Durham Planning Commission · Regular Meeting · March 14, 2023

good evening welcome to the Durham Planning Commission the members of the Durham Planning Commission have been appointed by the city council and the County Board of Commissioners to make recommendations to the elected officials you should know that the elected officials have the final say on any issue before us tonight while this meeting is being conducted in person it is also accessible using the zoom virtual meeting platform in the virtual meeting platform public participants do not have the ability to be seen or talk on video by default to maintain meeting decorum and a discernible record of the meeting the chat function has been disabled for those attending in person if you plan to speak on an agenda item tonight please go to the table to my left and sign up to speak when speaking please state your name and your address clearly when you come to the podium and please speak directly into the microphone if you are attending the meeting virtually you will be given the ability to speak at the appropriate time

if you have pre-registered your name will be called for you to make your comments just like in an in-person public hearing you may also call in during the meeting tonight by dialing 1-301-715-8592 if you call in during the meeting you will need to wait until the particular public hearing you are interested in starts after all the pre-registered speakers have shared their comments I will ask if there is anyone else wishing to speak at that point you will need to digitally raise your hand by pressing star 9 on your phone and when recognized state your name and address before making your comments finally all motions are stated in the affirmative so if emotion fails or ties the recommendation is for denial thank you and may we have roll call good evening chair mandolia here Vice chair Cameron here commissioner Baker here commissioner Cartwright here Mr shagaris here commissioner Davis here commissioner

MacGyver here commissioner Morgan here commissioner cease here commissioner Trapp not here commissioner Valentine here commissioner Carmen Williams here commissioner Zuri Williams not present let the record reflect that we have quorum I have one announcement just a reminder for anyone listening from a remote location and for those in attendance we want to remind everyone that the public hearing for the new comprehensive plan will resume on March 28 2023 as discussed at our last meeting with that we're going to move to our next agenda item which is approval of the minutes and consistency statements from February 28 2023 if you have any questions adjustments to

those minutes may I get a motion move to approve the minutes second moved by Vice chair Cameron seconded by commissioner Baker all those in favor please stay aye aye aye all opposed have the same right motion passage unanimously okay we have um a text Amendment on our agenda tonight that is case tc22 quadruple zero six pet waste receptacles I'm hoping that this is going to be an easy breezy item and we have planning staff in attendance who are here only for that item so with consent I would like to move that item to be the first item on our agenda and we can go ahead and hold the public hearing for that hearing no objections we will make that adjustment to the agenda and we will begin with that public hearing but the record reflect that commissioner trap has arrived

great so with case tc22 quadruple zero six pet waste receptacles we will begin with the staff report and staff would like to State for the record that all public hearing items have been noticed in accordance with state and local law and affidavits of these notices are available in the planning department good evening everyone my name is Jessica Dockery I'm the planning manager with the planning department I'm going to wait just a moment for my presentation to come up but as a quick summary this evening I'm presenting the information about a proposed unified development ordinance text Amendment case tc220006 pet waste receptacle which was initiated by staff from several City departments working on the Implement implementation of a total maximum daily load or tmdl response plan completed in 2019.

as development continues in Durham runoff from impervious surface washes pollutants such as pet waste which causes bacterial contamination from fecal coliform bacteria and sediment which causes turbidity in water bodies these pollutants end up in the drinking water supply so tmdls have been established to ensure safe levels when tmdls are exceeded plans to reduce these are necessary Durham County bodies of water of particular concern or Northeast Creek and third Fort Creek Northeast Creek is impaired due to excessive fecal coliform bacteria in the digestive systems of warm-blooded animals including pets foreign third Fork Creek is impaired by high levels of turbidity cause which causes Primera which is caused primarily by

erosion in streams and due to Earth moving activities as you can imagine given all of our development there's a lot of Earth moving activities that is adding to this problem the city of Durham completed a tmdl response plan in 2019 that focuses specifically on tmdls and third fork and Northeast creeks however tmdls affect the many water bodies throughout the county the proposed requirements for pet waste receptacles will assist with implementation of the Northeast Creek Watershed Improvement plan efforts to address fecal coliform bacteria while also protecting other watersheds from similar bacterial contamination the primary sections of the Udo that will be affected by this text Amendment are article 7 and 9. article 7 includes design standards for open space and residential developments as well as standards for utility and solid waste collection facilities and all developments these standards will be revised to

require pet waste receptacles at the trailheads of all Greenways and trails for new development the solid waste collection facilities section in this article will be the most significantly altered to require pet waste receptacles to be installed in residential developments in an effort to lower the amount of fecal coliform bacteria and runoff and there's going to be the full language of that section that I just referred to on the next slide article 9 includes standards for landscaping and buffering including screening requirements for solid waste collection facilities pet waste receptacles will be exempt for this screening requirement and here on this last slide you can see the most extensive change to the Udo that waste receptacles will need to be placed on Homeowner Association owned land in open space areas or public space at least two receptacles shall be provided for developments with 90 or fewer dwelling units and for developments with 91 or more units at

least three shall be provided the receptacles will be maintained and emptied by the HOA per open space maintenance agreements established in HOA agreements which must be recorded for site plan approval thank you and staff is available if there are any questions thank you at this time we will open the public hearing we will give anyone who has signed up to speak the opportunity to nobody has signed up to speak um if there is anyone who is attending in-person or in the zoo meeting who would like to speak on this item please raise your hand or come to the podium at this time see no one coming to the podium in person one person has raised their hand on the zoom meeting Mimi Kessler Mimi will have two minutes to provide your comments thank you can you hear me okay yes um

so I'm interested in because I live in a in an older section of Durham we don't have an HOA and in fact our neighborhood association is concerned that we don't have enough pet waste receptacles in the general area not so much related to head trails and whatnot and there's not it's not a uh you know a gate for Planned development so um I noticed that that it says that if there's an HOA then the HOA is responsible for emptying it but what if we don't have an HOA uh who who's expected to empty it thank you thank you okay seeing no one else wanting to speak on this item if you'd like to speak um you need to come to the podium sir I need you to come if you're wanting to speak on this agenda item I need you to

come to the podium sorry about that no I'll come in here for the rezone and uh property on Hoover Road yes we have adjusted we adjusted the agenda to do the text Amendment first we're doing that now and Hoover Road that is our last our last resort in case of the night and so we will get to it later on I don't have a good sense of win because it depends on how quickly the other cases go oh gosh thank you okay seeing no one out switching to speak on this item at this time first I'm going to go ahead and just turn it straight to staff to respond to that question from Mimi yes this is Jessica Dockery again so this is for new developments going forward there is no uh mechanism to require those pet waste receptacles in previously approved

subdivisions and we typically require HOA agreements as part of our new developments so we don't we don't have a way to make other developments come up to that unless they make an amendment of some sort thank you okay at this time I'm going to turn it over to commissioner question and comment if anyone have questions or comments on this case the only comment I will make and I made the same comment at jccpc is just to remind folks that while this is seems menial and kind of like way too detailed just to remind folks that pet waste impacts our water quality and so this is why we do stuff like this it's important for keeping our water supply safe and um

please deal with your pet waste it's not just a nuisance for people walking on a park it actually impacts the water supply that we have with that I'm going to close the public hearing and I would take a motion at this time Mr chair I make a motion that we take text Amendment tc22 quadruple zero six the pet waste receptacles to be forward to the city council and County Commissioners with a favorable recommendation second moved by commissioner Morgan seconded by commissioner Trapp is there any discussion on the motion seeing none may we have the roll call vote chairman Julia yes Vice chair Cameron yes commissioner Baker yes commissioner cut right yes Mr shagaris yes commissioner Davis yes commissioner MacGyver yes commissioner Morgan yes commissioner sees yes commissioner Trapp yes commissioner

Carmen Williams yes the motion carries 12-0 thank you great moving on to our zoning map changes for the night we will begin with case z22 triple zero 28 South Point mall we will begin with the staff report just waiting on the presentation and I'll start evening Commissioners and those in attendance I'm Andy Lester with the planning department this case is e2200028 streets at South Point two for proposed zoning map change the properties are located at 6910-6920 6930 6940 6950 and 69 60 Fayetteville Road

32 million square feet of residential floor space this is a rezoning with a graphic development plan associated with The Proposal the existing future land use map designates this place as commercial the proposed commercial center with a development plan is consistent with the commercial Flume designation lastly this project is located in the forest Jordan District B Watershed protection overlay and the major transportation Corridor overlay existing zoning is commercial center

with a development plan in Residence rural the site is surrounded by commercial General to the South residential suburban multifamily and mixed use to the West across I-40 to the north are commercial centers office and PDR zoning districts across Fayetteville Road to the east our mixed-use commercial General and office districts and area map shows the general location of the project it is located in the southwest quadrant of Fayetteville Road and I-40 interchange to the South are car dealerships to the East are apartments in an undeveloped portion of Renaissance Village across I-40 to the North or Homestead market shopping center and Audubon Lake apartments across Fayetteville Road to the east our Renaissance Center at South Point Shopping Center in the Duke Health Center at South Point and as stated previously a development plan is included in the proposal seven site access points are proposed by

private private driveway connection four access points are shown along Renaissance Parkway and three access points are along Fayetteville Road their current proposal designates three areas with different maximum height Limits The yellow section fronting Fayetteville Road will be limited to a total height of 50 feet the orange section encompassing the main mall and fronting Renaissance Parkway would be limited to a total height of 120 feet the blue portion adjacent to I-40 would have a maximum height of 145 feet no streams steep slopes or wetlands are identified on the site as the site is within the Watershed protection overlay The Proposal provides the required maximum 75 70 percent impervious surface area and before discussing the graphic and text commitments staff elected daylight and apologize for an error in the staff report the maximum office area listed in

445 million square feet is proposed a maximum Hotel units of 200 200 rooms are included a maximum number of apartment units which is 1 382 units other commitments include the parts of land located south of Renaissance Parkway will not contain any building or parking area all residential buildings shall be between 4 and 10 stories dedication of the combined 100 foot MTC buffer and the triangle Bikeway easement from existing um American Tobacco Trail easement to Fayetteville Road right-of-way traffic improvements include a bus pull out with bus landing pad and two bus shelters along the west side of Fayetteville Road and Herndon including

modifications to the traffic signal and intersection lineage a bus shelter with amenities on concrete pad and sidewalk connections between the existing sidewalk and the proposed bus shelter for an eastbound stop on the south side of Renaissance Parkway a bus pull out with bus landing pad and two bus shelters along the north side of Renaissance Parkway to serve the westbound transit services additional commitments include an additional southbound left turn lane on the Central Mall driveway with traffic signal modification and a new Loop Road as a write-in Rideout access with one egress Lane and one egress Lane some design commitments include pitched Gable or flat roofs with parapets with adjusted Heights a neighborhood meeting was held in accordance with UDA requirements on May 3rd 2022 one Community member was in attendance 10 survey responses and two comments were provided on social pinpoint

opponents any undecided or neutral commenters had concerns of increased traffic along Fayetteville Road and packs of schools and lack of affordable housing proponents were encouraged by the greater mix of uses and increased residential density staff determined that the perusal is consistent with the comprehensive plan and other adopted plans and policies The Proposal increases the supply of housing stock available to Durham residences and provides commercial office and hotel uses Transportation has raised concerns with the construction of the newly proposed side xs2 to Renaissance Parkway relative to the location of the proposed relocated bus stop as part of the plan and the proposal is consistent with the commercial land use map designation thank you staff the applicant are here to answer any questions thank you it's time we will open the public hearing we'll begin with the applicant

presentation you'll have 10 minutes to provide your your application foreign good evening chairman Amendola Vice chair Cameron members of the Planning Commission my name is Patrick biker I live at 2614 Stewart Drive I'm an attorney with Morning Star Law Group and I'm here tonight representing South Point Mall joining me tonight from Southpoint our general manager Pat Anderson along with senior vice presidents Jason Binet and Ben Freeman also here are Bill Dirks our civil engineer with McAdams and I want to go through this PowerPoint and and try to get through that in only six or seven minutes so we leave as much time for questions as possible it's important to emphasize that right now at Southpoint mall there is one bus stop serving the entirety of South Point Mall what we

propose moving forward and these are touch commitments on our plan is to increase that to three bus stops one on each side of Renaissance Parkway and one on Fayetteville Street at the North End of South Point in order to serve go triangle Riders it's very important to note that South Point is also working to facilitate increase in park and ride Demand right now currently about 50 to 60 people utilize Park and Ride spaces at South Point our plan calls for 147 parking spaces to be provided which is more than double the current demand in addition to that there will be pedestrian connectivity to connect these bus stops to the mall and to the new development that'll be taking place and so it's important to recognize that Southpoint is in fact our our Region's number one generator of the transit sales tax that we approved as a community about 10 years ago to go to dive into that this in a little

more detail we're looking to expand public transportation options here again increase to three bus stops we're only one ex exists today and it's important to note that there will be two bus pull-offs and two bus Shelt and two shelters for go triangle and Fayetteville Road that will allow the go triangle route 800 to uh dive off of I-40 pick up people here at Southpoint and then continue on I-40 to its main destination which is UNC Medical Center and then there'll be three bus pull-offs and two shelters for go Durham along Renaissance Parkway and so that new bus configuration bus stop and bus shelter configurable configuration will allow for greater operating efficiency decrease commute times decrease vehicle Reliance emissions and traffic and again I want to emphasize the closer proximity to I-40 is something we've worked on with go triangle over the past couple of years of course the overall thrust of this zoning map amendment is to transform

