been moved and properly seconded. Madam Clerk, please open the vote. The vote is 4 to 3 with council member Baker, Cook, and Freeman voting no. Thank you.

And lastly, I'll entertain a motion to adopt a consistency statement as required by North Carolina General Statute Section 160D-605. Move to adopt consistency. Second. It's been moved and properly seconded.

Madam Clerk, please open the vote. Please close the vote. Motion passes 7-0. Thank you very much, colleagues.

We are complete with the agenda and adjourn. Thank you. One more Good job, council. >> to ask staff um specifically um I I just I just want to make sure that two there were two things um from the mayor's comments. The city the city may not be on the hook, but who covers when a state road is widening?

Is that not you do you not use tax >> road? No, state road. State road. The state does.

So I just want to make sure that it's clear that that's still taxes that's covering that. So typically a state-maintained road is paid for by the state. Um the state covers that. There There is a mechanism for local participation if the locality chooses to do so and it usually goes through a process called the SPOT process uh that is run by the Durham chap I'm sorry, got to get used to the new name, Triangle West Transportation Planning Office.

And then just uh just because I'm I I couldn't leave us with the small businesses um on the backs of small businesses. I want to be very clear that it could be workers in small businesses, but it's not just small businesses that the city's built on. That's all. We adjourn.

>> Mhm.