20-year-old surface parking lots into multi-family housing hotels retail restaurants and employment spaces of course this will require enormous amounts of structured parking on account of this investment in structured parking and because Southpoint is not in a qualified census tract uh that boosts the effectiveness of a low-income housing tax credit our team is pursuing an affordable housing profit to build affordable housing where is far more efficient and faster to do it than at South Point Mall our team is waiting for the city and county deliberations about allocating American Rescue plan funds arpa funds to more or less shovel-ready affordable housing projects in Durham when that process is done we hope Southpoint will be able to pursue a partnership with a pre-approved affordable housing project to bring more affordable housing to those who need it right now not in 2025 or 2026. to a certain extent We are following the example that this Planning Commission unanimously recommended approval for relating to a development agreement along Durham Chapel Hill Boulevard that

3 million square foot Regional Super Regional shopping center and it attracts 13 million visitors per year it is the largest sales and property tax generator in Durham and it has a 97 occupancy rate uh 100 with the addition of pop-up stores these 140 retail shops are always fully leased however the worst thing you can do in any profession is rest on your laurels and so this development uh we want to recognize Southpoint isn't facing increased competitive pressure from Raleigh and carry developments and we need to move forward in order to maintain southpoint's Competitive Edge

3 million of retail square footage that's there today we're looking at 100 000 more square feet of retail and we certainly want to work on attracting another four or five uh top quality restaurants again we'll be adding two

new bus stops with additional sidewalk connectivity and we're looking to add 1 382 residential units up to 300 000 square feet of office and up to 200 hotel rooms it's important to recognize that we as a team have focused very much on pedestrian bicycle and Transit connectivity and so part of this development plan calls for multiple connections to the American Tobacco Trail and there will be the dedication of southpoint's property along Interstate 40 to allow the city and other Regional Partners to go forward with the new proposed triangle Bikeway when that has funding and is ready to move forward again we want to emphasize increased pedestrian and vehicular safety of course traffic is an important consideration and so I want to stress for the Planning Commission that our Tia was reviewed by the city and ncdot is somewhat surprising that current traffic counts around Southpoint mall are still slightly below pre-pandemic levels it's also important to know that

Renaissance Parkway currently carries about 15 000 cars per day which means that the road is operating at approximately 45 percent of its capacity slightly under half in addition to that it's our understanding that the city has funded the traffic signal at Leonardo and Renaissance so that will improve safety for the Western end of Renaissance Parkway as well Renaissance Parkway as well and of course we want to emphasize pedestrian safety so that there'll be new sidewalks within the state within the site to create improved walkability especially looking at gov Triangle Park and Ride spaces and then there'll be safer connections to and from the mall with the addition of pedestrian signals and two high visibility crosswalks and lastly I want to emphasize there will be sidewalk extensions along Fayetteville Road in closing I'd like to address the economic impact I want to credit hundon strategic Partners which was our third party consultant evaluating this it's very important to recognize that Southpoint generates 27 million dollars in sales taxes for Durham

9 Million Dollars in property taxes I want to emphasize that South one is by far the largest generator of sales taxes and property taxes for all of us in Durham County and it's very important for homeowners and Durham especially those who are living on a fixed income accordingly we respectfully ask for your approval tonight our team will be happy answering your questions and we thank you very much for your time thank you with that we will open it up to public comments thank you okay we have three people who have signed up to speak in person I'm a pair of folks sorry two other folks that have signed

up to speak in person and if other people want to speak and the zoom meeting please start raising your hand at this time we have mad bankson and Wendell Bullard shawwood come to the podium state your name and address and then you'll have two minutes to provide comments hi I'm Matt bankson I live at 910 Arnett Avenue hi again I'm Matt bankson I'm here to speak against expanding the presence of Brookfield Asset Management in our Durham community a little about me I hold a master's in city and Regional planning from UNC I'm also a resident of Durham where I've worked with tenants and research housing related issues for several years I'm currently with the nonprofit organization private Equity stakeholder project where I conduct research and campaign to mitigate the harmful effects of private equity in the housing system

I'm here with some Vital Information about Brookfield Asset Management the owner of this site Brookfield itself is a major owner in multi-family housing however I want to talk today about Ginkgo residential trusts which Brookfield acquired in 2013. Ginkgo residential is a real estate investment company with a geographic focus in North Carolina they have three multi-family complexes in Durham County according to data from the sheriff analyzed by dataworks North Carolina Ginkgo filed 393 evictions at these three complexes that's some rejectments and Ritz of possession between February 2021 and February 2023 this makes Ginkgo and by extension Brookfield Durham County's fourth highest victory during this time period it should be noted that the federal eviction moratorium was in place through late August 2021 during which Ginkgo continued to evict tenants it's hard to overstate how devastating this tenant mistreatment is for our community as I'm sure many of you know

while Ginkgo is one subsidiary of Brookfield the mega private Equity Firm does have sway over its operations as such I feel extremely concerned about the possibility of allowing this company to expand its operations in Durham I understand that our city is in need of more housing but I was also really concerned to see a lot of vagueness around what we're talking about with affordability here I actually would appreciate clarification around that um therm doesn't need any more unaffordable housing this site needs affordable housing poor people in Durham are moving further and further outside of the city to places like South Point we have plenty of unaffordable housing here please correct me if there's something I need to know that I'm missing I ask that the commission recommend that this rezoning not be considered until affordability conditions are added and that a large percentage of the proposed units are affordable to very low income people making 30 to 50 percent of the area median income I'm also calling on Brookfield to publicly agree to stop its abusive Behavior towards low-income renters in our community in exchange for

S Air Force I've been a licensed real estate broker since 1994 and I currently own bullet Properties LLC that specializes in commercial residential and Land Development with almost 30 30 years in real estate and as a Durham resident I get to see Durham's growth you have already heard some data on the revenues generated by Southpoint in the mall but the economic impact of Southpoint has had a durable impact on Durham extends far beyond that

sophomore the model is a destination Center and it spread a lot of Economic Opportunity was built myself and my business partner in 2004 formed South Realty Executives triangle Southpoint so you can see the last name Southpoint was a play off of this location as we did residential and Commercial Real Estate so we knew keenly what this would have with respect to the community as a realtor I know many Realtors who work with families acquiring homes and property in Southwest Durham because of this location and its footprint my own daughter worked at AMC Theater when it opened when she was in high school in 2002. I was happy for that it's a destination for many of us on a regular basis including myself weekly not only for shopping but the restaurants and all the amenities it has to offer and then was a real estate professional I am proud to stand in support of this rezoning as a popularity of indoor malls phase the ownership here is making smart

moves to plant the future with the what will become of the indoor mall a vibrant mixed use retail office hotels residential and a vertically integrated walkable format they have reimagined the existing use of sponsors of parking as a tightly woven mixtures development something during reserves I hope you support it thank you thank you okay I see no one else wishing to speak in person at this time so we're going to go to our Zoom attendees first we have Trisha smarr tricio up two minutes to provide your comments thank you um yes good evening this is Trisha smart I'm at 513 Valley Meat Drive in Durham basically that's between South Point mall and Lyons Farm Elementary um given the fact that this development will directly impact not only road traffic but also put in bike traffic in the area could the commission ask or require that the developer commit to improving bike pedestrian infrastructure in the area beyond the direct footprint of their property for instance there's a

gap in the sidewalks between the American Tobacco Trail and lions Farm Elementary which is the school to which the children in these new apartments will be districted I've actually been working with several neighborhoods Durham Transportation and ncdot to help build a gap and have a project estimate of about 620 000 that would help complete the ATT Alliance Farm connectivity with sidewalks now if that price pack is too steep for the developers there are grants that would cover 80 but they still require a 20 match which would be about 124 000. um plus such a connection would directly benefit the children and families of the development by providing accessible bike and pedestrian access from their homes to their Elementary School and also aligns with Durham's Vision zero and safe routes to school's principles to improve safe like pedestrian access across Durham especially to the schools the burden of insurance and safety for residents should not fall solely on the city county or us as residents the developers that are bringing more people to the area should bear a greater responsibility for connecting residents

new and old across the communities that they're impacting so my question is could we require uh the developers to make a tax commitment of 124 000 to this project as part of this rezoning process as a means of alleviating some of the added congestion their project will cause this area thank you next we have Mimi Kessler maybe you have two minutes to provide your comments hi I'm Amy Kessler I live at 1418 Woodland Drive in Durham and I'm having a little trouble picturing that this and I'm wondering if they could go back to one of the maps maybe maybe um the one with the yellow and the tan and the blue and explain again like where where did they imagine the apartment uh building to be where they imagine the hotel to be um and I'm I'm interested in the park

and ride thing I didn't realize that there was any of that going on so I'm really happy to hear that and I'm wondering whether they could consider having a multi-level um parking facility to increase the capacity for Park and rides um in general I think this sounds like a really good plan um and um I really wish that the Mr biker would have the people who own on Northgate um look at this as a inspiration thank you thank you Mimi I'm not seeing anyone else wanting to speak on this case at this time Mr Becker you had a minute and 39 seconds left of your time if you would like to say anything else just our team's happy to answer any questions so we appreciate your time tonight and again it's uh very important

to move forward with Southpoint well again while it's in a position of strength it would be a different uh Miss Kessler referred to Northgate you know we didn't want to come to the Planning Commission when South Point was 30 percent vacant we wanted to come here well we can put forward a plan that we know is viable and can move forward and we'll again make an investment in transit and pedestrian infrastructure that will benefit our region and especially Durham thank you thank you thank you before you take a seat and before we get into questions the first thing I wanted to go ahead and clarify you mentioned a profer related to affordable housing we don't have a partner to identified yet we're waiting for the city and the county to allocate arpa funds America American Recovery plan that process is ongoing should be done in the next several weeks once that process has played itself out we'll be able to identify where there's a civil

ready project that we can step in and provide the necessary Gap financing so are you making a profit not at this time sir just telling you what our intent is we'll make that process report it out between now and city council is that once that's sorted out between now and city council to add that as a proper yes sir okay okay thank you questions and comments from commissioners commissioner Morgan yeah I have a question for the applicant as well one of the things I've noticed with some of these developments is to try to create more of a community like a grocery store or drugstore or things like that I see that in sort of North Hills and some of the other areas when I lived in Charlotte and it seems like is the applicant interested in making a profit or commitment to try to attracting sort of a grocery store or place where you know I'm thinking with all these units you're adding it would be great to have a place where people could just walk to the store versus get

in their car and it would cut down on a lot of vehicle traffic at this time to at a high level we're not able to to recruit a full-service grocery store it would simply require too much surface parking and the vision of this project is to go with structured parking and I would emphasize that the the Target down the road is uh does have a grocery selection having said that obviously some of the retail would be able to provide those amenities for for new residents in the area yeah I would just think that would be a good place especially with some of the the residents that might be moving in that might be great to kind of cut down on vehicle traffic right okay um I had another question but I I forgot it so that happens to me too it's when you get old Vice chair Cameron um just a question you have 300 000

square feet of office what kind of office who's going to go there that is a [Laughter] in today's climate keep Vice chair Cameron that's a very interesting discussion point we have had interest from health care providers so it could be Health Care related office but that's to be determined I think the traditional traditional office Market is is uh very weak and not coming back anytime soon we you know we to be honest with the first neighborhood meeting we had was before the pandemic and so that's when we were focusing on what the types of uses would be and that's actually where the 300 000 square foot number came from was discussions we had which must have been one was at 2019. so uh that's a number that was um incorporated into the rezoning request I think it's much more likely that we'll

move forward with hotel hotel uses at South Point then traditional office uses but again we have had interest expressed from Health Care office users the other thing I just want to say is that I'm in support of this development this is a trend where we're increasing density including housing and hotels and other types of uses around retail the target is probably a 10-15 minute walk up the road with the sidewalks for grocery shopping and this type of development also supports the 15-minute communities neighborhoods that we're talking about in the city of Durham so I think it's a good exciting idea to um change South Point around thank you commissioner Baker I think the um the proposition of taking an aging mall and redeveloping it into a mixed-use Activity Center is really good

and really important it's something that has been a long time coming it's something that a lot of communities are doing and something that Durham needs to do um we also talk a lot about housing but we often talk about it in terms of sort of supply and um treating it sort of like boxes of cereal rather than something that's integrated in the fabric of the community and thinking about housing in the context of neighborhoods and I know just talking with people anecdotally and I think I think it plays out in the data is that a lot of people are looking for places where they can live where they can get to places and walk to places and I think that that's that's really important that we're creating a higher supply of those kinds of uh neighborhoods so you walked through the affordability very quickly so I want to come back to that how many units so there's gonna be a thousand up to 1 382 Apartments

permitted on the site through through this rezoning I'm sorry what percentage of those would would be affordable there won't be any affordable on-site commission no affordable on site would be looking to a affordable housing project that's in a qualified census tract therefore it would be much lower Gap financing per unit and therefore be a much more greater bang for the book in order to develop affordable housing in in those venues okay none absolutely none on the site that's correct so none not in my backyard um and what kinds of Green Building elements are you planning for the site don't believe we have any identified at this point in time it's again it's a phase development we'll have to see what the demand dictates in terms of whether a hotel would be the first phase or residential or what have you okay a couple questions for staff

um so there's a very large site I'm curious and if you're not able to answer the question don't don't worry about it I can I can turn the question of the applicant but I'd like to hear from you are we looking at this is a very large style are we looking at some sort of internal multimodal Street Network do we know is there going to be like dedication of streets are we creating blocks thank you all right Arlene Thomas Transportation so no their their access points are private driveways it'll be private okay and is this not subject to the uh City's connectivity index Street connectivity index no early in Thomas transportation again um so no because there are no streets so it wouldn't be subject to that section of the ordinance okay

all right so no no internal public Street Network um no internal network of alleys I'll ask the applicant um are there any is there any tension of dedicating public spaces creating plazas Parks rooftop Parks those kinds of places there'll definitely be plazas and Parks but they'll be privately maintained but obviously private Public's welcome to enjoy the space it's it's similar to the if you look at the slide right there it's right outside of the theater and it's a great venue for people take their uh children to play and anybody's welcome to do it okay okay um I might have some comments later but I'm going to turn things back and let other Commissioners ask questions commissioner cease uh one quick question for staff and then

I'm sorry for the applicant and then a couple questions for staff I believe I heard a one of the public comments referencing vertical integration there's there's I didn't hear that in your presentation I don't see anything is there any commitment to vertical integration of uses do you want to commit should we I mean that's certainly our vision to have a a portion of the site B uh retail ground floor and residential above so we could um we'd have to Wordsmith that commissioner cease but there's certainly a a portion of the development that would be ground floor retail with a few floors of residential above it well for all correct about that yeah so I mean thanks for all the emphasis on um pedestrian connectivity and pedestrian access and the experience of places public places whether they're public or private which is a valid question that commissioner Baker raised

um but you know the vertical integration plays a role in that too but to the point of wordsmithing maybe we'll come back to that so um questions for staff Transportation questions if you could the application and I appreciate um the initial presentation that referenced the uh discrepancy in the commercial square footage but the application is for 300 000 square feet of office right yes correct but the Tia references a hundred thousand so the Tia different mix of use in square footage so what happens is they get approved for a a certain number of trips that can be added to the railway Network and that's their threshold that they can't exceed so they could mix and match the square footage intensity of those uses but they

T as we consider these things and those are all subject to changes we know um and rightfully so but I'm just wondering what mechanism would occur for that to change how could they build 200 000 square feet of office if that was ever so one important thing to note is the tax commitment is for a maximum of right at 300. so they could be less than that but the ordinance states that they can't exceed the Tia trip budget by more than three percent without requiring a re rezoning trip budget by how what percentage I they cannot go over three

percent of them budget um similar question there's a reference to the internal trip capture rate and also Transit I'm wondering what those percentages were what modal split was there I don't have that right in front of me it's in the full um Tia I mean I don't know if the applicant would have that with them but there are allowable reductions um per The Institute of Transportation Engineers that can be taken for different moods um Transit being one of those and I don't recall if for conservative analysis if they did a Transit reduction or not I'd have to refer back but internal capture between uses takes trips off of the roadway and keeps them on the site maybe if if so you have access to the full report just not readily in front of you right if I think those are important numbers I'd like to at some point come back to that thank you thanks

commissioner Valentine yes I have a question for the applicant so you had mentioned that before the pandemic that there seemed to be a lot of neighborhood involvement and that was dating back to 2019. we had neighborhood meetings meetings okay we had neighborhood means pre-pandemic that is correct okay but the neighborhood meeting that's mentioned here on May 3rd 2022 notes that there was only one member of the community so generally the involvement in neighborhoods or communities increases over time was there a notice requirement that was no as a matter of fact we uh reached out to all the folks that we could think of commissioner Valentine um most of the people who showed up seemed very supportive of the of the proposal without that we put full so you're speaking you're speaking of the one person who showed up oh no I'm talking about the meetings that we've had since 2019. oh okay okay

75 parking spaces per unit uh whenever a tax credit is issued by the North Carolina Housing Finance

Agency so in a structured parking environment if you figure twenty five thousand dollars of space ballpark forty thousand dollars has to be provided in parking uh structured parking and that's uh significant significant if you're not a qualified census track the financing Gap per unit under current conditions with interest rates and building costs it's approximately sixty five thousand dollars a unit whereas if you're in a qualified census tract it's around forty thousand dollars a unit and so you put all those factors together and it is um remarkably inefficient to try to build affordable housing that's not in a qualified census tract and has to rely on structured parking and so it really is a question of efficiency and speed to Market as opposed to what would cost a great deal and be slow to Market and so that's the

analysis that our team undertook and we certainly evaluated if it would be if it would be financially feasible possible to uh undertake affordable housing on site and when we looked at it it was certainly uh it certainly was not and it made just makes more sense when we've got projects that are shovel ready today and be able to get one of those over the finish line so they can actually break ground and provide housing in in the next several months rather than wait a few years so I just have one follow-up but probably more of a statement I'm concerned about projects that come to us where the developer is not going to provide a good faith effort not to say that you did not regarding this project but developers not making a good faith effort at an attempt at the affordable housing as a integral

component of their projects I'm very concerned about that I appreciate that commissioner cut right to beat a dead horse I think one thing we just wanted to clarify here is what you looked at is a lie Tech project right primarily so I think that's an important clarification here and I understand all the financial aspects and components in terms of Gap financing and making that work from a Live tech deal have you looked at providing just 80 to 100 Ami deals that don't necessarily have to be lie take deals where we can get firefighters and teachers to be able to utilize all the amenities that will be on this site I ask that understanding that there's a that's an important distinction here and so one is a potentially a real constraint the other is one that can be

navigated through your own Financial models and doesn't have the same constraints from a financing qualified census track any of those standpoints um so just like to hear some thoughts on that we did evaluate 80 percent or Sony Ami units and it was not financially possible given the financial underrating standards of our financing partner so we certainly evaluated that very carefully and looked at what percentages what number could fit and it was not feasible given the given the parking requirements just in general regardless of what the North Carolina Housing Finance Agency requires obviously you have to have provide some parking um and and that was it's just simply not uh something that our financing uh Financial Financial partner um was able to was able to approve thanks commissioner Carmen Williams

thank you chair and mendolia I just wanted to make sure that I'm understanding things um correctly so we have a parking requirement that we can't meet but we use in parking spaces in order to build but we're also increasing Transportation via city transportation to this space which would eliminate the need for parking spaces because we're hoping people are going to take the bus correct I think it's a mix of all those factors uh commissioner Williams there's no doubt that we want to encourage people to use Transit and providing additional stops for to make it as convenient as possible but obviously the reality is people will be using vehicles for the foreseeable future okay and there's no option for the possibility of charging stations to increase the ability for people who will be living in this area to reduce their impact on the environment as well and since the office space is probably isn't a good idea since the majority of the commercial spaces in the triangle

area are empty Durham could definitely use another event center but I'm just over here I will certainly evaluate incorporating charging stations we think that's a great idea thank you commissioner Davis so is this a build it and they'll come type a deal for the hotels or because I mean there's already two there at South Point so what I mean are those hotels just packed or are we hoping to we've had I've had certainly several calls commissioner Davis from Hotel operators interested in locating here so that that I think following up on Vice chair Cameron's point about office space I would say hotel is is much more robust than a traditional office having said that I I my educated guess

is that it'll be a subsequent phase not the initial phase of this development but I I can assure you we've had interest from uh Hotel operators and this would be a a strong site for Hospitality okay Hilton and Marriott both operate the two that are there at South Point I mean which I mean would it be I I don't know sir I mean what what operator would be it's there's so many different operators it's I honestly don't even remember exactly who it was I just know I've had phone calls from uh uh very well qualified Hotel operators to to locate here and that would be a I think a benefit for the area commissioner Morgan I remember my question I was going to lose it if I didn't if I didn't keep it I should have written it down no uh the residential housing is it

all going to be leased out versus owner occupied that's correct yeah so we do not Envision having any Condominiums no no permanent resident or no it would not be condominiumized okay that's our perspective on at this point in time okay thank you yes sir foreign Thomas Transportation so I have the information that commissioner sees requested for internal capture there was about four percent in the AM and 14 reduction in the PM the pass by trips were capped at 10 percent in the PM and Transit reductions were seven percent in AM and PM thank you you're welcome commissioner shigeris yes I have a question for the applicant so the proposed buildings are going to be built

where there's current parking correct yes ma'am so that's going to reduce the overall footprint of the parking right there'll be structured parking and then most of the development will be on top of the structured parking structured parking as in a parking deck correct okay so that's where the extra people are going to park so I know the Lots empty a lot except for like at Christmas time and then there's no room to park anywhere and that's a good thing thank you any other questions or comments commissioner cease thank you um well first of all I appreciate the uh and the the interest that the owners are pursuing here and attempting to repurpose and looking for ways to repurpose the surface parking lots and I very much appreciate the points that you raised Patrick about the uh the emphasis on pedestrian connectivity on the

character of the public spaces and as well recognizing the uh uncertainties that need to be accommodated in whatever the applicant is asking for and and the timelines associated with build out of of this number of units this amount of square footage um one thing that we haven't explicitly addressed or maybe it did come up just in passing is the relationship to the American Tobacco Trail so for all the discussion of the value which in economic terms of South Point and what it pumps into our economy both directly and indirectly it's all very relevant but I think it could arguably make the case as well that the biggest public amenity we have amenity that we have in in the communities American backup Trail yeah and it really impacts a lot of different constituencies different citizens in different ways and and it

connects a lot of people um [Music] I want to make a linkage here between the emphasis that you've placed on transit viability or access and improvements the seven percent modal capture which is not insignificant that's a pretty big number compared to a lot of projects but that and and the frontage along the American Tobacco Trail for for this to all function well the design of these spaces is is essential and what's presented to us in this application package gives zero information on design other than Building height differential maybe zero is too harsh there's some indications of pedestrian connections that those are those are kind of insignificant in the grand scheme of 1300 units 300 000 square feet of commercial or I'm sorry office in another 100 000 square feet of commercial so I where I'm going with this is I

think it's essential to have more information and more clarity around what the relationship is between the proposed development and those points of connection and especially along the quarter mile of Frontage that you have on the American Tobacco Trail because people go from here to there running and on bike today and and to really maximize those percentages and internal trip capture I think there has to be more information conveyed on the plan whether it's commitments about avoiding exposed structured parking within a certain distance of the tobacco Trail or presenting you know the equivalent of Street facades I think that's really essential and that can be Wordsmith to your reference to that phrase earlier

um I 100 percent support the idea of the numbers that are represented in this plant I'm 100 opposed to the idea of approving an entitlement without more information about some of those concerns that I referenced and I'd like a little bit a little bit of clarity to the point and I just want to reinforce the point I agree with commissioner cutwright saying that you know that I don't think the discussion of affordable housing is treated sufficiently by um hanging it on the you know the efficiency question or the census tract designation because yes you may have a less efficient yield of the number of units of affordable housing but the people who work in these retail stores get there by bus today a lot of them and the ethos that you'll hear expressed over and over politically in this community is is is is that you know people should

have more equity in Access and I think that equity in accessing includes seeking ways finding ways to include some affordable housing we've had very very small projects come before this commission recently south of this location that include an offer of affordable housing on site so you know I for the scale that's being proposed here I would encourage the applicant to consider ways to find around those issues thank you thank you other questions comments commissioner Baker um I just want to pull out you know we've been working for four years on a on a comprehensive plan I just want to pull out some of the policies that are in that comprehensive plan from the draft policies typical policy a which is uh collaborate with residents on proposed mixed use or transitoring communities focused on those most in need of

affordable housing and transportation policy 33 encouraged the retrofit of aging and vacant shopping centers and excess parking areas for the development of pedestrian-oriented places that include affordable housing and which provide residents nearby access to necessary goods and services policy 39 affordable housing should be included in new development proposals policy 43 equitably distribute housing throughout Durham that is accessible to those with low incomes housing actions number two encourage the use of profits or statutory development agreements to commit to the development of affordable housing and acceptance of housing vouchers and new development and I'm simply not willing to abandon um all of this work that we've done in putting together the comprehensive plan you know and I want to pull out I want to pull out two comments that were made by our two or comments that were made by by two different Commissioners up here um commissioner cut right and commissioner sees who I who I think both uh or so many of us up here I think are if not all of us are in favor of

um and applaud the work that's being done the vision for redeveloping an aging Mall site into something that is an activity center that is Transit oriented that has better accessibility that is walkable that provides more transportation choices even though we are dealing with the reality that probably people are going to be using cars for the foreseeable future but I but I think that the big question here is um is this going to be a giant exclusionary private development or will this weave into the fabric of the city um and Durham doesn't have a ton of good standards within this zoning District we can't just rely on the standards that we have we have to rely on voluntary commitments by the developer um and we're seeing fewer commitments sort of coming to the the comments of commissioner cease there's just so little information here um on this massive and transformative project or proposed project

um you know South Point surroundings are they're Auto oriented um strategically retrofitting these centers does represent a major opportunity has to be done right we have to meaningfully expand transportation choices to Durham residents um again coming back to commissioner cease's comments we think about walkability we think about the 3DS density diversity and Design where increasing density or you're proposing to increase density that's a good thing diversity diversity of uses in proposing to increase the diversity of usage with the exception of of affordable housing the design is a big question and the devil is in the details on the design and we just don't have that information and it's it continues to be a big question mark I mean I think that we need to know that to know whether it's consistent with the vision and the values that are being proposed in the comprehensive plan and that are frankly included in in the old comprehensive plan

um and then the other commissioner the other commissioner uh who who spoke up on on the issue for affordability commissioner Cartwright speaking to affordability in terms of really Workforce housing you know we're calling it affordable housing but it's really about Workforce housing we're not talking about 30 Ami we're not talking about 50 anymore we're not talking about 50 60 70 percent of the units there's literally a proposal here for zero percent Workforce housing and um and I just I can't see how it how we can find that consistent with with the values and the vision that that Durham that the community of Durham has has set forward so to me the question is are we going to urbanize for people and places are we going to vertically suburbanize for cars and traffic we're talking about a transformative project for South Durham this won't be a new Durham downtown but this could be a South Durham downtown and we only get one shot there's only one shot and so it's important to get it right

um so to me this is a good direction and it's very very close and there are a lot of reasons to be really optimistic about the proposal and the potential and the opportunity um but for me I I I simply can't I can't support what what I have in front of me um and so to me the question is do we take a vote on it do we does the applicant take it back and do a little work and bring back to us before we send it Forward City Council and I think that's a that's a question that I have for for the commission other questions and comments commissioner cease I just quickly say that I do think word smithing could address a number of the concerns that you've heard expressed here um and I mean from my perspective at least it wouldn't give those of us who

are designers necessarily always certainly we would we would like to but but I think what's presented right now is something that is you know carte blanche within the perimeter and and um there would be I think some fairly easy ways to address some of these concerns with a bit more clarity in a short period of time such that you know um that the the the the support could be more widespread alluded to that you know commissioner cease may I um did you have any suggestions on The Pedestrian circulation plan that was included if you had anything specific we obviously want to see um that would be uh additive to that sheet in the plan which highlights the additional connection to the American Tobacco Trail and the internal pedestrian circulation so I'll tell you where my big concerns are my big concerns number one the say the the 200 feet along the frontage of an American Tobacco Trail what's before us that could all be parking that could all be parking garages you could turn

your back to that and in fact you could turn your back to that you could turn your back to Fayetteville you could turn your back to Renaissance Parkway and that seven percent would never materialize on the transit capture or we could actually engage Fayetteville with some type of urban space rather than just a sidewalk you can engage American Tobacco trail with some type of space that is more accommodating and welcoming for runners joggers cyclists people pushing strollers and isn't just a place that only those who have no choice end up walking because they don't have a car or the car broke down that day and and so those are things I think you could treat the Zone along to American Echo Trail um the only reference I thought it was kind of comical the reference to the commitment for a thousand feet of sidewalk Frontage along Fayetteville I believe with a cost threshold so we'll we'll build that but not if it's more than 65 dollars a square foot that that isn't a

strong indication of really being intentional about supporting Transit viability and pedestrian usage so that's if I rather than to your question rather than addressing the map I'd really rethink how can you actually make the external connections stronger and make the text commitments more supportive of the things that you referenced in your presentation thank you and I think to me the more pressing question at this point um is if there is a willingness by the applicant to have a continuance to work on some of these details I like cards on the table for me I would love to send this forward with a favorable recommendation because I appreciate the concept and it is a transformative project however as it stands and as I'm hearing fellow Commissioners there's some unease there with the existing plans so I think that's kind of my first priority is understanding your thoughts

on and look I know two months is too much time and I pride myself on trying to get things moved through the Planning Commission quickly but this is important and this is a big project so I I want to at least consider it

Mr chairman if may ask a assistant director Grace Smith or Mr Cahill a question if if we defer for one if we defer to a March meeting okay it says March sorry April commissioner Morgan you're rubbing off on I forgot what mother was it is uh would we be able to get to the city council in June I'm going to be honest Grace Smith with the planning department May and June um we don't have as much flexibility at city council because of the budget hearings yeah and we're already half cases in the hopper for those meetings so I can't say that we could I mean I don't want to say that with any certainty I wish I could answer that question in certain with Sergeant D but I really can't yeah but you is that is that your yeah I'll just add there's been you know some discussion with some things that have happened and things being rearranged uh even if this was passed tonight I can't guarantee you'd be

accountable for August anyway [Music] yeah I mean Mr chairman what we were trying to avoid was the delay in city council because of the summer recess and not being able to get there until August so that's actually what we were thinking um so these Point we'd be happy to work on commissioner cease's comments uh and and work on that with staff but yeah we were really hoping to get through city council before the summer break so yeah Bill Dirks are engineer so Bill works with McAdams and I just want to talk to The Pedestrian plan and make sure that I was understanding we we were proposing a lot of pedestrian interconnectivity from the site the site uh specific plans haven't been developed yet to show exactly where those are but certainly the extension

the extension of the outdoor Plaza is in consideration we have another connection to the tobacco Trail both East and West to make those connectivities I understand your statement about not turning our back on those but just the amount of connectivity I think that we've shown certainly additional improvements to what's there now and I appreciate that and I can imagine the types of conversations and Explorations because of the market realities of it right but but in terms of the entitlement document that's in front of us those could be met with a sidewalk and and through parking you know there's no discussion of how buildings may be oriented and and I I am quite confident that your team could come up with some simple descriptive elements and and phrases that could really convey a lot to address not just my concerns but a lot of the concerns especially with regards again especially

with regards to the American Tobacco Trail because we know Fayetteville Renaissance Parkway are also dominant and will be for a long time the tobacco Trail's not okay thank you yeah I yeah I'm sorry Mr chairman um uh we can commit to work on wordsmithing commitments that we would add to our plan but I'm afraid it sounds like a delay would punt us till till late summer early fall and that would be a oh that'd be really tough given the um given where we are in terms of wanting to need to move forward in with what we have yeah it's just such an uncertain Market that waiting longer is uh unfortunately could be very detrimental so we appreciate it we wish it could work um but we would respectfully asked for a a vote tonight and that way we could at least hopefully get to City Council before uh

the summer recess but I'm sorry that didn't work out so I guess not to beat this dead horse too much but I'm hearing that even if we move forward tonight you may not make it before the summer recess right but if we don't move forward tonight there's absolutely no chance so if I if I understood if is that a fair statement I don't want to speak for the staff obviously that is a fair statement there's no way I mean if it were to be delayed after tonight there's no way there's no chance it would make it before summer break and I'm just saying I can't promise that's going to get there before the summer break anyway but I know it would not happen if you delayed it tonight there's no way sorry do you have a percentage chance that you would give it season of March Madness you know okay no we there we have a lot of cases in play right now we actually have cases booked out months and it just it all depends on

who's ready when some of our cases that we think are ready we get ready to take them to put them in the agenda cycle for city council or Board of County Commissioners and something falls out of the last minute and they're not ready that's why I say I'm just not sure I can't answer that question okay uh so I'll get to more of my substantive questions then um first I just want to confirm um that with the structured parking you're going to be providing the required amount of parking so that you don't need a variance or any additional hearing on this case that's our understanding okay um secondly I guess you're already increasing the density to where um parts of the site you can go up to 145 feet on other parts you can go to 120 feet and so I guess part of my question is at that point you're in high-rise development you're not using sticks anymore

so why not add two more stories to add affordable housing for some of that the seventh Story the 120 we would still try to stick build right yeah yeah I mean it's um probably what would not be stick build chairman Amendola would be the non-residential uses hotel or office so I think anything uh that'll be multi-family will be stick built per North Carolina building code got it um so my next question then and we Patrick you and I have come across this before I start to feel uneasy when I see things like up to as all of the commitments because there's up to 300 000 office up to 1300 units of housing it could be zero I my speculation is given the market

dynamics that you can't do the office and the retail without the residential financially but I would like to see a minimum it would make me feel more comfortable to know we are indeed going to get a mix of uses obviously the mall's already there so if you just had some houses that would help but I would um I would ask you to consider providing kind of minimums of each of those uses to you know give a little bit more specificity to what can be on site um those are all my questions um I just have a couple more comments um right now the AMC theater at South Point is hiring a part-time position starting at 12 an hour if we're generous and say that person Works 25 hours a week they make twelve

hundred dollars a month and my speculation is that's not going to be enough for them to afford an apartment on site where they don't need to have a bus fare or have a vehicle to get to work and that is one of the things that is concerning to me about this site it is transformational in many ways and it has the opportunity to be more transformational but when I start to hear people talk about we're going to put market rate housing here and we're going to put affordable housing somewhere else that sounds a lot like a road we've been down before in this country that I don't support sounds a lot like segregation I don't like that I don't like that we're starting to get into a pattern where we say we're going to approve market rate development and then somewhere else down the line we're going to help out some affordable housing Developers I'm supportive of the affordable housing piece of it and I'm supportable of adding 1300 units on site I think that's great it's exciting but this loop we're

starting to get into where we're having to pick put some housing on sites and other low-income housing on other sites and put low-income people in different places than middle and higher income people that I don't feel comfortable with that and I think that's a fundamental issue with this site is what you're doing is you're creating a market where the commercial the commercial space the retail space the office space is going to be catering to people of a certain income while the people that are serving the people working in that office space can't live on site that's wrong and that's my fundamental problem with this I from a market perspective this is a no-brainer right malls are not what they used to be 20 years ago malls across the country are doing things like this and they need to be and it's a good opportunity to do this type of mixed-use development but there's a way to do it and this doesn't feel like it's hitting all those marks it feels like it has

fallen just short um I would feel more comfortable if I had if we had the details at this time about the affordable housing profit you've alluded to which I understand why that's still in the works but taking this case for what it is now I'd feel I feel hesitant and I would be very specific about that in my written comments that that is my problem with this that if I just if I zoom out and I'd say put affordable housing aside for a second which like is hard for me to do because that's something I'm passionate about but if I put that aside yes I would do this 10 out of 10 times the affordable housing component where people cannot work and live on site is a big hang up for me any other questions or comments so with that I'm going to close the

public hearing and I would entertain a motion at this time Mr chair I make a motion that we take case z22 triple zero Twenty Eight the streets at South Point Mall number two to be forwarded to the city council with a favorable recommendation second moved by commissioner Morgan seconded by commissioner Valentine is there any discussion on the motion hearing none maybe have the roll call Vu chair madolia no Vice chair Cameron yes commissioner Baker no commissioner cutwright no commissioner shagaris no commissioner Davis no commissioner MacGyver no commissioner Morgan yes commissioner cease no commissioner Trapp wholeheartedly yes

commissioner Valentine no commissioner Carmen Williams no commissioner Zuri Williams no motion fails three to ten thank you thank you to the applicant thanks to staff to the applicant again I hope this does not come across as we don't like what you're doing we want more we want to serve everyone who's going to need to be served on site for the we're going to move forward to the next case this is case z22 triple zero 32 Harlow point we'll begin with the staff report thank you chair Andy Lester the planning department this case is z220032 Harlow point for proposed zoning map change

the properties are located at 1005 1009 1011 1019. 001 and residential Suburban 20. the applicant is intended intending to bring the rs-20 parcel into the existing PDR development now this requires all the site to be rezoned the applicant is proposing to rezone the entire site to plan development residential

001 and residential Suburban 20. the site is surrounded by residential Suburban 20 and residential rural to the west north and east to the South is a plan development residential zoning

District the aerial map shows the general location of the project Bank it and developed single-family Lots or generally to the west north and east the Hanover Point subdivision is to the South a development plan is included in this proposal um five site access points are proposed by public Street connection one being to the West with a stub out to south Mineral Springs Road the second being to the north with a stub out to hold a road the third being to the east for future connection the fourth and fifth being to the South with a stub out to Red Robin Road and a future connection littlelick Creek runs through the southeast portion of the site and the applicant has provided the required 100-foot stream buffer and 10-foot building set back from the buffer Edge the development plan indicates five utility Crossings and Novi vehicular stream Crossings as the site is within the Watershed

29 percent of usable open space traffic improvements include turn Lanes

on south Mineral Springs Road and site access one traffic signal at the intersection of south Mineral Springs Road and holder road to a left turn Lane on south Mineral Springs Road between holder Road and Grimes Road the dedication of 10-foot right-of-way for the frontage of the site along Mineral Springs Road some design commitments include listing of the building materials options for building roof design and requiring each dwelling unit to have a minimum outdoor deck porch or patio of at least 40 square feet in area a neighborhood meeting was held in accordance with the UDA requirements on May 3rd two thousand 23 or sorry uh 2022 12 Community 12 community members were in attendance one survey response and four comments were provided on social pinpoint with concerns of traffic along south Mineral Springs Road

staff determines that the proposal is consistent with the comprehensive plan and other adoptive plans and policies The Proposal increases the supply of housing stock available to our residents and while this decreases the overall density of the PDR District The increased area eliminate site constraints to accommodate the construction of additional dwelling units to reach the maximum units allowed under the previously approved z1900019 development plan the pro The Proposal is inconsistent with the existing future land use map if approved staff recommends the future land use destination for the site to be changed to low density residential staff in the applicant are here to answer any questions thank you thank you this time we're going to open the public hearing I will begin with the applicant presentation

63 acre parcel was a holdout from the original zoning which Lennar was not a part of but once Lennar started building that owner wanted to

63 acre parcel is a small donut hole in the city's jurisdiction it's a tiny piece surrounded entirely by property in the city so to fix that Lennar is seeking to Annex this piece of property into the city limits and because Lennar already controls and is developing the surrounding property the best way to rezone this small piece is to add it to the existing PDR nothing about the original PDR changes other than the acreage which increases and as a result the density which decreases but the total number of units allowed Remains the Same total amount of open space total amount of tree preservation all those things remain the same as previously approved and that's

it there's not a whole lot to this project and I will mention that there is there's a site plan to prove I've already mentioned that the site plan has a 172 units approved on it the zoning allows for 191. 63 Acres so you know we're not it's not going to be possible to get up to 191 units total and that's all there is to it I I'm happy to answer any questions you may have thank you we had one other person sign up to speak in person on this case and if there's anyone listening in on the zoom call who would like to speak in on this case please raise your hand at this time the one person we have signed up in person is Den T Ron

you can come up to the podium you'll have two minutes to provide your comments please state your name and address and then make your comments yes sir I'm sorry again my English in my second language may be something you can understand please raise your voice I'm so sorry about that but however I again that resulted because I had a little property just 600 feet right away for that company and put the department they have I would pay more taxes without no benefit no water no drink no nothing go to my property in that company is no respect at all for my property they just passed in my property they stole my property include I called I call in the the state department the poor Department out there they don't do nothing about them I'm I'm

so stressful about it because right now I need to deal with old guy the you know the the way need to be done the trick is messed up completely I had no idea road to my property no more and now I need to pay tax for this even increasing the region on it so all my property we went up the taxes and pay all the high taxes without no trick no water no nothing on my property that is not fair now I can say thank you I've seen no one else in person wishing to speak um yes if you can come to the podium state your name and address and make your comments

good afternoon to each and every one of you all my name is James Taylor I'm the co-facilitator for pack District One which this area y'all are talking about if in our district and as for my child going down that way I know about that area because Lynn Road used to take us all the way into Raleigh now you can't because all the new construction but I'm here to tell you tonight that they are forcing the same thing y'all just got through talking about with the other they're doing it there too they are forcing the people to sell their land because they cannot stay there is this Fair how can you have diversity when you got these big corporations coming here that got the money

and push out the people that's already there to make them more money and then they leave and when they leave all the other destruction they give the taxpayers have to pay for it so I'm asking you all just like you did on that last one please take more concern of the people that stand around there because these corporations are not for the Durham mic that's already here they're for the money that they can get and leave but leave the trash for us to pay taxes on just like he said my taxes went up three times the value in one year because of the same thing is that fair to us and are you really representing us as Citizens and hearing us out thank you

thank you is there anyone else in person wishing to speak on this issue tonight okay seeing none we're going to turn to our Zoom participants I see one person with their hand raised Rebecca Freeman hello hi we can hear you thank you very much I'm Rebecca Freeman and I live at 1818 stockview Road in Durham um a good evening Planning Commission amidolia and all the commission members I appreciate the opportunity to speak on this development plan tonight um from the from what I was able to tell from the details that I've got off the um the um plan that was posted these are my comments uh I have a comment on the tree preservation the great majority of tree preservation is my understanding is is um on the stream buffer and therefore is not usable and I would like to see more tree preservation areas of the housing unit to add a better

6 and and in in there being a great attention to the Durham open space plan that is not um identified as having been planned for all these plans uh then number six is certainly the traffic congestion it's a very real problem in this area uh they're all they're two active development cases in this area already

and they're heavily congested um uh traffic problem that is there is only going to be compounded um and I also want to call attention to the uh pinpoint comments of the uh Neighbors in very close proximity to this development I wanted to make some comments on the uh evaluations Rebecca your two minutes are over okay thank you very much for letting me speak thank you uh next we have Pamela Andrews thank you good evening everyone uh Pamela Andrews 6108 Wake Forest Highway um I know this is a small parcel of this being added to the current project so um I understand that it's a very small decision tonight but I would like you to really listen to what the gentleman said earlier and Minister Chavis as these homeowners that are surrounding these large developments are facing huge impacts impacts on their tax rates impacts on the noise around them that they finally just decide I can't take it

anymore and I'm willing to put my property up just to re to get away and to remove myself from this intense noise every single day between blasting and Machinery so I just want you to consider that as you look at each one of these Parcels the impact it has on people around them that have no say and I truly feel sorry for the gentleman that spoke earlier thank you so much thank you anyone else looking to speak on this case tonight are you seeing none uh Mr Ghosh you had about eight minutes left of your time if you want to use any of it or I'm sorry seven minutes of your time sure um I would want I the the gentleman who spoke after me I would right here um like to talk to you some more I'm not real sure where your property is I I didn't quite get that down I want to try

63 Acres uh site plan has been approved uh CDs have been granted sites been cleared and you know the the I think it would be Maybe a little bit disingenuous to make commitments here related to the development of the property it's already being developed under the current zoning and and I don't know what like in in full transparency so that's what it's going to be developed as um hopefully I think you can understand where I'm coming from on this um but it I think in lennar's hands it's

essentially add this to the PDR or leave it in the county thank you yeah thank you okay we'll turn it over to commissioner questions and comments commissioner Morgan uh quick question for the applicant there's no other changes from the prior approved plan from years ago other than incorporating this parcel right so the acreage goes up as a result the density goes down no other text commitments or other items technically I think the answer is yes somehow when this plan was approved there were no design commitments on it in 19 I'm looking at planning sap a few yeah yeah so the design commitments I guess are technically new okay but they're representative of what's being built there what's being

built I mean it's also representative of of other uh items as well as far as choice of design or whatever for the like materials roofline that type of thing yeah that I think that that's what the design commitments uh refer to and I if memory serves somehow the original development plan was approved without any design commitments I just want to be aware if there's nothing else being slipped in here that's correct yeah I forgot about that the the other change uh in the original development plan there was a requirement for a five foot bike lane that had been changed now to a 10-foot shared facility for that that's another change so that those are the changes okay thank you other questions or comments commissioner Baker yeah can I just can staff just confirm

that this is all accurate um not that I don't trust you I'm almost offended but I know I'm joking um just because you know reading the staff report didn't really get that narrative so I just wanted to make sure it all checks out yeah that that's a great question so we run into this sometimes with the process um applicants will be advised to include a certain parcel in a project to start with we can't force them to they don't I could see in the notes that they were advised on this one uh for sounds like for an ownership or reason that the person did not want to be a part of the project now they do we would have liked this to be a part of it the first time around there's no additional commitments there were no design commitments in the original development plan that's correct um that does not mean that some cannot be proffered however Mr Ghosh is correct this isn't the site plan I've already approved phase it's pretty much under development um if you went back and required some sort of commitments tonight they would have

to retroactively apply them to something that's already being built okay thank you yeah I just wanted to clarify that especially for the folks who um who came here to speak and who spoke online is that at this stage we we have very little control over what can happen um and this body has been pretty consistent in some of its concern over some of the sprawl that's been happening in Durham but again we don't we don't have final say over what happens uh even on cases that are not already under construction so something to be aware of thank you are there questions or comments from commissioners okay um seeing none I would like I'm going to go ahead and close the public hearing and I would accept emotion at this time Mr chair I'd like to make whoop go ahead no Miss um I'd like to make a sorry I am

going to interrupt real quick if you could come to the podium I'm I'm sorry again that is the third time I can received the ladder took over here and for that process and even I've owned the property of over three years I cannot be sure but that's the first time I hear it but I was upset the way they do on my property chair go ahead and make a motion to take case z22 triple zero 32 Harlow point to be forwarded to the city council with a favorable recommendation second moved by commissioner Morgan seconded by commissioner cease is there any discussion on the motion um I would just say to the again the people who spoke tonight we hear your concerns and

we think about that consistently when we look at cases because of the nature of this case and already being developed it's hard for us to do much here um and this is also a place where I think our city overall can do a better job funding residents and homeowners and helping them to be able to stay in their homes as new development occurs with that maybe have the roll call Vote jerem dolia Yes Vice chair Cameron yes commissioner Baker yes commissioner cut right yes commissioner shagaris yes commissioner Davis yes commissioner Macgyver yes commissioner Morgan yes Mr cease yes commissioner Trapp yes Valentine yes commissioner Carmen Williams yes commissioner Zuri Williams yes motion carries 13-0 thank you we are at or approaching our two hour

break for our closed captioners so we're going to go ahead and break and we will return at 7 40 pm

so Tasha how do you determine what kind of repairs are actually needed on a street so there are various factors that we consider first is the the PCI what is the condition of the road as it was last rated and then we look at the condition of the road in real time so if the road is in good condition we perform a specific uh category of repairs if the road is in fair condition there's another category of repairs and if it's in poor condition yet another category that we can apply cracks and the type of distress also impacts the type of treatment you will see even within the good to Fair category if you want to make a difference in our community while enjoying a fulfilling and rewarding career there may be a position here at the city of Durham with your name on it we're hosting a job fair on Monday March 20th from 1 to 6 pm at

the Durham Convention Center and we'd love for you to come check out all the positions available there are openings in public safety as a 911 call Taker and as fire and police recruits we also have positions and operations such as equipment vehicle and Street Maintenance groundskeeping heavy equipment operators and technicians and water plant operators and mechanics if you're looking for a more administrative role there are openings in administration and customer service as well as in engineering bring your resume and be prepared to potentially participate in on-site interviews to see all available job openings go to German cgov dot info slash jobs 2023 here's some tips to ensure that your garbage and recycling gets picked up one your cart should be put out for collection before 6am on your collection day two your card should be at least three feet from all other objects such as mailboxes telephone poles fire

hydrants trees and other carts three your card should be no more than three feet from the curb four no vehicles should be blocking your carts the mechanical arms on our trucks need direct access to your carts and cannot reach around vehicles find more information about garbage and recycling pickups go to this web address [Music] my younger sister was someone that never got involved with bad people she was a selfless person and her life was taken away by her boyfriend due to gun violence in front of her three younger kids I was in my car I heard Lyle gunfire didn't know where I got shot was dramatic and experienced

I couldn't you know want anybody to live through gun violence can happen any given time anywhere I'm truly blessed to be alive today the person that did this to my sister is still on the loose and we were Justice for my sister and for my nephews we don't want for this to happen to another woman out there don't stay quiet don't be afraid to talk I like being there for people I like when my investigators and I go out there that were out there with a specific purpose and that's to try to bring somebody to Justice on behalf of a citizen to get a violent criminal off the streets [Music] I'm born and raised in Durham I still have family members here classmates friends it's personal for me we see on the news constantly the numbers of shootings is in the hundreds

last year is pushing a thousand so you would think that around every corner there's somebody with a gun ready to shoot but through our investigations we've learned that the percentage of the population that's committing a lot of these shootings is very low compared to the number of shootings were actually happening members of the community can help make it safer if they've seen something in their neighborhood please call us let us know there are creative ways to be able to solve crimes and that's through Anonymous information through Avenues such as Crime Stoppers getting that information in the hands of police investigators it's it's critical because a lot of stuff we can have ideas of what happened but if we can't prove it in Court Justice isn't going to be served just give us the information to help point us in the right direction

thank you [Music] listen yeah

353 Acres it is within the Suburban development tier and within the county no annexation is proposed in conjunction with this rezoning the existing zoning is split Zone commercial General with a development planned and Rural residential rural the applicant is proposing to rezone the entire property to commercial General with a development plan to accommodate a self-storage use

S 70. generally to the East and North as undeveloped agricultural land the site is specifically adjacent to the parcel K development which includes 837

3 percent tree preservation that exceeds the UDA minimums um some of the commitments include use limits to Self Storage

3 tree preservation a maximum building square footage of 300 000 well 345 000 square feet some traffic improvements include construction of an exclusive Northbound left lane on Leesville Road for site access number one construction of a 10-foot shared path for the full Frontage of the site along the west side of Leesville Road and dedication of right-of-way for the future construction of a cul-de-sac bulb for side xs3 and some design commitments include roof lines for all structures to be flat roof with parapet with pear pits or shed roofs with parapets and designed so that storm water runoff will be directed to the flow toward the stormwater BMP and they do clarify use of combination of materials a neighborhood meeting was held in accordance with the UDA requirements on June 28 2022 no community members were in attendance

one survey response was provided on social pinpoint with concerns for hours of operation staff determines that the proposal is consistent with the comprehensive plan and other adopted plans and policies The Proposal would provide a specific commercial convenience to a growing residential area surroundings only designations of adjacent properties are a mix of commercial industrial residential The Proposal is partially inconsistent with the existing future land use map if approved staff recommends the future land use map designation for the entire site to be changed to commercial Staffing applicant are available for any questions thank you thank you at this time we will open the public hearing and we will begin with the applicant presentation good evening chairman amadolia Vice chair Cameron members of the planned commission I'm Patrick biker I still live at 2614 Stewart Drive I'm attorney with Morningstar Law Group and I'm representing Warren Mitchell with the

S 70 therefore enhancing Traffic Safety furthermore our development plan proposes about Connections right-of-way dedication and multi-use path improvements that will potentially increase walkability and connectivity to the surrounding areas second by providing additional tree preservation areas and removing the

possibility of a vehicular stream Crossing this project makes an effort to provide a development that is environmentally respectful third the site for the proposed storage facility is appropriate for the intended use given that is very close to Highway 70 which is a major commercial thoroughfare and fourth the applicant has met with members of the community and has encountered no significant pushback to this proposal that we're aware of this evening in conclusion the project provides a viable commercial use at an appropriate area commits to protecting more open space than required into making site improvements to improve local connectivity accordingly we respectfully request your approval our team will be happy to answer any questions we thank you for your time tonight thank you okay with that we're going to turn to public comment we have two people who sign up to speak in person and then we'll go to our Zoom participants if you're in the zoom meeting please go ahead and start raising your hand to queue yourself up in person we have

Herman spelling and Stephen Nill foreign thank you Commissioners my name is Herman Sperling I reside at 2628 Bloomsbury Manor Drive in Durham I am in favor of this project for a simple reason it's in the public good my community in Carolina Arbors has 1292 homes in one of our covenants says that owners can only Park one car in their driveway without a basement they store a lot of things in their garage and that creates a hardship for many people because they have no place to go this will provide immediate access to conditioned storage space and it will help people second reason is because we are very concerned about traffic on Leesville Road in particular in the intersection

of Highway 70 in Leesville and I can't think of any type of building that would have less traffic than what is being proposed so progress is we're going to move forward there's going to be building in Durham if there's something that serves our interests both in developing the capacity to store and also to create the least traffic impact that sounds to me like a good project to that end last night I had the occasion to meet with many of the leaders of fendle farms a community of about 600 single-family houses near us and my own Community Carolina arbors with the president of our HOA they are in favor of this project I know that's not a statistically relevant number but it is some impact it is I am reporting some reaction from the local community with that I thank you very much for your time

S 70 near us into a parking lot with a Boulevard so we can't think of anything better than something that's not going

to bring a whole lot more traffic and a whole lot more people right to this specific area and as Herman said people relocating to this area especially those people who are living in the 3000 active adult homes unfortunately have a lot of stuff they've moved here to to uh to downsize to a smaller home except they haven't gotten rid of anything so their garages are all full and they just can't seem to part with Grandma's favorite chair dad's service photos and yes younger Millennials are not coveting this stuff as much as previous generations but that still leaves about 50 years worth of stuff to find a home as younger Boomers and older Millennials are still keeping it so we're uh we're we're supportive of this and I'm sure there'll be a lot of people using it'll be very successful thank you thank you is there anyone else attending in person who would like to speak on this item

okay seeing none we're going to move to our Zoom participants we'll begin with Carrie Steinbeck I suspect this is Donna it is somehow they keep messing up the the correspondence but this is Donna Steinbeck at 4825 Jimmy Rogers Road in Durham North Carolina good evening Durham planning Commissioners and participants I am concerned with this plan due to the lack of a storm water plan and the probable use of blasting this is for 22 Acres of soil to be masqueraded and this is in the leak Creek Watershed and the proximity to the elite Creek Lick Creek tributary is 1200 feet a major concern is that there was no commitment made in the zone map Change Report said no information available the um these plans will be made in site

3 percent is in the wetlands yet we need trees to help slow down the amount of the Watershed and those sediment ponds you know in the area are not working well um blasting is likely since the proposal has a much impervious soil and there the uh slopes range from 444 feet to 376 feet the high point is less than 100

3 Acres of the tree preservation

3 acres is a small it's small considering the size of the need of mature trees most the tree preservationists Sean appears to be within the proposed buffers of the Wetland or the intermittent strength thus we have to assume that this uh site will be graded from property line to property line as to provide a flat grade required for this type of business we're requesting uh that a 30-foot bound natural boundary be provided along the entire perimeter that will maintain the existing tree canopy as much as possible and that is recommended in the proposed Udo text Amendment regarding uh phase development tree preservation maintaining maturity canopy will reduce stormwater runoff and treatment reduce storm erosion reduce heat island effect

uh improve local air water quality filter to Air pollutions and it will enhance the facility and many other benefits of the diverse animal habitat uh habitat and food in addition we are requesting that a 50-foot boundary would be provided the entire length along the Leesville Road with a 08 capacity to concern to conserve or provide Scenic views from the public roadway and not provide a district Hardscape thank you thank you and last we have Pamela Andrews good evening Planning Commission thank you for your time I just want to say very quickly the neighborhood meetings are so low because this isn't the point where very almost nobody knew about them and I do commend the planning department for business on the weekly updates that we receive um as well as now extended up to a thousand feet so we are getting more notifications and putting more input into these neighborhood meetings but I want to just bring up very quickly

3 percent of 22 acres is only a little over two acres of tree preservations if I understood the numbers correctly the proximity to this site is only 1200 feet from a tribute here that feeds Lick Creek so more tomato soup will abound again please watch the presentation by Samantha Crop the news River Keeper last week we know two Texas amendments are on the way one's erosion control Amendment one's tree preservations but if these things continue to be passed these amendments will have no impact on them and we definitely need them again horse farms are close by Dynamite blasting will ensue more than likely it has in all the other sites that's just not good for the animals in our environment so we ask you to seriously consider again it's less traffic as her uh Herman and Steven

you'll mentioned but we're also concerned about the mask rating because it's impacted lip Creek thank you for your time thank you is there anyone else hoping to speak on this case at this time okay seeing none I'm going to turn it over to commissioner question and comment commissioner thank you um chair just a quick question in regards to something that came up on social pinpoint about hours of operation sure good evening Warren Mitchell I live at 104 Amberwood run Chapel Hill uh we currently my partner and I who's sitting over here uh we currently own a facility on Highway 64 in Chatham County and the hours of operation usually so when

we add the self storage we have those operations those hours from 6 to 11. sometimes we do have a lot of boat or RV customers that are getting an early start and you know going on their vacation they do need to sometimes come in early in the morning so we don't limit those hours but the boat and RV traffic is is quite low it just even look even lower than Self Storage which is low in itself so uh a lot of people don't use the toys that they purchase but they want to they can't they can't leave them home they want to keep them covered and safe and just need a place to put them but uh I hope that answers the question yeah absolutely and to that point I think I've heard that the best two days of having a boat or the day you buy it and the day you sell it so thank you I believe that's correct

3 um so could you could applicants speak a little bit to that percentage um can go up I'm I am concerned about you know yes all of the development that's happening in that area and the blasting okay um can you and can um can you just speak to the blasting storm water issues um and one of the comments was about a 30 30 foot natural boundary if you could if you could talk about that those four issues okay so first on the um since you brought up the tree preservation uh and the size of the

property a large part of this property is a Duke power right away so uh maybe in response to you and the callers um a lot of the property cannot be used we've we know for a fact that Duke doesn't allow any use in their easement and that also leaves a little bit of the property on the other side of the east of that easement not usable the as far as the and so I think that it it so my response is there's going to be much more than 10 percent not being used in addition the blasting I know uh the caller is probably referring to some of the residential developments where they have to blast be usually because of the utilities getting the storm water and the the sewer in deep we don't have any

utilities here just be buildings so you don't you're not going down deep there will be some storm drainage but um we had some we had some geotechnical work done already in borings and it looks like uh we will be above any Rock uh I don't think anybody in this room wants blasting any less than my partner and I because it's very expensive so at this point I don't see any blasting happening because of the geotechnical work we had done and then regarding the buffer the a net a thin natural buffer is not nearly as effective as a a planted buffer where you can combine deciduous Evergreens they grow up they're low they have a chance to thrive because they're not uh in a canopy so

my our goal is to have a really attractive landscape buffer along Leesville um to be planted there's really nothing there now um there's a single family home with no buffer in front there's a little bit of woods and then we've had the original parcel that was approved years ago that was already denuded um and so there's really nothing in terms of a perimeter buffer to save in regarding this side properties which which is the partial K that's their main entrance uh you know due to the slope they are we do not want to say the trees I think the other uh theory is that with um with the Evergreens we can get a much thicker buffer than leaving a thin stand of pine tree so you know large groups of trees is always

beneficial thin buffers of of Pines that are mature it's not usually not just putting a 20 or 30 foot wide stand of natural trees is not always the best buffer I 35 years in the business that's what I've seen a planted buffer can be a better screen so any is that fully addressed most of the questions yeah yeah and staff are we are we happy with the storm water commitments that are that are made or they from best practices and what one more comment actually on stormwater thank you for bringing that up the original plan we were doing low density which was we had just a small area of boat and RV storage on the first parcel so that would not have required all the storm water commitments

using low density uh storm water approach whereas when you when you go over the and you go into the high density option then you have to meet all of the storm water conditions so that that's also why this more more impervious but potentially better okay uh did you we can speak to that commissioner Baker um so at site plan they'd be required to meet the one two or ten year storm event 24-hour Peak event um there is no additional commitment on this development plan other than the roof commitment that the why the roof will be designed to direct the water towards the bmps which is a more creative commitment that we haven't seen a lot of other projects but they are not committing to any excess storm water commitments in in excess of the ordinance otherwise what are some of those can you remind me

um what some of those commitments are that we've seen the past yeah we've the most common one we've seen is to detain at the 100 Year storm water 24-hour Peak event at something like 90 percent is that that's something you'd you'd be interested in committing I don't know the uh what at this point what uh those commitments would have as a effect on the site or the size but I do believe that the city's stormwater um regulations are pretty robust no yeah I think if I could add one thing commissioner Baker The Challenge on this site is to um is the power reason that's on site in

the old days we could put bmps in power easements Duke power won't let us do that anymore so that's a you got to keep in mind there's the jurisdictional stream buffer on the What's called the west side of the site and and then you got the power easement and that's unfortunately that really hampers the site in order to explore whether or not whether or not it'd be possible to build a big enough BMP to handle the 100 Year storm but our impression is the answer would be no just in terms of the size of the site yes sir it's gonna be a big building probably probably several smaller buildings not what you're used to seeing multi-story probably more the the different short buildings yeah smaller yeah other questions or comments

okay seeing none I would entertain a motion at this time Mr chair I make a motion that we take z22 triple zero 37 Leesville storage to be forwarded to the County Commission with a favorable recommendation second moved by commissioner Morgan seconded by commissioner Valentine is there any discussion on the motion seeing none that we have the roll call vote chair on the dolia no Vice chair Cameron yes commissioner Baker yes commissioner cut right yes commissioner shagaris yes commissioner Davis yes commissioner Macgyver yes commissioner Morgan yes commissioner cease yes commissioner Trapp yes commissioner Valentine yes commissioner Carmen Williams yes commissioner Zuri Williams yes motion carries 12-1

217 Acres existing zoning is residential Suburban 20. the applicant is proposing a general rezoning to industrial Light to allow for its corresponding uses the existing future land use map designation is industrial the proposed industrial Light is consistent with the industrial Flume designation lastly this project is located in the Falls Jordan District B watershed

existing zoning is residential Suburban 20. the site is surrounded by residential Suburban 20 and industrial Light the aeromap shares the near location of the project to the east of the site is vacant industrial land to the West are single family residences a neighborhood meeting was held in accordance with Edo requirements on June 3rd 2022 five community community members were in attendance one social pinpoint comment was received by staff in relation to this case with concerns of expanding industrial land staff determines this request is consistent with The Flume the draft Place type map and the comprehensive plan another adopted ordinances ordinances and policies staff and the applicant are available to answer any questions thank you thank you this time we will open the public hearing we'll begin with the applicant presentation we'll have 10 minutes to provide any

2 Acres from residential to Industrial use it is consistent with the feature and then use map the area is industrial as it is [Music] um of the we for the neighborhood I'm sorry for the neighborhood meeting we notified residents and property owners and tenants within a thousand feet of the property we had those five members show up within that thousand feet looking at the current zoning map 140 it's 145 total acres of land in that in that notification area 120 Acres of that land is industrial commercial use so we do believe this is the highest and best use for this property at this time so I'm available for any questions you

may have thank you thank you we have one person signed up to speak in person I'm a fair Zoom participants who would like to speak on this item please start raising your hand um we so the one person who signed up to speak is Tim Blackwell Tim if you'll state your name and address you'll have two minutes to provide your comments hello y'all appreciate you my name is Tim Blackwell 531 North Hoover Road pretty much directly across the street from that property and I'm not against it being zoned but I'd like to know what is the what are you going to do with it we've asked that question on on the telephone and nobody would say what there's so many uses but there's a lot of things that we don't want in the neighborhood

sir if you would like to finish your comments now is the time for you to provide I mean we don't want a correctional facility adult establishment uh Hospital cemeteries bus station I mean a lot of things be nice there are restaurants the wheels fun park there used to be Wheels the city of Durham is bought that the soccer fields right down right across the street from wheels and the city's turning Wheels into a park so you know we want to keep it a nice neighborhood I'm not against the trucks that are parked in the lot right across the street from my house I'm not against that warehouse something like that is no problem but there are certain things that would be permitted that the neighbors don't want and I'm one of them and that's it I reckon thank you thank you is there anyone else wishing to speak on this case tonight

2 Acres setbacks and privy Services we did demonstrate that there is very limited uses that we can potentially have there so we most like they're looking at a small office building or Warehouse bus station's definitely got a question Correctional Facility those types of things it just would be very limited space so we express that in neighboring meeting and follow-up comments and and phone calls as well so um it's uh like I said it's just a very small law so this is very limited amount of uses we can do there so thank you thank you

at this time I'll turn it over to commissioner questions or comments commissioner Baker yeah um one thing we've seen in the past is when there's a great deal of heartburn um around a potential rezoning or the new Zone that's being requested um we have seen some applicants that have uh volunteered to limit some of the more intense uses or at least some of the uses that that create more heartburn and I almost wonder if if that's something that you've thought about if that's something that that you've considered or might want to do here yeah we would certainly entertain that option um the owner has just wanted to not limit his options in the future but if

that's something that will make it more favorable for recommendations to city council we're talking willing to look at that yeah permission to speak I just want to speak a little bit to uh the uh maybe what's being referred to as like a textual development plan uh this commission saw and approved that Amendment which allows textual development plans to commit to a different additional commitments not just a use limitation which would maybe address some of the concerns of the community but also any other uh proffers that the applicant would like to make if that is the route they choose to go they could pay the difference in fee do a textual development plan and still move forward to city council because they would use it to address some of the concerns that the Planning Commission would bring up thanks for that avoid that so is that something that

could be done during this meeting or would it have to would we have to delay it or would it have to be re - that's a great question so we can't convert to a textual development plan in the middle of the meeting unfortunately but I don't know Grace I'll defer to our assistant director on that one Grace Smith planning we had one example of um a case that was here before you and between Planning Commission and city council they they added a text only and just added use like restricted some uses that addressed some of your comments and we allowed that one to move forward and not come back because it was clear it was addressing your comments and your concerns if it goes above and beyond and it's more like a full-on textual and there's more commitments it's potential that would have to come back to you there may be a call that is a significant change and it needs to come back but that that's what I have seen done in the past the uses committed to

between this meeting and city council and paying the slightly different fee and moving forward if it addressed your comments okay so we can make comments we can take a vote make comments regarding the uses the applicant can work with the gentleman here or other community members that can move forward to the city council right if if we were if the staff works with the applicant and we determine that what they're proposing pretty much addresses your comments okay we feel comfortable not bringing it back but if it's something that we feel like you need to see again we will bring it back okay um I'm comfortable with that and um the applicant is a former planning commissioner who I have trust in so I I'm happy with that any other questions or comments or just second that I would feel comfortable with that procedure as well um with that I would intend enter or I'm

going to close the public hearing and then I would entertain a motion Mr chair I'll make a motion for case number z22 triple zero forty five 602 North Hoover Road rezoning to be forwarded to the city with a favorable recommendation second moved by commissioner Morgan seconded by commissioner Baker is there any discussion on the motion does that need to include anything about the um textual comments or that motion or no um I don't think so because I don't think the applicant is committing to do that tonight okay the applicant will just note that we would like for him to do that thanks chair that's correct I think you would make your recommendation and then make sure that in your comments you list the things you would like to see if they're going to consider that and if they don't do that then why you have concerns yeah

did you want to add anything Mr Santiago yeah and like I said we've discussed it before on our team to to do that so we are open to doing it um we just haven't made those commitments on paper yet but we're definitely open to doing some limitations if that's needed thank you um any further discussion do you want anything for commissioner Carmen Williams okay I just um I know that we're not committing to anything right now and the motion has been made and has been properly second um I just definitely have concerns about whether or not the resident will be well informed on the limitations and the possibilities with full understanding of what could possibly go there and what the restrictions and the limitations are we are well versed in how we articulate things however the plain text for the community should be such so saying that

we don't want to allow are you whatever in this particular area is not going to be advantageous for the residents so I want to make sure that in our notes and our comments that we're creating a dialogue space of contingency between the residents as well as the potential developer because this isn't going to just impact him but it's going to impact the community because as I understand it there's also a place of worship near this place so we need to be very considerate of the community impacted not just within proximity right now but future use is going forward as we're articulating our thoughts I just want to make sure we're mindful in our comments thank you for that um uh okay at this time seeing no further discussion um maybe have the roll call vote chairman dolia yes Vice chair Cameron yes

commissioner Baker yes commissioner cut right yes commissioner shigars yes commissioner Davis yes commissioner MacGyver yes commissioner Morgan yes commissioner cease yes commissioner Trapp yes commissioner Valentine yes commissioner Carmen Williams yes Mrs early Williams yes motion carries 13-0 thank you okay with that we are done with our public hearings for the evening um so we'll move to our next agenda item I would just like to State for the record um under old business we do not have any old business um the item under old business and the agenda that was published has new comprehensive plan that was a typo so we'll go to our new business and we'll begin with the fiscal year 24 planning department work program thank you chairman doya I just wanted to

State for the record that um our wonderful staff behind the scenes already fixed that typo on the agenda online so our listeners and what people watching at home probably already saw that fixed so good evening chair mendolia Vice chair Cameron and planning Commissioners I'm Grace Smith one of the assistant directors with the planning department and I'm covering the work program item this evening as you may have seen from the planning director's memo included with this item the Department's work program focuses mainly on three areas ongoing projects and processes that reflect legal requirements to respond to things like site plans zoning map changes use permits certificates of appropriateness and zoning and enforcement actions those are examples um that's one area another area ongoing projects and processes that relate to city and county policies for providing timely public information that's our customer service support for boards and commissions like what we're doing tonight and the department management

the other area that we um we have work products in is projects and processes that are somewhat discretionary reflecting the city and the County's desire to engage in long-range planning activities such as our new comprehensive plan that we've spent so much time on in the near future unified development ordinance Udo rewrite which we are all excited about the majority of the department planning Department's work is dictated by state and local law it falls in that first area that we talked about our first bucket and the main area of variability in the work program is work completed by the plant Community planning and strategic support work groups you'll see that listed in attachment B for the coming fiscal year the main policy planning emphasis and resource allocation will shift from completion of our new comprehensive plan to its implementation and rewrite of the Udo any new additions that have been made in Part B are marked as new and the next step for the proposed work

program is to be reviewed by The Joint City County planning committee and then it will be presented to both city council and board of County Commissioners we ask that the Planning Commission make a recommendation on this item this evening if you have any questions we're here to answer those thank you I have one quick procedural question for you Grace do we need a roll call vote for this um you can you you can do a show of hands if you like it's up to you great questions or comments from the Planning Commission I have a feeling I know what commissioner Baker Grace knows too oh it's okay go ahead I'm ready yeah so two two years ago I'd asked um if if we could receive this or or an addendum to this attachment to this um with sort of a chart showing a list of the long-range projects and sort of on

the x-axis the the timeline for when that might start the amount of time it might take um portion of the project that would be Community engagement and the anticipated finishing of the project um and um yeah so you're well aware of this request sure so I'd like to say yes you have asked for that now we'll say um that all of those timelines horizontally for our long-range projects are included in the projects and they are they are provided to um this body jccpc and the governing bodies as part of our updates that we bring you so those are included with those projects they're not included in this list because this is our complete working list of everything we do in the department as you can see it's fairly exhaustive right down to um I mean it gets right down to like you know answering the phones almost so um it's in this layout because this is this is a it is linear it's not it's not really supposed to be a big big

beautiful broad picture but it is very linear it pretty much captures everything we do we actually had an Excel spreadsheet that we used to um use well we still use some of us using the department not everyone use it but it literally captures every one of these um these different activities or work products and how much time we spend on those throughout the year and we have a we have used that for different different reasons throughout the year getting to my point is a lot of this is used in our Workforce towards budget and how much money we need for different projects and how much money we need for staff and allocation the good news is so back to that horizontal time frame for some of our long-range projects those are in the projects we also are building a dashboard yes I'm going to call you up so I've mentioned this last year and that's why I'm calling Alexander Cahill up here um Alexander has been leading the charge on building a dashboard for the Department that gives you a clear picture and it will be an online dashboard so it's not something that I would have to bring to you in a meeting

and someone would have to be here to see her or join Zoom they could look at it any time of the day and it captures a lot of the things I think that you're looking for potentially um so I called him up here I'll let him I answer any questions about that dashboard if you have any of those that will be ready by the end of this fiscal year that was our one of our goals to finish that project this year we are having some technical um we're working through some technical issues right now to get it launched but it's it's pretty much almost ready so um I hope that helps answer some of your questions but yeah yeah and of course I've sort of laid out what it could look like but I think the point is having something that lays out the long-range projects in a very accessible way not just accessible to us or to you but to the public and maybe even spur some ideas and excitement like we have an affordable housing plan oh we haven't started on it because it's not budgeted but it's on the list right and then maybe people would start asking hey when when is that going to happen when are we going to get budget when are we going to

budget for it we have a small area plan a quarter plan for fables trade Hey when's that going to happen what's the timeline for it I think I think sort of laying that out in an easily accessible way whatever that looks like if it's a dashboard or if it's a spreadsheet or whatever would be really useful yeah I'll let Alexander give you just like a quick couple minute overview of the dashboard we're really excited about it but as far as this particular this particular work program this is what we intend to work on next year so if you see it listed here we've either we've either secured the funds or we will secure the funds to work on it so that that's something I can tell you that because this is submitted as part of our budget so like the Udo rewrite we we had monies um we we brought over into this fiscal year so we could go ahead and start working on that now and get ahead of it so that when the uh bother comp plan is being um getting at the end of the process and being approved hopefully we can start jumping in with that with that consultant for the Udo rewrite and start working on those things while it's like

right now and not wait until next next fiscal year so can you talk about the dashboard quickly yeah I'll make sure y'all see it before it's launched how's that uh the open data dashboard is going to be based on a couple of things we have a data Hub that we use with the city already and we already collect data on a lot of different metrics both qualitative and quantitative this open data portal will portray those those data points it's also going to kind of speak to what you're asking commissioner Baker it's going to show the racial Equity inclusion action plan special projects work plan affordable housing plan which we don't have yet but we brought on Aaron Kane as our principal planner of affordable housing and that's one of his tests so it's going to have a way for these to be portrayed in accessible ways to the community have ways for them to interact with them and then I think the last part to this is sometimes we get hung up on Project plan timelines and what's most important is that we get the resources to do the work rather than completing it by a certain time and so the racial Equity inclusion action plan is a good example of this we work

diligently over three years to make that happen as a result we actually have only 20 hours a week right now but apart employee Amber agadon doing a fabulous job leading a racial Equity inclusion work and so that's just how some of this plays out when you focus a little bit less on those project timelines and more on allocating the resources to them excuse me well thanks for that and then just a question on the Udo so we've the city has issued the RFP for the Udo right has it closed yet or is it still open it did okay and uh can you tell us any more about how many consultants have applied or we are in the process of working through those right now like it's closed we're working through the app the applications and okay and such so we'll be back with more information soon about that you'll you'll be definitely on the front line and and be in the thick of it perfect all right thanks Chris yes you're welcome

any other questions or comments commissioner cease so one of the suggestions that was made uh maybe it was a couple of years ago the first one of my early meetings the first time I'd seen this uh a former commissioner suggested well this is just a list and yes now it's more articulated in terms of what the elements are on there but reflecting on our joint meeting with Council earlier this month I guess it was um one of the things that was loud and clear in that meeting from Council I feel was some concerns about the amount of time that it takes for things to be approved or processed or reviewed and not just from the staff perspective but our perspective all the processes and so time is is a con is a concern and since this is associated with kind of budget I'm

wondering and and maybe this is a suggestion for next year but as we make decisions about text changes as we make decisions about our suggestions to applicants about things to consider that kind of shape future materials it seems that it would be really helpful just to have a sense of how the planning department staff is allocated we know they're 47 plus four part-time employees allocated to all these tasks but I like it would be nice to know how many generally in Broad General brush terms or broad brush terms what do some of these listed items require in terms of Staff resources and and I'm asking it from the perspective of are there things that we shape through our conversations are asks that um are impactful in ways that we should understand

so um one thing we can always share the organizational chart with you that'll just give you a picture of where people are it's not going to tell you what they do all day long like what how they spend their hours but if they're on a team that's devoted to certain things that's probably how they spend their time um I will tell I will say this to you right now we didn't we didn't throw out any um specific numbers at that joint meeting but we can tell you and we have the data to back it and I'm sure it will be included as part of that dashboard I'm assuming you correct me if I'm wrong how things move through the process and how where they are in the process because we actually are moving much quicker than we were and things have changed we do have a much better situation with our staffing allocation we or excuse me our capacity is much better than it was I think if I just want to remind everyone we didn't get into these weeds at the Joint meeting but the ones of you that have been here a few years you know that we had a lot of Staff turnover yeah we lost like two teams two like I I was managing and we

lost two teams at one point I was the only person doing his short preservation and zonings for about three months I think by myself and then I started to like take employees from other teams just so we could get stuff to you all to be reviewed so we've uh rebounded from that I feel like we've rebounded really nicely actually and we have more resources than we ever have had to throw at this work and um so I don't have any like I can't tell you any specifics or how you play into that I'm just like I wanted to make sure you you see that picture that right now we're feeling pretty good about our resources and and maybe an org chart would be sufficient but and I'm not I'm not suggesting you know um any criticism whatsoever with regards to timing I'm reflecting on that as a part of the conversation that occurred with Council uh and and kind of looking at this list thinking it'd be nice to know how many people are here you know and just in general terms because you can't commit and things change thank you no we

would love we will be more than happy to share the org chart with you I think that would be a very um we should have probably already we share it with people when they asked and we and we do have an updated one so we'll share yeah it's based on our it's based on what we're doing not just people it's it's so yeah you'll see where the work lives and how many positions there are and then you just assume those are the people that's how many positions are doing that work so and just to clarify the reason I'm asking is I want to hopefully avoid asking things that are perhaps minor but are major in staff allocation no another me from that last meeting that we walked out of there and I didn't want you y'all to feel you ought to feel like that um we're not staffed appropriately to manage the work that comes to you I think we probably are now I mean I think Alexander would agree and Alexander's in the midst of it every day but um but it's a whole different I'm telling it's a whole different world when you go from one and a half ftes doing this work at one point to maybe is it four five four

or five at any given time we we have a lot of um capacity right now but we're doing other things too that that team has taken over well that work group is doing text amendments we've combined combined some things and anyway yeah it just so growth management went from like Grace said just her at one point than just me and her too now we have five staff uh we reallocated and this is something director young is very good at she looks at the department she consults her ads and we move people to meet wheat different work and so uh with the site plan group now has seven employees instead of six so there's some moves there that are really really good you asked how y'all can stay involved and help and move the process along if you join our planning newsletter and see what's going on tomorrow we have like a user testing event you know things like that that you see and you want to participate in that's ways to help us make the process better and stronger thank you that was great thank you for adding that thank you commissioner sorry we got carried away

we're just excited that we actually have like we're doing some work now that we've been wanting to do oh no it's great I was thinking um I guess I'm thankful that we're talking longer about the Department's work plan than we talked about pet waste tonight I think that's probably a victory of some sort I'm thankful for that as well but commissioner Carmen Williams yes um I will be brief I do want to let staff know that we are greatly greatly appreciative of the work that you do and the strides that you have made in terms of simplifying the information that we receive as well as the public um I'm definitely not as concerned about how many people you have working and what your org chart looks like as I am about the number of cases that you have to review which is beyond our control but we also understand who controls that so thank you for doing what you do with the staff that you do have and I can't tell you enough how much we appreciated having served here a little while if you will um we've seen the changes and we

appreciate it and the simplifying of things um the last meeting was definitely a process it was something that was necessary and I think that through that both the Planning Commission and staff we all have something that we can stand on moving forward uh and I think that it's more advantageous that we better understand how we complicate things than opposed to how you run your office thank you and we appreciate that but anytime you need any information about numbers of cases time frames we're happy to provide that to you just email us um you know reach out to us again Alexander will be providing um an overview of that dashboard coming soon and that should help to help it'll help you be more educated so that when you do get a call from whether it's an elected official or a resident you can answer some questions at this time I we do I do need an emotion to approve the or to recommend to approve the work plan um

to I would entertain a motion at this time so moved second okay I believe that was moved by commissioner Morgan and I'm going to say it was seconded by Vice chair Cameron all those in favor please say aye aye all the posts have the same right motion passage unanimously next item under new business so committee commission appointments here's the situation I was reviewing our rules and procedures recently as the good chair that I am and I noted that we have under our current rules and procedures some committees that we are supposed to staff with Planning Commission members that said the I think three of the Committees well no sorry one of the Committees listed is jccbc and I'm on that two of the Committees listed don't exist anymore and the other two committees are

m

yes Eastern Time okay with that thank you I'll just come over here when for your parking validation great this meeting is adjourned at 8 42 PM Eastern Time